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Messages - AstroJones

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1
Episode 5x16 / Re: Smokey and Esau
« on: May 14, 2009, 02:41:47 PM »
Okay here's my opinion and my take on a few things...

1. Perhaps all Smokey needs to "impersonate" someone is that their body be on the island.  Yemi died there, Christian died there, and Locke's dead body is there.  I also really like the idea that Richard wanted the bodies of his people back for a reason.  Perhaps that's why the Other's funeral consists of sending their dead out to sea.

2. Although I don't have a problem with Loophole Locke actually being smokey, I prefer to think of them as incahoots.  We've seen an image in the temple of Anubis (the Egyptian god of the underworld) reaching out and touching smokey (who's been referred to as Cerberus, the guardian to the gates of the underworld).  So perhaps Loophole Locke controls Smokey.  Smokey is more of a machine/guard dog/security system that the keeper of the underworld controls.  Now, in this speculation I'm not sure if its actually Smokey becoming these people, or if its Smokey collecting the information necessary for Loophole Locke to become them.  But either way works.

3. I think last night was the first time we "saw" Jacob.  Up until now, everthing we've seen was Loophole Locke manipulating things.  I think the reason Locke saw something good in the smoke at first and something bad later was simply because it was Loophole Locke manipulating him.

4. I think there's a great deal more to the loophole than we can possibly guess at this point.  But for now I'm going to go with the idea that the loophole was that Jacob could only be killed by someone who was leading him.  And I think that loophole locke manipulated the entire thing, all the way into the past, in order to set up the events so that Ben would have enough hatred for Jacob that there would be nothing Jacob could say to talk his way out of it.  Jacob, afterall, seemed like a smooth talker who could calm people down.  But there was no calming down Ben with the plan Loophole Locke had set in motion years and years before.

5. I don't think Jacob has ever been in the cabin.  I think he's been in the foot this whole time.  The proof I give for this is his tapestry, which he spent all those years making.  I think that it was Loophole Locke who was always in the cabin, and that at some point he was enslaved there by the Others with the ash circle.  He presented himself as Jacob to John when Ben first took him to the cabin, only because it was the leverage he needed.  I think that the ash did keep smokey out, but it kept smokey from breaking Loophole Locke free, instead of the other way of protecting the person inside.

6. Finally, I wanted to mention that I don't actually think that Jacob is an Egyptian god or that Loophole Locke is actually the god Anubis.  However, I do think that some of the original inhabitants on the island, obviously with Egyptian background and heritage, saw these two men as the Egyptian deities and created temples, statues, and relics in their honor. 

2
Episode 5x16 / Re: What are we going to call Jacob's "nemesis"?
« on: May 14, 2009, 01:59:09 PM »
I will also say that I refuse to adhere to the results of this survey unless the choice I voted for, Loophole Locke, wins.  :D

3
Episode 5x16 / Re: What are we going to call Jacob's "nemesis"?
« on: May 14, 2009, 01:53:15 PM »
I like Loophole Locke for no other reason that its catchy.  :)

4
For those of us heatens out here who don't read the bible, can someone explaine the story.

Here's the Cliff notes version -

Jacob and Esau were twin brothers, they were born to Isaac, who was the Son of Abraham, who is know as a great man of faith.    Jewish people trace their heritage back to Abraham through Isaac and Jacob.    Muslims on the other hand trace their heritage back to Abraham through Isaac's brother Ishmael.  Christians see themselves as part of Abraham's family by adoption.    The great promise made to Adam and Eve after original sin was that one day a Saviour would come and save the world.   That promise was carried through the generations through Abraham, Isaac, then Jacob on down through the line to Mary and Joseph.  

Jacob and Esau struggled against each other even in the womb, God told their mother that the older would serve the younger.  When they were young, Esau was hungry and sold his birthright to Jacob for a meal.    Later in life when Isaac was about to die, he wanted to bestow his blessings on his first born Esau.   He was old and his eyesight was failing.   While Esau was out hunting game to prepare for his father in preparation to recieve his blessing, his mother Rebekah cooked up a goat the way Isaac liked it, disguised Jacob as Esau, and sent him in to recieve the blessing instead.    When Esau returned, Isaac learned what had happened, but had already given his blessing to Jacob.    Jacob left the area out of fear of his brother, becomes prosperous, but eventually has a falling out with his new father in law and reluctantly heads back to the home country.    He is afraid to return because he thinks Esau will kill him.   Esau on the other hand is happy to see his brother return and runs to him.

The parallels to destiny are that God proclaimed that Jacob would be the more powerful brother before they were born and that through Jacob's offspring would eventually come the savior.   Rather than rely on faith, Jacob tried to do it the Jack way doing it on his own by hook or by crook.  In the end, he and his brother reconciled and he became a great man of faith and father to the Israelites.  

Hope that helps.
        

Not saying that you're wrong, just presenting a few differences in how I was taught this story as a child.

to me it was always presented that Esau was irresponsible and disrespected his birthright.  He cared so little about something intangible, that he freely gave it up to Jacob for a meal.  Some have said that he was starving and therefore it was wrong for Jacob to manipulate him out of his birthright in this way, but I was always taught that it was Jacob who was following God's guidance by taking a birthright away from Esau that he clearly had no respect for, and did not deserve.  Because he couldn't understand the power of something intangible, he didn't deserve it.

The next part of the story was that even though he promised that birthright to Jacob, when Isaac was ready to give his blessing to Esau, Esau didn't say a word about his deal with Jacob, essentially reversing on the agreement he had made with Jacob in the first place.  This put their mother, Rebekah in the position to help make sure Jacob received not only what he deserved, the birthright freely given to him, but also to fulfill the will of God.  Esau was very angry about this and vowed to kill his brother.

So, the comparison to Lost is this...Obviously Jacob is not the Jacob from the bible, and his rival is not Esau (we're just calling him that for lack of a better name).  But that doesn't mean there isn't a connection here.  Jacob's rival, who I'll call "Loophole Locke" from now on, wants to kill Jacob badly.  He says this as plain as day, and Jacob knows it without a doubt.  To me this gives the sense that there is a deep meaning for this, that perhaps Jacob has taken something from Loophole Locke.  Perhaps for very similar reasons to what happened to Jacob and Esau in the bible.  Maybe Loophole Locke didn't respect the island, didn't give it or mankind the credit they deserved.  He couldn't see the intangible, only what was right in front of him at the time.  So Jacob tricked him out of something.  And now Loophole John has a strong desire to not only get back what he feels is his, but he also wants to kill Jacob once and for all.

So basically I'm saying that rather than looking for how Jacob and Loophole Locke can be Jacob and Esau from the bible, maybe we should be looking at what from the biblical story might give us clues as to what the relationship and history between Jacob and Loophole Locke is.

Just my thoughts.  :)

5
Episode 5x16 / Re: A red herring... litteraly!!
« on: May 14, 2009, 01:03:25 PM »
I prefer to refer to him as "Loophole John"

6
LOST Talk / reWATCHING LOST
« on: May 13, 2009, 02:34:08 PM »
I know that some of you rarely, if ever, read the front page, so I wanted to be sure you all saw this post:
http://lost.cubit.net/archives/2009/05/rewatching-lost-this-summer-at.php

We'll be creating a place in the forums for this event as well, for any of you who wish to discuss things in more detail this summer.

7
Episode 5x16 / Re: Broadcast time and date?
« on: May 12, 2009, 10:08:15 AM »
Sorry about that.  Its all fixed now.

8
Official Polls / Episode 5x13 Ratings
« on: April 15, 2009, 06:05:01 PM »
After Episode 5x13, "Some Like It Hoth" airs, be sure to rank the episode using the scale above, and then let us know what you thought about the episode below.

9
Episode 5x13 / Screencap and Investigation Requests
« on: April 15, 2009, 06:01:25 PM »
Please post all requests for screencaps in here.  Investigations are posted on the front page of the site.

10
Episode 5x11 / Re: "What Happened, Happened" Hype Thread
« on: April 01, 2009, 07:12:48 PM »
I think you're right Mrs Hume.  I think tonight's episode is going to be the big push for us all to realize that they really can't change anything.  That Sayid always shot young Ben and all of this is happened just as it always has.

And then, in a few weeks, during the season finale, Damon and Carlton will turn our worlds upside down once again and everything they've drilled into our heads this season, about not changing anything, will be thrown into question once again.  That's my prediction.  ;)

well I'm in the you can change things camp. If you can't what is this all about and why?
but yes, I agree with your prediction 100%!!!  ;)

I have a larger prediction.  I think, right now, that they've tried so hard to show self consistency down our throat (whatever happened happened) that they will destroy that premise, in some way, in the season finale this year.  However, I think that next year, they'll shove down our throats how things ARE being changed.  But I bet you, somehow, it ends with them doing something that puts it all up in the air.  Something that suddenly makes us all go, "wait, so does that mean that they really DIDN'T change things?  Or did they?" And it'll all be over.  LOL.  I wouldn't put it past them!

11
Episode 5x11 / Re: "What Happened, Happened" Hype Thread
« on: April 01, 2009, 06:37:16 PM »
I had to tape last week's epi, and the tape ran out just as Sayid shot Ben.  I didn't get to see any previews, as they don't have them on the ABC site.  So I'll just have to be surprised.  Which I would love if they actually gave us soem answers.  THAT would surprise me!

Lostfromthestart, if you go to the front page of the site, there is a preview article about tonight's episode.  The preview that is shown on the second page of the article is the preview that aired right after last week's episode.  :)

12
Episode 5x11 / Re: "What Happened, Happened" Hype Thread
« on: April 01, 2009, 06:36:21 PM »
I think you're right Mrs Hume.  I think tonight's episode is going to be the big push for us all to realize that they really can't change anything.  That Sayid always shot young Ben and all of this is happened just as it always has.

And then, in a few weeks, during the season finale, Damon and Carlton will turn our worlds upside down once again and everything they've drilled into our heads this season, about not changing anything, will be thrown into question once again.  That's my prediction.  ;)

13
Official Polls / Episode 5x11 Ratings
« on: April 01, 2009, 06:00:44 PM »
After Episdoe 5x11, "Whatever Happened, Happened" airs, be sure to rank the episode using the scale above, and then let us know what you thought about the episode below.

14
Episode 5x11 / Investigation and Screencap Requests
« on: April 01, 2009, 05:56:39 PM »
Please request all investigations and screencaps in this thread.  Investigations will be posted on the front page of the site when they are finished.

15
Episode 5x10 / Re: Billie Holiday song on the phonograph & at the bar?
« on: March 27, 2009, 12:53:42 AM »
What makes you think that was Billie Holiday?  I'm only asking because we did some searching last night and Billie Holiday never recorded for Victor Records.  She recorded pretty exclusively for 4 record companies, but Victor wasn't mentioned. 

The song that was playing has been covered by about 50+ people.  Crazy how many people have played that song.

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