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Topics - Rebel 3:16

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Episode 6x11 / Desmond the 'Red Shirt'.....
« on: April 15, 2010, 07:39:09 PM »
This season we have seen at least Hurley and now Desmond in red shirts.

We have Jacob - White shirt, MiB, Black shirt and now Desmond (and earlier in the season) Hurley in red shirts.

I saw this mentioned in another thread about Michael telling the joke back in season 1, 'whats black and white and read (red) all over?', at the time it didnt seem relevant but now looking at the last few episodes could there be another team in the game - team red?

This episode we also saw Hurley with the red flower just before Michael showed up and Des definatley had a red shirt on, also we saw Hurley earlier in the season with a red (albeit a worn out red) shirt. Other occasions that spring to mind are the red paint Desmond spilled in 'The Conatant', also the guy in red shoes (same episode I think, was run over by a car).

So I am wondering if we have team Jacob (white) and team MiB/Locke (Black) whats the relevance, if any, of team Red?

Appologies if already being discussed but I couldnt find anything recent, feel free to merge, thanks.

LOST Talk / Into the final season - Favorite Character(s).....
« on: March 21, 2010, 08:33:56 PM »
Well now we are well into the final season of our favorite show I was wondering who everyone rooting for, who's our favorite characters, why, and if/what made you change your mind....
Just reading some thread's and I think this could be a good way of reminding some of us of the more subtle points of the characters, maybe telling us a few things we forgot, basically give us a 'new' approach to some old characteristics that we have grown to love over the past 6 years - well its worth a shot.

I have always been a big admirer of Charles Widmore, I love the character, so mysterious, never giving too much away, always playing his cards close to his chest. He obviously 'loves' the Island in his own way and wants it back at any cost. He seems such a hard man with money to back up his plan, but we have seen with his deteriorating relationship with his daughter Penny that he has a good heart (IMO). As much as he 'loves' the Island he still accepts that he screwed up with his relationship with Penny, he is obviously very devout to the Island that he would risk his relationship with his daughter. I think his 'obsession' with the Island is almost desperate and I am sure in the end he will turn out to be the good guy (or one of them).

I have always loved the Des and Penny thing to, only time I got a bit emotional was when it was Penny's boat that picked up the Oceanic 6 and the reunion between the 2 lovers. Desmond looks like being central to the Island's pysics, after all the time travelling he has had a pivotal role in constants and forseeing the future - a great and interesting character.

Also worthy of mention is Libby, another intruiging character and pretty to boot :). Just hope we find out why she was in the SRMI, I feel we deserve that at least.

Of the main characters Locke was always my favorite, loved his belief in his faith, that he would go to any lenght to follow his faith and that Smokey actually let him live back in the early days, leading him to say that he had seen into the eye of the Island and it was beautiful. I was kind of glad he was chosen to take the form of Smokey and it seems more beleivable than any of the other character being 'chosen', his strong faith and determination makes him a great vessel for MiB, he can be very persuasive (as we saw with people like Boone) yet seem quite calming, certainly not threatening, quite vulnerable as we have seen from his flashback - a great character acted very well by Terry O'Quinn.

so in conclusion:

1. Charles Widmore
2. John Locke
3. Desmond

Thanks for reading.

Episode 6x06 / Guess the candidates 'special powers'......
« on: March 10, 2010, 07:11:52 PM »
Are we able to get an idea of what the Losties special 'gift' is from Jacob?

Richard's reveal that Jacob touched him and now he can't kill himself (also assume he dosent age) but he is convinced Jack can kill him.

No idea yet where Richard was 'touched' but his gift is revealed, unable to kill himself and possibly (likley) does not age.

So we have seen some of the candidate's meet Jacob and seen him 'touch' them in different places.

Kate - (likley not a candidate) but Jacob touched he on the nose.
Jack - touched on the hand (as Jacob gave him the Apollo bar).
Sawyer - also touched on the hand (as Jacob gave him a pen).
Locke - touched on the shoulder after he was pushed out the window.
Sun and Jin - touched on the shoulders at their wedding.
Sayid - touched on the shoulder by Jacob asking directions.
Hurley - cant remember, he was given the guitar case (and Ankh), maybe again on the hand.

So we have Kate - nose, Jack, Sawyer and possibly Hurley - hand and Sun, Jin, Locke and Sayid on the shoulder - any meaning in this?

4 - Locke - shoulder
8 - Hurley - hand (possibly)
15 - Sawyer - hand
16 - Jarrah - shoulder
23 - Jack - hand
42 - Kwon - shoulder

Or is a touch just a touch, no matter where?

Episode 6x04 / Smoke and Mirrors.......
« on: February 25, 2010, 11:10:19 PM »
I felt sure there would be a topic on this but I cant find one so Ill put it here, if I missed another similar thread please feel free to merge.

This season so far has had a huge emphasis on the mirrors (and reflections) - Jack looking at his cut neck on the plane, Jack looking into the temple pool, the mirrors in the lighthouse, Jack noticing his appendix scar in a miroor, the Alice book (looking glass), there are many. Also aside from Jacob the main mystery man, Locke/MiB/Smokie.
2 major questions for me at this point, why all the mirrors/reflections and what is the Smoke (yes we know its MiB/Locke but how did it come to be and what is it or should that be 'how' is it possible).

Which coins the phrase Smoke and Mirrors........

From Wikipedia:

Smoke and mirrors is a metaphor for a deceptive, fraudulent or insubstantial explanation or description. The source of the name is based on magicians' illusions, where magicians make objects appear or disappear by extending or retracting mirrors amid a confusing burst of smoke. The expression may have a connotation of virtuosity or cleverness in carrying out such a deception.

In the field of computer programming, it is used to describe a program or functionality that doesn't yet exist, but appears as though it does (cf. vaporware). This is often done to demonstrate what a resulting project will function/look like after the code is complete — at a trade show, for example.

More generally, "smoke and mirrors" may refer to any sort of presentation by which the audience is intended to be deceived, such as an attempt to fool a prospective client into thinking that one has capabilities necessary to deliver a product in question.

So are we being deceived, or are we in line for and insubstantial explanation to the Lost universe? Are TPTB the illusionists and us the audience they intend to deceive? Basically, smoke and mirrors referrers the the illusions that magicians use to fool the audience into thinking that what they see is really happening. So can we assume that what we see isn't actually happening, be that on Island or off it..........

Episode 6x04 / Candidate's vs Recruit's.
« on: February 24, 2010, 04:58:27 PM »
With all the recent mention of Jacob's candidate's I decided to look the word up.

1. a person who seeks an office, honor, etc.: a candidate for governor.
2. a person who is selected by others as a contestant for an office, honor, etc.
3. a person who is deserving of or seems destined for a certain end or fate: Such a reckless spender is a candidate for the poorhouse.
4. a student studying for a degree: Candidates for the B.A. will have to meet certain minimum requirements.
–verb (used without object)
5. to become a candidate for service as a new minister of a church; preach before a congregation that is seeking a new minister.

Then I seemed to remember the word 'recruit' mentioned (maybe by Alana, think she tells Ben 'He's recruiting') when MiB was seeking re-enforcements (he even attempts to recruit Richard!), so I looked that up too:

1. a newly enlisted or drafted member of the armed forces.
2. a new member of a group, organization, or the like.
3. a fresh supply of something.
–verb (used with object)
4. to enlist (a person) for service in one of the armed forces.
5. to raise (a force) by enlistment.
6. to strengthen or supply (an armed force) with new members.
7. to furnish or replenish with a fresh supply; renew.
8. to renew or restore (the health, strength, etc.).
9. to attempt to acquire the services of (a person) for an employer: She recruits executives for all the top companies.
10. to attempt to enroll or enlist (a member, affiliate, student, or the like): a campaign to recruit new club members.
11. to seek to enroll (an athlete) at a school or college, often with an offer of an athletic scholarship.
–verb (used without object)
12. to enlist persons for service in one of the armed forces. engage in finding and attracting employees, new members, students, athletes, etc. recover health, strength, etc. gain new supplies of anything lost or wasted.

So the whole 'Free Will' thing springs to mind, it seems Jacob's candidate's have to be willing, they have to choose to join or assist him, while on the other hand seems MiB's recruit's may not have as much of a choice, he goes looking for them more directly.
In summary, the candidates seek their position with Jacob while MiB recruits his own band of merry men...... subtle or obvious, seems to me that the 'free will and choice' may be about to prove very relevant..........

Episode 6x02 / Sayid - A man for all seasons?
« on: February 12, 2010, 06:24:39 PM »
Or elements....

I was a big fan of the UK sci-fi series from the late 70's early 80's 'Sapphire and Steel' which was all based around time, space and the elements, hence our two main characters Sapphire and Steel (time bending special agents played by Joanna Lumley and David McCallum), along with a couple of other agents, Lead and Silver (amongst others who werent portrayed on screen).
It basically focused around people being effected by rips in time, the past would slip through into the present and the agents would try to allign time, yes it was complicated and very hard to follow  :-\ .

However it now transpired that our very own Iraqi torcherer has been subjected to several 'elements' - first he was electricuted (silver (Ag), copper (Cu) and gold (Au) are the best conductors of electric) by Danielle after she caught him in her net in season 1, he was shot (bullets traditionally made from lead? - Pb) and almost died in season 5, he was drowned in LA X (water - H20) and that latest episode saw him burned (Carbon (C), nitrogen (N) and hydrogen (H) are most flamable).

Has anyone else suffered as many different and varied injuries? It seems a little OTT that he has been shot, drowned, burned and electrocuted.... even for a former torcherer that seems a little drastic.....

Thoughts would be appreciated, thanks again for reading.

Theories & Speculation / Seems everything jumped back a month?
« on: February 11, 2010, 07:12:26 PM »
OK, at this point I have no real proof that it did but is it possible that Juliet exploding the bomb simply jumped everything back a month?

Going off Claire's scan date and going by the theory that you cant change what happened, is it possible that everything off Island, since the explosion skipped a month?

For instance, Kates dad was killed, but it wasnt Kate that killed him.
Hurley won the lotto with different numbers.
Shannon had an extra month to sort out her problems before Boone visited.
Locke had more time to plan his walkabout.
Sawyer realised that the guy who conned his parents wasnt the guy he went after.
Rose got the 'all clear'.

So maybe the 2nd 815 flight was a month later and never crashed.

Just thought Id put a few thoughts in type form to see if there's any relevance in them. (Feel free to merge if I missed a similar thread).

It started with Miles telling Sawyer that dead Juliet said 'It worked' and I though, how did she know it worked all of a sudden after previously being informed by Sawyer that her efforts had been in vain.
So then we saw Sayid die only to ressurect in a confused state with the Other's stating he is now infected.
Which led to the old Adam and Eve skeleton's and I started to think.....

With two apparent time lines running along side one another how is it that the character's are both on and off the Island?

The simple theory is that the off Island time line is 2004, the plane lands as scheduled but due to the event's of the explosion things are a little out of sync. If this is the case and the two time lines are connected (and destined to run into one another) then eventually Jack, kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Sayid, well everyone we have seen at LA X must end up back on the Island in 2007, or whatever year it is in season 6. Thats the logical (if far fetched) explanation. Basically if we are watching 2004 off Island and 2007 on Island simultaniously, then if they are to run their natural course then its logical to say for instance, in 2004 Kate is on the run accused of murder, she meets Claire and goes to the maternity ward with her, then whatever happens in between but in 2007 she is back on the Island with Jack, Sawyer etc.....

However the main argument would be, hang on, they dont seem to have any memories of the current 2004. Jin, for instance, wouldnt know Claire unless they crashed, as they didnt meet at LA X (he was busy explaining all the cash) and had no reason to meet her in between then and now. Kate still beleives she is on the Island to get Claire to reunite her with Aaron, even though as far as she is aware Claire was never on the plane that crashed on the Island?

Hope this makes sense....

Anyway, what I want to say, going back to my first point, if Juliet did in fact pass over just before she died, maybe she was back in Portland - and so once dead is able to tell Sawyer via Miles, that it did in fact work.
Maybe Sayid died, experienced his life again off the Island and was dragged back there by the 'infection' - thus explaining his confusion. He may think it was just a dream but unless it is revealed, which I think it will be, we wont know one way or the other.

Finally, we see a few very content people on the LA X flight, Sawyer, Hurley, Rose, Bernard, Locke, Boone and Desmond for starters.

Well, we now know Island Locke is dead - so he is back in the loop and may have got to do his walkabout.
Boone, dead and quite content on the flight.
Desmond, didnt go back and so hasnt experienced all the glitches - content.
Juliet wasnt on the flight but now her Island doppleganger is dead then Im guessing she is happy off Island, thus her message for Sawyer that it worked. She could mean her dying worked.
This could be bad news for Hurley and Sawyer fans as I think they are going to die on the Island - thus there contentness in LA X.
Which leads to Rose and Bernard - well thats obvious, Adam and Eve  8) dead on the Island, happy off it.
Could even say Ethan, seemed pretty content when we saw him this week.

So the survivors, Kate, still running and surviving on the Island but still running and in trouble off it.
Jack - I admit Im not sure, he did seem to have lost abit of his confidence but other than that.....

And the exception to the rule - Charlie, dead on Island and still a mess off it!

And then Claire who plain and simply, shouldnt be on the Island IMO :)

I appreciate if you read all that, may seem a bit jumbled and I will try and edit it into some sort of order but any comments would be appreciated.


Episode 5x16 / Widmore in cahoots with Jacob's nemesis?
« on: May 15, 2009, 07:15:36 PM »
Now as some of you know I am in the 'Widmore is good' camp so it may be surprising that Iam suggesting he may be the man in black's ally in all of this. However I wouldnt jump to the conclusion that the man in black is the bad guy just yet.

My main argument is Widmore's desire to get Locke back to the Island - and the need for Locke to be on the Island if Jacob is to die. It would appear Jack, Kate, Sawyer etc have all been touched by Jacob and the theory that they are on the Island to help Jacob in his battle with the man in black and his desire to kill Jacob.
Another argment is the man in black seems to want to keep people away from the Island, his annoyance that the Black Rock (with which Widmore seems obsessed) has found the Island backed up by Widmore faking the 815 crash, so as to keep people away.
He sent the freighter to kill everyone on the Island too - he has the same desire to keep people off the Island as Jacob's nemesis.

OK, it sounds bad, but there is obviously a passionate reason why the man in black and Widmore want to keep people from the Island, and efectivley destroying it and eachother.
And finally, off Island he is always (well to my recollection) is a black suit or coat, and his on Island version wears a faded black t-shirt - not brilliant evidence buy its there.

So I still think Widmore is the good guy as far as having the Islands best interests at heart - bravo!  ;D

Theories & Speculation / Who is Good/Bad?
« on: April 14, 2009, 10:31:22 PM »
As I said this is purely impulse because I can see that Ben is getting alot of sympathy of late. People seem to think that he is doing the right thing as far the Island is concerned.
After the latest episode (Dead is Dead) Ben has been 'judged' by Smokie and apparently been allowed to live - so naturally it seems that he is infact working in the best interests of the Island.
However the stark warning that the Island/ Somkie/ Alex gave him, as in 'follow Locke, do not attemp to kill him etc' would suggest the Island has spared him, rather than forgave him, as he has a role to play in protecting and assisting Locke.
Now off Island we saw Widmore, more than happy to assist Locke, and even going out of his way at great expense to ensure Locke completed his mission.

So it seems that Locke is the pawn in the big game. Ben has killed him, Widmore has gone to all the trouble of assisting him.

So who do you think is the good guy? We have seen Charles order the killing of Danielle and Alex, we saw Ben spare Danielle but take Alex as his own. We saw Widmore banished from the Island, we saw Ben, apparently healed by the Island. We have seen Widmore offer to help Locke, we have seen Ben 'kill' Locke......... so i am getting confused, they have both done good things, both done bad things.

Opinions please....

I vote Widmore, he is my favorite character and in the long run I honestly think Charles will emerge as the good guy. He was there first, he seems to have the Islands best interests at heart but he has made mistakes, but when his turn comes to be judged I think we will see he is the real hero in all of this..... or maybe not  ;)

Episode 5x11 / Richard and the Temple
« on: April 05, 2009, 08:01:25 PM »
One image that sticks in my head from this episode was Richard carrying a young Ben, rather clumsily, into the Temple, assuming that that was actually the Temple (pretty sure it was).
Now the initial basis of my thoughts revolves around only a couple of instances but they are quite significant ones, those being Locke and the guy Montande from Danielle's team being dragged by Smokie into the Temple ruins. This is assuming that is where Locke was being dragged. We know Montande was being taken to the Temple ruins and as Locke was being dragged in much the same way and not killed in situ as were the pilot and Ecko (and others who skip my mind) were by Smokie I would make an educated guess that Locke was on his way to the Temple too. Locke wanted to go with Smokie, he said that what he had seen was beautiful.
So by Richards own admition, the Temple does things to people, it takes their innocence, they will never be the same, not remember etc.
Now onto my point.
We are in 1977, the Dharma is going strong, still recruiting and all is well. Tensions between Dharma and the natives are fragile as the truce has been broken on occasion but we have 2 solid groups, Dharma with Horrace at the helm and the Natives with, well I suppose Richard at their helm, although questions have been raised as to the significance of Ellie and Charles (who have been on the Island since at least 1954 (Jughead).
We have not yet encountered Smokie pre 1977 and there has been no mention of it.
However there are 2 entities on the Island that show up out of nowhere and take people to the Temple, thats correct, Richard and Smokie.
At this point Im kind of confused myself but what i am trying to figure out is the significance of Richard and his conection to the Temple and Smokies, I am convinces the 2 entities are connected in some way but not sure how.
Anyone agree/ disagree?

Appologies if already been brought up, the only thing searching found was over 6 months old and did not really cover what I have to say. Feel free to merge however if i missed something.

Episode 4x13 / S04 Round Up...
« on: May 30, 2008, 08:31:57 PM »
OK, Ive seen this type of thread posted before and think its a nice little 'Season 4 cuddle'. rather than discuss all the questions, theories and speculation in seperate threads in depth can we just have a 'light hearted' discussion about some of the questions the finale threw at us in one post, just adding as we go along?
I would love to start the ball rolling with my top 5 questions (the ones where we can copy and paste our thoughts) and hopefully we can add to it through the haitus (sp?) or 'break'. If its a bad idea then delete as necessary...

I will start with the teaser that Charlotte said 'I will stay, I am still looking for where I was born' or words to that effect - surely this means that she was born on the Island - a good chance that Charlotte is Annie (Ben's young love?)

Next up is the look Michael gave Sun when she told him she was pregnant - I first though his expression was one of 'Am I the father' type thing - am I looking too deep with this one? Did Sun and Michael sleep together?

Third on my 'Top Questions' list is where did Rose and Bernard go? Did they stay or did they go? If they stayed there will be trouble... you know the lyrics :) We only saw Juliette and Sawyer left on the Island, were Rose and Bernard on the boat or did they stay too. I know this is a teaser from TPTB..

Next, on the subject of TPTB, I felt they gave up too much information with the 'Frozen Donkey Wheel'. Most of us guessed that was how the Island would be 'moved' and when it came up in the finale I was like 'ah, there's the frozen donkey wheel, we were all right after all...' - sort of spoiled the moment for me, dont know about you?

Finally, my favorite tid bit, as I did a bit of 'research' is the whole meaning of the name 'Jacob' - apparently it means 'He who replaces' - so it would seem that Jacob is the 'one' who replaces the 'leader' (for want of a better name) of the Others. I would guess, by the looks and mannerisms that Richard gave Ben that Jacob 'replaced' Richard as leader of the Others with Ben, now he replaced Ben with Locke and it would seem, with Christians cameo (representing Jacob) that once the chopper had safely taken off Michael could 'go now'. This in my opinion was purely for the reason of getting Aaron away from harm, thus Aaron will eventually replace someone as leader of the Others.
Now that the O6 are safe and Aaron is not in immediate danger then Jacob (or the Island) demands that they return, for IMO Aaron to learn his trade as it were.

Any more thoughts or responses?

I'll post this here as I think with the current situation with Keamy and the 'plan B' its current.

I was thinking about Keamy taking over the 'mission', The captain was hired, he thought, to transport 'scientists' to the Island for research and he possibly knew they were to capture Ben.
Now it seems that all along Keamy was in the background running the show, he and the captain both had a key to the safe containing 'plan B' - it may be that Keamy was Widmore's top man, the guy assigned to get Ben at all costs.
So with plan B Widmore has information regarding Ben's moves were the Island to come under attack, I was thinking how Widmore could be so sure what Ben would do, and where he got this info and the folder, untill I remembered Kelvin!

Could Widmore have sent Kelvin, another ex-military man, on a previous mission to either get Ben or find information on him? Keamy and Kelvin both have military backgrounds, and untill now I thought Kelvin was genuine Dharma - but maybe Kelvin was sent by Widmore, either killed Radzinski or was sent along with Radzinski, and was gathering info regarding the Island (the blast door map) and Ben's movements.
We didnt find alot out about Kelvin, we knew he was in Iraq with Sayid and we knew he was in the Swan with Desmond (and Radzinski previously), so my thinking is he could be a character similar to Keamy, only a watered down version (unless he did kill radzinski), sent by Widmore to find Ben, or info about him - how else would Widmore have put together the file, plan B, or indeed plan A?

Episode 4x11 / Widmore can't die.
« on: May 09, 2008, 03:35:12 PM »
In 3-09 when Widmore askes Ben if he has come to kill him, Ben replies 'we both know I cant do that' - so does this mean that Widmore too is 'protected' from dying by the Island like Locke and Michael? Has Widmore still got a purpose on the Island, thus why he is desperate to find it - to stop the nightmares?
Are the nightmares 'visits' from the Island much like Hurleys visits from Charlie and Jack's visits from Christian - Hurley is in the SRMI and Jack is a hopeless addict, however Widmore seems very well balanced - for now.
We have now got proof that Locke cannot die (his premature complications, his fall and also Ben more or less confirmed he knew he wouldnt die when he shot him, also Michael survives again even though Keamy tries to shoot him in the head twice!)

If the psycic Miss Hawking is as good as we are led to believe then what are the possibilities if she indeed works for Widmore?

We have all wondered why there was such a co-incidence surrounding the passangers of Oceanic 815, how some of their lives are intertwined, well if Hawking was working for Widmore she could have used he abilities and Widmores money to put the group together.
Her acts could have something to do with why Hurley, Jack, Claire, Kate etc all ended up on the flight, she may have known the plane would crash but that certain people would survive.

Claire for instance ended up on the flight due to psycic's advice (I think he was a fake but maybe Hawking influenced him).

If Hawking had forseen who was on the plane and what part they would play in surviving on the island, I think with Widmore and all his minions there is a chance they could have got them on flight 815, not sure how yet but hopefully if others agree to some extent we could discuss the possibilities or maybe knock the idea on the head.

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