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Messages - nomteticus

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Would have been cool for Kelvin to just appear in the Church. Would have freaked the hell out of Desmond (and probably Sayid too).

Episode 6x16 / Re: Who WASN'T at the church and why?
« on: May 26, 2010, 11:52:09 PM »
So basically Desmond wasn't Cupid, he was the Grim Reaper!
And Eloise was actually negotiating with Death  :), for the first time being in an inferior position to Desmond.

Episode 6x16 / Re: Ajira Plane
« on: May 26, 2010, 11:36:14 PM »
Richard's explanation would be pretty fun:
Policeman: date of birth?
Richard: 1815
Policeman: wha'?
On a more serious note, it would indeed be strange to explain all that. Sawyer and Claire would be the proof that the O6 story is a lie, Kate would certainly go to jail as the baby deal is off, Miles would probably dissapear in his shady world with the Diamonds, Lapidus would just go on with his life and Richard would probably end up being deported to somewhere like an illegal immigrant.

Episode 6x16 / Re: So it's left to our imagination
« on: May 26, 2010, 11:29:00 PM »
It's actually quite sad that nobody cared for the 815 children that were with Cindy. They were children, for Christ's sake! Hero-Jack didn't give a s**t about them when he staged the coup planned by Sawyer, ditching them and leaving them to be bombed by Widmore. Flocke of all people was nicer to the kids then all our "beloved" losties. How can you not care if children live or die and still be the good guy?

Episode 6x16 / Re: Dan, Penny and Lipidas...???
« on: May 26, 2010, 11:24:03 PM »
Jack needed "David" in the Alt-world to resolve his father issues, so he obviously needed to "make up" a mother for him. Kate would have been too young, and since they apparently love eachother it wouldn't have worked, since it would have woke them up too soon. So his mind created this convenient storyline where Juliet is the mother, but not his wife. If we are to believe that the ALT started with LAX, the divorce is actually a (fake) memory and not what Jack actually experiences. There is no reason for Juliet to have David, but since the world is collectively created, she somehow subconsciously conceeded to the "David" subplot as long as she and Jack weren't together.. Or at least that's what I think.

Episode 6x16 / Re: Did Locke have to die?
« on: May 26, 2010, 11:11:20 PM »
The writer's biggest failiure (and I actually loved "The  End") was selling MIB as the villain. His intentions were and have always been to get off the island. He did some bad things (not worse than Ben or Sayid if you think about it) as he was trapped with a power he didn't want (smokeyness and immortality).

He wouldn't spread evil in the other world, he had no secret agenda. It's obvious that he thought the island didn't mean anything when he told Jack 'you died for nothing'. Actually, that was the most powerful line in the whole finale, and while the writers and the director were telling us that he is wrong, he may have been at least partially right. I think not killing MIB I think would have made no difference. He had already lost his Smokey powers and I'm not so sure that he would have regained them, since there was another leader who could make his own rules. Jack could have used that time to recork but he wanted to kill MIB just like he wanted to kill Locke in season 3 when the gun didn't go off.

So what did hapen to the smoke monster after Jacob's brother finally passed away? Did he dissapear? Did he return to the cave? If so, why didn't he possess Jack? Does he still exist in latent form? What was he anyway? We'll never know.

I don't want to sound like a European douche, but why does the US audience need a villain-incarnate? Can't the villain just be a concept (like war, starvation, tyrrany), and not a person? They did a good job to show us the characters struggling with their own demons, did we literally have to see a fight between Jack and MIB (btw did anyone doubt the outcome of the fight) ? Flashback to Sawyer/TomFriendly shootout, Ben/Jack fistfight, Keamy/Others+Losties showdown, Dharma/TimeTravellers conflict. The fight at the cliffs and MIB's (pointless) death is the only part of the finale that I absolutely loathed.

Episode 6x16 / Re: Who created the Alt timeline/ meeting place?
« on: May 26, 2010, 10:47:36 PM »
I'm still unclear as to some characters being real or fake in the Alt/Purgatory, such as Nadia, Helen, Miles and his father, Aaron, and also why Penny goes with the people in the Church although not having anything to do with the island while Nadia and Helen are left behind.

Episode 6x16 / Life after Death
« on: May 26, 2010, 09:30:09 PM »
I just saw the finale. I have a few things that are not clear to me, maybe we can all create a reality that makes sense (just like our losties tried to do with the ALT world).

So LOST, while being a pluri-mythological creation (just watch all the symbols on the church window), has this one axiom: There is Life after Death, and it has at least two levels - purgatory and enlightment.

All characters experience some sort of consciousness after death. We all knew that because Miles could apparently "hear the dead" and Hurley (and even Ben or MIB) could speak to them. This consciousness expresses itself differently. We know of at least two ways:

I Whispers - people who died on the island, did bad things and didn't leave anyone caring for them turn into whispers, and their punishment is to (eternally?) guide the living who are on the island.

II ALT Worlds - if a larger number of people share the same period as a reference point to the peak of their lives, by meaning a lot to eachother they can create their own purgatory/fake-paradise where their dreams can come true (find their loved ones, be successful/lucky in life, have the child they never had, etc.). Apparently it doesn't matter as much if you were good or bad, as long as you struggle for redemption (see Ben)

The world we see after the "LAX" episode is one of the millions of Alt Worlds collectively created. In these worlds, although emulating "the golden period" , time doesn't really run in a linear fashion. These worlds contain different types of people:

A. The people who created the world(s):
1) people ready to move on to the next level: all the people at the Church
2) people NOT ready to move on to the next level who know where they are: Ben, Miss Hawking, Daniel (partially), Rose/Bernard(?)
3) people who haven't yet figured out the nature of the world they live in: Charlotte, Ana Lucia, Miles, Dr. Chang, Alex, Rousseau

B. Fake people - now these are people who populate the ALT-worlds without their soul actually being inside them. They are made up by the people at point (A) to maintain a world consistency. They include:
1) random people you see on the street or the people required to run things to maintain the illusion of a real world (doctors, lawyers, engineers, workers, etc.)
2) people who the losties knew but aren't themselves part of this Alt World, they are maybe part of a different Alt World but also appear in this world as triggers for the (A) people: Minkowski, Rose/Bernard(?), Helen, Locke's dad(?), Hurley's mom, Keamy (it doesn't make sense for Keamy to be killed unless he doesn't really exist in this purgatory and he is just used as a device to get Sayid, Sun and Jin on the path to enlightment). They are like NPC's (Non playing characters) in a computer game, helping the actual characters to move on.

This theory would explain why some people get enlightened (as in "find their constant") and some do not (the B people who are really just triggers) and also some would still choose to stay even though they are enlightened. Ben for example couldn't leave because he still had to enlighten Alex and Rousseau that they are really dead (mostly because of him). It was his duty and he sticked to it. Daniel didn't leave because he wasn't fully enlightened and because he still needed to patch things up with Charlotte and his parents before moving on.

Richard, Jacob and MIB are not in the ALT because they are in different ALT's. Richard is probably with his wife somewhere in Tenerife, MIB is probably with his real mother and Jacob probably with the crazy mother (speculation of course).

The people who the Losties know prior to LAX are not their constants and cannot enlighten one another. So Juliet isn't Jack's constant, Miles isn't Sawyer's, etc.

So when the Church people leave, this made-up world still exists, up until the people I described at A2 and A3 also move on. This would also explain why some people can die (Omar, Keamy) and never be enlightened (they don't really exist here).

If this is correct, there are still some questions:

1) Are Rose and Bernard A2's or B2's? I mean they seem enlightened (Rose helps John, Bernard helps Jack) but they don't move on, so either they have unresolved business (unlikely), or they are not really in that world (since they spent most of their time on the island and with each other, they probably have a different Alt-World that only the two of them created).

2) Why would Juliet dream up a world where she has a son with Jack if she really loves Sawyer? Now we may answer this question thinking that David is more Jack's creation than Juliet's. If the Alt world actually begins in 2004, Jack and Juliet are already divorced, so there is no actual romance involved.

3) Is Nadia actually a Non-Playing-Character (B2) ? Because I would not imagine Sayid wouldn't go enlighten her after being enlightened by Shannon, unless she is just a part of the setting and her soul is not really in the AltWorld. But where would her soul be? She wasn't on the island, so she is not part of the collective creation, but wouldn't she be in a world with Sayid, since he seems to be the only person she ever cared about? So where exactly is Nadia's soul?

4) Penny is part of the Church team even though she is only connected through Desmond. Why is she the exception? Sayid didn't get Nadia and Locke didn't get Helen because they weren't real. But why is Penny real and those others are not?

Episode 6x14 / Re: Time of Jacob & MIB's birth
« on: May 13, 2010, 08:09:02 PM »
That's what bugged me in the first place. I'm not sure they showed us the remains of the ship, because that would have helped (there must be some boat-expert on these boards  :) )

Episode 6x14 / Re: What If....
« on: May 13, 2010, 08:07:05 PM »
I think the guys that do the ODI podcast (Vozzek, Karen and that other guy) are constantly producing these types of theories. They tend post their podcast late (monday or tuesday), but it's (IMO) the best fan podcast, even if they overanalyze everything.

edit: This theory is also in Vozzek's recap:

Episode 6x14 / Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« on: May 13, 2010, 01:59:40 PM »
So basically she was shaving her legs because she was preparing to leave the godly state and step into the land of the dead???

Episode 6x14 / Re: THE WINE!!!
« on: May 13, 2010, 01:53:19 PM »
Maybe the wine is a metaphor for all the 'whine' going on in the fangroups right now (don't take it as an attack, I am one of the whiners).

Episode 6x14 / Re: Time of Jacob & MIB's birth
« on: May 13, 2010, 01:52:16 PM »
If this happened in 23AD, do you realise Jesus was supposedly alive when Jacob and MIB were born?

Episode 6x14 / Re: Anyone else starting to get nervous
« on: May 13, 2010, 01:49:28 PM »
I'm not sure this question belongs here, but did we actually see Jacob's mother shaving her legs??? And if so, why? I'm not sure it was too popular at the time (23 AD) and it's not like she had a social group to worry about.

Episode 6x14 / Re: so who is the daddy ?
« on: May 13, 2010, 01:31:52 PM »

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