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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x01 => Topic started by: Mommainternet on January 24, 2009, 03:15:49 PM

Title: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mommainternet on January 24, 2009, 03:15:49 PM
Richard tells Locke to hold onto his compass because Richard won't recognize him the next time he sees him and Ethan didn't know who Locke was when he saw him after the island moved.

How come Sawyer and Juliet and all of them still know each other if their plane hasn't gone down yet?

Trying to figure out why Richard wouldn't know Locke.

Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: MangoBingo on January 24, 2009, 03:51:50 PM
Trying to figure out why Richard wouldn't know Locke.

I'm guessing it's because Locke will next meet Richard in Richard's past. Because it happened/will happen in Richard's past, he already had knowledge of it.

All the Losties are bouncing around time, because (presumably) they were all on or around the Island at the time Ben moved the Island.

It's more intriguing that Richard didn't bounce at the same time as Locke did. All the Island's other inhabitants appear to have done so - even the Others' small task force disappeared. I can only deduce that this was Richard in the near-past (after meeting Locke but prior to the Island moving); Richard from the future whom had somehow travelled back (unlikely as the Island's erratic skipping would probably make this impossible); or Richard is outside of time itself. Hmmm...
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: lostandfree on January 24, 2009, 04:48:40 PM
The survivors all know each other because they are time traveling together in the present, as their current selves.  Their memories aren't being erased. 

Ethan didn't know Locke because Locke time traveled back to a time before they had met.  Ethan and the other "Others" are not time traveling during all of this.  So Locke has run into "past Ethan".  I'm assuming that Locke will time travel to a time before he and Richard ever met, which is why Richard won't know him.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on January 24, 2009, 07:23:24 PM
Yea.  this was explained or I thought it was explained when Richard said I didnt time travel but you did, or something to that effect.  Basically saying the others do not time travel.  Remember the video that said only fools are trapped by time and space.  Basically to me this means that if you do not know the truth or everything there is to know about the island then you will move in time but if you do know all there is to know about the island then you dont move in time.  Which is why Locke went back to when the Nigerian plane crash that Ethan showed up.  because at that time he was not dead yet.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Asmodean on January 24, 2009, 09:44:08 PM
Seems like Richard would know John anywhere/time.  He was there at his birth and again during the "test."  John might not look the same, but I get the feeling he's been watched closely throughout his life.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: lostandfree on January 24, 2009, 10:43:34 PM
Seems like Richard would know John anywhere/time.  He was there at his birth and again during the "test."  John might not look the same, but I get the feeling he's been watched closely throughout his life.

That's a good point.  Maybe Locke goes WAAAAAAY back in time before Richard ever became aware of Lockes existence.  OOh maybe that's HOW Richard becomes aware of his existence.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: PrincessLeia on January 24, 2009, 10:47:44 PM
Seems like Richard would know John anywhere/time.  He was there at his birth and again during the "test."  John might not look the same, but I get the feeling he's been watched closely throughout his life.
I've had a difficult time reconciling this one.  The only possibility I can think of is that Richard doesn't start stalking Locke until after the meeting we've yet to see when Locke gives him the compass.

...just as we had seen the Beechcraft on the Island before it even crashed there.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: lostandfree on January 24, 2009, 10:59:03 PM
That's kind of what I said.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: PrincessLeia on January 24, 2009, 11:16:21 PM
That's kind of what I said.
ohmygoodness. LOL  I was in my kitchen just now cooking dinner, & I said to myself, "That's what he/she was talking about!"  I immediately put down my cooking spoon, walked straight to the computer, & logged in just to post....

I agree with lostandfree. ;D







Sorry.  I'm slow like that. :D
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: lostandfree on January 24, 2009, 11:21:39 PM
LOL, no worries :)

I feel so special that you would just drop everything to come and clarify. :P
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: hatch4815162342 on January 24, 2009, 11:49:46 PM
Is i the losties or the island that is moving in time? and is the compass richards constant in some way???????????
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Hurley rocks dudes on January 25, 2009, 12:55:21 AM
richard is not a time traveller, he gave locke the compass to show richard in the past that richard knows locke in the future...




(this has really been bothering me for a while so i have to get this out.... why do people always assume that everybody is time-traveling and therefore needs a constant?? only the people who are getting bloody noses and collapsing randomly need constants. last i checked, only desmond is doing that. it looks like charlotted is going the same way. it could happen to daniel but it hasn't happened yet. he wrote that desmond would be his constant if anything went wrong, but it hasn't happened to him yet.... locke isn't time traveling on his own, so he doesn't need a constant.... richard is not time traveling so he doesn't need a constant.....) sorry i had to let it out lol
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mommainternet on January 25, 2009, 10:06:49 AM
What "this is some crazy stuff" and "lostandfree" wrote makes sense.  I have to think about it some more because how would Richard know that he wouldn't recognize Locke the next time they met?

And still wondering just what Richard is in all of this.  Go back and forth in my mind with the theory Richard, Ben, Claire and Christian have all died, but that maybe you can't really die on the island and that's why Ben allows his daughter to be shot.

Need to see a few more episodes to fill in more of the pieces.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 25, 2009, 02:39:23 PM
but if Richard isn't a time traveler then how come he is the same age when locke was born and then when he tested him? Locke wasn't time traveling then. ??? It's hard enough to figure out lost, now with time travel it's going to be almost impossible! ha

also, I agree with lostandfree too. that was my first thought too. he will meet Richard before Richard knew about locke. and from the looks of things , from the coming attractions...... (if you don't watch coming attractions don't read the next line...)   


Richard will still be on the island at that time.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: PrincessLeia on January 25, 2009, 04:15:59 PM
What "this is some crazy stuff" and "lostandfree" wrote makes sense.  I have to think about it some more because how would Richard know that he wouldn't recognize Locke the next time they met?

And still wondering just what Richard is in all of this.  Go back and forth in my mind with the theory Richard, Ben, Claire and Christian have all died, but that maybe you can't really die on the island and that's why Ben allows his daughter to be shot.

Need to see a few more episodes to fill in more of the pieces.
The producers addressed this idea early in the series.  People are dying on the Island.  The stakes really are that high.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Alex2000 on January 25, 2009, 11:56:40 PM
but if Richard isn't a time traveler then how come he is the same age when locke was born and then when he tested him?

I think the general consensus has been that Richard just doesn't age, but that we just don't know why. Maybe none of the island natives do. Maybe they live forever (or at least hundreds of years). Which is why the population of "others" can be maintained even though they can't have children.

Quote
Maybe Locke goes WAAAAAAY back in time before Richard ever became aware of Lockes existence.  OOh maybe that's HOW Richard becomes aware of his existence.

Either that or just after Richard visits Locke as a child.

Remember that when Richard visits the child Locke "he tested Locke by presenting him with a baseball glove, a book of laws, a vial of sand, a compass, a comic book, and a knife. Locke was asked to identify which of these items were "already" his. Richard was pleased when Locke chose the compass and vial of sand, and smiled slightly as the child considered the book, but Locke ultimately chose the knife." (from lostpedia).

I think the timeline looks somethings like this:

1) Locke is timeshifted back to the early 50s. (It might have already happened. Don't you think that the uniforms and weapons of the soldiers that Juliet, Sawyer and finally Locke were fighting looked like they were WW2 era?). Locke tells Richard to help him in the (very) distant future with his wound.

2) Locke meets Richard for the "first" time (keeping in mind that Richard doesn't age). Using the compass to prove who he is (somehow).
   Richard visits Locke as a baby in 1956 then again as a child in 1961 where the compass is one of the items shown to him.

3) [Pre-Oceanic 815 Crash, but Post-Dharma genocide and Ben's takeover] Locke appears before Ethan who then confronts him. Ethan would obviously tell Richard about this encounter (confirming what Locke told Richard in the "past").

4) Oceanic 815 Crashes, events of season 1 to 4 take place, Locke takes over the others. 

5) Ben turns wheel, things go nuts, Richard watches the crashed plane sight for the "foretold" appearance of the wounded Locke.


As I said earlier, points 1 and 2 could be reversed and it would all still work.

Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Hurley rocks dudes on January 26, 2009, 12:00:27 AM
but if Richard isn't a time traveler then how come he is the same age when locke was born and then when he tested him?

I think the general consensus has been that Richard just doesn't age, but that we just don't know why. Maybe none of the island natives do. Maybe they live forever (or at least hundreds of years). Which is why the population of "others" can be maintained even though they can't have children.

Quote
Maybe Locke goes WAAAAAAY back in time before Richard ever became aware of Lockes existence.  OOh maybe that's HOW Richard becomes aware of his existence.

Either that or just after Richard visits Locke as a child.

Remember that when Richard visits the child Locke "he tested Locke by presenting him with a baseball glove, a book of laws, a vial of sand, a compass, a comic book, and a knife. Locke was asked to identify which of these items were "already" his. Richard was pleased when Locke chose the compass and vial of sand, and smiled slightly as the child considered the book, but Locke ultimately chose the knife." (from lostpedia).

I think the timeline looks somethings like this:

1) Locke is timeshifted back to the early 50s. (It might have already happened. Don't you think that the uniforms and weapons of the soldiers that Juliet, Sawyer and finally Locke were fighting looked like they were WW2 era?). Locke tells Richard to help him in the (very) distant future with his wound.

2) Locke meets Richard for the "first" time (keeping in mind that Richard doesn't age). Using the compass to prove who he is (somehow).
   Richard visits Locke as a baby in 1956 then again as a child in 1961 where the compass is one of the items shown to him.

3) [Pre-Oceanic 815 Crash, but Post-Dharma genocide and Ben's takeover] Locke appears before Ethan who then confronts him. Ethan would obviously tell Richard about this encounter (confirming what Locke told Richard in the "past").

4) Oceanic 815 Crashes, events of season 1 to 4 take place, Locke takes over the others. 

5) Ben turns wheel, things go nuts, Richard watches the crashed plane sight for the "foretold" appearance of the wounded Locke.


As I said earlier, points 1 and 2 could be reversed and it would all still work.


very good explanation... i completely agree with this
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: PrincessLeia on January 26, 2009, 12:04:37 AM
Sounds good, Alex.  I can't see any holes in your ideas.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Alex2000 on January 26, 2009, 12:21:46 AM
Thanks  ;)

Can someone confirm that the compass shown to lock in 1961 is the same that Richard gave him in Season 5?

Alex
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Hurley rocks dudes on January 26, 2009, 12:25:19 AM
i think someone might have tried. i can't remember which compasses they compared...
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: PrincessLeia on January 26, 2009, 12:28:49 AM
According to Lostpedia, it's the same compass in both episodes ("Cabin Fever" & "Because You Left").
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Gmonkey on January 26, 2009, 02:28:56 AM
Its clear that Richard has known about Locke for a while (at least his birth). So wouldn't it make sense that he wouldn't recgnize Locke - if he WASN'T Locke?!?! - like if he was Jeremy Bentham. And looked completely diffrent than locke but was locke in jeremy benthams body. And with locke giving richard the compass is some kind of confirmation.

I know this is a stretch to do this, but its seems to make sense. I mean if Locke has to die, then he could come back as Jeremy Bentham (might explain the "test" richard did on locke as a boy - maybe there is come kind of reincarnation theme or something????)

am i not aming sense again???? i seem to be getting good at this...
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Alex2000 on January 26, 2009, 02:58:25 AM
Its clear that Richard has known about Locke for a while (at least his birth). So wouldn't it make sense that he wouldn't recgnize Locke - if he WASN'T Locke?!?! - like if he was Jeremy Bentham. And looked completely diffrent than locke but was locke in jeremy benthams body. And with locke giving richard the compass is some kind of confirmation.

I know this is a stretch to do this, but its seems to make sense. I mean if Locke has to die, then he could come back as Jeremy Bentham (might explain the "test" richard did on locke as a boy - maybe there is come kind of reincarnation theme or something????)

am i not aming sense again???? i seem to be getting good at this...

The only thing I understood from that was the first sentence.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: MangoBingo on January 26, 2009, 04:20:27 AM
I mean if Locke has to die, then he could come back as Jeremy Bentham (might explain the "test" richard did on locke as a boy - maybe there is come kind of reincarnation theme or something????)

I thought Locke was simply using an alias off-Island, purely because he didn't want to blow his friends' cover story of all the other passengers dying?  ???
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: karatemama on January 26, 2009, 11:43:40 AM
Seems like Richard would know John anywhere/time.  He was there at his birth and again during the "test."  John might not look the same, but I get the feeling he's been watched closely throughout his life.


Or...Richard is lying and he need to throw Locke off by telling him that he wouldn't remember Locke.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: lostandfree on January 26, 2009, 12:02:04 PM
I mean if Locke has to die, then he could come back as Jeremy Bentham (might explain the "test" richard did on locke as a boy - maybe there is come kind of reincarnation theme or something????)

I thought Locke was simply using an alias off-Island, purely because he didn't want to blow his friends' cover story of all the other passengers dying?  ???

You are correct Mango as far as I can tell.  We can see Locke in the coffin so he didn't come back in someone else's body.  That makes no sense whatsoever.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 26, 2009, 12:35:46 PM
I was thinking about this and one question I have is why did desmond not rememeber speaking to Daniel at the hatch untill three years later, yet Richard knows that Locke will contact him in the future and tell him he is shot and richard remebers that but it has not happened yet?

Also what if the first time that Yemmi's plane crashed was that day locke was walking to find the others, after the island/people started jumping in time, (A little head spinner me thinks but...)  so when Locke/boone actualy saw the plane for the first time, It actually hadnt crashed yet but since it was going to in the past it was there, but the first time it actualy crashed was when the Island moved into its time/space, same thing for the black rock when 815 crashed the boat hadnt come to the island yet but since it will happen in the past it was in the future.  , huh ? huh?  anyone follow me on this?
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: lostandfree on January 26, 2009, 12:57:24 PM
huh? nope not following
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 26, 2009, 01:16:18 PM
I THINK what squirt is saying is that the plane that yemmy was on really first crashed when locke saw it crash last Wednesday. and that when locke first saw the plane with Boone it was a premonition or some sort or fortelling of the future. am I right?

That couldn't be the case because yemmi's brother Eko knew when he left on that plane and knew when he died. and he had died a long time before the 815ers crashed on the island. there are a lot of other reasons i can't think of right now with a head cold...
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Writers_Strike on January 26, 2009, 01:25:31 PM
All of this island jumping to make the beechcraft crash and let's say blackrock points to the fact that there is no free will. It is all predetermined destiny. I have a weird feeling that at some point Jack will have to push some kind of button in the past to make 815 crash. Kind of like the decision he had to make whether or not he would push the Swan's button, episode 2-1 I think.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 26, 2009, 01:42:16 PM
I THINK what squirt is saying is that the plane that yemmy was on really first crashed when locke saw it crash last Wednesday. and that when locke first saw the plane with Boone it was a premonition or some sort or fortelling of the future. am I right?

That couldn't be the case because yemmi's brother Eko knew when he left on that plane and knew when he died. and he had died a long time before the 815ers crashed on the island. there are a lot of other reasons i can't think of right now with a head cold...

You do understand, but....

Ekko would still know when he left and he would die at the same time according to Yemmis body and decay because that is eventually what happened,  but when the plane took off its flight was interrupted by the island appearing somewhere it wasnt until say ten years later,

I say that if Ben did not move the island the plane would have taken off in the past and then landed at its intended destination, nothing fishy,

But,  if it was going to be interupted/crash landing on the island becuase that is what was going to happen whether it be ten years from when the plane actually took off or (to Yemmi and plane crew) the same day they took off, the point is it was going to happen so it was there when locke and boone first saw it. I am not saying that the plane boone and locke first encountered was an apparition but IT WAS the plane that was going to crash land a few months later, (from locke/boone perspective)  but actually happened int he past  but couldnt/wouldnt have happened if ben did not move the island.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Writers_Strike on January 26, 2009, 01:52:12 PM
Stupid fate >:(
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 26, 2009, 01:53:18 PM
Its alot like what came first, the chicken or the egg?

How can the plane be on the island in the past if it wont crash until the future, but since in the future it will crash in what was the past it will be on the island before the 815'ers, even though it wont happen till after the Island moves the 815'ers still see it because it crashed in the past.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 26, 2009, 02:06:23 PM
OK, yes, i understand. i know you were saying the plane was real when Boone and he saw it. and i get the idea of which came first theory.
But i think what happened happened then and now the island is just going back in time and it is happening all over again. and that is how we know time is skipping back on the island and not forward. it is a bookmark.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Alex2000 on January 26, 2009, 02:16:02 PM
How can the plane be on the island in the past if it wont crash until the future, but since in the future it will crash in what was the past it will be on the island before the 815'ers, even though it wont happen till after the Island moves the 815'ers still see it because it crashed in the past.


Why do you think it crashes in the "future"? It seemed clear that Locke and the other 815ers had just been time-skipped back to events pre-815-crash but post Dharma extermination. Remember that we see Sawyer and the others examining "the hatch" area. We see Sawyer and the gang leaving their now-gone camp, then it cuts to Locke and his sighting of the plane. It is safe to assume that he is time-skipping along with the other 815ers (we even see them together at the end of the episode).

 I'll borrow from my previous post with the time-line and include the plane crash.

1) Locke is timeshifted back to the early 50s. (It might have already happened. Don't you think that the uniforms and weapons of the soldiers that Juliet, Sawyer and finally Locke were fighting looked like they were WW2 era?). Locke tells Richard to help him in the (very) distant future with his wound.

2) Locke meets Richard for the "first" time (keeping in mind that Richard doesn't age). Using the compass to prove who he is (somehow).
   Richard visits Locke as a baby in 1956 then again as a child in 1961 where the compass is one of the items shown to him.

3) Locke and the 815ers are time skipped.[Pre-Oceanic 815 Crash, but Post-Dharma genocide and Ben's takeover]Sawyer and the 815ers leave the beach where their camp will be in the future. Locke sees the drug plane (with Eko's brother on it) crash into the island. He goes to the crash site. Locke appears before Ethan (who doesn't know Locke yet) who then confronts him. Ethan would obviously tell Richard about this encounter (confirming what Locke told Richard in the "past").

4) Oceanic 815 Crashes, events of season 1 to 4 take place, Locke takes over the others.  

5) Ben turns wheel, things go nuts, Richard watches the crashed plane site for the "foretold" appearance of the wounded Locke.

Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: CastawayCayley on January 26, 2009, 02:22:17 PM
Its alot like what came first, the chicken or the egg?

How can the plane be on the island in the past if it wont crash until the future, but since in the future it will crash in what was the past it will be on the island before the 815'ers, even though it wont happen till after the Island moves the 815'ers still see it because it crashed in the past.

OK, yes, i understand. i know you were saying the plane was real when Boone and he saw it. and i get the idea of which came first theory.
But i think what happened happened then and now the island is just going back in time and it is happening all over again. and that is how we know time is skipping back on the island and not forward. it is a bookmark.
I think Mrs. Hume is right; the beechcraft didnt crash because the losties are jumping, it just crashed for whatever reasons it crashed. Locke just jumped to that part in the established timeline of the island and witnessed it.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 26, 2009, 02:25:13 PM
How can the plane be on the island in the past if it wont crash until the future, but since in the future it will crash in what was the past it will be on the island before the 815'ers, even though it wont happen till after the Island moves the 815'ers still see it because it crashed in the past.


Why do you think it crashes in the "future"? It seemed clear that Locke and the other 815ers had just been time-skipped back to events pre-815-crash but post Dharma extermination. I'll borrow from my previous post with the time-line and include the plane crash.

1) Locke is timeshifted back to the early 50s. (It might have already happened. Don't you think that the uniforms and weapons of the soldiers that Juliet, Sawyer and finally Locke were fighting looked like they were WW2 era?). Locke tells Richard to help him in the (very) distant future with his wound.

2) Locke meets Richard for the "first" time (keeping in mind that Richard doesn't age). Using the compass to prove who he is (somehow).
   Richard visits Locke as a baby in 1956 then again as a child in 1961 where the compass is one of the items shown to him.

3) Locke and the 815ers are time skipped.[Pre-Oceanic 815 Crash, but Post-Dharma genocide and Ben's takeover] Locke sees the drug plane (with Eko's brother on it) crash into the island. He goes to the crash site. Locke appears before Ethan (who doesn't know Locke yet) who then confronts him. Ethan would obviously tell Richard about this encounter (confirming what Locke told Richard in the "past").Still fits but this is the first time the plane comes to the island, since it is in the islands past the plane is seen by locke and boone in the future because it will happen

4) Oceanic 815 Crashes, events of season 1 to 4 take place, Locke takes over the others.  

5) Ben turns wheel, things go nuts, Richard watches the crashed plane site for the "foretold" appearance of the wounded Locke.


Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 26, 2009, 02:27:39 PM
you know what. I see what you mean. it happeneds in the future past. (lol) it is possible but i don't think for the sake of the casual viewer that they would go that deep.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 26, 2009, 02:28:32 PM
OK, yes, i understand. i know you were saying the plane was real when Boone and he saw it. and i get the idea of which came first theory.
But i think what happened happened then and now the island is just going back in time and it is happening all over again. and that is how we know time is skipping back on the island and not forward. it is a bookmark.

Thats what I thought initially but this thought came to me on Saturday as I watched the episode again.  Just a thought is all, but interesting
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 26, 2009, 02:33:30 PM
that is exactly where i get all confused about time travel. the what comes first factor.. so the way i think it is , is there is a base line. one that never changes and came first. Then, every thing else can slide up and down on that time line,back or forth.  ? ? ?  ???   
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Writers_Strike on January 26, 2009, 03:09:12 PM
Unless the island is also moving, then you can not account for the beechcraft making it that far. How about the Blackrock, did the island pop up underneath it as we all assume? The island is definitely moving around, we just don't know if it moves when the losties time travel. I say no on that one.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: lostfromthestart on January 26, 2009, 03:32:09 PM
The island is not moving as the Lostee Time Travelling Tour Group jumps around.  The island only moves when the donkey wheel gets turned.  The moral of the story - You gotta turn the donkey wheel if you want the island to dance..... or something like that....
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 26, 2009, 03:34:05 PM
right. a while ago, everyone here. well,maybe not everyone , but a lot of people ,thought that maybe the island did move and that , that was how the black rock got there. by the island popping up from under it. Not so far fetched these days, but maybe it is more like the island wasn't as big yrs ago when it crashed there, and has since evolved or changed through (natural) time the way land and water changes things naturally. But, I thought dan said it wasn't the island that was moving.
                                                
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 26, 2009, 03:44:54 PM
I thought Daniel was not sure which but just as likely to be the survivors but left it at possibly both the Island and the losties

I say the island is moving thru both space and time, and the losties are moving with it.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: PrincessLeia on January 26, 2009, 03:53:50 PM
Unless the island is also moving, then you can not account for the beechcraft making it that far. How about the Blackrock, did the island pop up underneath it as we all assume? The island is definitely moving around, we just don't know if it moves when the losties time travel. I say no on that one.
The Island is stationary, but since it is dislodged from the timeline, the space it occupies is determined by the position of the earth @ that exact time in history.  (That's the significance of the pendulum in Ms. Hawkings' lab.)  The Island did "pop up" in the path of the Beechcraft, just as it has (or will ;) ) under the Black Rock.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 26, 2009, 04:28:26 PM
AHHH,

THANKS FOR THAT
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: PrincessLeia on January 26, 2009, 04:33:41 PM
I must say that this is only a theory (with credit also going to Madam P for giving me the vocabulary to define it!)

Don't let me lead you astray if you have other great ideas! lol
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 26, 2009, 04:51:55 PM
Unless the island is also moving, then you can not account for the beechcraft making it that far. How about the Blackrock, did the island pop up underneath it as we all assume? The island is definitely moving around, we just don't know if it moves when the losties time travel. I say no on that one.
The Island is stationary, but since it is dislodged from the timeline, the space it occupies is determined by the position of the earth @ that exact time in history.  (That's the significance of the pendulum in Ms. Hawkings' lab.)  The Island did "pop up" in the path of the Beechcraft, just as it has (or will ;) ) under the Black Rock.

So you agree with my line of thinking?  It hasnt happened yet but will so it is there in the future?
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 26, 2009, 05:06:55 PM
now I dont know why I list two seperate questions in the same post but any thoughts on why richard knows Locke Will come to him in the past, but Desmond did not have that memory until after daniel visited him and he was already in the future?
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 26, 2009, 05:07:18 PM
I must say that this is only a theory (with credit also going to Madam P for giving me the vocabulary to define it!)

Don't let me lead you astray if you have other great ideas! lol

My thanks to Madam P also.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 26, 2009, 05:09:10 PM
squirt, don't you mean the past ?  I just don't see them doing that because if that's the case , where will it end? If that is the way they are going wouldn't it get so complicated that it wont even be possible to follow? (even more so than it is now?) ESPECIALLY for the casual viewer.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 26, 2009, 05:11:02 PM
squirt, don't you mean the past ?  I just don't see them doing that because if that's the case , where will it end? If that is the way they are going wouldn't it get so complicated that it wont even be possible to follow? (even more so than it is now?) ESPECIALLY for the casual viewer.

you will have to quote me on this.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: PrincessLeia on January 26, 2009, 05:11:15 PM
Unless the island is also moving, then you can not account for the beechcraft making it that far. How about the Blackrock, did the island pop up underneath it as we all assume? The island is definitely moving around, we just don't know if it moves when the losties time travel. I say no on that one.
The Island is stationary, but since it is dislodged from the timeline, the space it occupies is determined by the position of the earth @ that exact time in history.  (That's the significance of the pendulum in Ms. Hawkings' lab.)  The Island did "pop up" in the path of the Beechcraft, just as it has (or will ;) ) under the Black Rock.

So you agree with my line of thinking?  It hasnt happened yet but will so it is there in the future?
I do, I do. :)

squirt, don't you mean the past ?  I just don't see them doing that because if that's the case , where will it end? If that is the way they are going wouldn't it get so complicated that it wont even be possible to follow? (even more so than it is now?) ESPECIALLY for the casual viewer.
THAT's what will happen in 70 hours!  Mass aneurysms of LOST viewers around the world! :-[ ::) :D
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 26, 2009, 05:15:19 PM
hey,
Why is my nosebleeding?  havent had my nosebleed for years.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 26, 2009, 05:15:23 PM


squirt, don't you mean the past ?  I just don't see them doing that because if that's the case , where will it end? If that is the way they are going wouldn't it get so complicated that it wont even be possible to follow? (even more so than it is now?) ESPECIALLY for the casual viewer.
THAT's what will happen in 70 hours!  Mass aneurysms of LOST viewers around the world! :-[ ::) :D

forget 70 hrs , I think im having one now! lol  :o
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: DIZZYBECKSTER on January 26, 2009, 06:37:19 PM
I dont get how you all dismissed the theory that Richard is a time traveller too... It makes sense... and understandable for Mrs & Mrs Casual Viewer also. He hasn't aged. Thats because in Richard's eyes all the events probably took place in a 12 month period or something. He jumped back in time to find Locke as a baby, to test him, and all the times he's appeared to him on island. Richard interacts with all other charcters too - but obviously has a connection with Locke hence being there at key times, planting seeds or ideas, guiding him through.

And probably been mentioned elsewhere but has to post somewhere..... i have a theory on the whispers... it's the voices of timeshifted people, not quite in the right time...

chew on those then...
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Alex2000 on January 26, 2009, 07:13:54 PM
I dont get how you all dismissed the theory that Richard is a time traveller too... It makes sense... and understandable for Mrs & Mrs Casual Viewer also. He hasn't aged. Thats because in Richard's eyes all the events probably took place in a 12 month period or something. He jumped back in time to find Locke as a baby, to test him, and all the times he's appeared to him on island. Richard interacts with all other charcters too - but obviously has a connection with Locke hence being there at key times, planting seeds or ideas, guiding him through.

And probably been mentioned elsewhere but has to post somewhere..... i have a theory on the whispers... it's the voices of timeshifted people, not quite in the right time...

chew on those then...

Not really dismissing it. I just think it is unlikely. I just find it hard to believe there is some time machine somewhere on the island that Richard gets into, and hops around time in. It is just too... too cliché. But it is possible I suppose (but I would be disappointed - lazy writing)

 I just think it makes a lot more sense, and it is more fitting in keeping with the ambitious LOST storytelling that Richard, and other island "natives", just age a lot more slowly than people off the island... somehow.

Speculation as to why? Well it might not be that Richard and the other "others" are superhumans or something. But just that for them, and other island "natives" time moves differently, so that they appear to never age.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: DIZZYBECKSTER on January 26, 2009, 07:27:33 PM
I dont get how you all dismissed the theory that Richard is a time traveller too... It makes sense... and understandable for Mrs & Mrs Casual Viewer also. He hasn't aged. Thats because in Richard's eyes all the events probably took place in a 12 month period or something. He jumped back in time to find Locke as a baby, to test him, and all the times he's appeared to him on island. Richard interacts with all other charcters too - but obviously has a connection with Locke hence being there at key times, planting seeds or ideas, guiding him through.

And probably been mentioned elsewhere but has to post somewhere..... i have a theory on the whispers... it's the voices of timeshifted people, not quite in the right time...

chew on those then...

Not really dismissing it. I just think it is unlikely. I just find it hard to believe there is some time machine somewhere on the island that Richard gets into, and hops around time in. It is just too... too cliché. But it is possible I suppose (but I would be disappointed - lazy writing)

 I just think it makes a lot more sense, and it is more fitting in keeping with the ambitious LOST storytelling that Richard, and other island "natives", just age a lot more slowly than people off the island... somehow.

Speculation as to why? Well it might not be that Richard and the other "others" are superhumans or something. But just that for them, and other island "natives" time moves differently, so that they appear to never age.


sorry - did you say there is no time machine?? what about Bunny 15?
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 26, 2009, 07:50:24 PM
Yes! Bunny 15! and Ben wasn't all that surprised to be in a different time when he left the island after turning the wheel either. like it wasn't ' the first time he had time traveled. all he other people are confussed about what is happening to them while Richard is calm. Like an old pro who has done it hundreds of times. I'm with dizzybeckster. we can't dismiss the idea that Richard timed travels.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: DIZZYBECKSTER on January 26, 2009, 08:04:36 PM
Yes! Bunny 15! and Ben wasn't all that surprised to be in a different time when he left the island after turning the wheel either. like it wasn't ' the first time he had time traveled. all he other people are confussed about what is happening to them while Richard is calm. Like an old pro who has done it hundreds of times. I'm with dizzybeckster. we can't dismiss the idea that Richard timed travels.
thank honey - your lapel badge is in the mail ;)
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 26, 2009, 08:13:20 PM
could You  make it with lots of rhinestones pls?!  ;D 
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: DIZZYBECKSTER on January 26, 2009, 08:14:49 PM
you betcha - as sparkly as the twinkle in a timeshifting-losties eye
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Alex2000 on January 26, 2009, 08:48:38 PM
I dont get how you all dismissed the theory that Richard is a time traveller too... It makes sense... and understandable for Mrs & Mrs Casual Viewer also. He hasn't aged. Thats because in Richard's eyes all the events probably took place in a 12 month period or something. He jumped back in time to find Locke as a baby, to test him, and all the times he's appeared to him on island. Richard interacts with all other charcters too - but obviously has a connection with Locke hence being there at key times, planting seeds or ideas, guiding him through.

And probably been mentioned elsewhere but has to post somewhere..... i have a theory on the whispers... it's the voices of timeshifted people, not quite in the right time...

chew on those then...

Not really dismissing it. I just think it is unlikely. I just find it hard to believe there is some time machine somewhere on the island that Richard gets into, and hops around time in. It is just too... too cliché. But it is possible I suppose (but I would be disappointed - lazy writing)

 I just think it makes a lot more sense, and it is more fitting in keeping with the ambitious LOST storytelling that Richard, and other island "natives", just age a lot more slowly than people off the island... somehow.

Speculation as to why? Well it might not be that Richard and the other "others" are superhumans or something. But just that for them, and other island "natives" time moves differently, so that they appear to never age.


sorry - did you say there is no time machine?? what about Bunny 15?

So? What about him? We all know Dharma was experimenting with the special properties of the island. We also know that The Orchid Station, and it's rabbits, were involved with experimentation with time and some sort of time travel travel.

But I think it is a huge leap to assume that just because Dharma was doing experiments in that area, that therefore the "others" have a complete working time machine hidden somewhere. I still think it is unlikely.

Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 26, 2009, 10:07:58 PM
well,wait a miniute....  it's obvious Dharma didn't build that wheel in the rocks now, so who did?!  the others maybe?! and I'm sure they weren't experimenting since it worked. so why is that so hard to believe Richard would be all knowing and able to time travel if the others knew more about it and actually built something to make the whole island or at least a lot of people on the island to be able to skip in time so the island can't be found? Probably one of the main reasons for Dharma to come to that island to experiment in the first place. I'm thinking it's not that far fetched .
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: DIZZYBECKSTER on January 27, 2009, 12:53:27 PM
;) yeah.. what she said
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: MangoBingo on January 27, 2009, 04:42:05 PM
I dont get how you all dismissed the theory that Richard is a time traveller too...

The first reply to this thread was mine... and I said that Richard may have travelled back from the future.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 27, 2009, 04:46:18 PM
Dizzy said that because in the last pages of the thread ppl were starting to say richard wasn't time traveling. 
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Alex2000 on January 27, 2009, 05:14:56 PM
except that all the foreshadowing around dharma and time manipulation (the rabbits etc) were related to Dharma's Orchid station. Thats where they were doing their research, and that was the focus of our speculation. We found out what was there. It wasn't a traditional Doctor Who time machine. It was the wheel, which does seem to manipulate time somehow in order to move the island. If we were going to come across a Lost version of the TARDAS, wouldn't it have been logical to find it at the Orchid station after all that foreshadowing? I think we have found the island's "time manipulation device" - The wheel. I find it hard to believe that we are going to stumble across another room down there under the Orchid with a Tardas police box in it.

But you might say "it might be somewhere else". But all the time related foreshadowing has revolved around the Orchid. For them to go now "well over here is another time manipulation spot you have never heard of in the past 4 seasons" would just be disappointing writing.

And again, I think an actual time machine is just so cliché, and a frankly lazy deus ex machina cop-out for the writers that I can't believe one of the best written shows on TV would resort to it. Plus, we have had the build up about the orchid station , and the big reveal (the wheel at the end of season 4) and the fallout - the havoc it has brought to the island. At this point I think it would seem strange to double back down the time-road, instead of coming up with a fresh, less obvious explanation.

No, I have faith that the writers and going to answer the Richard-never-ages question with a more surprising, less direct, more thought provoking answer.

just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 27, 2009, 05:39:08 PM
except that all the foreshadowing around dharma and time manipulation (the rabbits etc) were related to Dharma's Orchid station. Thats where they were doing their research, and that was the focus of our speculation. We found out what was there. It wasn't a traditional Doctor Who time machine. It was the wheel, which does seem to manipulate time somehow in order to move the island. If we were going to come across a Lost version of the TARDAS, wouldn't it have been logical to find it at the Orchid station after all that foreshadowing? I think we have found the island's "time manipulation device" - The wheel. I find it hard to believe that we are going to stumble across another room down there under the Orchid with a Tardas police box in it.

But you might say "it might be somewhere else". But all the time related foreshadowing has revolved around the Orchid. For them to go now "well over here is another time manipulation spot you have never heard of in the past 4 seasons" would just be disappointing writing.

And again, I think an actual time machine is just so cliché, and a frankly lazy deus ex machina cop-out for the writers that I can't believe one of the best written shows on TV would resort to it. Plus, we have had the build up about the orchid station , and the big reveal (the wheel at the end of season 4) and the fallout - the havoc it has brought to the island. At this point I think it would seem strange to double back down the time-road, instead of coming up with a fresh, less obvious explanation.

No, I have faith that the writers and going to answer the Richard-never-ages question with a more surprising, less direct, more thought provoking answer
just my 2 cents.

I don't think , when we say ,(well at least when I say )that I think Richard time travels, I don't envision him getting in a little box/car like object with flashing lights and buttons all over strapping himself in and counting down till take off!  but they sure do know a lot about time travel  considering they never did it before! you don't think that Mrs Hawking could have told Ben  to send Richard to see john on so and so day, so and so  time ,and he only has this much time before he goes back?  ( I would never say I'm positive about anything that i don't have 100% proof of)  I'm not swearing on it but I just believe it is possible.  Would I be open for a better explanation , heck yeah ,sure why not?
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: jugdish on January 27, 2009, 07:24:51 PM
Ben learned all about the island from the Others. Dharma was not using the donkey wheel, just the properties around the area. The Others appear to have all the knowledge about the island. So anything is possible with Richard and time travel.

(that is why I was hoping against time travel the whole time!!)
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: PrincessLeia on January 27, 2009, 07:25:40 PM
I don't see the wheel itself as THE means by which time travel is possible.  From the Orchid orientation film- "The unique properties of this island have created a kind of Casimir effect, allowing the DHARMA initiative to conduct unique experiments in both space and time.

This is the vault, constructed adjacent to a pocket of what we believe to be negatively charged "exotic matter". Great care must be taken to avoid leaving inorganic materials inside the chamber. The electromagnetic energy within the Island can be highly volatile and unpredictable."

The entire Island holds the unique properties, & I would think that the natives would understand how to utilize them.  "Only fools are enslaved in time & space" seems to indicate that the Others do have the ability to jump around somehow (Harper, Walt, Richard, etc.).  Turning the wheel wasn't necessary until the entire Island needed to be dislodged from the timeline.





crap- Juggy posted his while I was typing. lol
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 28, 2009, 12:58:38 PM
lol, don't you hate when that happeneds!  :D especially when you are saying the same thing.

thanks, you guys put it more eloquently than i did but pretty much we are on the same page.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Alex2000 on January 28, 2009, 11:57:44 PM
ho ho ho!!

Vindication! You see 5x03 - Jughead? Sorry, but I just had to post here to gloat a little.

Juliet said Richard was "very old". And all that we learned fit in perfectly with what I posted before:

1) Locke is timeshifted back to the early 50s. (It might have already happened. Don't you think that the uniforms and weapons of the soldiers that Juliet, Sawyer and finally Locke were fighting looked like they were WW2 era?). Locke tells Richard to help him in the (very) distant future with his wound.

2) Locke meets Richard for the "first" time (keeping in mind that Richard doesn't age). Using the compass to prove who he is (somehow).
   Richard visits Locke as a baby in 1956 then again as a child in 1961 where the compass is one of the items shown to him.

3) Locke and the 815ers are time skipped.[Pre-Oceanic 815 Crash, but Post-Dharma genocide and Ben's takeover]Sawyer and the 815ers leave the beach where their camp will be in the future. Locke sees the drug plane (with Eko's brother on it) crash into the island. He goes to the crash site. Locke appears before Ethan (who doesn't know Locke yet) who then confronts him. Ethan would obviously tell Richard about this encounter (confirming what Locke told Richard in the "past").

4) Oceanic 815 Crashes, events of season 1 to 4 take place, Locke takes over the others. 

5) Ben turns wheel, things go nuts, Richard watches the crashed plane site for the "foretold" appearance of the wounded Locke.


Come on, I was bang on. Someone show me some love.  ;D
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 29, 2009, 03:22:45 AM
lol, I thought about this convo when she said that too! So you got much props!
BUT, I'm still not too sure of the timeline.( or the one that is in the link above). (I'll explain) also, when you said Richard would go back in time and do the test I couldn't see that happening but I could see him doing it this way now. now I see, it wasn't Richard going back in time. it just didn't happen yet. and it was Locke going to the past! amazing tptb are! but I'm confused now. cause now it seems like time is in a loop. Locke is the chosen one now, because Locke told Richard he is in the past?! but then how did he become the chosen one before he told Richard he was. ugh.   ???

http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=8393.msg491834#msg491834
and then I have mine.......which I'll post after this... and you will see why I say this.

(I just realized your timeline and the one i was talking about were two totally different  "timeline subjects" but you could tell me what you think of it anyway  :-\ )
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 29, 2009, 03:32:10 AM
(this is a post I posted in another thread)

OK, this got me second guessing myself. So I went back and watched it again, which I do anyway before I watch the next new one, and I know it's hard enough to figure out the things we haven't got the facts for but it's even harder when you don't have the facts that we do have right. So this is the facts that we have now...

1) 3 yrs ago, the first flash, when the island is moved. John See's the plane crash. Ethan shoots John. (proof it's the past ) The beach camp is gone.  So it's pre 815 crash. PAST.

2) Next flash , the Hatch is already blown up. the Beachcraft is on the ground. All we know is that it's after the 815 crash..... BUT.....  If it was in the future , the o6 still didn't come back to the island yet, John still has to visit the o6 off the island like Richard said himself , and he still didn't die after trying to recruit the o6 to come back. in the future he is Dead off the island. And the time jumps are still happening. SO, that leads me to believe this is still the PAST.
Revised and biggest reason I think the above link is wrong about #2 is that the statues that the cocaine was in that charlie was using, were still in the beachcraft. If it was after or way after they found it, charlie and Locke would have taken all the statues out of it.Btwn charlie using and hidding most of them and Locke doing whatever he did with them, there was none left in the beachcraft . so it had to be way way before charlie died.
 
3) Beach craft is back up on the slope. The Hatch is there (but still covered) Desmond is still in Hatch. Beach camp not there yet. So pre 815 crash. PAST


I didn't look up the dates to go with all this like the link above but I think I'm right about #2 being in the past and not the future. Does anyone agree?
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: PrincessLeia on January 29, 2009, 11:28:00 PM
ho ho ho!!

Vindication! You see 5x03 - Jughead? Sorry, but I just had to post here to gloat a little.

Juliet said Richard was "very old". And all that we learned fit in perfectly with what I posted before:

1) Locke is timeshifted back to the early 50s. (It might have already happened. Don't you think that the uniforms and weapons of the soldiers that Juliet, Sawyer and finally Locke were fighting looked like they were WW2 era?). Locke tells Richard to help him in the (very) distant future with his wound.

2) Locke meets Richard for the "first" time (keeping in mind that Richard doesn't age). Using the compass to prove who he is (somehow).
   Richard visits Locke as a baby in 1956 then again as a child in 1961 where the compass is one of the items shown to him.

3) Locke and the 815ers are time skipped.[Pre-Oceanic 815 Crash, but Post-Dharma genocide and Ben's takeover]Sawyer and the 815ers leave the beach where their camp will be in the future. Locke sees the drug plane (with Eko's brother on it) crash into the island. He goes to the crash site. Locke appears before Ethan (who doesn't know Locke yet) who then confronts him. Ethan would obviously tell Richard about this encounter (confirming what Locke told Richard in the "past").

4) Oceanic 815 Crashes, events of season 1 to 4 take place, Locke takes over the others. 

5) Ben turns wheel, things go nuts, Richard watches the crashed plane site for the "foretold" appearance of the wounded Locke.


Come on, I was bang on. Someone show me some love.  ;D
You rock. :-*

(this is a post I posted in another thread)

OK, this got me second guessing myself. So I went back and watched it again, which I do anyway before I watch the next new one, and I know it's hard enough to figure out the things we haven't got the facts for but it's even harder when you don't have the facts that we do have right. So this is the facts that we have now...

1) 3 yrs ago, the first flash, when the island is moved. John See's the plane crash. Ethan shoots John. (proof it's the past ) The beach camp is gone.  So it's pre 815 crash. PAST.

2) Next flash , the Hatch is already blown up. the Beachcraft is on the ground. All we know is that it's after the 815 crash..... BUT.....  If it was in the future , the o6 still didn't come back to the island yet, John still has to visit the o6 off the island like Richard said himself , and he still didn't die after trying to recruit the o6 to come back. in the future he is Dead off the island. And the time jumps are still happening. SO, that leads me to believe this is still the PAST.
Revised and biggest reason I think the above link is wrong about #2 is that the statues that the cocaine was in that charlie was using, were still in the beachcraft. If it was after or way after they found it, charlie and Locke would have taken all the statues out of it.Btwn charlie using and hidding most of them and Locke doing whatever he did with them, there was none left in the beachcraft . so it had to be way way before charlie died.
 
3) Beach craft is back up on the slope. The Hatch is there (but still covered) Desmond is still in Hatch. Beach camp not there yet. So pre 815 crash. PAST


I didn't look up the dates to go with all this like the link above but I think I'm right about #2 being in the past and not the future. Does anyone agree?
I think this is right!
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on January 29, 2009, 11:46:01 PM
(this is a post I posted in another thread)

OK, this got me second guessing myself. So I went back and watched it again, which I do anyway before I watch the next new one, and I know it's hard enough to figure out the things we haven't got the facts for but it's even harder when you don't have the facts that we do have right. So this is the facts that we have now...

1) 3 yrs ago, the first flash, when the island is moved. John See's the plane crash. Ethan shoots John. (proof it's the past ) The beach camp is gone.  So it's pre 815 crash. PAST.

2) Next flash , the Hatch is already blown up. the Beachcraft is on the ground. All we know is that it's after the 815 crash..... BUT.....  If it was in the future , the o6 still didn't come back to the island yet, John still has to visit the o6 off the island like Richard said himself , and he still didn't die after trying to recruit the o6 to come back. in the future he is Dead off the island. And the time jumps are still happening. SO, that leads me to believe this is still the PAST.
Revised and biggest reason I think the above link is wrong about #2 is that the statues that the cocaine was in that charlie was using, were still in the beachcraft. If it was after or way after they found it, charlie and Locke would have taken all the statues out of it.Btwn charlie using and hidding most of them and Locke doing whatever he did with them, there was none left in the beachcraft . so it had to be way way before charlie died.
 
3) Beach craft is back up on the slope. The Hatch is there (but still covered) Desmond is still in Hatch. Beach camp not there yet. So pre 815 crash. PAST


I didn't look up the dates to go with all this like the link above but I think I'm right about #2 being in the past and not the future. Does anyone agree?

I don't think Charlie or Locke took all the statues out of the beach craft. And the plane looked pretty banged up, over-grown with jungle foliage and whatnot, and the body inside was mostly skeleton and looked kinda burnt. If Richard found Locke shot by Ethan in the past, it would have to have been after Eko burned the plane and the body (bodies?) inside.
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 30, 2009, 08:36:01 PM
(this is a post I posted in another thread)

OK, this got me second guessing myself. So I went back and watched it again, which I do anyway before I watch the next new one, and I know it's hard enough to figure out the things we haven't got the facts for but it's even harder when you don't have the facts that we do have right. So this is the facts that we have now...

1) 3 yrs ago, the first flash, when the island is moved. John See's the plane crash. Ethan shoots John. (proof it's the past ) The beach camp is gone.  So it's pre 815 crash. PAST.

2) Next flash , the Hatch is already blown up. the Beachcraft is on the ground. All we know is that it's after the 815 crash..... BUT.....  If it was in the future , the o6 still didn't come back to the island yet, John still has to visit the o6 off the island like Richard said himself , and he still didn't die after trying to recruit the o6 to come back. in the future he is Dead off the island. And the time jumps are still happening. SO, that leads me to believe this is still the PAST.
Revised and biggest reason I think the above link is wrong about #2 is that the statues that the cocaine was in that charlie was using, were still in the beachcraft. If it was after or way after they found it, charlie and Locke would have taken all the statues out of it.Btwn charlie using and hidding most of them and Locke doing whatever he did with them, there was none left in the beachcraft . so it had to be way way before charlie died.
 
3) Beach craft is back up on the slope. The Hatch is there (but still covered) Desmond is still in Hatch. Beach camp not there yet. So pre 815 crash. PAST


I didn't look up the dates to go with all this like the link above but I think I'm right about #2 being in the past and not the future. Does anyone agree?

I don't think Charlie or Locke took all the statues out of the beach craft. And the plane looked pretty banged up, over-grown with jungle foliage and whatnot, and the body inside was mostly skeleton and looked kinda burnt. If Richard found Locke shot by Ethan in the past, it would have to have been after Eko burned the plane and the body (bodies?) inside.

sorry but the seat belt would have been burned too if the plane was set on fire. (the one he pulled off to make a tourniquet) :-\ (at least I would THINK)
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on January 30, 2009, 11:32:37 PM

sorry but the seat belt would have been burned too if the plane was set on fire. (the one he pulled off to make a tourniquet) :-\ (at least I would THINK)

hmmm... in "The Cost of Living," Eko goes back to the burned plane, and there are Virgin Mary statues still intact inside the plane, along with some other junk. Possibly the makeshift-tourniquet was unburned as well? Also, the rock that Locke rests against is just where Eko & Locke moved it in that same episode...though it could have been there before he lit up the plane. Maybe there'll be a definitive answer in an upcoming episode...
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 31, 2009, 04:16:19 AM

sorry but the seat belt would have been burned too if the plane was set on fire. (the one he pulled off to make a tourniquet) :-\ (at least I would THINK)

hmmm... in "The Cost of Living," Eko goes back to the burned plane, and there are Virgin Mary statues still intact inside the plane, along with some other junk. Possibly the makeshift-tourniquet was unburned as well? Also, the rock that Locke rests against is just where Eko & Locke moved it in that same episode...though it could have been there before he lit up the plane. Maybe there'll be a definitive answer in an upcoming episode...

I hope so but i doubt it will be anytime soon.  Maybe it is possible. like you said about the rock, they did  moved rocks to get yemi out but he wasn't in there. so maybe the rocks can help. I'll have to check out the "cost of living" again just to satisfy my curiosity. (along with a few other episodes like psalm 23 and some others.) oh well,If I can't figure it out by then I'll just wait for the answer from a future episode (pout  :'( )
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on January 31, 2009, 01:23:32 PM

I hope so but i doubt it will be anytime soon.  Maybe it is possible. like you said about the rock, they did  moved rocks to get yemi out but he wasn't in there. so maybe the rocks can help. I'll have to check out the "cost of living" again just to satisfy my curiosity. (along with a few other episodes like psalm 23 and some others.) oh well,If I can't figure it out by then I'll just wait for the answer from a future episode (pout  :'( )

lol, I was just thinking, "You know you're a true Lost fan if you're looking for answers you know haven't been answered yet by re-watching at least a dozen episodes from every previous season..." I'm glad I'm not the only one who does this.  :)
Title: Re: Locke not Knowing Richard
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 31, 2009, 02:04:42 PM
You are SO not the only one who does that! 8) So don't you worry! ;)