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Messages - qgardens

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1981
Episode 4x12 / Re: the others
« on: May 20, 2008, 09:09:36 PM »
I wonder to what extent he's [Richard] playing the good lieutenant, following Ben's orders in this time of war?

Richard is following Ben's orders?  I may not be as versed in the nuances of the story as the rest of y'all, but in my book, Ben is following Richard's orders whether he knows it or not.  So is John.

Welcome, QGardens!  In my opinion the pecking order on display in "The Man Behind the Curtain" really does not show Ben answering to Richard.  What about their relationship makes you think that Richard is calling the shots?

I deffinitely do not feel this either, but I am intrigued.
Laklost and Bob:  Thank you for the welcome.  Without going and re-watching TMBTC (and yes, I probably will), I respond:  First, my thoughts on Richard being "above" Ben in the scheme of things:  I perceive that Richard already "existed" on the island, in time, what have you, before Ben, and Richard is the key to the island's mysteries.  After all, Richard is the one who reached out to/sought out both Ben and John, two of the people who he knows have the strongest connection with the island.  I can't see that Ben alone realized the magic and the mystery of the island before anyone else did.  There is also too much we don't know about Richard yet; maybe I missed some bits on Richard, but he's still a huge enigma to me. Either way, whether Richard or Ben calls the shots, we just haven't been shown everything yet about that distribution of power; for example (correct me if I missed it) the "real" reason Richard gave Ben to convince him to orchestrate the purge.  Just like Ben isn't being "completely truthful" with those around him, so it goes what we, the audience, have seen thus far is not the "complete truth".  Then I add in fact that Ben likes to feel "in control".  Fine.  He wants to be in control, Richard will let him think he's in control.  I see Ben as being manipulated (by either/and/or Richard/other players) in the same way he's manipulating others into thinking they are making their own decisions (Sawyer killing Cooper, Sayid killing Nadia's assassin, and  most of all, John).

That said, I will reiterate that I am not nor do I claim to be as versed in the intricacies of every epi - that's what makes the show interesting and reading the board so enjoyable for me.  I read the theories and commentary, but that's just it: I read it, I think about it, and I move on with my own perception. I perceive that despite what we've seen so far, Richard is calling the shots.  If I'm way off base, so be it:  that just means the reveals are that much sweeter.   You can counter that it's easy to dig out The Truth from what we are being shown via episodes, interactive websites, podcasts, the myriad of mathematical and scientific references, etc.  Fine also. I don't have the time or interest to follow those or to analyze every detail of the episodes.  But I also don't knock the analysis presented here on the board - on the contrary, I defer to those whose participation is more active than mine. But if I allowed myself to hold everything that everyone else thinks as gospel, I'd be bored - there would be no wonder and none of those stunning payoffs.  I don't really mind if I'm wrong about this - when it comes down to it, my experience of it is in between my own ears.  Reading the board enhances it and makes me go "hmm", but it doesn't change the show's meaning for me.  I've been painfully wrong in my guesses before (anyone remember my guest post that referenced The Secret of NIMH with re to the dog in the painting?), but there are days when I feel I'm on the right track in agreeing with some of the discussion (the Odyssean qualities of the Des/Pen story for one).  Isn't that what discussion is all about?  It isn't a race to crack the secrets of the story before the series concludes...at least for me.  Why keep watching if I know all the answers? 

1982
Episode 4x12 / Re: the others
« on: May 19, 2008, 11:18:51 PM »
I wonder to what extent he's [Richard] playing the good lieutenant, following Ben's orders in this time of war?

Richard is following Ben's orders?  I may not be as versed in the nuances of the story as the rest of y'all, but in my book, Ben is following Richard's orders whether he knows it or not.  So is John.

1983
Episode 4x09 / Re: Why Sayid is working for Ben
« on: April 25, 2008, 11:57:24 AM »
That is setting us up for a nice show down with Desmond and Ben over Penny.

If Desmonds survives.

...which is what I hope is coming.  Frankly, I've become satisfied with or lost most interest in the direction of many of the storylines, but this season has piqued my interest in the Desmond-Penny story.  "The Constant" wasn't about Des being Miles' constant, it was about Pen being Des', but even more about love being a true, if not always solid, constant in the world.  I think the love between Des & Pen is the most true and honest represented on the show.  Everyone else has some form of awful little secret s/he is (or feels) forced to hide, and then there's Ben, the master of secrets and manipulation.  A showdown 'twixt Ben and Des over Pen would really be a battle of unconditional love against (choose your evil force).   

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