Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x13 => Topic started by: taki1379 on April 16, 2009, 12:03:37 AM

Title: the numbers
Post by: taki1379 on April 16, 2009, 12:03:37 AM
Could it possibly be that Hurley first heard the numbers at the point we saw tonight (the serial number for the hatch)?  Could that really be all they are and Hurley himself makes them out to be far more on his own? I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission. Possibly he recorded that during the time skips??? i'm reaching....help
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Gutterball94 on April 16, 2009, 12:06:33 AM
Could it possibly be that Hurley first heard the numbers at the point we saw tonight (the serial number for the hatch)?  Could that really be all they are and Hurley himself makes them out to be far more on his own? I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission. Possibly he recorded that during the time skips??? i'm reaching....help

This is where it gets confusing so bear with me. He couldn't have heard the numbers for the first time in 1977 because it hadn't happened for him yet. That is why he knew 42 was coming. We know that he heard them from Leonard. Now where Leonard got them is any one's guess
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: taki1379 on April 16, 2009, 12:08:31 AM
i need a chart to consult about these things.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Schmokey on April 16, 2009, 12:09:29 AM
I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission.

I hadn't heard that before, but very interesting idea!  It's too late though to try to wrap my head around it now though.  (I'm an accountant and it's April 15th and I've had a hectic day --make that weeks.)  I'm fried.  Guess I should go to be and come back to the posts tomorrow.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Gutterball94 on April 16, 2009, 12:09:44 AM
i need a chart to consult about these things.

I was thinking more along the lines of a therapist for myself...
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Maxor127 on April 16, 2009, 12:10:13 AM
Leonard got them from Sam Toomey, who heard them while monitoring transmissions in the Pacific.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: taki1379 on April 16, 2009, 12:11:23 AM
I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission.

I hadn't heard that before, but very interesting idea!  It's too late though to try to wrap my head around it now though.  (I'm an accountant and it's April 15th and I've had a hectic day --make that weeks.)  I'm fried.  Guess I should go to be and come back to the posts tomorrow.
somewhere i heard a clip of the transmission and it sounded like hurley....i think we had a posting on here. I'll try to locate it for you
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: taki1379 on April 16, 2009, 12:14:59 AM
Okay...so hurley gets them from Leonard while in the institution, he plays the lottery with them, is stranded on the island, sees them on and in the hatch, leaves the island, is transported back in time and sends out a transmission with them around or before the time that the serial number is placed on the hatch, that transmission plays and Sam Toomey hears it, tells leonard and the cycle completes.
check yes no or maybe
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Gutterball94 on April 16, 2009, 12:16:06 AM
I'll check the box that reads: Possibly, but I don't have the degree I need to understand the subject material.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BurkRoyer on April 16, 2009, 12:16:20 AM
Okay...so hurley gets them from Leonard while in the institution, he plays the lottery with them, is stranded on the island, sees them on and in the hatch, leaves the island, is transported back in time and sends out a transmission with them around or before the time that the serial number is placed on the hatch, that transmission plays and Sam Toomey hears it, tells leonard and the cycle completes.
check yes no or maybe

YES - check
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Bostonlost on April 16, 2009, 12:17:17 AM
Could it possibly be that Hurley first heard the numbers at the point we saw tonight (the serial number for the hatch)?  Could that really be all they are and Hurley himself makes them out to be far more on his own? I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission. Possibly he recorded that during the time skips??? i'm reaching....help

This is where it gets confusing so bear with me. He couldn't have heard the numbers for the first time in 1977 because it hadn't happened for him yet. That is why he knew 42 was coming. We know that he heard them from Leonard. Now where Leonard got them is any one's guess

He can not do this because that would be a paradox
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Gutterball94 on April 16, 2009, 12:18:27 AM
Okay...so hurley gets them from Leonard while in the institution, he plays the lottery with them, is stranded on the island, sees them on and in the hatch, leaves the island, is transported back in time and sends out a transmission with them around or before the time that the serial number is placed on the hatch, that transmission plays and Sam Toomey hears it, tells leonard and the cycle completes.
check yes no or maybe

Actually now that I read that for the 7th time it makes sense (7th times the charm).
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: LouE68 on April 16, 2009, 12:22:05 AM
The numbers were a nice touch this episode....loved it...
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: taki1379 on April 16, 2009, 12:35:29 AM
overall i thought this was a great episode.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: ButtercupSaiyan on April 16, 2009, 12:43:44 AM
Could it possibly be that Hurley first heard the numbers at the point we saw tonight (the serial number for the hatch)?  Could that really be all they are and Hurley himself makes them out to be far more on his own? I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission. Possibly he recorded that during the time skips??? i'm reaching....help

This is where it gets confusing so bear with me. He couldn't have heard the numbers for the first time in 1977 because it hadn't happened for him yet. That is why he knew 42 was coming. We know that he heard them from Leonard. Now where Leonard got them is any one's guess

He can not do this because that would be a paradox

Untrue.  Desmond already created such a paradox by telling Daniel about the principle of time travel, which Daniel then used to tell Desmond about time travel and so on and nothing happened.

And don't give me "it's because you're special" stuff.  Lost has been very good at showing that no paradoxes are caused... even in situations that should cause them.  Desmond is not the exception, the island is.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: DaveJohnson on April 16, 2009, 09:16:19 AM
He can not do this because that would be a paradox

Untrue.  Desmond already created such a paradox by telling Daniel about the principle of time travel, which Daniel then used to tell Desmond about time travel and so on and nothing happened.

And don't give me "it's because you're special" stuff.  Lost has been very good at showing that no paradoxes are caused... even in situations that should cause them.  Desmond is not the exception, the island is.
This was an odd moment, because Daniel 'passed on' information to Desmond that he (Desmond) did not previously have. I found it interesting that he woke up and 'remembered' the event suddenly.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 16, 2009, 09:35:56 AM
All Desmond told Daniel back then was what frequency to set his "device" to and what speed to make it ocillate at. He did not tell him about the principles of time travel; Dan was theorizing about that for what looked to me like a long time before Desmond came to visit him at Oxford.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: SQUIRT199 on April 16, 2009, 10:44:32 AM
Could it possibly be that Hurley first heard the numbers at the point we saw tonight (the serial number for the hatch)?  Could that really be all they are and Hurley himself makes them out to be far more on his own? I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission. Possibly he recorded that during the time skips??? i'm reaching....help

This is where it gets confusing so bear with me. He couldn't have heard the numbers for the first time in 1977 because it hadn't happened for him yet. That is why he knew 42 was coming. We know that he heard them from Leonard. Now where Leonard got them is any one's guess

I dont understand it didnt happen yet so that is how he knows?

Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: opgelost on April 16, 2009, 11:01:22 AM
All Desmond told Daniel back then was what frequency to set his "device" to and what speed to make it ocillate at. He did not tell him about the principles of time travel; Dan was theorizing about that for what looked to me like a long time before Desmond came to visit him at Oxford.

The paradox was that Daniel in the future send Des to Daniel in the past to tell him how to use his machine and than he noted that numbers in his diary. The numbers came from himself in the future. Daniel said that it was a paradox and therefor he thought it was a joke
from one of his students. 
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: SQUIRT199 on April 16, 2009, 11:04:48 AM
Could it possibly be that Hurley first heard the numbers at the point we saw tonight (the serial number for the hatch)?  Could that really be all they are and Hurley himself makes them out to be far more on his own? I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission. Possibly he recorded that during the time skips??? i'm reaching....help

This is where it gets confusing so bear with me. He couldn't have heard the numbers for the first time in 1977 because it hadn't happened for him yet. That is why he knew 42 was coming. We know that he heard them from Leonard. Now where Leonard got them is any one's guess

He can not do this because that would be a paradox

Oh no not again,
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: SQUIRT199 on April 16, 2009, 11:06:15 AM
Could it possibly be that Hurley first heard the numbers at the point we saw tonight (the serial number for the hatch)?  Could that really be all they are and Hurley himself makes them out to be far more on his own? I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission. Possibly he recorded that during the time skips??? i'm reaching....help

This is where it gets confusing so bear with me. He couldn't have heard the numbers for the first time in 1977 because it hadn't happened for him yet. That is why he knew 42 was coming. We know that he heard them from Leonard. Now where Leonard got them is any one's guess

He can not do this because that would be a paradox

I would say Miles seeing his younger self in his fathers arms reading a book is a paradox too...... but it happened didnt it?
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Creflo on April 16, 2009, 11:14:48 AM
Quote
He can not do this (record the message having received the info 3rd hand from the same message) because that would be a paradox

Quote
I would say Miles seeing his younger self in his fathers arms reading a book is a paradox too

A paradox is a contradiction, not just an anomaly.  In the case of Hurley and the numbers, it's more of a self-fulfilling prophesy.  Seeing oneself in the past is weird, but neither of these is a paradox because there is no contradiction.  Making a change to history such that the reasons for the original time travel are undone would be a paradox.  Miles killing his infant self, for example, would be paradoxical.


Also, when people start to speculate that seeing, meeting, or touching oneself in the past would somehow create some kind of time freakout, this is based on other sci-fi principles that are not necessarily in play on Lost.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: JBRam on April 16, 2009, 12:55:31 PM
Could it possibly be that Hurley first heard the numbers at the point we saw tonight (the serial number for the hatch)?  Could that really be all they are and Hurley himself makes them out to be far more on his own? I know we discussed that it sounded like him on the transmission. Possibly he recorded that during the time skips??? i'm reaching....help

This is where it gets confusing so bear with me. He couldn't have heard the numbers for the first time in 1977 because it hadn't happened for him yet. That is why he knew 42 was coming. We know that he heard them from Leonard. Now where Leonard got them is any one's guess

He can not do this because that would be a paradox
It would not be a paradox because a loop does not constitute a paradox. If that is what happened, then that is what always happened. 2004 Hurley exists before 1977 Hurley, but whatever 1977 Hurley does will affect the future because Hurley was always in 1977.

What's confusing about that? ;)
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: on the island on April 16, 2009, 01:03:54 PM
It would not be a paradox because a loop does not constitute a paradox. If that is what happened, then that is what always happened. 2004 Hurley exists before 1977 Hurley, but whatever 1977 Hurley does will affect the future because Hurley was always in 1977.

What's confusing about that? ;)

I hate this rationalization.  The fact that we are just supposed to accept this is lame.  But we've been through this. 
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 16, 2009, 04:02:45 PM
Hey, I got an idea, lets talk about the numbers, and not paradoxes. LOL

I posted this somewhere else, but I guess this is just as good a place as any. I'm sort of on the fence about the numbers scene. I, for one, am excited anytime we get an answer to one of our questions. So the numbers being the serial number of the Swan does sort of answer the question of, "What are the numbers for??", and that makes me happy. But then I'm sort of let down by the idea tat they are "just the serial number". That's kind of, uh, stupid.

But it leads me to wonder something else, so I guess it's not all bad. If the number are "just the serial number" of the Swan, then why are they being broadcast in a repeating loop?? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me to do that with just one of the stations.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: lostandfree on April 16, 2009, 04:13:20 PM
Maybe the recording on the loop is actually Radzinsky.  Maybe he made the recording after the purge when they were down in the swan.  His hope was that someone leftover from Dharma would try to find out what happened, come looking for the island, and would understand that the numbers were the numbers on the Swan so they would know where to find Radzinsky and Kelvin, who were perhaps the only Dharma survivors.  It was a clue on where to find them.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BurkRoyer on April 16, 2009, 04:16:52 PM
Hey, I got an idea, lets talk about the numbers, and not paradoxes. LOL

I posted this somewhere else, but I guess this is just as good a place as any. I'm sort of on the fence about the numbers scene. I, for one, am excited anytime we get an answer to one of our questions. So the numbers being the serial number of the Swan does sort of answer the question of, "What are the numbers for??", and that makes me happy. But then I'm sort of let down by the idea tat they are "just the serial number". That's kind of, uh, stupid.

But it leads me to wonder something else, so I guess it's not all bad. If the number are "just the serial number" of the Swan, then why are they being broadcast in a repeating loop?? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me to do that with just one of the stations.

If I remember right there were also other things the numbers appeared on... the vaccines for example... just coincidental?
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 16, 2009, 04:17:21 PM
Its also been stated (not on the show but in extra content) that the numbers represent variables in the Valenzetti equation. So they can't be just a serial number. I'm with you Bob, theres gotta be more to them than that.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: WhatThe on April 16, 2009, 04:57:44 PM
Maybe the recording on the loop is actually Radzinsky.  Maybe he made the recording after the purge when they were down in the swan.  His hope was that someone leftover from Dharma would try to find out what happened, come looking for the island, and would understand that the numbers were the numbers on the Swan so they would know where to find Radzinsky and Kelvin, who were perhaps the only Dharma survivors.  It was a clue on where to find them.

That's actually rather close to how real "ghost numbers" work, so you might be right.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: xrayeck on April 16, 2009, 05:26:25 PM
The Numbers = Pulled randomly in the California lottery in 2003.

DHARMA, Hanso, Valenzetti Equation = One very long con
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 16, 2009, 05:36:10 PM
Maybe the recording on the loop is actually Radzinsky.  Maybe he made the recording after the purge when they were down in the swan.  His hope was that someone leftover from Dharma would try to find out what happened, come looking for the island, and would understand that the numbers were the numbers on the Swan so they would know where to find Radzinsky and Kelvin, who were perhaps the only Dharma survivors.  It was a clue on where to find them.

That is a good point, but why not just record, "This is Radzinsky, I'm at the Swan."
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: WhatThe on April 16, 2009, 05:45:08 PM
Maybe the recording on the loop is actually Radzinsky.  Maybe he made the recording after the purge when they were down in the swan.  His hope was that someone leftover from Dharma would try to find out what happened, come looking for the island, and would understand that the numbers were the numbers on the Swan so they would know where to find Radzinsky and Kelvin, who were perhaps the only Dharma survivors.  It was a clue on where to find them.

That is a good point, but why not just record, "This is Radzinsky, I'm at the Swan."

So that if the wrong "ears" overheard the transmission they wouldn't know what was being conveyed.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 16, 2009, 05:48:54 PM
Only if they knew what the Swan was, or who Radzinsky was.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Novashannon on April 16, 2009, 06:01:49 PM
I think there is still more to the numbers than we have learned.  They have appeared too many other places to be mere coincidence.  On the other hand, it could just be that we notice them more.  It is like, when you buy a new car, all of a sudden you notice that model on the road more often.  Also, when you are pregnant, you notice other pregnant women more. 
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: WhatThe on April 16, 2009, 06:52:49 PM
Only if they knew what the Swan was, or who Radzinsky was.

My assumption would be that others in the world would indeed know. Dharma/Widmore/Ben-Others seem to have a HUGE reach around the globe. The original "ghost numbers" were indeed codes meant to be interpreted by one individual on the planet and nothing but incoherent recitation of numbers to everyone else.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: GUTZandRAGE on April 16, 2009, 07:52:53 PM
Radzinski was paranoid long before the hostiles tried to wipe out his people. Imagine how he would become after he was (quite possibly) the only one left alive... in an island... alone... in a hole in the ground.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: WhatThe on April 16, 2009, 08:26:58 PM
Radzinski was paranoid long before the hostiles tried to wipe out his people. Imagine how he would become after he was (quite possibly) the only one left alive... in an island... alone... in a hole in the ground.

Excellent point...
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: rhythm on April 16, 2009, 09:19:53 PM
Maybe the recording on the loop is actually Radzinsky.  Maybe he made the recording after the purge when they were down in the swan.  His hope was that someone leftover from Dharma would try to find out what happened, come looking for the island, and would understand that the numbers were the numbers on the Swan so they would know where to find Radzinsky and Kelvin, who were perhaps the only Dharma survivors.  It was a clue on where to find them.


Sounds plausible
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: rhythm on April 16, 2009, 09:21:40 PM
Hey, I got an idea, lets talk about the numbers, and not paradoxes. LOL

I posted this somewhere else, but I guess this is just as good a place as any. I'm sort of on the fence about the numbers scene. I, for one, am excited anytime we get an answer to one of our questions. So the numbers being the serial number of the Swan does sort of answer the question of, "What are the numbers for??", and that makes me happy. But then I'm sort of let down by the idea tat they are "just the serial number". That's kind of, uh, stupid.

But it leads me to wonder something else, so I guess it's not all bad. If the number are "just the serial number" of the Swan, then why are they being broadcast in a repeating loop?? Doesn't seem to make much sense to me to do that with just one of the stations.

If I remember right there were also other things the numbers appeared on... the vaccines for example... just coincidental?

Maybe not...probably treatment for radiation exposure.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: lostandfree on April 16, 2009, 09:23:11 PM
Maybe the recording on the loop is actually Radzinsky.  Maybe he made the recording after the purge when they were down in the swan.  His hope was that someone leftover from Dharma would try to find out what happened, come looking for the island, and would understand that the numbers were the numbers on the Swan so they would know where to find Radzinsky and Kelvin, who were perhaps the only Dharma survivors.  It was a clue on where to find them.

That is a good point, but why not just record, "This is Radzinsky, I'm at the Swan."

If he had done that then we wouldn't be able to have this great conversation.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: RM on April 17, 2009, 03:48:47 AM
What would have been truly great would have been if it was Hurley '77 who gave DI the numbers to put on the Swan hatch.  That would have been a complete self-fulfilling prophecy.  He would have thought they were special because they won the lottery, then magical because somebody gave them to him (except the somebody would have been himself originally).

Alas, there's still some DI-related meaning behind the numbers.  We haven't seen any other serial numbers associated with any other station, but the construction guy was reading from a list of numbers, right?

Broadcasting them could be some way for the outside world to know for sure that the Swan station was still up and running.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 17, 2009, 01:33:56 PM
What would have been truly great would have been if it was Hurley '77 who gave DI the numbers to put on the Swan hatch.  That would have been a complete self-fulfilling prophecy.  He would have thought they were special because they won the lottery, then magical because somebody gave them to him (except the somebody would have been himself originally).

Alas, there's still some DI-related meaning behind the numbers.  We haven't seen any other serial numbers associated with any other station, but the construction guy was reading from a list of numbers, right?

Broadcasting them could be some way for the outside world to know for sure that the Swan station was still up and running.


That would have been a Paradox LOL. But why just the swan station?? Why not all of them??
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Novashannon on April 17, 2009, 02:10:07 PM
Maybe everything for each station was marked with the same numbers.  If that were the case, there would be different tracking numbers for things that went to each station.  Everything for Swan station would have those numbers as identifiers.  That way, misplaced equipment could be easily returned.  It is a common organizing strategy.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 17, 2009, 02:11:22 PM
What would have been truly great would have been if it was Hurley '77 who gave DI the numbers to put on the Swan hatch.  That would have been a complete self-fulfilling prophecy.  He would have thought they were special because they won the lottery, then magical because somebody gave them to him (except the somebody would have been himself originally).

Alas, there's still some DI-related meaning behind the numbers.  We haven't seen any other serial numbers associated with any other station, but the construction guy was reading from a list of numbers, right?

Broadcasting them could be some way for the outside world to know for sure that the Swan station was still up and running.


That would have been a Paradox LOL. But why just the swan station?? Why not all of them??
I've been saying from early on that even though there are many Dharma stations on the island... I think The Swan is the most important to our story. Which is why I think they exposed us to that station first.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 17, 2009, 03:18:17 PM
What would have been truly great would have been if it was Hurley '77 who gave DI the numbers to put on the Swan hatch.  That would have been a complete self-fulfilling prophecy.  He would have thought they were special because they won the lottery, then magical because somebody gave them to him (except the somebody would have been himself originally).

Alas, there's still some DI-related meaning behind the numbers.  We haven't seen any other serial numbers associated with any other station, but the construction guy was reading from a list of numbers, right?

Broadcasting them could be some way for the outside world to know for sure that the Swan station was still up and running.


That would have been a Paradox LOL. But why just the swan station?? Why not all of them??
I've been saying from early on that even though there are many Dharma stations on the island... I think The Swan is the most important to our story. Which is why I think they exposed us to that station first.

A giant magnet over time travel/teleportation?? Nah. Oh, I'm sorry, more imprtant to our STORY, yeah, of course. I thought you meant that it was more important to the D.I. But that doesn't help with the logic of only broadcasting the numbers of the swan.

Maybe everything for each station was marked with the same numbers.  If that were the case, there would be different tracking numbers for things that went to each station.  Everything for Swan station would have those numbers as identifiers.  That way, misplaced equipment could be easily returned.  It is a common organizing strategy.

If every station was marked with the same numbers, how would that make the organization easier??
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Novashannon on April 17, 2009, 03:29:14 PM
What would have been truly great would have been if it was Hurley '77 who gave DI the numbers to put on the Swan hatch.  That would have been a complete self-fulfilling prophecy.  He would have thought they were special because they won the lottery, then magical because somebody gave them to him (except the somebody would have been himself originally).

Alas, there's still some DI-related meaning behind the numbers.  We haven't seen any other serial numbers associated with any other station, but the construction guy was reading from a list of numbers, right?

Broadcasting them could be some way for the outside world to know for sure that the Swan station was still up and running.


That would have been a Paradox LOL. But why just the swan station?? Why not all of them??
I've been saying from early on that even though there are many Dharma stations on the island... I think The Swan is the most important to our story. Which is why I think they exposed us to that station first.

A giant magnet over time travel/teleportation?? Nah. Oh, I'm sorry, more imprtant to our STORY, yeah, of course. I thought you meant that it was more important to the D.I. But that doesn't help with the logic of only broadcasting the numbers of the swan.

Maybe everything for each station was marked with the same numbers.  If that were the case, there would be different tracking numbers for things that went to each station.  Everything for Swan station would have those numbers as identifiers.  That way, misplaced equipment could be easily returned.  It is a common organizing strategy.

If every station was marked with the same numbers, how would that make the organization easier??
I did not say every station was marked with the same numbers; I said EACH station.  The stations all had different numberts, but all the things for that station were marked with the same numbers as on the station's hatch.  So everything to do with the Swan station would have certain numbers, which were different that any other station's.  Sorry if I was unclear.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 17, 2009, 03:51:23 PM
I did not say every station was marked with the same numbers; I said EACH station.  The stations all had different numberts, but all the things for that station were marked with the same numbers as on the station's hatch.  So everything to do with the Swan station would have certain numbers, which were different that any other station's.  Sorry if I was unclear.

No, I just read it wrong. Got ya now.

But then why broadcast just the numbers of the Swan though if they are just the serial number?? That's my big question right now.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Des on April 17, 2009, 04:21:19 PM
I liked the idea that it was Radzinsky who put the numbers on the radio transmission. Then if any Dharma crew heard it they'd be like, "Ohhh! THE SWAN!" Never mind that they're all dead.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 17, 2009, 04:27:41 PM
I did not say every station was marked with the same numbers; I said EACH station.  The stations all had different numberts, but all the things for that station were marked with the same numbers as on the station's hatch.  So everything to do with the Swan station would have certain numbers, which were different that any other station's.  Sorry if I was unclear.

No, I just read it wrong. Got ya now.

But then why broadcast just the numbers of the Swan though if they are just the serial number?? That's my big question right now.
I'm totally with ya Bob. The numbers have to be more than just the swan's serial number. And I'm gonna keep comming back to this all the time to prove it... Valenzetti.

And yeah, I meant the swan is most important to our losties and their story. I know you got that, just... you know... clarifying.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 17, 2009, 04:42:11 PM
I did not say every station was marked with the same numbers; I said EACH station.  The stations all had different numberts, but all the things for that station were marked with the same numbers as on the station's hatch.  So everything to do with the Swan station would have certain numbers, which were different that any other station's.  Sorry if I was unclear.

No, I just read it wrong. Got ya now.

But then why broadcast just the numbers of the Swan though if they are just the serial number?? That's my big question right now.
I'm totally with ya Bob. The numbers have to be more than just the swan's serial number. And I'm gonna keep comming back to this all the time to prove it... Valenzetti.

And yeah, I meant the swan is most important to our losties and their story. I know you got that, just... you know... clarifying.

I can't get behind the Valenzetti thing for many reasons, but mainly because it was never an issue on the show. I think someone (probably you Griz) mentioned that the name was said on the show or something, but that hardly counts as far as I'm concerned. Now that the scientists are getting involved, then they might start mentioning it, but until they do, that reasoning just doesn't fly. It just kills me that TPTB are saying that it is canon, because I have a set of friends that will not even come to this site because they think that all of this stuff is spoilers, even though I have told them time after time that it isn't. So if I were to start talking about the Valenzetti equation, they would have no idea what I meant.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: laklost on April 17, 2009, 04:45:34 PM
Enjoy the ride.  If you know about Valenzetti before they mention it, you get to go yippee like Griz and I and many others will.  It's coming.

Brilliant, Griz, you're in my sig line.

The numbers were being broadcast because one of the Valenzetti sums had to be undone.  When the broadcast changed Ann Arbor (or whoever the heck was listening) would know that Dharma's doomsday-avoiding work would be done -- or at least the first stage.

Whoa.  Something just occurred to me.  Ben never knew about the Valenzetti mission because he had gone off with the Others when he was a kid.  Widmore pulled it all off right under his nose. *muttering to myself like Dan and rubbing my forehead like John Nash*
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Des on April 17, 2009, 05:27:31 PM
I don't know what all this Valenzetti stuff is about. I feel like I'm missing out on something.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: toadsage on April 17, 2009, 05:31:27 PM
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Valenzetti_Equation (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Valenzetti_Equation)

heres the lostpedia link on valenzetti des
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: MangoBingo on April 17, 2009, 06:57:07 PM
Leonard got them from Sam Toomey, who heard them while monitoring transmissions in the Pacific.

http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=9046.msg515096#msg515096
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: nomteticus on April 17, 2009, 07:57:45 PM
Well, they better introduce this Valenzetti thing soon, because the Dharma story is running out of screen time. I don't think that season 6 will feature our losties in '77, so now is the time to tell us about the apocalyptic equation.
I dind't play TLE, but read all about it on Lostpedia, and it really seemed like a good story. I really hope they stick with it. I would be really dissapointed if Dharma were just a bunch of scientists without a clear purpose on the island. Now, trying to save the world with math, that would be cool. And Horace is a mathmatician after all...
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: laklost on April 17, 2009, 09:50:40 PM
Well, they better introduce this Valenzetti thing soon, because the Dharma story is running out of screen time. I don't think that season 6 will feature our losties in '77, so now is the time to tell us about the apocalyptic equation.
I dind't play TLE, but read all about it on Lostpedia, and it really seemed like a good story. I really hope they stick with it. I would be really dissapointed if Dharma were just a bunch of scientists without a clear purpose on the island. Now, trying to save the world with math, that would be cool. And Horace is a mathmatician after all...

Trying to save the world with math = Jugdish's job.  :D

This is a great post, Nomteticus!
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 20, 2009, 11:54:09 AM
Wow, I am honored Laklost hehe. First time I've been in a sig.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: jugdish on April 20, 2009, 12:05:45 PM
Well, they better introduce this Valenzetti thing soon, because the Dharma story is running out of screen time. I don't think that season 6 will feature our losties in '77, so now is the time to tell us about the apocalyptic equation.
I dind't play TLE, but read all about it on Lostpedia, and it really seemed like a good story. I really hope they stick with it. I would be really dissapointed if Dharma were just a bunch of scientists without a clear purpose on the island. Now, trying to save the world with math, that would be cool. And Horace is a mathmatician after all...

Trying to save the world with math = Jugdish's job.  :D

This is a great post, Nomteticus!

I'll get on it!!
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Des on April 20, 2009, 12:12:09 PM
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Valenzetti_Equation (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Valenzetti_Equation)

heres the lostpedia link on valenzetti des

Thanks.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BrianIsLost2 on April 21, 2009, 08:52:53 PM
Quote
He can not do this (record the message having received the info 3rd hand from the same message) because that would be a paradox

Quote
I would say Miles seeing his younger self in his fathers arms reading a book is a paradox too

A paradox is a contradiction, not just an anomaly.  In the case of Hurley and the numbers, it's more of a self-fulfilling prophesy.  Seeing oneself in the past is weird, but neither of these is a paradox because there is no contradiction.  Making a change to history such that the reasons for the original time travel are undone would be a paradox.  Miles killing his infant self, for example, would be paradoxical.


Also, when people start to speculate that seeing, meeting, or touching oneself in the past would somehow create some kind of time freakout, this is based on other sci-fi principles that are not necessarily in play on Lost.

Bingo.  Here is a link some of my expanded thoughts on this subject

http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=8971.0

Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BrianIsLost2 on April 21, 2009, 08:54:08 PM
It would not be a paradox because a loop does not constitute a paradox. If that is what happened, then that is what always happened. 2004 Hurley exists before 1977 Hurley, but whatever 1977 Hurley does will affect the future because Hurley was always in 1977.

What's confusing about that? ;)

I hate this rationalization.  The fact that we are just supposed to accept this is lame.  But we've been through this. 

Why is that lame?  This is what the show has spelled out for us several times.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Writers_Strike on April 22, 2009, 08:56:52 AM
Was this the explanation for the origin of the numbers? Are really they nothing more then a serial number on a hatch? After the "Incident" did they need a 10 digit number and just so happen to find them on the door? Or is this all just coincidence that an island with a couple of stations and hatches needs to serialize the doors and this one happens to be the 4,815,162,342 door the stamped?
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: opgelost on April 22, 2009, 09:23:50 AM
The numbers are why the Dharma Initiative is on the island.

From lostpedia/Alvar Hanso:
Eight years later, Alvar appeared in the 1975 DHARMA Orientation Film, introducing the DHARMA Initiative to recruits, and explaining its purpose to the world. The project began due to Alvar discovering the Valenzetti Equation, which had been commissioned by the United Nations in 1962. Its findings predicted the exact amount of time until mankind extinguished itself as a species. Hanso built research facilities on an island to research and attempt to modify the equation's results (thereby changing the date of the "end of the world").

Lostpedia/Valenzetti equation:
According to the 1975 orientation film in the Sri Lanka Video, the Valenzetti Equation "predicts the exact number of years and months until humanity extinguishes itself." During the video, Alvar Hanso also states that the radio transmitter on the Island, will "broadcast the core numerical values of the Valenzetti Equation." The numbers, 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42, are explained in the Sri Lanka Video, as the numerical values to the core environmental and human factors of the Valenzetti Equation. Alvar Hanso also states in the video that the purpose of the DHARMA Initiative is to change the numerical values of any one of the core factors in the equation in order to give humanity a chance to survive by, effectively, changing doomsday.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 22, 2009, 09:43:06 AM
The numbers are why the Dharma Initiative is on the island.

From lostpedia/Alvar Hanso:
Eight years later, Alvar appeared in the 1975 DHARMA Orientation Film, introducing the DHARMA Initiative to recruits, and explaining its purpose to the world. The project began due to Alvar discovering the Valenzetti Equation, which had been commissioned by the United Nations in 1962. Its findings predicted the exact amount of time until mankind extinguished itself as a species. Hanso built research facilities on an island to research and attempt to modify the equation's results (thereby changing the date of the "end of the world").

Lostpedia/Valenzetti equation:
According to the 1975 orientation film in the Sri Lanka Video, the Valenzetti Equation "predicts the exact number of years and months until humanity extinguishes itself." During the video, Alvar Hanso also states that the radio transmitter on the Island, will "broadcast the core numerical values of the Valenzetti Equation." The numbers, 4, 8, 15, 16, 23 and 42, are explained in the Sri Lanka Video, as the numerical values to the core environmental and human factors of the Valenzetti Equation. Alvar Hanso also states in the video that the purpose of the DHARMA Initiative is to change the numerical values of any one of the core factors in the equation in order to give humanity a chance to survive by, effectively, changing doomsday.
Thank you!
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 22, 2009, 12:17:15 PM
I don't know what all this Valenzetti stuff is about. I feel like I'm missing out on something.

EXACTLY MY POINT!!!
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Novashannon on April 22, 2009, 01:30:17 PM
Quote*It would not be a paradox because a loop does not constitute a paradox. If that is what happened, then that is what always happened. 2004 Hurley exists before 1977 Hurley, but whatever 1977 Hurley does will affect the future because Hurley was always in 1977.
*endquote

Just because it is a loop does not change the fact that it is, by definition, a paradox.  I agree that it already happend and so will happen.  Still, a paradox.

As for the Valenzetti Equation...nobody told me there would be math involved! ??? :o
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: opgelost on April 22, 2009, 02:05:45 PM
You want math?
http://www.marianotomatis.it/index.php?id=blog&section=autoreferenza&url=20071224

I don't know what all this Valenzetti stuff is about. I feel like I'm missing out on something.

EXACTLY MY POINT!!!

I don't understand it either, but that's where the numbers come from.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Novashannon on April 22, 2009, 02:08:12 PM
No!  No math!  *backing up in a panic holding a cross out in front of self.  I'm a language person, you do the math! 
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: opgelost on April 22, 2009, 02:10:59 PM
lol, I don't get it either. trying to understand it, but way to difficult for me.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 22, 2009, 02:40:33 PM
You want math?
http://www.marianotomatis.it/index.php?id=blog&section=autoreferenza&url=20071224

I don't know what all this Valenzetti stuff is about. I feel like I'm missing out on something.

EXACTLY MY POINT!!!

I don't understand it either, but that's where the numbers come from.

No, I'm talking about the Valenzetti equation nonsense. I am willing to accept that the numbers came from the Serial Number stamped onto hatch, I'm not happy about it, but willing to accept it. What I got so excited about there was that I was saying that some people avoid any information about LOST that isn't on the TV every Wednesday, and therefore, things like the Valenzetti equation shouldn't be considered cannon (canon??).

J.J. did this with that train wreck Cloverfield. He put all the backstory into the web promotions and ARG's. If you're like me, you avoided all the internet stuff so you wouldn't ruin it for yourself, and then when the movie came out, you had no idea what the story was. I just feel that if they want to use the Valenzetti stuff, put it on the show.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: opgelost on April 22, 2009, 02:49:29 PM
Maybe they will introduce Valenzetti and Hanso at some point,
they have to explain the numbers.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 22, 2009, 02:52:26 PM
Yeah, I'm still holding out for them to bring it into the light of the show. I wouldn't put it past them to have held on to a secret like this for 6 seasons.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 22, 2009, 02:54:48 PM
No, I'm talking about the Valenzetti equation nonsense. I am willing to accept that the numbers came from the Serial Number stamped onto hatch, I'm not happy about it, but willing to accept it. What I got so excited about there was that I was saying that some people avoid any information about LOST that isn't on the TV every Wednesday, and therefore, things like the Valenzetti equation shouldn't be considered cannon (canon??).

J.J. did this with that train wreck Cloverfield. He put all the backstory into the web promotions and ARG's. If you're like me, you avoided all the internet stuff so you wouldn't ruin it for yourself, and then when the movie came out, you had no idea what the story was. I just feel that if they want to use the Valenzetti stuff, put it on the show.
You didn't like Clvoerfield? I thought it was awesome. And I only read the backstory after I saw the movie. How did you see it? Theatre? Cause it was tough to see what was going on in the theatre. The second time I watched it I watched it on a 42" plasma and saw everything a lot better.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Des on April 22, 2009, 03:07:36 PM
I don't know what all this Valenzetti stuff is about. I feel like I'm missing out on something.

EXACTLY MY POINT!!!

You're welcome. Please let me know next time my services are required to prove your point.

Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BrianIsLost2 on April 22, 2009, 03:12:01 PM

[/quote]

No, I'm talking about the Valenzetti equation nonsense. I am willing to accept that the numbers came from the Serial Number stamped onto hatch, I'm not happy about it, but willing to accept it. What I got so excited about there was that I was saying that some people avoid any information about LOST that isn't on the TV every Wednesday, and therefore, things like the Valenzetti equation shouldn't be considered cannon (canon??).

J.J. did this with that train wreck Cloverfield. He put all the backstory into the web promotions and ARG's. If you're like me, you avoided all the internet stuff so you wouldn't ruin it for yourself, and then when the movie came out, you had no idea what the story was. I just feel that if they want to use the Valenzetti stuff, put it on the show.
[/quote]

Just because the Valenzetti equation hasn't made it into to show yet doesn't mean that it won't.  I don't think that all the ARG and internet stuff is spoiling the experience of things like LOST and Cloverfield.  Just the opposite.  Those are things that are suppose to add the experience.  We are meant to go looking and find those things.  It's part of the story telling the JJ Abrams is trying to push.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 22, 2009, 03:12:45 PM
No, I'm talking about the Valenzetti equation nonsense. I am willing to accept that the numbers came from the Serial Number stamped onto hatch, I'm not happy about it, but willing to accept it. What I got so excited about there was that I was saying that some people avoid any information about LOST that isn't on the TV every Wednesday, and therefore, things like the Valenzetti equation shouldn't be considered cannon (canon??).

J.J. did this with that train wreck Cloverfield. He put all the backstory into the web promotions and ARG's. If you're like me, you avoided all the internet stuff so you wouldn't ruin it for yourself, and then when the movie came out, you had no idea what the story was. I just feel that if they want to use the Valenzetti stuff, put it on the show.
You didn't like Clvoerfield? I thought it was awesome. And I only read the backstory after I saw the movie. How did you see it? Theatre? Cause it was tough to see what was going on in the theatre. The second time I watched it I watched it on a 42" plasma and saw everything a lot better.

I did see it in a theatre, and that wasn't the problem. The thing is, when I first saw it, I was thinking it was an okay movie, and then the second time (with my other group of friends), I just realized that there was no story, no character development, nothing was resolved, nothing was explained. On top of that, the big secret about the Monster pissed me off. I waited so long to see what that stupid thing looked like, It was basically my main reason to see it because it was so secretive, and then the day after I saw it in the theatre, it was staring at me from my TV. Totally gay. All in all though, I just didn't see what the big deal was about. Although, the little scally monsters that came off of the big one were pretty freaking cool.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 22, 2009, 03:15:03 PM
Yeah I agree with you on the whole plot, nothing resolved, lame characters thing. I can see why people wouldnt like it. I just... I dunno... enjoyed it.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 22, 2009, 03:15:46 PM


No, I'm talking about the Valenzetti equation nonsense. I am willing to accept that the numbers came from the Serial Number stamped onto hatch, I'm not happy about it, but willing to accept it. What I got so excited about there was that I was saying that some people avoid any information about LOST that isn't on the TV every Wednesday, and therefore, things like the Valenzetti equation shouldn't be considered cannon (canon??).

J.J. did this with that train wreck Cloverfield. He put all the backstory into the web promotions and ARG's. If you're like me, you avoided all the internet stuff so you wouldn't ruin it for yourself, and then when the movie came out, you had no idea what the story was. I just feel that if they want to use the Valenzetti stuff, put it on the show.
[/quote]

Just because the Valenzetti equation hasn't made it into to show yet doesn't mean that it won't.  I don't think that all the ARG and internet stuff is spoiling the experience of things like LOST and Cloverfield.  Just the opposite.  Those are things that are suppose to add the experience.  We are meant to go looking and find those things.  It's part of the story telling the JJ Abrams is trying to push.
[/quote]

I'm not saying that it ruins or takes away from it at all, don't misunderstand me, but the fact of the matter is that the ARG's are suppossed to be done for fun. At the very most, they should peak the interest of the person into watching the show. What about the people who don't have an internet connection?? You're going to tell half of the story online, and leave those people out??
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Des on April 22, 2009, 03:17:42 PM
What if they were to incorporate the internet stuff into the show later on? So... it's like a "sneak preview" for those who take the time (and have internet!)
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 22, 2009, 03:20:33 PM
Yeah I agree with you on the whole plot, nothing resolved, lame characters thing. I can see why people wouldnt like it. I just... I dunno... enjoyed it.

If you enjoyed it, you enjoyed it. That's your thing, I just thought it was poorly marketed and delivered.

What if they were to incorporate the internet stuff into the show later on? So... it's like a "sneak preview" for those who take the time (and have internet!)

If they do, then that's great, but people have been spouting about the Valenzetti thing since S2 I think, and if they plan on getting it in, then they need to do it before next season starts. At least have it set up as something they will address next season. Like, maybe Jacob is Jacob Valenzetti.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: opgelost on April 22, 2009, 03:22:12 PM
Enzo Valenzetti.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 22, 2009, 03:23:35 PM
Enzo Valenzetti.

Robert Whelner. See, I can just say people's names too.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 22, 2009, 03:25:54 PM
Enzo Valenzetti.

Robert Whelner. See, I can just say people's names too.
LOL
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: opgelost on April 22, 2009, 03:28:09 PM
Enzo Valenzetti.

Robert Whelner. See, I can just say people's names too.

You could read lostpedia and know more about the numbers. You have internet.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BrianIsLost2 on April 22, 2009, 03:30:20 PM
What if they were to incorporate the internet stuff into the show later on? So... it's like a "sneak preview" for those who take the time (and have internet!)

Yes.  That is more or less where I stand on the matter.  The internet stuff can be canon (cannon?  I'm just as confused on that as you are Bob)  and it won't ruin anything for those who just watch the show.  The internet findings are just little teasers of what is to come.  Like the fake website that followed the story of the orangutan that was under experiments to extend its life. Then later we find out that the island holds somekind of secret of long life via Richard.  I guess I did misunderstand your other post, though, Bob.  Sorry about that.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Novashannon on April 22, 2009, 04:20:23 PM
You want math?
http://www.marianotomatis.it/index.php?id=blog&section=autoreferenza&url=20071224



No, I'm talking about the Valenzetti equation nonsense. I am willing to accept that the numbers came from the Serial Number stamped onto hatch, I'm not happy about it, but willing to accept it. What I got so excited about there was that I was saying that some people avoid any information about LOST that isn't on the TV every Wednesday, and therefore, things like the Valenzetti equation shouldn't be considered cannon (canon??).

J.J. did this with that train wreck Cloverfield. He put all the backstory into the web promotions and ARG's. If you're like me, you avoided all the internet stuff so you wouldn't ruin it for yourself, and then when the movie came out, you had no idea what the story was. I just feel that if they want to use the Valenzetti stuff, put it on the show.

I agree 100%.   Looking at stuff on the web can be fun, but anything we need to know to appreciate the story should be in the show!
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Novashannon on April 22, 2009, 04:24:57 PM
Since y'all have asked nicely:  canon is the word you are looking for, unless you mean big guns; those are cannon.
Bob, you are such a smart@$$, and I mean that in a good way; you crack me up sometimes. 
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: BobBX542 on April 22, 2009, 05:16:22 PM
Enzo Valenzetti.

Robert Whelner. See, I can just say people's names too.

You could read lostpedia and know more about the numbers. You have internet.

Right, I understand that, you understand that, but I don't accept them as canon (Thanks Nova) because they are not on the show, and if they plan on ending the show without explaining on air what the numbers mean, well that's just unacceptable.

Since y'all have asked nicely:  canon is the word you are looking for, unless you mean big guns; those are cannon.
Bob, you are such a smart@$$, and I mean that in a good way; you crack me up sometimes. 

Oh, I'm a total smart ass.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 22, 2009, 06:04:37 PM
In any case, I don't think they are done with the numbers yet. I think there is still more to reveal. But, if they don't actually tie the Valenzetti business into the show, I don't think it will be that big of a deal to the viewer. The extra stuff is exactly that. Like, nobody could actually think that its just a serial number by now could they? There have been way too many examples of their use. But even if we don't find out for sure in the show that it has to do with the Valenzetti equation specifically, it still won't make a difference to our story. The online content is probably there for the geeks like us who have the time, and means, to search it out.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: Novashannon on April 23, 2009, 11:47:35 AM
Just to clarify: I think there is sometihing more esoteric to the numbers than just the hatch id.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: nomteticus on April 23, 2009, 06:16:27 PM
You know, Sawyer, Juliet, Miles and Jin have been on the island for three years. LeSawyer is even in the "circle of trust". You'd think that they'd show us a scene where he asks Horace "So H, what exactly are you doing on this island?", and we find out about the equation. Anyway, I hope Faraday tells the audience next episode all about Dharma.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: nomteticus on April 23, 2009, 06:46:09 PM
Well, they better introduce this Valenzetti thing soon, because the Dharma story is running out of screen time. I don't think that season 6 will feature our losties in '77, so now is the time to tell us about the apocalyptic equation.
I dind't play TLE, but read all about it on Lostpedia, and it really seemed like a good story. I really hope they stick with it. I would be really dissapointed if Dharma were just a bunch of scientists without a clear purpose on the island. Now, trying to save the world with math, that would be cool. And Horace is a mathmatician after all...

Trying to save the world with math = Jugdish's job.  :D

This is a great post, Nomteticus!

Thank you, Lakie. Nice as always.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: ukslim on April 27, 2009, 07:34:14 AM
Late coming into this discussion: I was on vacation (in Mexico: no symptoms yet!)

I'm clinging to the belief that the numbers were 'created' in the lottery: assuming the lottery wasn't a fix, it's a random draw, so there's no opportunity for the past to influence it.

My original theory went like this:

Note: not a falsidical paradox. It would only be a paradox of that kind if somehow the past became inconsistent with the future.
(Edited to add "falsidical" - it *is* a predestination paradox of sorts - but hey, that's a mainstay of literature)

Some Like It Hoth broke that theory somewhat - the hatch has its serial number, and we didn't see Hurley influence the choice of number.

However, other people exposed to the numbers also went back in time. Perhaps one of them (knowlingly?) assigned the numbers. Faraday? Someone we don't know went back? Someone we've never met?
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 30, 2009, 12:27:14 PM
So after "The Variable" I was thinking about what Dan said about how they were the variables in the equation. Where does that sound familiar? The numbers are supposed to represent variables in the Valenzetti equation right? So could the people (Jack et all) represent the numbers? Are they going to be the ones to change the extinction of the human race?
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: nomteticus on April 30, 2009, 12:36:15 PM
Hmmm, we still didn't get anything about the numbers this episode, which kind of pissed me off, but your theory is interesting.

Let's see: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Miles, Sawyer, Juliet, Jin, Faraday. That's 8, and the numbers are 6. Maybe they're digits or something. What about Rose and Bernard? Do the dead ones count? Who knows?
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: grizn0 on April 30, 2009, 12:45:57 PM
Yeah, its going to be tough to try and tie it in. I just thought that immediately when he said they were the variables.
Title: Re: the numbers
Post by: laklost on April 30, 2009, 02:11:16 PM
Nah, I seriously doubt that an individual number corresponds to an individual Lostie.  That's a little too tidy.

Hmmm...maybe Valenzetti will never make it into the story.  I wonder though...