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Messages - shadow

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Episode 6x16 / Re: Dan, Penny and Lipidas...???
« on: May 24, 2010, 11:25:52 AM »
Hurley probably knew and didn't need Desmond. (we never saw Hurley find out. and Im thinking if he was the new Jacob, that he would have been the one to "show" everyone.)

Desmond was crucial in getting Hurley and Libby together. They had met once, but without that second push from him, they would not have reconnected.

Episode 6x16 / Re: Dan, Penny and Lipidas...???
« on: May 24, 2010, 11:24:05 AM »
Jack laid in the pool though as the light came back on, which I think would count as crossing the threshold.

It is the difference between a light being on in a room before you walk into it and turning the light on after you do.

That is not important, though.

I provided an answer that could work in the story and that's the best you can hope for now. If you are still looking for answers, pretty much any one you get at this point is going to feel unsatisfactory. As we learned recently, answers to these questions will only lead to more questions.

Episode 6x16 / Re: St Elsewhere?
« on: May 24, 2010, 10:50:21 AM »
NO, that is not what I'm saying.  It's been know since the beginning that the flight left Sydney.  To argue that would be silly.  It was specifically stated on the show.  But, no one stated at exactly what point people died.  As you pointed out, they died at different times.  When and how wasn't specifically stated.  These allows for interpretation.

And it has been said, time and time again by the show's creators that they did not die in the crash of 815.
(emphasis added)
    *  The purgatory theory was debunked by J.J. Abrams in a Zap2it interview published in March 14, 2005, "though he claimed to like the idea."
    * The theory was again expressly debunked by executive producer Damon Lindelof in a New York Times interview published on May 25, 2006. Noting the fact that the finale of Season 2 shows the outside world in the present (as opposed to a flashback) for the first time, Lindelof added: "People who believe that they're in purgatory or that they're subjects of an experiment are going to start reassessing those theories based on the fact that we are literally showing you the outside world."
    * This theory was rejected again by Damon Lindelof on the October 6, 2006 podcast.
    * Following the airing of "D.O.C." and Naomi's revelation that the wreckage of Oceanic Flight 815 was allegedly found and there were no survivors, the "purgatory" theory was again debunked twice; first by Damon Lindelof in an interview with E! Online [1], stating that "If we did such a thing after repeatedly stating otherwise, we'd be tarred and feathered!"; and second, by Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse in the April 30, 2007 podcast, insisting out that "we were not lying, it's not purgatory" and listing several possible other explanations for Naomi's revelation.
    * Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse again debunked this theory in a Lost recap special when they added that the Losties are not dead and "do exist somewhere in the space time continuum."

If you are not going to take their word on the matter, there is really nothing more that I can say.

Episode 6x16 / Re: St Elsewhere?
« on: May 24, 2010, 10:10:02 AM »
I love how the thought police come out and tell everyone who doesn't share their opinion is wrong. 

There were other people on the island that weren't in the plane crash.  They could have died in other ways and ended up on the island.   Ben, Desmond, Richard, Juliet.  They got on the island different ways and times. I'm not saying the other option is wrong, thus the term 'option.'  I'm saying there's another way to look at it. 

So if I said "I think that Oceanic 815 took off from London", no one is allowed to point out that the show explicitly contradicts my opinion?

The fact that Ben and Juliet are at the church is further evidence that they survived as these people did not meet the survivors until after the crash.

Especially since they show the crash during the credits.  No one is around.  And the plane isn't torn apart to be a camp.

No bodies, either, so the plane must have been empty and flown by an artificial intelligence which imagined this story of survivors to keep itself occupied until its batteries ran out and it died.   ::)

Episode 6x16 / Re: Dan, Penny and Lipidas...???
« on: May 24, 2010, 09:54:50 AM »
Why Jack or Desmond didn't turn into their own version of Smokey is what I want to know.

Desmond is immune.
Jack descended into the cave when the light was "off" and Smokeyization only occurs if you cross the threshold with the light on.

Episode 6x16 / Re: St Elsewhere?
« on: May 24, 2010, 09:51:08 AM »
everyone did not die in the original plane crash

That is your opinion.

The way I see it, there are 2 ways to look at it.
1.  The plane crashed, they all died.  The events on the island was a test.  Eventually everyone on the island 'dies.'  They move on and meet up at the church and go into the light.
2.  The plane crashed, they survived.  The island events happened in real time, and everyone eventually dies.  They meet up at the church and go into the light.

Christian told Jack "Some died before you and some died long after". That rules out any interpretation of them all dieing in the plane crash.

Episode 6x12 / Re: First There Was The Monster
« on: May 04, 2010, 04:57:54 PM »
In chess, the opinion that a particular action is "good" or "evil" is completely dependent on whether you are a player or a pawn.

From the player's perspective, there really is no such thing as "good" and "evil"; it's just a game. A pawn, however, sees manipulation and death as its companions are sacrificed for some objective to which it may not be privy.

Episode 6x12 / Re: MiB brought Sayid back to life?
« on: April 30, 2010, 02:40:47 PM »
Yeah a drowning and a throat slitting both qualify as pretty evil to me.

I guess I should have asked "Killing four people in cold blood is not evil?"

I had forgotten about the Temple; I was just thinking the two Widmore people that were walking with Desmond and Zoe.

Episode 6x12 / Re: MiB brought Sayid back to life?
« on: April 28, 2010, 10:38:07 AM »
Sayid hasn't done anything evil; he is just acting standoffish, watching & observing?

Killing two people in cold blood is not "evil"?

Episode 6x12 / Re: Prediction: David's Mother
« on: April 21, 2010, 01:41:43 PM »
You just read the spoilers :P (about the whole David's Mother part)... :P I have no info on the coffee part

Nope ... no spoiler. Just kinda makes sense when you look at it as it was revealed in the episodes:

Sun gets shot - (3/4 eps back) Guess she and Jin are going to the hospital and run into Jack.
Locke gets run over - (2 eps back) Guess he's going to the same hospital.
Ben in ambulance (last ep) - He's probably in the waiting room at the hospital.
Sawyer / Miles - (last ep) Police are probably going to have to do some investigation at the hospital.
Jack / David - (last ep) End up at hospital.
David's Mom - (last ep, foreshadow) Will probably have to end up at hospital to pick up David.

Given the limited number of eps left, you have to assume that she is going to be someone we know. Juliet really is the only "holdout" in the ATL.

Episode 6x12 / Re: Prediction: David's Mother
« on: April 21, 2010, 10:37:32 AM »
wouldnt' it be more likely that Sawyer would come to the hospital to interview (with a translator) Sun and Jin, who were at the shooting?  They just arrested Sayid, so they would be investigating the shootings at the restaurant.

Yeah ... that probably works better.

I was trying to think how to tie up Locke's story into it, too. But maybe instead of guessing that he survive, it is simply enough that Jack has to stay in the OR working on him well past 7 pm, thus Juliet needs to come to the hospital to pick David up. Sawyer is there as part of an investigation...

Episode 6x12 / Prediction: David's Mother
« on: April 21, 2010, 10:13:00 AM »
Locke survives the operation.
Sawyer is sent to the hospital to interview him as part of the investigation.
Juliet shows up to pick up David.
Sawyer and Juliet talk about getting a cup of coffee.

Episode 6x11 / Re: Was Michael the MIB?
« on: April 20, 2010, 03:33:00 PM »
First, let me say I think the answer is no. However, we know Locke has wanted and needed to get all the candidates together. Then Michael *poof* shows up and tells Hurley to 1) don't blow up the plane, and 2) march everyone over to Locke.

If it wasn't MIB (and I could think of a half dozen reasons why its not) then he sure as hell was doing exactly what MIB would have done.

Any thoughts?

I am pretty sure that every time we been shown MIB manifesting as someone/something, it was a physical manifestation. That is, whatever/whomever it is, everyone can see it/touch it, because it is actually there.

When Hurley is talking to the dead, it has been shown, multiple times, that he is the only one that can see them.

Episode 6x09 / Re: Richard
« on: April 01, 2010, 09:47:41 AM »
Huh? Richard has been shown off-island several times ("Not in Portland", visits to Locke, etc).

Episode 6x08 / Re: Ricardo-Jacob: Are you the Devil?
« on: March 25, 2010, 05:04:23 PM »
Or it could be someone who is not in the ATL. We haven't seen all of the ATL story yet so there could be someone who is dead in that timeline but alive in this timeline. Like... i dunno... Frank. We haven't seen him yet in ATL. Just sayin...

I think Frank certainly has a chance. He WAS supposed to beflying the plane, and Smokey killed the stand in pilot first. Might think Frank is not a threat.

Frank was not flying the plane in the ATL. The pilot (who only "appeared" via cabin announcements) was the same actor that played the pilot in the pilot (Greg Grunberg, aka "Matt Parkman" from "Heroes").

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