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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x15 => Topic started by: jphimself on May 07, 2009, 02:45:20 PM

Title: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: jphimself on May 07, 2009, 02:45:20 PM
Just after Locke convinces the Others to follow him to see Jacob, the following dialog between Richard and Ben occurs:

"RICHARD: [To Ben, confidentially] I'm starting to think John Locke is gonna be trouble.

BEN: Why do you think I tried to kill him?"

(Thanks to Lostpedia for the transcript.)

I take this exchange to mean that Richard and Ben are together manipulating John into this leadership role for some unknown reason, and are now wondering if he will be more trouble than he is worth.  Perhaps this is a conclusion that Ben had already reached.

Ben, then, despite outward appearances, remains in the driver's seat, at least as master manipulator in chief.

Any thoughts on what is really going on from Richard and Ben's perspective?
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: grizn0 on May 07, 2009, 02:51:22 PM
Ben and Richard do have a kind of weird relationship. It being RIchard who decided to take Ben to the temple and save his life. And even before that, telling him he can be an other in the woods.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: Novashannon on May 07, 2009, 02:57:29 PM
Richard is the advisor to the Leader; Ben used to be the Leader.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: grizn0 on May 07, 2009, 02:59:48 PM
But I think jp is saying there is more to their relationship than just that. And I agree.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: Novashannon on May 07, 2009, 03:01:15 PM
Maybe they have a special relationship because Richard saved his life?  Or caused his life to be saved?
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: WhatThe on May 07, 2009, 03:03:22 PM
I don't think they're manipulating Locke into a leadership role. Richard went and visited Locke as a child before Ben was even born, which hints at him always having an interest in having Locke on the island. I do think, though, that Ben himself was trying to manipulate Locke's natural ascension to leader to his own advantage.

I think the exchange between Richard and Ben was more a reflection of Richard momentarily confiding in his past leader than a peek into some ulterior plan they have going on concerning Locke. It could also point to maybe they both knowing something about Jacob that they don't want known. That could be their shared conspiracy, I suppose.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: grizn0 on May 07, 2009, 03:12:45 PM
I just keep thinking back to Walt's dream he said he had about a group of people surounding Locke about to "harm" him.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: opgelost on May 07, 2009, 03:26:23 PM
Ilana's group is there too and Widmore mentioned a big war.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: jib22 on May 07, 2009, 03:53:32 PM
I think that, since John's return to the island, things are quite different between these three men. Locke oozes self assurance and determination. This leads me to think he may know more (for whatever reason) than either Richard or Ben. He is telling them exactly how things are going to be, rather than the other way around. He seems to be not only in control of things, but one step ahead of them. It's apparent they are a bit shaken by it.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 07, 2009, 04:25:35 PM
Well, Richard stole his innocence, so...  ::)
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: RM on May 07, 2009, 05:18:06 PM
Yeah, if Locke 2007 is the one who told Richard when/where to find time-jumper Locke with the bullet wound and what to tell him about the compass, then what does Richard really know on his own?  His previous notions about the specialness of John Locke only come from being visited by him in 1954 and having him disappear before his eyes.

They're hinting that Jacob might not even be real.  No conclusive evidence that Richard even used the name Jacob before Locke visited him in 1954 (only that the name didn't seem to surprise him).  (But somebody was sitting in the chair and somebody said "Help me" to John.)

I mostly got the impression that at least Richard knows what he's got with Ben, like it or not.  This new purposeful Locke is certainly a different persona than either of them has encountered at any other time period.

Not that Richard or Ben ever completely knew everything that was always going on, but at least they were the ones who knew more than anybody else.  Now, for the first time, there's somebody who knows more than they do.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: jphimself on May 07, 2009, 05:29:17 PM
I don't think they're manipulating Locke into a leadership role. Richard went and visited Locke as a child before Ben was even born, which hints at him always having an interest in having Locke on the island. I do think, though, that Ben himself was trying to manipulate Locke's natural ascension to leader to his own advantage.

I think the exchange between Richard and Ben was more a reflection of Richard momentarily confiding in his past leader than a peek into some ulterior plan they have going on concerning Locke. It could also point to maybe they both knowing something about Jacob that they don't want known. That could be their shared conspiracy, I suppose.

Let's not forget that when Richard tested Locke as a child, he failed the test.

Others may have a sharper memory of events in Locke's life than me, but I can't think of an independent source that in any way confirmed Locke's leadership qualities.  Mostly, the source of this is Ben.  He told John he was to be the new leader, later confirmed by Richard.  It was Ben who told him his father must die first and that he would have to die to bring everyone back to the Island.

Suppose Jacob does not exist.  That he was totally a fiction of Ben and other leaders used to keep the group in line.  Suppose further that when John "sees" Jacob, that tells Ben that he is the most susceptible person to Ben's constant suggestions of his leadership qualities.  As we all know, until this return to the Island, John was never a leader.  He learned his leadership skills during his time on Island as he grew into his new Ben-given identity.

I still think that the short conversation between Ben and Richard could not have occurred if they had absolutely no control over John's assent to leadership.  Saying that he is going to be trouble for them implies that they had other choices and that somehow they still have control over the bigger picture and may be using John as the figurehead who will be available to be sacrificed in whatever conflict lies ahead.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: jphimself on May 07, 2009, 05:37:08 PM
One further thought...When John says he is going to kill Jacob, he may be telling us that he knows there is no Jacob and that he is going to become the supreme Jacob-killing Leader par excellence.  That is, even though he was manipulated into leadership, he has now assumed the full kick-all potential to truly become the real leader of this Island band for this epoch.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: Shivy on May 07, 2009, 06:19:03 PM
I don't know where this show is going with these 3
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: Novashannon on May 07, 2009, 06:25:03 PM
I just keep thinking back to Walt's dream he said he had about a group of people surounding Locke about to "harm" him.
Didn't he say "men in suits," griz?
We also know Jacob exists because we saw him!  Locke has aways had a special connection to the island.It kind of reminds me of how leaders in ancient times were connected to the land.  You could not be leader if you were lame or crippled, because your health was the health of the land.  That is why they had seven-year kings; the older king had to die for the good of the land, because the leader needed to be young and strong.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: ButtercupSaiyan on May 07, 2009, 06:40:48 PM
Whoo...

I think Richard and Ben might still be in cahoots.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: ukslim on May 08, 2009, 07:55:55 AM
Let's not forget that when Richard tested Locke as a child, he failed the test.

Remind me how we know that.

Richard /said/ something about not being what they were looking for, and left the house. But what Richard says and what he thinks are two different things.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: GUTZandRAGE on May 08, 2009, 08:43:55 AM
Just after Locke convinces the Others to follow him to see Jacob, the following dialog between Richard and Ben occurs:

"RICHARD: [To Ben, confidentially] I'm starting to think John Locke is gonna be trouble.

BEN: Why do you think I tried to kill him?"

(Thanks to Lostpedia for the transcript.)

I take this exchange to mean that Richard and Ben are together manipulating John into this leadership role for some unknown reason, and are now wondering if he will be more trouble than he is worth.  Perhaps this is a conclusion that Ben had already reached.

Ben, then, despite outward appearances, remains in the driver's seat, at least as master manipulator in chief.

Any thoughts on what is really going on from Richard and Ben's perspective?

My opinion on the subject is that the whole Jacob bit is being kept secret for a reason. Perhaps for the best. Ben understood it while he lead, and Alpert understands it completely. John doesn't simply want to see Jacob, that didn't seem to bother Alpert. John wanted EVERYONE to meet Jacob. That, to Alpert, was problematic at best.

But Ben is not on Richard's side. He tried to turn John against him real quick. This time John wasn't falling for it.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: Maddog13 on May 08, 2009, 09:04:03 AM
quote]Didn't he say "men in suits," griz?[[/quote]

Could mean Dharma suits and its our losties trying to stop locke (who is also a lostie).
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: grizn0 on May 08, 2009, 10:09:42 AM
WALT: I've been having dreams about you. You were on the Island, wearing a suit, and there are people all around you. They wanted to hurt you, John

From Lostpedia transcript. I guess Locke was the one wearing the suit in his dream. Wonder what it means?
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 08, 2009, 12:29:47 PM
For everyone that is basing Richard's sudden lack of knowledge on the issue surround the bullet in Locke's leg, keep something in mind. We didn't just find out that Locke told Richard that. The first time we saw the scene, Ricahrd said to Locke that John told him that he was there with a bullet in his leg. Richard didn't just know that. It has seemed that in certain situations that Richard did just happen to know certain things, but he had to find them out somehow.

As far as the friendship/relationship between Richard and Ben, well, it seems almost like business as usual. The only thing that is different is that Ben isn't in charge anymore. I think when Richard said to Ben that Locke might be trouble, it was mainly because of habit. Richard used to talk to Ben about these things before, and now Ben is standing right there, so why NOT confide in him??
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: grizn0 on May 08, 2009, 02:25:21 PM
That's what I got from it too. Although it was funny how Richard said "What is HE doing here" when he first saw Ben.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 08, 2009, 03:31:03 PM
That's what I got from it too. Although it was funny how Richard said "What is HE doing here" when he first saw Ben.

True, probably because he knows (somehow) that Ben turned the wheel, and knows that whoever does that, shouldn't be able to get back.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: lostlady on May 12, 2009, 09:46:38 AM
It was theorized in another thread by 'Shakey' that perhaps Ben is now following Smokey/Alex directions that Ben must do everything Locke says BUT Ben, being Ben, is manipulating Richard to not trusting Locke so that Richard and the others get rid of Locke and Ben wouldn't be blamed for it. I think it's a great theory and totallt something Ben would do!
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: grizn0 on May 12, 2009, 09:58:47 AM
Smokey would still know his true intentions though. He won't get off that easily.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 12, 2009, 11:24:10 AM
...and Richard's the one who said Locke was going to be a problem. Ben had said little to him, I think, by that point, so maybe Richard made up his own mind about Locke.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 12, 2009, 11:27:24 AM
Smokey would still know his true intentions though. He won't get off that easily.

Intentions and actions are two different things though. If Ben manipulates Richard and the others into killing Locke, that was their choice. I can try my damndest to get person A to kill Person B, but ultimately, it's Person A's choice.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: grizn0 on May 12, 2009, 11:36:40 AM
Smokey would still know his true intentions though. He won't get off that easily.

Intentions and actions are two different things though. If Ben manipulates Richard and the others into killing Locke, that was their choice. I can try my damndest to get person A to kill Person B, but ultimately, it's Person A's choice.
True. But if Ben is the major influence behind the decision, is he not still somehoe responsible?
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 12, 2009, 11:43:07 AM
Ben has to be reallllllly careful about how he goes about this whole Locke business now. Smokey/Alex told him not to harm Locke, but to follow his direction. So Ben is going to figure out a way to do that, but at the same time, find loopholes as to how he can NOT do that at the same time.

I don't think it will be easy for him to manipulate Richard or the Others, since Locke seems to have already won over the group of them by taking them to Jacob, and Richard seems to have already made up his mind about things (and he's probably one of the only people who understand how Ben's mind works, I think. He knows Ben's tricks first-hand).
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 12, 2009, 12:15:23 PM
Smokey would still know his true intentions though. He won't get off that easily.

Intentions and actions are two different things though. If Ben manipulates Richard and the others into killing Locke, that was their choice. I can try my damndest to get person A to kill Person B, but ultimately, it's Person A's choice.
True. But if Ben is the major influence behind the decision, is he not still somehoe responsible?

He does hold some of the responsibility, but the bottomline (to me anyway) is that it would who ever actually decided to kill him, and did it.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: grizn0 on May 12, 2009, 12:33:52 PM
Smokey would still know his true intentions though. He won't get off that easily.

Intentions and actions are two different things though. If Ben manipulates Richard and the others into killing Locke, that was their choice. I can try my damndest to get person A to kill Person B, but ultimately, it's Person A's choice.
True. But if Ben is the major influence behind the decision, is he not still somehoe responsible?

He does hold some of the responsibility, but the bottomline (to me anyway) is that it would who ever actually decided to kill him, and did it.

Fair enough. I guess we'll have to see if he does still want John dead.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 12, 2009, 12:47:15 PM
Smokey would still know his true intentions though. He won't get off that easily.

Intentions and actions are two different things though. If Ben manipulates Richard and the others into killing Locke, that was their choice. I can try my damndest to get person A to kill Person B, but ultimately, it's Person A's choice.
True. But if Ben is the major influence behind the decision, is he not still somehoe responsible?

He does hold some of the responsibility, but the bottomline (to me anyway) is that it would who ever actually decided to kill him, and did it.

Fair enough. I guess we'll have to see if he does still want John dead.

Well smokey did say that it knew Ben was planning on killing him again. Maybe he lost that thought/desire after Smokey said it would come for him.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: grizn0 on May 12, 2009, 02:08:57 PM
Yeah... I know I would. That thing scares the heck outta me and I'm just watching a tv show! lol...
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: LostinLock on May 12, 2009, 02:13:52 PM
Ben the master of manipulation and Richard is not far behind him.  He has survived for many years for reasons.  If Dick falls prey to Ben's manipulation it will be interesting but somehow I am not sure he will.

 ;D
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: lovinlost on May 12, 2009, 03:13:56 PM
Can I just say thank goodness I finally got on the site!  Was it down all day yesterday?  I could not, for the life of me, get the site to load so I had to find other places to get my Lost fix.  Let's just say, it was not my favorite experience.  Nobody knows what the heck is going on out there!

so glad to be back here where you all at least have a brain to think with!
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: lovinlost on May 12, 2009, 03:25:53 PM
Just after Locke convinces the Others to follow him to see Jacob, the following dialog between Richard and Ben occurs:

"RICHARD: [To Ben, confidentially] I'm starting to think John Locke is gonna be trouble.

BEN: Why do you think I tried to kill him?"

(Thanks to Lostpedia for the transcript.)

I take this exchange to mean that Richard and Ben are together manipulating John into this leadership role for some unknown reason, and are now wondering if he will be more trouble than he is worth.  Perhaps this is a conclusion that Ben had already reached.

Ben, then, despite outward appearances, remains in the driver's seat, at least as master manipulator in chief.

Any thoughts on what is really going on from Richard and Ben's perspective?

My opinion on the subject is that the whole Jacob bit is being kept secret for a reason. Perhaps for the best. Ben understood it while he lead, and Alpert understands it completely. John doesn't simply want to see Jacob, that didn't seem to bother Alpert. John wanted EVERYONE to meet Jacob. That, to Alpert, was problematic at best.

But Ben is not on Richard's side. He tried to turn John against him real quick. This time John wasn't falling for it.

My thoughts exactly!  I rewatched the "test" ep the other day and thought it was interesting.  Maybe Locke passed, but Richard had his understanding wrong.  Kind of like the Jews not believing Jesus to be The Messiah because he was not the epitome of what a king should be.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: grizn0 on May 12, 2009, 04:17:01 PM
Yes, I think Richard was expecting him to choose the compass during the test. But he actually chose the "thing that already belonged to him"... his knife. He recieved the compass from Richard initially.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 12, 2009, 04:24:39 PM
If I remember, when I watched the "test" scene, it seemed like Richard thought Locke was going to choose the Book of Laws? That's what I always thought, anyway.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 12, 2009, 04:37:22 PM
If I remember, when I watched the "test" scene, it seemed like Richard thought Locke was going to choose the Book of Laws? That's what I always thought, anyway.

I got that feeling too. Expecially since the compass wasn't the same one if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 12, 2009, 04:42:42 PM
Right. But now that whole scene has me wondering.... how would Richard know what already belonged to Locke? Okay, the sand represents the island, yeah yeah I get it.... but technically the compass isn't Locke's (unless it's meant to be a more abstract representation of finding his way to the island, and not needing a compass after a few weeks being there, etc.). And I know that point's been discussed and pummeled. But what else would Richard know that John owns? How is Richard the expert here?
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 12, 2009, 05:24:56 PM
Right. But now that whole scene has me wondering.... how would Richard know what already belonged to Locke? Okay, the sand represents the island, yeah yeah I get it.... but technically the compass isn't Locke's (unless it's meant to be a more abstract representation of finding his way to the island, and not needing a compass after a few weeks being there, etc.). And I know that point's been discussed and pummeled. But what else would Richard know that John owns? How is Richard the expert here?

It is sort of a loaded question, unless the answer has nothing to do with the compass or the knife.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: hyperform on May 12, 2009, 07:42:39 PM
I have a theory that I posted in my thread, but I figured here would be more appropriate, I think Richard is going to attempt to kill Locke with Ben at his side, but at the last minute, Ben will double cross Richard and kill him to save Locke.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 12, 2009, 07:43:20 PM
NOOOOO! You're tainting all the threads!!!!  lololol
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: opgelost on May 13, 2009, 06:37:45 AM
Right. But now that whole scene has me wondering.... how would Richard know what already belonged to Locke? Okay, the sand represents the island, yeah yeah I get it.... but technically the compass isn't Locke's (unless it's meant to be a more abstract representation of finding his way to the island, and not needing a compass after a few weeks being there, etc.). And I know that point's been discussed and pummeled. But what else would Richard know that John owns? How is Richard the expert here?

Richard got the compass from Locke in 1954 and when he tests Locke he thinks the compass is Locke's.
Locke has to choose the compass.
Richard doesn't know that he gave that compass to Locke in the future.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: LostinLock on May 13, 2009, 06:40:08 AM
As noted previously Locke comes to the island with a cache of knives that had to do with his walk about.
This has been his "theme/thread" right along.  

Is he a hunter or farmer?  
as a child he choose the knife - he now leads them to kill Jacob.

The knife is significant.  If in fact Richard was seeking their next leader and or Jacob he would want someone who would abide by the rules/laws.  I am thinking Locke will end up advisor not a Jacob.

My two cents ;)
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 13, 2009, 11:01:38 AM
I have a theory that I posted in my thread, but I figured here would be more appropriate, I think Richard is going to attempt to kill Locke with Ben at his side, but at the last minute, Ben will double cross Richard and kill him to save Locke.

Ohhhh man, that would be shockingly awesome. I just hope they give more of Richard's history before that happens (if it does).

As noted previously Locke comes to the island with a cache of knives that had to do with his walk about.
This has been his "theme/thread" right along.  

Is he a hunter or farmer?  
as a child he choose the knife - he now leads them to kill Jacob.

The knife is significant.  If in fact Richard was seeking their next leader and or Jacob he would want someone who would abide by the rules/laws.  I am thinking Locke will end up advisor not a Jacob.

My two cents ;)

You know, I've always wondered ever since I saw Walkabout, why did Locke have a suit case full of knives for the Walkabout?? I mean I can understand bringing one or two hunting knives, maybe even a Swiss army knife as well, but he had like 23 knives. Was he planning on sharing?? Weird if you ask me.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: opgelost on May 13, 2009, 12:14:26 PM
Richard was right that the knife was the wrong choise.
Now Locke wants to kill Jacob.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: LostinLock on May 13, 2009, 12:20:48 PM
Foreshadowing all along.  It was the wrong choice from Richards perspective.  But it was John's correct choice, his destiny. 

BobX - I always remembered that and when I had viewed that scene with Richard it always struck me as odd.  Never verbalized on here, but we were chatting about that this past weekend.

I also find it odd that Richard does not recall these things he did in the past.  As if he did them but went on forgetting.  I would imagine at one point he would say to Locke, so do you remember me?  I also find it odd that John Locke does not recall him or the Mittlelos camp etc.

It could be the writers just brain burping or it will be pulled together later. 

The answers are right in front of our faces, I just know they are ;D
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 13, 2009, 12:34:03 PM
Foreshadowing all along.  It was the wrong choice from Richards perspective.  But it was John's correct choice, his destiny. 

BobX - I always remembered that and when I had viewed that scene with Richard it always struck me as odd.  Never verbalized on here, but we were chatting about that this past weekend.

I also find it odd that Richard does not recall these things he did in the past.  As if he did them but went on forgetting.  I would imagine at one point he would say to Locke, so do you remember me?  I also find it odd that John Locke does not recall him or the Mittlelos camp etc.

It could be the writers just brain burping or it will be pulled together later. 

The answers are right in front of our faces, I just know they are ;D

Well, I think that Richard never asked him that stuff (in 2004) because he knew that the Locke he met all those times prior was actually jumping through time, so he wouldn't remember it...I think. LOL

Edit-Just to clarify, when I say "...he wouldn't remember it", by "he" I mean Locke.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: grizn0 on May 13, 2009, 12:37:29 PM
Foreshadowing all along.  It was the wrong choice from Richards perspective.  But it was John's correct choice, his destiny. 

BobX - I always remembered that and when I had viewed that scene with Richard it always struck me as odd.  Never verbalized on here, but we were chatting about that this past weekend.

I also find it odd that Richard does not recall these things he did in the past.  As if he did them but went on forgetting.  I would imagine at one point he would say to Locke, so do you remember me?  I also find it odd that John Locke does not recall him or the Mittlelos camp etc.

It could be the writers just brain burping or it will be pulled together later. 

The answers are right in front of our faces, I just know they are ;D

Well, I think that Richard never asked him that stuff (in 2004) because he knew that the Locke he met all those times prior was actually jumping through time, so he wouldn't remember it...I think. LOL
That makes sense. He tells him "the next time you see me I won't remember you."
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: BobBX542 on May 13, 2009, 12:48:34 PM
Foreshadowing all along.  It was the wrong choice from Richards perspective.  But it was John's correct choice, his destiny. 

BobX - I always remembered that and when I had viewed that scene with Richard it always struck me as odd.  Never verbalized on here, but we were chatting about that this past weekend.

I also find it odd that Richard does not recall these things he did in the past.  As if he did them but went on forgetting.  I would imagine at one point he would say to Locke, so do you remember me?  I also find it odd that John Locke does not recall him or the Mittlelos camp etc.

It could be the writers just brain burping or it will be pulled together later. 

The answers are right in front of our faces, I just know they are ;D

Well, I think that Richard never asked him that stuff (in 2004) because he knew that the Locke he met all those times prior was actually jumping through time, so he wouldn't remember it...I think. LOL
That makes sense. He tells him "the next time you see me I won't remember you."

But that was also after Locke had started flashing through time, so it made more sense than if he just said that randomly.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: grizn0 on May 13, 2009, 12:56:20 PM
Foreshadowing all along.  It was the wrong choice from Richards perspective.  But it was John's correct choice, his destiny. 

BobX - I always remembered that and when I had viewed that scene with Richard it always struck me as odd.  Never verbalized on here, but we were chatting about that this past weekend.

I also find it odd that Richard does not recall these things he did in the past.  As if he did them but went on forgetting.  I would imagine at one point he would say to Locke, so do you remember me?  I also find it odd that John Locke does not recall him or the Mittlelos camp etc.

It could be the writers just brain burping or it will be pulled together later. 

The answers are right in front of our faces, I just know they are ;D

Well, I think that Richard never asked him that stuff (in 2004) because he knew that the Locke he met all those times prior was actually jumping through time, so he wouldn't remember it...I think. LOL
That makes sense. He tells him "the next time you see me I won't remember you."

But that was also after Locke had started flashing through time, so it made more sense than if he just said that randomly.
Yeah for sure. And back then we were meant to believe that Richard knew all this by himself somehow. Which he didn't.
Title: Re: What Is The True Nature of Richard and Ben's Relationship?
Post by: LostinLock on May 18, 2009, 08:29:18 PM
Foreshadowing all along.  It was the wrong choice from Richards perspective.  But it was John's correct choice, his destiny. 

BobX - I always remembered that and when I had viewed that scene with Richard it always struck me as odd.  Never verbalized on here, but we were chatting about that this past weekend.

I also find it odd that Richard does not recall these things he did in the past.  As if he did them but went on forgetting.  I would imagine at one point he would say to Locke, so do you remember me?  I also find it odd that John Locke does not recall him or the Mittlelos camp etc.

It could be the writers just brain burping or it will be pulled together later. 

The answers are right in front of our faces, I just know they are ;D

Well, I think that Richard never asked him that stuff (in 2004) because he knew that the Locke he met all those times prior was actually jumping through time, so he wouldn't remember it...I think. LOL

Edit-Just to clarify, when I say "...he wouldn't remember it", by "he" I mean Locke.
yes, I understood.  But Richard remembered he had met him previously he says that to Jack