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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x15 => Topic started by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 07, 2009, 07:54:58 PM

Title: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 07, 2009, 07:54:58 PM
  On the way home from work today, my mind was wandering back to last night's episode.  I kept coming back to two different scenes--one being John walking out of the jungle with the bullet in his leg, and the other being his comment about killing Jacob.  This may be a bit confusing, but when I explained it to my husband, he got what I was trying to say.

This is my question: As far as we know, there are two John Locke's on the island right now: Past John with the bullet in his leg, and our present John as the new leader.  How do we know, though, that there are only the two?  How do we know that the John we see now is actually his 'present' self?

What if John with the bullet in his leg is the past, and so is the John we've been seeing as the new leader?  What if John's real 'present' self is the man in the cabin, what if John is Jacob?

From what little glimpse we had of Jacob so long ago, the still frame only ever looked like John Locke to me.  When John heard Jacob speak to him saying "Help Me..."..he was the only one to hear him.  Maybe Jacob/John was trying to communicate to his past self (and possibly could have done so through his thoughts)..

My thought is that the season might end with John seeing himself in the cabin, realizing who Jacob really is...(in a way that we won't see it, but it will be a shocked look on John's face...him knowing, but us left to speculate---at least until next season.)

So, to sum up---I think that our John now is a past version of himself, and that present John is Jacob.  It would explain the miraculous healing of his legs--since Jacob/the island can heal people. 


Please comment!!  Discuss!!
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: hyperform on May 07, 2009, 08:03:43 PM
I tend to agree with this theory, of all the characters on the show, only two have gotten visions that gave them explicit information that they shouldn't have known, Desmond and Locke, and both of them were in the hatch when it blew.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: KoKoNut on May 07, 2009, 08:31:33 PM
That does make sense, Hatchie. I know you've seen the screen shot of Jacob on other threads, and for some reason it kinda looked like John with hair.

But hasn't Jacob  been around for a long time, or we don't know that?  I have a faulty memory sometimes so I don't remember.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: KittenPoo on May 07, 2009, 08:31:42 PM
Wow!  I like the theory.  Don't know if I'm on board with it - but I think it's seriously interesting.  But, where does that leave Christian?
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 07, 2009, 08:52:16 PM
I like this, Monkay, and I'd like to offer a supplemental theory: If 2007-Locke somehow gets flashed back into time, perhaps he will never age (cause, you know, he's deadish/resurrected).....so he'll "live" on the island forever and that's how he becomes Jacob.

Did you just say this? lol... now I can't remember...
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 07, 2009, 08:53:26 PM
That definitely could be how it happens, I like that.:)
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: KoKoNut on May 07, 2009, 08:54:55 PM
Do we know how long Jacob has been there though? So if Locke is really Jacob, did he flash back in time far enough?  I'm not making sense.  Please someone understand my question.  :-\
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 07, 2009, 09:03:23 PM
Do we know how long Jacob has been there though? So if Locke is really Jacob, did he flash back in time far enough?  I'm not making sense.  Please someone understand my question.  :-\
um... I think that we don't know how long Jacob has been there. Since Locke mentioned him in 1954 and Richard seemed to know what he was talking about, I'm guessing Locke would have to flash back to at least 1954.  Not sure if this answers your question.? sorry hon.  :'(
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: CameronLee on May 07, 2009, 09:05:03 PM
I like this, Monkay, and I'd like to offer a supplemental theory: If 2007-Locke somehow gets flashed back into time, perhaps he will never age (cause, you know, he's deadish/resurrected).....so he'll "live" on the island forever and that's how he becomes Jacob.

Did you just say this? lol... now I can't remember...

When Jacob said "Help Me" he sounded a lot older.

Although that's the only thing keeping me from agreeing with you, because Richard never ages, and we don't know the reason... maybe he died and came back like Locke, and the same thing is happening to both of them.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 07, 2009, 09:14:59 PM
We all sound differently to ourselves...   ;)
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: patrixmith on May 07, 2009, 10:39:26 PM
I always thought since that first glimpse we got of Jacob in the cabin (that split second shot of the old guy in the chair) that it looked exactly like John Locke's side profile of his face, and also, the exact same looking forehead. I'll try to dig up that photo in a sec, but it definitely looks like Locke.

I like your idea. I've been thinking about it for awhile too trying to come up with explanations of how John could possibly be Jacob.

Also, it brings a whole new meaning to the song: "John Jacob Jingle-heimer Schmidt... la la la!"
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 07, 2009, 10:46:38 PM
(http://i40.tinypic.com/289ecqx.jpg)
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 07, 2009, 10:48:23 PM
The picture all the way to the right is the Jacob picture and the Locke picture blended together.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: patrixmith on May 07, 2009, 10:50:25 PM
Not sure if it's just me, but your picture isn't showing up.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 07, 2009, 10:51:13 PM
It's showing up on my computer.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: patrixmith on May 07, 2009, 10:58:28 PM
I'm at work, so probably just me...

Also, what did you mean by "It would explain the miraculous healing of his legs?" What would explain that?

Daniel's mind was healed by the island, and Rose's cancer was healed by the island as well.

Also, I'm still trying to understand one thing... After (dead/reincarnated) John has come back to the island with his whole new boatload of confidence and understanding of the island,  it seems that the island (or, at least, he told Ben and Richard Alpert) is literally telling him what to do, and we are under the impression that the island told John to go and kill Jacob. If Jacob were John in the future, why would the island tell John to kill himself?
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 07, 2009, 11:06:57 PM
the picture is showing up for me, too.

As for Locke being Jacob and the island telling him to kill himself.... well, the island said before that he had to die. And Locke, knowing he had to die, told Richard to tell himself that. So it's not that crazy to me that he would kill himself again if the island told him to.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: patrixmith on May 07, 2009, 11:11:39 PM
Yeah, nothing is too crazy for me to fathon with this show. I'm still just trying to think of any possible reasons as to why the island would tell him to do that, if it were himself.

Any ideas? (IF Jacob is John in the future)
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 07, 2009, 11:12:14 PM
We know that John has been told over and over that he is special...and if his purpose is to become Jacob, he would need his legs...anyone else who has been healed somehow has a purpose on the island.  That must mean that tptb aren't done with Rose (or Bernard, I would assume.)

As for John's comment about killing Jacob (I don't think John is aware of who Jacob is), I don't think his motive is to literally kill him.  Someone said in another topic that John may be trying to kill the idea of Jacob, and show his new found people that there really is nothing but clever mind tricks going on in the cabin.

John never said the island told him to kill Jacob, he said the island told him when he would come out of the jungle with a bullet in the leg.  


Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 07, 2009, 11:17:46 PM
Oh, and I also think that Jacob is wearing a hooded ensemble in the picture...I do not think it is hair.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: patrixmith on May 07, 2009, 11:19:51 PM
John never said the island told him to kill Jacob, he said the island told him when he would come out of the jungle with a bullet in the leg.  

True, he never actually said that, but for some reason (I'm sure this was the writers' objective) I am convinced by John's newfound confidence and knowledge of EXACTLY what to do, that we are to assume that John is being told what to do by the island.

Maybe that's not true, but that's just the sense that I get by the way his part is being played.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: patrixmith on May 07, 2009, 11:21:21 PM
Oh, and I also think that Jacob is wearing a hooded ensemble in the picture...I do not think it is hair.

Haha, nice! Maybe...

Gosh, I just want it to be John Locke so badly. That would just blow my mind... The show would by 10x better if it turned out that way.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: tonysee200x on May 07, 2009, 11:30:05 PM
I don't know if John Locke is Jacob, Maybe.....

But I don't think it makes sense to compare the pictures, I mean wasn't it confirmed that is one of the Extra/stage hand that played Jacob in that scene. I am pretty sure it was not the actor that plays Locke (can't think of his name).

But I don't think that ruins the theory or anything, just can't tell anything from the 1 frame picture we got in that scene
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 07, 2009, 11:32:08 PM
Even so, they could have an extra who looks similar to John for that reason.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: Asmodean on May 07, 2009, 11:34:33 PM
The Jacob in the chair was played by Rob Kyker.  

The voice was Calton Cuse.

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Rob_Kyker

Interesting theory though still if that's set aside.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 07, 2009, 11:45:27 PM
HM- there aren't 2 Lockes on the Island right now.  Locke with a bullet in his leg "poofed" & is the same Locke that was killed by Ben & resurrected by the Island.

I don't think that Locke is going to literally kill Jacob.  I think his plan is to dispel (what he believes to be) the myth of Jacob.

Rob Kyker played Jacob in s3, because either the Jacob character hadn't yet been cast OR to keep Jacob's identity safe until closer to the end of the series.

While I don't think that Locke is Jacob, I do think that he has become/ could become/ is becoming a Jacob-like figure.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 08, 2009, 12:00:26 AM
We know that people can exist in a time with their past selves...and just because Locke's past self poofed because of the time jump, that doesn't in any dispel the idea that he could be Jacob.

I also mentioned above that I don't think John's intention is to "physically" kill Jacob.

Since tptb used two different people in creating Jacob, it makes sense that it would be to disguise who Jacob is.  It's been said in interviews that tbtb already knew the basic outline of the story, the big events, and the ending when they went into it---so, since Jacob is an important piece of the LOST puzzle...I think it would be safe to assume that tptb had already decided on Jacob's true identity.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 08, 2009, 12:06:35 AM
whoohoo!  You're like Mango-defensive on this one! ;D
We know that people can exist in a time with their past selves...and just because Locke's past self poofed because of the time jump, that doesn't in any dispel the idea that he could be Jacob.  I only pointed it out to help separate the facts from the speculations.

I also mentioned above that I don't think John's intention is to "physically" kill Jacob.
I know.  I was agreeing. :)
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 08, 2009, 12:24:19 AM
Being compared to Mango?  I'm humbled. lol ;) ;)
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: LoniZeppelin on May 08, 2009, 01:40:40 AM
jacob=jack
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 08, 2009, 01:54:59 AM
jacob=jack
Evidence, dude. Otherwise people will skip over your post.... won't take it seriously.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: LoniZeppelin on May 08, 2009, 02:09:25 AM
jacob=jack
Evidence, dude. Otherwise people will skip over your post.... won't take it seriously.

sorry im on my ps3 ..... it takes awhile to type... istarted anew thread called who is jacob
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 08, 2009, 02:20:39 AM
Don't think so, dude.

I've read posts saying he is...and none of it is convincing.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: LoniZeppelin on May 08, 2009, 02:24:55 AM
Don't think so, dude.

I've read posts saying he is...and none of it is convincing.

im not a dude ....and you read posts that who is what????
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 08, 2009, 02:28:55 AM
No offense intended... dude is a relative term around here.

I think the Monkey means that she's read theories speculating that Jacob is Jack.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: The_Hatch_Monkey on May 08, 2009, 02:49:56 AM
No offense intended... dude is a relative term around here.

I think the Monkey means that she's read theories speculating that Jacob is Jack.

Yes.  That is what I meant.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: Asmodean on May 08, 2009, 09:58:44 AM
No offense intended... dude is a relative term around here.
 

Like Meat of Nugget.  It does help when someone includes their gender in the block that asks for gender though.
I'm just saying. 8)
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: BobBX542 on May 08, 2009, 12:18:24 PM
Hatch monkey, I am so with you on this. In a certain respect. I believe that Locke is Jacob. I have been saying it for two years ever since we saw Jacob in the cabin. I stuck to my guns even after they told us that neither the actor we saw, or the voice we heard was Locke. Your reasoning is kind of loose to me, but it is justified. Good work.


jacob=jack
Evidence, dude. Otherwise people will skip over your post.... won't take it seriously.

sorry im on my ps3 ..... it takes awhile to type... istarted anew thread called who is jacob

If you're on there often enough that you're accessing Sledgeweb, check this out...

http://www.amazon.com/Playstation-3-Cordless-MediaBoard-Keyboard/dp/B000MFLBBK/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&qid=1241795290&sr=8-4

Perfect keyboard for this. No preperation required. Plug the wireless receiver into the USB port, turn on the keyboard, and type away. One of the better accessories I have bought for my PS3.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: LostinAlaska on May 13, 2009, 02:05:01 AM
jacob=jack
Evidence, dude. Otherwise people will skip over your post.... won't take it seriously.

NO! I take it seriously! I like this idea! LoL (you know how crazy I am MrsA) but I will blindly go along w/ Jacob being Jack. My reasoning is terrible other then Jack is "starting to sound like you know who" according to Kate. And Jack's passion for the island, "We have to go back, Kate! We have to go back!" I realize they wanted to help the ones that stayed on the island, but Jack was awfully crazy about finding the island. Idk... if Jacob is Jack I will be happy about it.

As for Locke being Jacob, totally. I thought the same thing HM, but without the intellect behind it (kindof how I feel bout Jack being Jacob). But Locke being Jacob just makes sense...almost predictable for some reason to me? I still wonder why Richard did that weird test on little Locke... do we know why yet? Gah. I will wait for something mind blowing tomorrow night. What if Locke takes the people to "Jacob" and just says, "I'm actually Jacob!"? I mean since no one has seen Jacob maybe Locke could get away with it even if he's not actually Jacob.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: Blitz Wing on May 13, 2009, 04:24:30 AM
I think it's possible Jacob could be future Locke.....whatever is happening in present time will lead resurrected Locke going back in time yet again to pre-1954 and being Jacob all along. Who knows if Locke ages anymore after he's been resurrected. And it would kind of like the compass.
Title: Re: Why I think John Locke is Jacob....
Post by: Writers_Strike on May 13, 2009, 07:38:03 AM
On the Jack=Jacob side of things, I was looking through old pics on ABC and thought about it when I saw Jack from season premiere. I do not think this is true, just trying to offer a little evidence for this theory. I think Jacob was unintentionally invented by Locke when he mentioned it to Richard in 1954. That is why and how he is going to "kill" Jacob.
(http://a.abc.com/media/primetime/lost/images/season/5/episodes/501/gallery/11.jpg)(http://lost.cubit.net/assets_c/2008/01/3x20jacoblives-thumb-470x261.jpg)