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Messages - dcnole

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31
Episode 3x15 / Re: Sawyer making nice
« on: April 05, 2007, 01:17:30 AM »
I get the point of what Hurley was doing, but here's what bothers me.  SAWYER IS A CON MAN.  Now, I know he's projecting this curmudgeonly, antisocial, "I'm only looking out for me, but I'll begrudgingly show affection for others because despite myself I want to be part of the team" demeanor, and maybe that's his true nature.  But, SAWYER IS A CON MAN.  What is it that con men do?  Oh, right, they get people to like and trust them.  But that's a huge chore for Sawyer, getting people to like and trust him.  He just doesn't have a clue how to do that.  Oh, wait, I forgot SAWYER IS A CON MAN. 

Not saying there's anything significant about this.  Just really bugged me.  Although it was endearing watching Sawyer be all awkward around Claire and really wanting to be part of the group.  He's not such a bad guy after all...DOH!!! HAVE I BEEN CONNED? :)
I think the point of that was that Sawyer lacked motivation. When he has his eye on the prize ($$$$$) he is smooth as silk. But simple human interactions are tough for him when he has no cash incentive.  He's way out of his element in that regard.  Especially since they know he's pretty much a sleaze. Hard to con people who don't trust you and have seen your true colors. 

Beyond that, I really wouldn't waste time being bothered by this. The point of the little storyline was obvious, not very important, and fun to watch. 

32
Do you watch the same Lost that I do.  Because the one I watch does not have anyone tell anyone anything.
Of course. But that's my point. There always seems to be some reason. Like last week, they threw in that line from Tom about people listening in, so that Jack wouldnt be able to dish dirt to Kate. This week, Locke was in the same boat, knowing he was leaving with the Others and not wanting to cross them.  The Others themselves all seem secretive and we sort of have to believe they won't talk to the castaways. In the past, Michael saw them, but he was working for them, etc.  But this seems to be the first time in a while that someone with a ton of info we haven't been privy to is in a position to spill it with no reprecussion and should have the will to do so. That's why I said "if the writers are fair".  To concoct a way to prevent Jack from spilling the beans would be pretty lame at this juncture.

33
I know we've said this 100 times, but next week seems like an episode that has to be packed with new info. Jack has spent a lot of time with the Others. He has talked to a lot of people, including some of the tail section captives, perhaps. He has all sorts of personal knowledge of how they were living. He has to have learned something interesting related to how they go back and forth between the two islands.  When Jack talked to Kate 2 weeks ago right before leaving, the viewer was forced to believe that he couldnt talk to her in detail because they were listening in.  Now, he should be ready to talk.

Juliet may or may not be forthcoming and may or may not be honest if she is, but if the writers are fair, we should learn a great deal from Jack. 

34
Episode 3x15 / Re: Can Juliet Be Trusted?
« on: April 05, 2007, 12:43:56 AM »
From their perspective, they certainly should not trust her.  Her being a plant fits perfectly with past Others tactics. But if I had to guess, I'm betting she's actually mostly on the level right now. Sure, she's hiding all sorts of stuff. But I do believe she's been 'cast out'.

35
Episode 3x13 / Re: the hallway that locke walks down with ben..
« on: March 22, 2007, 03:29:11 AM »
It may be the same set shot at a different angle (I don't feel like going back and looking), but it is obviously not the same place in the context of the show.  It couldn't be more clear that the first scene takes place in Miami. Juliet doesn't even know about the island when that scene takes place.  We see her walking around Miami before and after that scene. We see Ethan in her hospital in Miami.  In the scene immediately after seeing Ethan when Juliet is talking to her sister, we see the Miami sky-scape outside the apartment window.

36
Episode 3x13 / Re: Tom warning Jack
« on: March 22, 2007, 02:21:29 AM »
My immediate reaction was simply that Tom's warning served as a really convenient way to prevent Jack from telling Kate (and by extension, us the viewer) what the hell is going on. 

It's possible there was some deeper meaning related to the inner dynamics of the Others, but I'm not so sure.

37
It's from episode 18 of season one... I just checked and both of them are in california, hurley and locke.... but the timeline thing might actually be a problem...
i don't know when Hurley got the money.. but he must have had it for a while cause he seems pretty established and wealthy in his last episode flashbacks.... who knows...


Yeah, this is what I'm talking about. Not only must he have won it at least 4 years earlier, but it had to be a good bit further back than that.  He had already bought his mom a house and had it burn down, and he had already had his lawyer buy Locke's box factory (the exact topic of discussion at the time the guy goes flying by, if I recall).  So we're probably talking about 5 years.  That seems too long. But again, who knows.

38
I had this same thought, but I am not sure if the timeline matches up.  Locke was in a wheel chair for 4 years they said.  I never got the sense Hurley won his money that long prior to the crash.  Maybe I'm wrong though. It certainly would be a cool connection if true.

39
Stick with me here.  We've seen Kate see the dead agent walking around.  We've seen Jack see Jack's dad. We've seen Rose see Bernard when Bernard was nowhere near the front section beach.  We saw Eko see Yemi.  All of these things are questionable, none have been seen by anyone else.  You may or may not be able to add Shannon seeing Walt to that list.  In any event, the Eko episode gave us some reason to believe that the image he saw of Yemi was actually the Black Smoke Monster in another form.  Now John is seeing his father.  But you'll notice that Ben and the recruiter guy didn't interact with Locke's father. They simply opened the door and allowed Locke to walk in and see what he saw.  Is it possible that it's actually the Smoke Monster? And that every time we've seen someone wandering around who shouldnt have been on the island, it was actually the same smoke monster merely taking different forms? Or even simply reflecting what the person gazing upon it wanted to see?

It is certainly possible that the Others simply sent someone to go get Locke's dad and bring him back to the island for the purposes of using his presence to con Locke in one way or another.  But I'm wondering if something more mystical is at play.

40
Episode 3x13 / Re: Magic Box
« on: March 22, 2007, 12:18:34 AM »
i just think a "magic box that can make your dreams come true" is a pretty weak plot-fixer-upper. i'd expect more.
You are assuming this box literally exists, which seems quite presumptuous.  It may be a symbolic or metaphoric way to describe something else. It may just be a flat out lie. 

41
Episode 3x11 / Re: Patchy's Story.
« on: March 08, 2007, 02:07:03 PM »
the only evidence I have that Patchy was an other is that Ms. Klug was with him...  and she is an other.  But they all lie!!

I think it was clearly implied when he said "Why are we continuing to play this little game?" and then attacks Sayid after Sayid says that they killed one of the Others (with the intent to rile up Patchy).  There is absolutely no other way to interpret this scene, from what I can tell. 

42
Episode 3x11 / Re: Patchy's Story.
« on: March 08, 2007, 11:31:17 AM »
I think Kelvin's use of the term hostiles neither confirms not refutes that he was an Other. The term was clearly the official name given to the Others by the Dharma Initiative, as we see Marvin Candle use the term in videos.  The question I have is, if Kelvin was real Dharma: Did the Others really not know about Swan?  This seems very impractical.  They knew about Pearl, and Pearl had a direct video feed into Swan.  So if they knew about Swan, why didn't they go purge the Dharma guys living inside?  What made Swan the exception? Maybe the answer is because they needed the elctro-magnet being tended to, and since the Swan was so contained by way of the self-quarantine, that the residents didn't pose a threat.

On the other hand, if Kelvin was a fake Dharma (like Patchy), stationed at Swan to keep pressing the button which we now know for sure was important and key to off-island communication, was Kelvin going rogue? Ben didn't know about Desmond's boat.  They may not even have known about Desmond.  And it sure seemed like Kelvin was planning his own escape off the island.  But rogue or no, if Kelvin was an Other and died 3 years ago or however long it was, why didn't the Others feel the need to send a new operative to Swan?  Surely they had to have some way to make sure Kelvin was ok (Pearl observation?), and they had to be a little concerned when he didn't show back up.  I suppose it's possible they just trusted Desmond to keep doing the work. But you'd still think that they would want more direct control over the situation than to trust some Johnny-Come-Lately who washed up ashore.  After all, Desmond didn't know how important his task was beyond Kelvin's vague statements about saving the world.  How could the Others be so sure he wouldnt lose interest? 

We certainly have some new questions about what was going on at Swan. 

43
Episode 3x11 / Re: Episode got me thinking... a lot...
« on: March 08, 2007, 10:59:55 AM »
A few responses to mindsparkle.

1) I don't think they just instinctively trusted Dharma. I do think that they are familiar with Dharma from all the films, and Desmond.  But the reason they trusted Patchy is because of the way he immediately presented himself as if he were in conflict with the Others.  "What are you doing here. We had a deal. You said you'd leave me alone."  I don't think it is especially odd that people in a fairly desperate situation like our friendly castaways would adopt a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality to the situation.  Especially since they had all the guns once they entered the home.  What I thought was interesting about the initial Dharma discussion (before we knew he was a fraud) was that he alluded to being the last Dharma guy left. How does the Swan station fit into THAT comment?  Obviously, Desmond was alive and kicking and doing his Dharma functions until a couple months ago.  Were the Others unaware of the Swan station?  Were they leaving it alone for a reason?  Could they not get in?   And in case your instinct is that they left Desmond alone because he wasn't really Dharma, just a castaway adopted by Dharma, wonder how they knew that and why they didn't want to kill Kelvin.  After all, Kelvin had been left alone before Desmond got there.

2) As for why Patchy didn't just kill Sayid, I think that is fairly typical.  The Others motivations, especially when it comes to inflicting violence on the castaways, have never been easily understood.  I'm actually surprised he shot Sayid at all.  I think that is the harder situation to explain.  Other than Ethan attempting to hang Charlie back in Season 1, think just how few times we've seen Others be outwardly violent in response to non-violent actions by the castaways.  Don't count Pickett since he was clearly not following orders.  It's really quite rare.  My guess is he purposely shot Sayid in non-lethal location, inflicting a would that he knew he could repair, in order to keep up the illusion that he was paranoid and afraid of the Others.  Killing Sayid prior to when his cover was blown and he was backed into a corner probably wasn't in his interest. 

3) I think the toughest thing to explain last night is whether Patchy was being truthful, semi-truthful, or just outright fictitious in his story about the war between Dharma and 'the Hostiles'.  Clearly the term 'Hostiles' has some meaning beyond just Patchy's story, as we saw the pre-programed computer video mention the term as well.  What you have to wonder is that if the Dr. Candle (the Asian Dharma guy) was able to pre-program a video about Hostiles, and he filmed the video in front of what looks like the bookshelf in the downstairs barrack of the Flame Station, then is the whole conflict part of the Dharma initiative in the first place? Part of the experiment that simply went awry?

4) Assuming Danielle is who we think she is, I don't think Danielle's reaction was odd. And it definitely wasn't moralistic. Her point was that she didnt want to get into a conflict with someone and draw attention to herself. It seems the Others don't think she poses much threat since she has steered clear of them for so long and clearly hasn't shown much interest in exploring the outer reaches of the island where the Others tend not to want people to go.  I agree with you that it will be cool if she has more of a consistent role.

5) It is certainly possible Danielle is not who we think she is, though.  It does seem somewhat of a strange coincidence that she was the one to randomly catch the man who happens to be the head of the Others and the surrogate father to her daughter. And she caught him in a net, not to far from the castaway beach, as Ben was walking around alone.  I'm not sure if enough attention has been devoted to exactly what the heck was going on there that led to Ben being caught.  Why was he wandering around the island solo? Did he want to get caught? Did he get caught before or after Michael was caught (since we know Michael was released from Other custody and from the island entirely in exchange for freeing Ben)?  How did he know where Danielle's traps were?  Why would the leader go on such a dangerous undercover assignment? Why would he be so sure Danielle would hand him over to the castaways and not just kill him?  If you assume for the sake of argument that Danielle was conspiring with Ben in some way (as an Other herself, or in cooperation to get her daughter back, in a deal similar to the one Michael got), the whole thing makes a lot more sense.  Not only does it make sense of how Ben got trapped (on purpose) and how he got brought to the castaways (because he asked her to), but Ben being Alex's surrogate father makes him a logical choice to be the one to reach out to Danielle, and explains why he would have to be the one to take the risk in that situation, not someone else lower on the totem pole. 

44
Episode 3x11 / Re: Locke the hatch killer! Way to go idiot
« on: March 08, 2007, 12:34:40 AM »
I do think there is an odd contradiction in the make-up of Locke's character. In certain regards, he seems so sly and smart--almost mystically knowledgeable.  But then he'll do things like what he did today. Surely he was told or saw that the whole hatch was wired with C4 in the few hours they spent in the station after the armed conflict and before they left that evening. Did he really not make the connection that reporting a hostile takeover could initiate a self-destruct sequence?  I know I sure as heck expected it, and I doubt I'm alone.

And why on earth would he take his eye off a dangerous suspect so he could play a computer game. It's not like the game was going to turn off if he waited 5 more minutes for Kate and Sayid to emerge from below. 

45
Episode 3x11 / Re: lost is back!
« on: March 08, 2007, 12:14:59 AM »
thats very stupid that they didnt open any of the binders that explained EVERYTHING

Given that the armed confrontation took place in daylight and they didn't leave the building until after nightfall, I think we are supposed to assume that they did a pretty thorough search of the materials.  How else would they have found the map, as nothingbutsky mentioned.

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