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Messages - quick127

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Episode 6x16 / My Biggest Complaint
« on: May 25, 2010, 04:08:38 AM »
My biggest complaint about the season finale is the stuff I'm reading from news outlets and websites through google news where people point out that Damon said long ago that they weren't in purgatory.  Then the writer goes on to say, "well I guess he lied flat-out, it was soooo obvious even seasons ago."

To these people I say - take the show as a whole, or don't take it at all.  If you have an incomplete impression of the show, then just shut up.

They weren't in purgatory the whole time, and if you'd actually paid attention to the things that were stated out-right in the finale, you'd know that.

Only the "sideways" of season 6 was any sort of afterlife, you smug, ill-informed, opinionated wing-bags.


I know full well that show was not just a phenomenon, it was also a very polarizing thing.  You either loved it, and watched it.  Or hated it, and either quit watching or pressed on despite that because you wanted to know what it was about.  Or never gave it the time of day and then complained when you tried to watch and were confused.

Whether you loved it or hated it, just as with anything in life that has a clear beginning, middle, and end. - don't react or comment on it out of ignorance.  I don't care if you hated it like crazy by the end and want to talk about it, so long as you put forward a good try and have a complete impression.  Then you have a right to say what you think.

I don't engage in conversations about politics in any fashion because I don't have a complete understanding of it, one way or another.  So to these writers I say, don't comment on something out of ignorance.

Episode 6x16 / Re: The Official "Pat yourself on the back" Thread
« on: May 25, 2010, 04:00:06 AM »
I regrettably have no textual proof to back this up,

But I predicted the reveal about what caused the plane to crash well before we knew a lot about the hatch.  The moment the key to gun case around Jack's neck went weird, or when we found out Desmond was pressing a button all the time.

Whichever of those happened second was when I knew.  Perhaps that was common prediction, but I was still proud of it.

I was also one of the sad people to immediately unscramble hoffs/drawler when it showed up.  I about crapped my pants.

I also a lot of those "aha" moments just seconds before things were officially revealed.  The others' village, Ben killing Locke (the moment he kicked in the door, I just knew), and many others that I can no longer recall.  None of these were necessarily insightful or uncommon - but I'm proud of 'em, as I said.

Episode 6x16 / Re: I cried
« on: May 24, 2010, 03:21:19 AM »
They didn't live out their lives without their loved ones - they found others.  This version of an afterlife is about the people and things that had great meaning to you.  They'll meet up with their own folks.

Episode 6x16 / It was perfect.
« on: May 24, 2010, 03:13:19 AM »
Those that disagree, take everything I'm about to say with a grain of salt.

For me, just as the producers have said, this show has always been about the characters and their relationships.  As both a religious person and a person who puts a great deal of stock in my own friendships and relationships, I found the ending immensely satisfying.  Not only did it challenge the viewer to examine the relationships of the characters, but hopefully those in their own lives as well.  The meaning of them.

Flashbacks and Flashforwards have always taken place in the same time line.  These flashsideways were a misnomer created by fans and supported by the staff of the show.  It was never sideways, it was just different.

I'm paraphrasing quotes and listing things that TPTB have said in the past here:  Everything on the island happened, and everything on the island was significant to our characters.  Everyone dies sometime.  These are the people in your life who meant something.  It's time to move on.  The events of season 6 were completely separated, connected only by the moments when the characters "sideways" remembered the events of their lives - everything that was shown, chronologically, from season 1 to season 5, and everything happened on the island in season 6.  It was all real.

The sideways world was a form of limbo or purgatory - a sense of the afterlife.  Whether you support a theology that suggests an afterlife or not - it was a pleasant trip down memory lane for all the viewers to see the lives these characters led together.  It was a happy ending.

The mysticism of the island, the history of the island, the mythology of the island - all real to our characters.  None of that was limbo or purgatory... and maybe it wasn't fleshed out as much as some viewers would like - but it was certainly a fantastic and exciting backdrop for us to learn about these characters, watch them live life together - the good and bad, the joy and the sorrow, the tears and the laughter. 

The flash sideways never worked like this

___________:  Reality

___________:  Sideways

They weren't happening concurrently.

It was more like this:

___________: Reality

. : Sideways, a single point

Our characters jumped all around the time for reality, up and down the line - and they all exited it at varying times, through death.  Boone, very early on.  Charlotte, at some undisclosed time, perhaps way before 815 crashed.  Jack, sometime near the very end of what any of our characters ever knew.  Rose and Bernard, an undisclosed time after that.  Hurley and Ben - perhaps well after that.  "You were a good number two."  "You were a good number one."

Those two went on living for an undisclosed amount of time as a new Jacob and Richard dynamic.  The protector and his adviser.

As they died, they all arrived at the same time in the Sideways, at this single point, with 815 in the air.  Because it was a significant time in all their lives.  Their relationships, a word that will become hated and taboo for some fans, united them so thoroughly that the afterlife for them was about rediscovering one another - remembering, and moving on.

Ordinary people living through extraordinary circumstances, coming out the other end only because they chose to live together, whether or not they died alone.

That, to me, is what life boils down to - even if it leaves an unsatisfied taste in the mouths of some because of too many things left unanswered.  I found myself overjoyed when Claire and Charlie, Sawyer and Juliet, and Sun and Jin rediscovered their pasts.  I was elated at the sense of closure and acceptance, through a simple nod and a handshake, that came to Jack and Locke.  I smiled from ear to ear when Sawyer and Jack shared a hug.  I felt for Ben as he sat by himself, reflecting on what these people meant to him, despite his faults and his role in their lives.  A time that was made even sweeter through a short exchange with Hurley that let you know Ben turned out alright.

Life boils down to living together.  Just about any major religion will tell you that.

Adopt whatever of the following three tenets you wish, but focus on the second and the third - the second especially.

"Love God.
Love others.
Love yourself."
A ridiculously over-simplified version of Matthew 22:37-40

I'm living life with the people I meet, even if only for a moment.  And I love them.  A fictional show put a lot of weight on it - if nothing else, that's a challenge for real life to blow it out of the water like a doomed submarine and make the real thing even better.

Episode 6x16 / Re: Juliet to Miles "It Did"
« on: May 22, 2010, 10:22:43 PM »
Whatever she said - the point is, it worked - and this is what I think that means.

Episode 6x16 / Juliet to Miles "It Did"
« on: May 22, 2010, 01:22:14 AM »
At the beginning of the season, if the throes of anger and sorrow - Sawyer demanded that Miles talk to Juliet about setting off the bomb - more importantly, why didn't it work, why they weren't sipping coffee in a cafe.

Juliet's response was, simply, "It did."

I think the cut on Jack's neck in the ATL is a sign that he is going to die there, somehow.  None of our other principle characters have died in the ATL (to the best of my memory).  Juliet was the first of our principles to die following the explosion.  I believe that a shred of her consciousness held on to impart this last bit of info to Miles.  You die on the island - you become fully, memories and all, a part of yourself in the ATL.  You die in the ATL - you become fully, memories and all, a part of yourself on the island.

I don't think the ATL is alternate at all.  I think it's an incomplete picture of what success on the island leads to.  Jack will die there, and stay with the island, which will sink.  The rest of them will return to what is now the real world.

Sawyer and Juliet will have that cup of coffee.  Or a date - or something.

The point is - Juliet's parting words haven't been explained yet... and I think they will be.  I am not naive enough to think all our questions will be answered, but that little tidbit occurred in this season's premiere - so it stands to reason that it may have some implications.

Episode 5x12 / Re: Is reincarnated Locke really Smokey?
« on: April 14, 2009, 02:28:24 AM »
He's dead.  Smokey has never taken on the form of someone living.  Eko's brother, Alex, Christian, Locke.  It's been referred to as a security system in the past - perhaps protecting the island itself, but now it seems that when it takes the form of a person it is always about protecting Jacob, or communicating for Jacob, or protecting someone with strong ties to Jacob.

I don't know why it would appear as Alex to tell Ben not to mess with Locke if it is, in fact, Locke - but it seems plausible to me.  There is no reason for Locke to suddenly be so confident when he was basically a broken man before Ben killed him.  There is no reason for him to know where the temple was, unless he'd already been there.  Seeing as that seems to be where the smoke monster lives, and stands to reason that it would know where it is.

Yes, Locke has been dragged into a hole before, but we have no idea if that was near the temple, and besides - he was rescued well before he ever made it that far underground.

The thing that makes this seem the most likely to me is the moment from season 1 (or 2) where Locke stared the monster in the fact and survived to tell another day.  Clearly, whatever the monster is, or whomever controls it, had more plans for John Locke in the future.  Perhaps it wanted him as an avatar.  If you think about it - no form that it has ever taken was someone who died by its hand, but always someone who's body ended up on the island.

Christian - died off the island.
Alex - shot by Keemy
Eko's brother - died in a plane crash.
Quite possibly Locked - killed by Ben off the island.

But, as is always the case, we'll find out for sure when the writers decide to reveal it for us.

For my part - I definitely think Locke is no longer Locke.  Too much of a change to his personality, too many things he suddenly knows that he shouldn't know, never around when Smokey is, and so forth.

Episode 4x13 / Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
« on: June 05, 2008, 12:43:08 PM »
Maybe, but not necessarily.  I can't remember back to the Dave episode - bit I feel like if the name had been on record, the staff would've made some mention of that.

But then, who's to say these 'ghosts' have to be honest with the people who can communicate with them?

Episode 4x13 / Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
« on: June 05, 2008, 11:29:23 AM »
Though it could have been well before he met and married his wife.

Also - I'm not entirely convinced that every "ghost" we see is necessarily some sort of representation of Jacob.  I think, like Miles, Hurley has an ability to communicate with the dead.  I think Dave was once a real person, just as Charlie was.

I think Hurley does not yet realize that this is a gift he has because it started when he was in a mental institution.  He entered Santa Rosa because of the numbers and his bad luck.  He met Dave there.  Patients in mental institutions don't tend to BEGIN manifesting delusions and hallucinations once they have been put on their drugs.

Episode 4x13 / Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
« on: June 04, 2008, 05:11:03 PM »
I feel like if Christian had been on a plane that crashed on the island - there'd be some knowledge about the whole fact that HE HAD BEEN ON A PLANE THAT CRASHED.

Just sayin'.

Episode 4x13 / Re: Locke(jeremy bentham) = show's new villain
« on: June 03, 2008, 06:06:42 PM »
Agreed.  I've found Locke to be a vindictive character already, when pushed.   But it is also clear that he is easily manipulated, at least by Ben.  While I don't necessarily hold that Ben is, at his core, a bad character - I do believe he is a source of bad events due to his drive, and will continue the trend through Locke.

Episode 4x13 / Re: Who's the Real Hero?
« on: June 02, 2008, 08:28:31 AM »
We don't know Jack's background?  He's had more flashback/forward episodes than any other character.

Every quality that has been developed in these episodes has shown on the island as well.  At first - he's driven, he's loyal to a fault, he relies on science, he's sure of himself, he fears failure, he fears becoming his father, he rarely listens to anyone else (but because he has been FORCED into leadership roles, especially on the island).

As time has moved on, and as we see in the flashforwards - he is no longer sure of himself, he's becoming reliant on others, he has become manipulative, he (eventually) starts to concede points that Locke makes, he's not certain that his decisions are best, he does become his father (drug and alcohol addiction).

Jack is not one-dimensional.  And we certainly know Jack's background.  I could have told you from the moment we found out Jack was a doctor that he was going to be a bit of a leader, have a stubborn streak, be loyal to a fault, rarely listen to others, etc. etc.  I could have told you from the moment Boone died while he was working on him that Jack was going to face disappointments, and that he was going to change during his time on the island.  His interactions with Locke are evidence of this - he began to disagree and try to manipulate him because he thought, essentially, that Locke was simple-minded.  His interactions with Ben further support this - Jack became downright vindictive.  As much as I thought he deserved it when it came, in retrospect - when Jack beat the poop out of Ben towards the end of season 3, it was a bit shocking.

This (and I don't just mean the Jack in the flashforwards) is not the Jack we met at the beginning of the series.

Episode 4x13 / Re: The moving Island
« on: June 01, 2008, 04:51:27 PM »
The 4-toed statue could have been built in the island's original resting place - before the experiments started.

Episode 4x13 / Re: Is Locke actually Dead?
« on: June 01, 2008, 04:49:17 PM »
Yeah... I didn't want to mention the spiders outright - but that's sort of what I was getting at.  We'll see.

See - I'd stick with that motto - but we've seen so many supposedly dead people come back after they were apparently dead... so it seems to me a more acceptable burden of doubt with LOST rests in "Not dead until proven dead."

Episode 4x13 / Re: What can we expect from Season 5
« on: June 01, 2008, 01:51:46 PM »
Mmm... Spinal Tap.

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