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Messages - MachThree

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Episode 3x19 / Re: Did Ben want Cooper dead?
« on: May 03, 2007, 02:44:42 PM »
I think you're all forgetting that in "The Man From Tallahasse", Ben said to one of the other Others "Bring me the man from Tallahasse".  In this episode, Cooper says his car accident ocurred in Tallahasse.  So Ben saying that Locke caused Cooper to show up on the island is, IMHO, probably indirect or metaphorical. 

Episode 3x19 / Re: Did Ben want Cooper dead?
« on: May 03, 2007, 01:56:21 PM »
Tweedle - murdering someone seems to take you into bad person territory in the eyes of the Others - the ultimate discrediting in their eyes.   Blow up an empty submarine - well, maybe they don't agree with you, maybe they don't understand why you did it, but it probably doesn't make you fundamentally 'bad' in their eyes. 

Episode 3x19 / Re: It's NOT Hell
« on: May 03, 2007, 01:52:33 PM »
IMHO, there is a very simple explanation for Cooper thinking he is in hell.  a) he thinks Locke is dead because he "knows" 815 crashed and Locke was aboard b) he has good reason to think he's dead - major car crash and the last thing he remembers is the paramedic putting him under c) he's pretty much admitted to himself a long time ago that he's going to hell, not heaven.   

Now he wakes up to see his dead son walking around - fully healed from his irreversible paralysis mind you - and people he conned 20 years ago are confronting him on his sins.

But this in no way means that its really hell - that's just the best explanation he can come up with - I mean, one minute he's in a car crash with what he thinks are probably fatal injuries, they give him an IV, next thing he knows, he's on the island. 

Episode 3x19 / Re: Did Ben want Cooper dead?
« on: May 03, 2007, 01:41:05 PM »
I think Ben wanted Locke to kill someone, in order to discredit Locke to the other Others as a murderer and a "bad person", thus preserving Ben's mojo with the other Others.  Cooper was someone (the only one) Ben knew of that Locke would have motive to kill - that was Cooper's only purpose, IMHO.  There was nothing else about Cooper that interested him to the Others, I think. 

Episode 3x19 / Re: WHY did the Others want Cooper dead!?!
« on: May 03, 2007, 12:32:22 PM »
By the way, to Lynch's point, I think Cooper was just a means to an end for Ben - Ben wanted to discredit Locke, and by getting Locke to kill someone he would accomplish that.  Cooper was the one person Locke would have a motive to kill. 

Episode 3x19 / Re: Do you have to murder someone to be an Other...
« on: May 03, 2007, 12:29:29 PM »
Creflo - as far as having killed someone before or not, I think among the main losties there are a few borderline cases...  Jack, who as far as we know never directly killed anyone, but allowed Adam Rutherford (Shannon's father) to die while he tried to save Sara.  Also Hurley, who I think came closest when he accidently caused the balcony to collapse (I think some of the other people on the balcony died).  Then we have a few others besides Locke who as far as we know haven't killed anyone - Rose, Bernard, Sun, Jin, Charlie, the now dearly departed Shannon and Boone, etc. 

Episode 3x19 / Re: WHY did the Others want Cooper dead!?!
« on: May 03, 2007, 12:18:59 PM »
I think Richard was correct that Ben wanted to embarass (or discredit) Locke, but not in the way he said.

Ben makes a big show of trying to get Locke to kill Cooper in front of all of the other Others.  But was he trying to merely embarass Locke, knowing that Locke would wimp out in front of everyone, as Richard said, or was it deeper than that?

Remember, the others seem to think murderers are bad people.  Surely they don't want to accept them (Juliette barely escaped a bad fate after killing the Other who hated Sawyer).  Ben wants to discredit Locke in the eyes of the other Others, he just has to have Locke kill someone and make sure that the other Others know about it.

So, Ben tries to get Locke to do it in front of everyone.  If Locke had, that would have been best for Ben.  Everyone saw him do it.  But even if Locke doesn't kill him in front of everyone, Ben thinks Locke will be humiliated into doing it himself later.  That's why Ben banishes Locke and tells him not to bother coming back without the dead body.  Locke either returns to the Others as a bad person / murderer or never returns to the Others at all.  Either way, Ben's leadership / credibility issue with the other Others is resolved.  

Episode 3x18 / Ok, so just who is Jin's real dad?
« on: April 26, 2007, 12:28:34 PM »
I haven't had a chance yet to read through all of the other threads on last night's episode, so sorry if my musings have already been discussed...

It seems like the producers just opened up the possibility that Jin's real dad is not the kindly old fisherman that Jin believed was his father his entire life.  Ok, it still could be, but even the fisherman is unsure.  So my question is, if the fisherman is not Jin's biological father, than who?  Father issues seem to play too much of a role on this show not to wonder...

And that leads me to an interesting possibility...what if, back in his wilder days, Sun's dad engaged the services of Jin's mom, who, after all, had "been with many men".  Its not like the writers have ever gone down that road before ***cough*** Boone ***cough*** Shannon ***cough***, right?

Ok, granted, I don't have any real evidence of that, but it a) seems like the type of thing the producers might do, b) Jin does seem to be, ethnically, 100% Korean, and given that, c) Sun's dad is the only other character we've encountered so far that fits the bill as a possible alternate father for Jin.   

So am I nuts?  Out of my twisted, sick mind?  Or are we likely to see Jin's mom and Sun's dad in the same flashback down the road?

Also, anyone catch these three ironies revealed in Sun's flashbacks?  First, by being with more than one man, the identity of the father of Sun's son, like the identity of Jin's father, almost became a mystery.  And second, by trying to protect Jin from shame, she caused Jin to enter the part of her father's organization that ended up causing all of their marital trouble.  Finally, third, if Sun suspected the nature of her father's activities, why was she shocked, just *shocked*, when Jin started changing, coming home with blood on his shirt etc.?   

Episode 3x08 / Charlie in Des's flash(back?) - importance?
« on: February 15, 2007, 01:36:06 PM »
Just an observation.  In Desmond's flashback/forward/sideways/whatever last night, he was reliving past events with some variations from the original events.  So I post this qestion - was Charlie's presence in Des's flashback one of those variations, or was Charlie really there when those events originally happened? 

Consider this.   Suppose Charlie really wasn't there in the original events, but only shows up now as Des relives these events in his mind.  If that's the case, then Des is, for whatever reason, interjecting an element of what's happening in the present (Charlie) into his perception of his past memories. 

So I pose this question - asuming that this is what happened last night to Des, can one make the leap that this is the same thing that has been happening to all of the other characters in their flashbacks all along - that characters are interjecting aspects or people from the present into aspects of the past?  In other words, is this an explanation for why so many characters appear in other character's flashbacks?  Is the only difference that in Desmond's flashback, he is aware that something is amiss - that what he is seeing in the flashback is not quite what really happened -  while the other characters are oblivious to the differences between what really happened and what they see in the flashback?

Episode 3x08 / Re: TIME
« on: February 15, 2007, 01:01:12 PM »
I don't think that this is "out there" - I think its a good a theory as any to explain all of the wierd time things that seem to be happening in the last two episodes (if not the whole series).  

With all the "time" issues in the last few episodes, one thing that I've been thinking about is viewer's noticing that some of the items in the hatch at the start of season 2 (when we first see Desmond) don't match with the items we see in the hatch later on.  Things like the washing machine model changing from an older model to something more contemporary.  Does this suggest some sort of abnormal or other unexplained passage of time?

I thought I'd make up a list of some things that have happened on the show that might possibly relate to the passage of time and the perception of the passage of time.  None of this is meant to prove any theory, one way or another, its just food for thought...

1.  "Adam and Eve" - the two dead people in the cave - decomposed, but how long have they really been there?  How do we really know?

2.  The Black Rock - a 19th century slave ship with a load of highly unstable dynamite on board, in a unstable-dynamic unfriendly humid jungle, that never exploded for hundreds of years...

3.  Sayid's calculation that Russo set the recording 16 years ago at the radio tower - Russo herself seemed suprised that it had really been that long.

4.  Yemi's plane - it crashed long enough ago for the bodies to thoroughly decompose, yet the radio in the plane still has battery power.  

5.  A 26 year old woman has the womb of a 70 year old.  

6.  Most indications are that the Dharma project ended some time ago - yet someone or something still airdrops in supplies on a periodic basis.  Maybe time is distorted between whomever performs the airdrops and what's going on on the island - in that the people performing the airdrops still think the Dharma project is alive and well?  

7.  I don't know how much value to put into the various official websites that have sprung up vs. things that actually appear in the show, but one of the sites talked about "Joop", the oldest living gorilla in captivity.  Maybe Joop has been affected by some sort of time anomally?

8.  Desmond's inability to sail the boat away from the island - he always ended up back there.  But is that an issue of some sort of "loop in space", rather than some sort of "loop in time"?

9.  Hitting the button every 108 minutes - seems like a way where one could record the passage of time, or the perceived passage of time, relative to the passage of time somewhere else.  

10.  The music that Hurley and Sayid pick up on the short wave radio - its quite an old song - who boardcasts old music on shortwave radio in 2004 or 2005?  Did they pick up a broadcast from another time?  

11.  The ice station people report back to Penny that "it happened again".  How long has Penny been monitoring?  Certainly we've known two hatch events - when the plane crashed and when the hatch ultimately ex or imploded.  But how far apart were these two events to people on the island vs. how far apart they were to Penny?    

Minor Survivors / Question from: MachThree
« on: October 26, 2006, 02:41:33 PM »
In the episode where Rose revealed that she had cancer, did she reveal what kind of cancer that it was?  Any chance that it was her x-ray in 3x04?

Specific Episodes / Question from MachThree
« on: March 02, 2006, 02:10:41 AM »
In investigation 47, you show a shot of a dream Claire had before Ethan took her, showing a similar crib and mobile as seen in Maternity Leave.  What episode was the first dream in?

Misc. / Question from MachThree
« on: December 12, 2005, 01:45:30 PM »
You answered another question by stating that the third grave is occupied by Scott (the man who killed Ethan) - what happened to the remains of the Marshall?  Isn't the third grave his?

Character Connections / Question from MachThree
« on: November 11, 2005, 01:32:12 PM »
As far as we know, have any of the survivors pieced together their past coincidental encounters / relationships, except for Jack and Sawyer?

Main Survivors / Question from MachThree
« on: October 21, 2005, 08:25:55 PM »
You now list Kate as "Kate Dodd" - up until a few weeks ago, I think you had her as Kate Austin.  Where did the new last name come from?

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