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Messages - nomteticus

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31
Episode 6x14 / Re: wow wow wow
« on: May 12, 2010, 08:00:28 PM »
Look, we don't know for sure that Smokey isn't just a vehicle for Jacob's brother soul. There is no evidence to support that theory. On the contrary, since Jacob's brother couldn't be killed by Jacob. Maybe the two entities fused, but there is still some part of Jacob's brother that lives on in Smokey. Smokey obviously feels resentment towards Jacob and his crazy mother, and that can't be just because he stole the memories. The feelings are there. He rejoiced while Ben was killing Jacob since he finally had his revenge. Smokey would only have good words for Jacob, since JACOB CREATED SMOKEY, and not resentment.

I like the parallel to Doctor Manhattan made earlier in this thread, I also found their stories to be similar. A normal guy morphed into an indistructible all-powerful being after some unusual circumstances (physics experiment vs light cave). Was Doctor Manhattan evil? Not really. MIB is like The Elephant Man, hated by everyone. He did do his share of killings, but only as an end to a means, the means being escaping. Once free, I don't think he would unleash hell. What if he just wants to live a normal life as Locke for 40 years or so and then just die? What's evil in that?

Oh, and if Jacob doesn't want people touching his precious light, he better not bring more people to the island! I mean wtf is he thinking? He is the source of all evil: he refused to leave his crazy mom and go with his brother, he trapped (yes, trapped, not killed) his brother into Smokey, he probably brought his own killer to the island (Ben+Locke), and for what? To prove a point? Jacob is really the less intelligent of the twins.

32
Episode 6x14 / Re: MIB's the GOOD GUY now...
« on: May 12, 2010, 07:45:27 PM »
I assumed that MIBs remark to jacob about his people being bad/corrupt/destructive was because he wanted to leave and his family (im assuming his dad was shipwrecked too) /friends were travelling to a new world to start a new life and just wanted to set up camp to live out days ( not look for rescue or a way off)...

It must have been quite a culture shock for him to see the settlement.  He has lived his whole life under his mother's wing.  Mom was rearing them up to be possible protectors after her reign was over.  (What did one snowman say to the other snowman?)  They lived a life that was sheltered.  It was probably surprising to see a society where people get drunk, fights break out, people fish for their own fish etc.  I guess he was so ready to see the bad in humanity (thanks, mom!) he over looked a lot of the good.  He did touch on their thirst for knowledge, their curiosity.  After what we saw it's pretty easy to see why maybe Jacob hates technology!

Great reasoning. The best part of the episode for me is the children asking Mother "what's a ship?", "what's dead?" or "what's across the sea"?
MIB's only crime is being curious. His mother was acting almost like that Austrian psycho Fritzl (except for the raping part), keeping the kids away from the light (and I'm not talking about the cave here). The 'knowledge is bad' state of mind seems to have infected Mother and then Jacob. The episode was great at character level (that Titus guy can sure act, and his motives really made sense) but partially failed at mythological level by explaining everything with "it's magic", "you can make your own rules" etc.

33
Episode 6x14 / Re: Oh Happy Day
« on: May 12, 2010, 07:34:16 PM »
If he would be allowed to leave, he could become some sort of Doctor Manhattan from Watchmen. Manhattan could kill all humanity within the blink of an eye, but he chose the good path (or at least what he thought was the good path). So why would Jacob assume that he's "evil incarnate"? I think Jacob is just being selfish/jealous.

34
Episode 6x14 / Re: MIB's real name is
« on: May 12, 2010, 07:29:42 PM »
I don't think he actually had a name. I'm not sure if Mother is actually human. She appears to have no name, so she probably didn't feel MIB should have one. If it was for her, even Jacob would probably not have a name, but she owned the real mother at least that.

P.S. What is the latin form of "Jacob"? Because that's Jacob's actual name.

35
Episode 6x14 / Re: Oh Happy Day
« on: May 12, 2010, 03:22:26 AM »
This episode had its flaws, but at least it gave us something to theorize/argue about. The discussions from the last episodes were too one-dimensional (Jacob good, MIB evil) since the writers didn't give us enough fuel (now I love Libby, but who cared about her ALT showup that gave no answers whatsoever as to why she was in the looney house back in s2 and the whole boat thing).

36
Episode 6x14 / Re: MIB's the GOOD GUY now...
« on: May 12, 2010, 03:15:20 AM »
Well if Jacob wouldn't have thrown his brotha into the caves, and instead would have just let him go, there would be noone to protect the island from. And Jacob (not Smokey) constantly brings new people to the island helping Smokey create that loophole. And he dies like a wimp. He's not a very good protector, now is he?

37
Episode 6x14 / Re: MIB's the GOOD GUY now...
« on: May 12, 2010, 02:59:15 AM »
There is a way around this though: Jacob's brother fused with Smokey, and while Jacob's bro is not evil, Smokey is, and even if Flocke just wants to leave, he has to bring Smokey with him and will accidentally cause the end of the world. I think this is a ****ty explanation, but it would make sense.

38
Episode 6x14 / Re: Time of Jacob & MIB's birth
« on: May 12, 2010, 02:55:33 AM »
I thought of that too, but still, it had to have been post 1000AD if people could build ships that can cross oceans. And the Roman Empire was in its peak much earlier. But maybe I don't know my history.

39
Episode 6x14 / Re: MIB's the GOOD GUY now...
« on: May 12, 2010, 02:52:14 AM »
Jacob's brother can't be dead, since his mother apparently made it out so Jacob could not kill him. So that would be a contradiction. And we know John Locke is dead, even though Smokey inhabits his body and has memories of him. So the only way this makes sense is that Smokey is Jacob's brother and he's not allowed to leave for the same reason that Titus-MIB wasn't allowed to leave (his mother was CRAZY). And if Jacob's brother is truly dead, please don't tell me that Jacob didn't kill him. If you throw someone into a pond, sure, the water kills him, not you, but you can say the same thing about bullets. So

1) either Jacob killed his brother by throwing him into the light, and Smokey is not his bro, but that's impossible since Jacob can't kill Brother
2) Jacob turned MIB into Smokey, so Smokey is still his brother

"I had a crazy mother" CHECK
"I was a person" CHECK
"People are evil, corrupt" CHECK
"I want to go home" CHECK
"I can't kill you" (because of mom's curse) "and I have to find a loophole" CHECK
"I'll kill the candidates too" CHECK

edit: CaseyMac, that's just what I'm saying!

40
Episode 6x14 / Time of Jacob & MIB's birth
« on: May 12, 2010, 02:43:10 AM »
I am very courious about one thing: what year (or at least what period) did the ship with Jacob & MIB's mother crash on the island?
Since they were speaking a rather American English and there were ships big enough to cross the ocean, I assume it was not too far away from when the Black Rock crashed. If so, why the latin? And what about those egyptians???

41
Episode 6x14 / Re: Apparition of the real mother
« on: May 12, 2010, 02:40:43 AM »
Yeah, I think she's a "whisper" sort-of.

42
Episode 6x14 / Re: Oh Happy Day
« on: May 12, 2010, 02:37:19 AM »
Yeah! Remember last week's posts? Remember the word 'idiot' being thrown around?
Nice to know the dokey wheel is turning. Oppgelost, where are you? We need a victory dance!

43
Episode 6x14 / Re: Mommy Issues
« on: May 12, 2010, 02:34:43 AM »
Maybe she did, but later. How else would we explain the carnage?

44
Episode 6x14 / Re: MIB's the GOOD GUY now...
« on: May 12, 2010, 02:32:48 AM »
I'm not sure Jacob is good, but he certainly believes he is good. His mother told him, and since he loved her more than anything and wanted her approval (he didn't even despise her for killing his real mom) he grew to believe that he was in fact protecting the island. He killed his brother by impulse, that doesn't really make him evil. Neither does his brother killing the crazy lady, it was clear that he was sorry afterwords.

I don't think that MIB is no longer Jacob's brother. In the discussiions he had with Jacob AFTER becoming Smokey he expressed the same contempt for people he did back when he was in the village and the same desire to leave. Smokey/Jacob's Brother/Locke has been very sincere (crazy mother, he wants to go home, the island doesn't need protecting) as to the ends, just not about the means (killing the candidates). I know I would kill the candidates if they told me I couldn't leave for no apparent reason.

Why wouldn't MIB's mother let him leave? I think it's because he really wanted him and not Jacob to become the new protector, and she was blinded by this. Letting MIB leave would not have been a problem, since a)there was Jacob to fill up the "sucker" position and b)Smokey wasn't unleashed. Was his mother afraid that MIB would return to the island with other people to get the light??? NEWSFLASH: Jacob is the one constantly bringing people to the island. And we saw what happens when you go into the light, so rationally speaking, why would the island need protecting??? Now I know that Egyptians believed that if they don't follow certain rituals every morning the sun won't come up (lol), but apart from that, protect it from what?

45
Episode 6x14 / Re: MIB's real name is
« on: May 12, 2010, 02:19:51 AM »
In the PC game Planescape:Torment the main character is called "The Nameless One", but that's because he has amnesia because of constantly dying and being ressurected.
Jacob's brother, on the other hand was just a normal boy, until Jacob Smokyfied him. So he had to have had a name. It just seems like there is no reason for him not being named, just another artificial mystery.

I like "dude" very much, but I also like Murray.
"Can I call you Bob?"
"NO! YOU MAY CALL ME MURRAY, harvester of souls..." (quoting from memory from Monkey Island, since Lost does seem to be about the same island)

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