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Episode 6x14 / Re: you wanted answers ? you got answers !
« on: May 12, 2010, 01:19:27 PM »
I say there werr way to many questions un answered. Still don't understand .....
what the light was really about
What does the light do?
How did the light turn him into the MIB?
Who was the lady who raised them? What made her special?
When did the rules get put in place?
Why did Jacob start bringing people to the island?
No idea how a wheel next to water and a light gets people of the island.

*The light is the source of all life...and death and rebirth
*Apparently it is the spark that let's life exist, which is one thing science has not figured out yet.
*Everyone has a piece of this light in them.  If you get greedy with it, it consumes/destroys you and too much greed can destroy it also, both on the island and everywhere.
*'Mother' was just a woman who crashed on the island and became the protector, just one in a line.
*The rules have been in place 'ab aeterno', from the beginning of time.
*Jacob started bringing people to the island because he never wanted to be the protector and was searching for a suitable replacement.

*Uh, idea how the wheel works either...or who eventually built it.  While we're at it, how was Jacob able to come and go seemingly at will?  This episode, to me, was a first.  It was filled with answers, yet I didn't like it at all!  Very cheesy!

Yes, Jacob never wanted the job and was tricked into taken it by his "Mother" who said Thank You to her killer. It seems as if no one wants to do this and just needs to find a sucker to take the role. The bet between Jacob and MiB is, Jacob wants to prove a sucker is born every minute. lol

Sort of reminds you of the whole situation with the Swan Station, doesn't it?

Episode 6x13 / Re: So is no one leaving the island?
« on: May 05, 2010, 11:08:48 AM »
Maybe MIB "leaves" by killing all the candidates?

I don't know how he actually leaves, but I think he can't leave until he wins "the game, and the game doesn't end until all the people (the candidates) that could possible replace his opponent (Jacob) are dead.  "The game," in my opinion, being a battle between good and evil for the fate of mankind.

Episode 6x07 / Re: MIB's Mommy
« on: March 18, 2010, 11:06:56 PM »
I haven't really been sure as to whether or not MIB has been telling the truth, and to be quite honest, I don't think he has been 100% honest with anyone so far. BUT, for some reason, when he and Kate were alone on the beach, I got the feeling that was real. I think the key here is that he said he had a mother just like everyone else.

I buy this and Lockes Mom was crazy.  I am also wondering now if he couldn't kill Jacob is because he is related to him

I thought this was a reference to Jacob in the Bible.  If I remember the story right, Jacob was making stew and his brother came home and was starving, and Jacob offered him some stew in return for his brother's birthright.  His brother agreed (he must have been really really hungry) and much drama ensued afterwards.  Anyway, I thought the whole "want some fish" exchange was a reference to that.

Episode 6x04 / Re: Who is number 108?
« on: February 25, 2010, 09:04:47 AM »
I am not saying that there is no way no one else is going to end up on the island. Anything can happen on this show for sure. Also Widmore has to be part of the end game in some form.

But the turning of the compass and the whole lighthouse scene had nothing to do with calling some one to the island or helping someone find the island. That I am sure of because that is what they told us on the show.

Yeah, I think Jacob was pretty clear about that.  Someone's coming but they will find their own way there, and that wasn't really the purpose of Jack and Hurley going to the lighthouse.  Hard to "interpret" that when he flat out said it.

Still wondering, though, why a person listed at such a critical number, the sum of all THE Numbers, would be crossed out.

Episode 6x04 / Re: Who is number 108?
« on: February 24, 2010, 02:50:19 PM »
231 - Amistad.  Wasn't there a movie of that name about a slave ship?  Maybe a reference to the Black Rock.

Episode 6x01 / Re: Man in black = Smokie
« on: February 03, 2010, 01:36:10 PM »
When MIB talks about going home, it's reminiscent of fallen angels (pick your show) talking about getting back up to Heaven.

Episode 5x13 / Re: Bram and Ilana’s Mystery Team
« on: April 16, 2009, 10:00:49 PM »
I don't have the episode saved, but are you sure that Illana said "Do you know what lies in the shadow of THE statue?"

I ask because after looking at it several times, when Bram asks the question to Miles he definitely says "Do you know what lies in the shadow of A statue?"

"A," as in statues in general, not "THE" as in specifically the four toed statue.

May not be significant, or just a continuity error, but that's what he says.

Community Lounge / Re: Any Brights out there?
« on: May 07, 2008, 12:11:34 AM »
Hey guys.  Wow, this has taken a little bit of a turn since I last checked in.  Which, by the way, I haven't done lately because every relative in my family has an anniversary/birthday/reunion between Feb 1st and last week.  Lots of work, lots of travelling.    So, here's my laundry list of comments:

First off, science is great.  Love me some science.  But, while the Bible hits you with the unified theory, we can't really come up with one for the behavior of the universe, can we?  Particles vs. waves, the stuff that explains the macro doesn't work for the micro and vice versa... Chew on that for a while.  I do concur that once science solves something, it gets repeatable results.  But, check out the fundamental "laws" of the Bible.  Know a lot of happy adulterers, or murderers that have lived fine and fruitful lives?   

I'm not espousing either one at the exclusion of the other, but for me it's like politics....each side seems to want us to believe that they are absolutely right when the answer most probably lies square in the middle.

Second, I used to date a Catholic girl, and I've gone to some Catholic services.  Yeah, I know...this does not make me an expert, but....Anyone who says guilt is not a sizeable component of the religion is, in my opinion, seriously deluded.  On the other hand, they're not really handing out any "Get Out of Guilt Free" at the local Baptist Churches here either.  It's forgiven, but it sure isn't forgotten.

While I'm on it, let me tell you what messed me up the most at Mass.  We Methodist say Amen, and we're done.  You Catholics, you just keep right on going.  I'm on my knees, I'm off my knees...I was totally lost.

Third, I thought I was well-read and after reading some of Stagger's stuff I realize that I may very well be functionally illiterate.

Fourth and finally, and I know this is setting me up for some criticism.....some of the things that Catholics do does smack a little bit of idolotry.  I don't mean that in an insulting way.  I'm from the South.  I don't know a lot of Catholics and I don't know a lot about the Catholic religion.  I readily admit my ignorance.  But, there is a lot of symbolism in the Catholic Church and the confessions and the rosary and the crossing yourself and so forth sound very much Old Testament to me.  And, if you take the "graven images" thing seriously, it would be easy to have issues with Catholicism.  I'm not sure but I think that's the Protestant view.  As far as that is concerned, I'm just not really big on killing people over religion and hauling things out of churches and burning them in the streets, so I don't really appreciate their point of view very much, and I don't think how you worship is near as important as who you worship and why you worship.

I AM NOT TRYING TO INSULT ANYONE!  I'm just saying how it looks to someone raised a Methodist.  It's very, very different.  And, that's why one of the things that JB said is very important:  No church or religion should be put up as representative of Christianity, because as he said, Christianity is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, not a church.

I grew up Methodist and I go to a Baptist Church now, so any Catholics who would like to chime in about female ministers or TV evangelists or speaking in tongues can feel free to comment.  Fair is fair.   




Community Lounge / Re: Any Brights out there?
« on: April 07, 2008, 10:37:36 PM »
I think the idea of a God creating the entire universe is just crazy. Particularly when the universe can be traced back through science and it certainly wasn't created in 7 days (or 6 or whatever the Bible claims).

So, the creation of the Universe can be traced back through Science more accurately than through the Bible?

On March 6,2008, the New York Times reported that geologists from the University of New Mexico, in a study backed by the National Science Administration, had found evidence indicating that the Grand Canyon was 11,000 years older than previously thought, making it 17,000 years old instead of 6,000 years old.

So, for years Science underestimated the age of one of America's greatest landmarks by what I think calculates out to be 65%.  It was put into Science books and History Books and taught in schools, and it was wrong.

Personally, I'm not willing to use something with a 65% error over 17,000 years to try and accurately predict the age of something that is supposedly 14 billion years old.  

But that's just me.

I'll have to check out the Chuck Norris angle, though.  I've heard that the Hebrew words for "Great Flood" and "Roundhouse Kick" are very close.......

Community Lounge / Re: Any Brights out there?
« on: March 24, 2008, 11:52:12 AM »
Stagger, I agree that Einstein and Hawking probably meant a noninterventionist God, at the very least, when using the phrases you mentioned. Tillich, God is the Ground of all Being, had similar thoughts.

I, too, rather think both Huxleys had their moments.

PL, welcome. Intelligent Design implies an interventionist God, of which both Stagger and are disbelieving. Or were you looking to start a new topic?

The concept of "free will" would sort of point towards a non-interventionist God.  I mean, He didn't stop Adam from eating the apple.  He could have not put the tree there in the first place.  I don't really think God is "meddling" in everything that we do, but I don't think he is totally hands off either.  I think that there have been times when mankind as a whole was WAY off, and He had to step in and do a wholesale course correction (Christ, Ten Commandments, Flood, etc) but in general I believe that we run our own lives and that history takes it's own course.

This may not be completely applicable to this comment, but in one of his sermons our minister said that prayer wasn't asking God to do stuff for you, it was asking him to help you as you worked on things yourself.  I really believe that's the way it happens.  God is not going to take an alcoholic and magically turn him sober, but he is going to help him have the strength to make it through the process.

I think God provides you with a path to follow (the path to Heaven, if you will), and He will help you to follow that path if you so choose, but He won't force you onto it.  You can live your life on Earth the way you want, and maybe it will be bad or maybe it will be good.  If that's the way it is with an individual, then extrapolate that out to billions of individuals all having the same choice and on a macro level you could say that things happen in the world on a daily basis of their own accord and are not micro-managed by God, even though He could if he wanted to.


Community Lounge / Re: Any Brights out there?
« on: March 20, 2008, 01:02:48 PM »
While I am on a roll and putting up one post right after another, I want to say that I'm glad the person that started this thread and basically got it hijacked is still around and seems to be enjoying it.  I hope this still seems like a discussion of different viewpoints and not a Bible study.  I really am trying to pass on the benefits of having not known what I believe for many years and being alienated from religion in general.  I understand why people would believe different things, not believe in any kind of higher power at all, or think that there's no way that that we can ever really know one way or the other.  I don't have a lot of facts and science to sway people one way or the other.  I just have always had a feeling that there is a God and have come to the conclusion that He's the Bible is His story.  I most certainly have been influenced by my parents as far as what religion I chose, but I think I was lucky to have been influenced towards the one I would have found anyway.   If I did not have the feeling that there is a God, I could very easily fall into any of several camps and probably live a pretty good life following their philosophy.  And, my main goal in joining discussions like this is not to convert anyone, because I think people are smart and will figure it out by themselves eventually, but to keep them from getting caught up in all the smoke and mirrors of religion and understand what it really means to be a Christian, which is trying to live a more Christ-like life, at least as I understand it, because I still don't claim to be an expert.  That's where I'm coming from.

Community Lounge / Re: Any Brights out there?
« on: March 20, 2008, 12:33:28 PM »
And of course you could make the same wager with Allah, Jehovah, Zeus, and on and on.

Not to mention that some Christian denominations think that some or all of the others are doomed.

Like I said, a Christian can understand other religions and philosophies and appreciate that they help others to lead a good life, but once you put up a different Messiah or a different path to Heaven, then their beliefs become invalid.

The important points to remember are that a true Christian may think you are going to Hell but:

(a) they don't know for sure because they aren't God

(b)  they hope that you don't.

Community Lounge / Re: Any Brights out there?
« on: March 20, 2008, 12:28:39 PM »
Is this a cult post? :-\

see Pascal's hyperlink...
[/url] Pascal’s Wager seeks to justify Christian faith by considering the various possible consequences of belief and disbelief in the God of Christianity. If we believe in the Christian God, the argument runs, then if he exists then we will receive an infinitely great reward in heaven while if he does not then we will have lost little or nothing. If we do not believe in the Christian God, the argument continues, then if he exists then we will receive an infinitely great punishment in hell while if he does not then we will have gained little or nothing. The possible outcomes of belief in the Christian God, then, are on balance better than the possible outcomes of disbelief in the Christian God. It is better to either receive an infinitely great reward in heaven or lose little or nothing than it is to either receive an infinitely great punishment in hell or gain little or nothing.[/url]

I'm cynical enough to believe that any discussion of religion can develop into a discussion of cults.  A lot of times the line is very, very thin, and so many parallels can be drawn between what we consider to be cults and what we consider to be valid religions.

Pascal has a point and I appreciate the logic of it, but hopefully the reason a person chooses to be a Christian is not that it's a better long term bet than not being a Christian. 

Cool reference, though.

Community Lounge / Re: Any Brights out there?
« on: March 20, 2008, 12:20:38 PM »
but if we are right and you are wrong then it doesn't end well for you. we don't want that to happen and thats why we argue with non-Christians so much... its because we want as many ppl to go to heaven as possible


Community Lounge / Re: Any Brights out there?
« on: March 20, 2008, 12:17:27 PM »
so if god changed his mind right after you died and said, ya know what I think everyone can go to heaven.....

....then I have lost absolutely nothing and I'm glad you're going with me.  I mean, seriously, what did I give up? I'm not bound in servitude here.  No one is forcing me to go to church on Sunday, or standing over me with a cattle prod making me read the Bible.  I have not been guilted into trying to be a good person.  I HONESTLY believe it's a better way of life.

If I got to the Pearly Gates, after having tried to live a more Christ-like life....and just to be clear, if you met me, you would see that I am struggling with it so don't think I'm being all holier-than-thou here......and found out that all of a sudden God had decided to give everyone who had foresaken him a free pass, then I'd be okay with it.  I really don't think I've given up anything, so I have nothing to be resentful about.  A prime example:  even if the Bible didn't tell me that adultery is a sin, I'd still feel guilty if I cheated on my wife, so what did I lose?

Now, I don't know if the Bible specifically says this, but I have been told that those who follow Jesus Christ throughout their lives and follow Him most diligently will have more rewards in Heaven.  This confuses me because I thought when we got to Heaven we would all be happy and want for nothing, and if I am happy and want for nothing then would having more actually mean anything to me, and if not then why does it matter who has more?

I have met a lot of people who used their faithfulness to fuel a superiority complex. I have also found that there are PLENTY of Christians who are resentful over the sacrifices they feel they have made to be a good Christian.  They feel like they have put in a lot of work and it's not fair if someone comes in at the last minute and gets the same reward as they do.

I totally get that.  I totally understand why they feel that way.  But, I'm pretty sure that it's not how God wants them to feel, and here's why:

In the Bible you have the story of The Prodigal Son.  We've all heard about it.  The father splits up his farm between the two sons, one stays home and runs his share and makes it bigger and the other one sells his share and goes off and squanders the money.  When the Prodigal Son returns home, instead of being mad his father welcomes him with open arms and they throw him a party and kill the biggest cow they have and roast it.  The son that stayed home, of course, is mad because he stayed home and did the right thing and his brother went off like an idiot and blew all his cash, but when his brother got home he was welcomed back like nothing had ever happened.  The son that stayed home felt really cheated.  When he told his father about this, his father said:

" 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.' "  Luke 15:31-32

Basically, what he's saying is that he recognized that the son that stayed home did the right thing and he appreciates it, and that in return the stay-at-home was definitely going to get some additional rewards, but even though the Prodigal Son had made a bad choice, they had to be happy that the "lost" brother had found his way back to the right path.

As with all the father-son stories in the Bible, you extrapolate them out to a Holy Father-Christian relationship.  It's great if you stay on the right path your whole life, but if you stray then you will be welcomed back, right up until the end.  Once again, it's right there in black and white, but some people choose to ignore it.

I guess that as far as I'm concerned it's not a one way street.  God is helping me out with some stuff that I'm not sure I could handle on my own. So far it's been a fair trade for me, so I don't believe that I would be pissed off if God decided to give someone a pass at the last minute.    


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