Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x15 => Topic started by: Chuckie on May 07, 2009, 01:24:23 AM

Title: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: Chuckie on May 07, 2009, 01:24:23 AM
Ok. I'm going to preface this by saying: I know they're played by different actresses.

I also want to say, that for timeline purposes, I am assuming that Eloise was barely pregnant with Daniel, when she shot him. (What a strange sentence)

In 1977, we see Eloise shoot her son Daniel. Assuming that she is, in fact, pregnant with Daniel at that point, that means he was born in '77-'78. Chronologically, the next Eloise we see, is when Daniel is playing the piano, and she asks about the metronome. I would put him at about 10 years old. Which puts us in approximately 1987. Daniel was made a professor at Oxford in 1996. We see her at his graduation in approximately 1995. We next see Eloise at the Church/LampPost in 2007.

Now, as I said. I know that this character is played by two different actresses. And, as you'll notice in my handy visual aid

(http://i40.tinypic.com/2hpjcyx.jpg)

they do look alike. However, it seems strange that TPTB would make no attempt to hide that our Mrs. Hawking aged 30 years, somewhere in a span of time between '87 and '95. However...I have a theory.

[Suddenly, there is a loud crash behind the bench Ms. Hawking and Desmond have been sitting on. Some scaffolding has fallen and killed the man with red shoes.]

DESMOND: Oh, my God. You knew that was going to happen, didn't you? [she nods] Then why didn't you stop it? Why didn't you do anything?

MS. HAWKING: Because it wouldn't matter. Had I warned him about the scaffolding tomorrow he'd be hit by a taxi. If I warned him about the taxi, he'd fall in the shower and break his neck. The universe, unfortunately, has a way of course correcting. That man was supposed to die. That was his path just as it's your path to go to the island. You don't do it because you choose to, Desmond. You do it because you're supposed to.


I think this conversation, from Flashes Before Your Eyes, is the beginning of Eloise's story, and "For the first time in a long time, I don't have any idea what's going to happen" is the end of that same story.

I think that Eloise pushed Daniel so hard to be a physicist, and stop thinking about girls, and stop ****ing with the piano, not because she knew it was her destiny to shoot him. She did this because she knew that one day, he would figure out how to manipulate time. She also knew, of course, that she was going to shoot her son. However, I think sometime between '87 and '95 Mrs. Hawking began traveling through time herself, trying to fix her mistake. Once Daniel got all his knowledge, and Mrs. Hawking learned everything she could from how the Island works, this is how she's spent every moment. Trying to go back and change her mistake. And I think that her "present self" aged as she tried over and over and over again to fix her mistake, as her "present self" got older and older and older.

This is also how she knows about "course correction" and is so ambivalent toward the Man With The Red Shoes. If  you're dead, you're dead. No matter what. If you go to an island to press a button, that's what you do. If you shoot your son, that's what you do. No matter what.

But once they...jiggled the handle on the island, her ability to Time Travel stopped. Something went wrong. So now she's going to have to find out what happens next. She knew that, in 2007, her son would die at her hand. So for however long, she traveled back and forth through time, trying to change what happened. Trying to make any change that would correct her mistake.


This is actually two of my separate theories about Eloise mashed into one. My "How Eloise aged 30 years, in a span of less than 10" theory and my "Course Correction knowledge as a result of experience" theory.

Any feedback is welcome, and as always, I hope this makes sense.
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: BadRobot64 on May 07, 2009, 01:27:38 AM
you know what.... it actually does make alot of sense... and very plausible . congrats...
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: simeean on May 07, 2009, 01:31:24 AM
i totally agree.... the aging bit has been bothering me too, i just kind of didn't want to start thinking about a completely new eloise story, thank you for doing it for me!   ::)
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 07, 2009, 02:33:54 AM
Yeah, that's a huge difference between 1987 and 1995. If she was 17 in 1954, she would be 50 in 1987, and 58 in 1995. The 1987 picture looks MUCH younger than 50, and the 1995 pic looks MUCH older than 58. Ahhhh, I don't know what to think!
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: norville on May 07, 2009, 02:42:15 AM
I have pondered the "Course Correction knowledge as a result of experience" theory a few times myself... I like it, and it would make sense in a way.  However, I will be rather surprised if it goes this direction.  If Jack's plan actually works, and they detonate the bomb, then of course we may never know.  :-(
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: Chuckie on May 07, 2009, 02:49:42 AM
Yeah, that's a huge difference between 1987 and 1995. If she was 17 in 1954, she would be 50 in 1987, and 58 in 1995. The 1987 picture looks MUCH younger than 50, and the 1995 pic looks MUCH older than 58. Ahhhh, I don't know what to think!

Just a something-to-think-about: the actress who plays Mrs. Hawking, is actually 67 years old. The actress who plays 77Eloise, is 37. They're exactly 30 years apart in age.
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: razzle-dazzle on May 07, 2009, 06:27:09 AM
I think once again Darlton didn't put everything together when planning this. They should have made 1987 Eloise look older.
It's just a mistake because they had to use different actresses.

I do think that Eloise must get her knowledge from something other than Daniel's book and Jack. Dan didn't know about Desmond buying  the ring and the guy with the red shoes dying.
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: Asmodean on May 07, 2009, 11:46:25 AM
I wonder if she pressed her other son, Brother Campbell, as hard as she did Daniel... :o
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: BobBX542 on May 07, 2009, 01:11:28 PM
This isa very well thought out theory. I really like it, and I hope you're proved somewhat right. But, I don't know about jumping on board with it. I just have a hard time with believing a theory just because it seems more likely that the casting agent wasn't thinking.
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: Novashannon on May 07, 2009, 01:47:05 PM
I like the theory, but don't think it is necessary.  People age at different rates, and some people who look young, suddenly look their ages or older. 
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: WhatThe on May 07, 2009, 01:55:33 PM
I think once again Darlton didn't put everything together when planning this. They should have made 1987 Eloise look older.
It's just a mistake because they had to use different actresses.

I do think that Eloise must get her knowledge from something other than Daniel's book and Jack. Dan didn't know about Desmond buying  the ring and the guy with the red shoes dying.

I agree, I think it's just either a casting mistake or they just didn't consider the timeline thoroughly enough when shooting the scenes because they could have easily made the 1987 Eloise look much older.

The thing is, though, from what Eloise said herself, her appearance does indeed match the years EXCEPT for 1987...to me that points more to poor planning by the writers/director than anything else. Eli was 17 in 1954...that makes her 40 in 1977 when she shoots Daniel.That makes her 70 in 2007, which she does look 70 now. That would make her 59 in 1996, and she looks close enough to that age in my eyes. The only inconsistency is 1987, where they should have made her look around 50. Who knows, maybe they feel they DID make her look around 50 lol.

At any rate the ages all coincide rather well except for one brief scene with Daniel at the piano. It could simply be that they didn't feel the need to be as detailed in Eli's appearance during that one scene.
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: Novashannon on May 07, 2009, 01:59:16 PM
I've seen fifty-year-olds who look better and those who look worse,  Her looks are not out of line for the age!
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 07, 2009, 02:02:52 PM
But to age that much in 8 years? That's rough.
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: Des on May 07, 2009, 02:06:13 PM
Regardless of whether or not this is incorporated into the show, I really like your idea.
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: WhatThe on May 07, 2009, 02:29:13 PM
But to age that much in 8 years? That's rough.

Hey, did you see how much DANIEL aged in those 8 years? lol :)
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: Holland34 on May 07, 2009, 02:41:34 PM
But to age that much in 8 years? That's rough.

Makes me think of the old phrase, "Rode hard and put away wet."  (Which probably sounds even worse than intended.)
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: powerful on May 08, 2009, 03:34:38 PM
But to age that much in 8 years? That's rough.

Makes me think of the old phrase, "Rode hard and put away wet."  (Which probably sounds even worse than intended.)

Actually the piano scene does not necessarily take place in 1987. The assumption of Daniel being 10 needs not hold.
He could be only 7-8 when he starts his music hobbies.

And is it confirmed that Eloise gives Daniel the journal in 1996? I think it could be later than that. Then Eloise could look older.

What is bothering me is that Charlotte is much older than Daniel !!
How come Daniel is still in the embryo in 1977 while Charlotte is having chocolate before dinner!

Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: BobBX542 on May 08, 2009, 03:39:50 PM
But to age that much in 8 years? That's rough.

Makes me think of the old phrase, "Rode hard and put away wet."  (Which probably sounds even worse than intended.)

Actually the piano scene does not necessarily take place in 1987. The assumption of Daniel being 10 needs not hold.
He could be only 7-8 when he starts his music hobbies.

And is it confirmed that Eloise gives Daniel the journal in 1996? I think it could be later than that. Then Eloise could look older.

What is bothering me is that Charlotte is much older than Daniel !!
How come Daniel is still in the embryo in 1977 while Charlotte is having chocolate before dinner!



Well, it is possible that Elloise isn't pregnant with Daniel at that point. Maybe he's already been born. I personally think that it is Daniel, and have no other explanation.
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: Gutterball94 on May 08, 2009, 05:36:03 PM
I also want to say, that for timeline purposes, I am assuming that Eloise was barely pregnant with Daniel, when she shot him. (What a strange sentence)

That's an epic sentence.  ;D
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: Shivy on May 12, 2009, 04:01:12 PM
you know what.... it actually does make alot of sense... and very plausible . congrats...

Sorry haven't read the whole thread, so I apologize if it's been said, but:

I don't think your dates are right.  In 1977 Daniel is born. He wouldn't have graduated as a Physicist from Oxford until he was around 25+, which is 2002+.  So I don't think she was time traveling, wouldn't Daniel think it's odd that his mother aged that quickly? 

I say Daniel was around 7 when we saw Eloise for the second time, or 1984, which is 18 years before 2002 and plenty of time to go all gray and wrinkly.
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 12, 2009, 04:19:56 PM
But Daniel says that he was the youngest person ever to graduate/be made a professor at Oxford (sorry can't remember exact dialogue), so I don't know what age they want us to believe that he during that flashback. He was already a professor there when Desmond met him, and that was in... 1996? So the scene with Eloise, Daniel, and Theresa has to have taken place before Dan meets Des in 1996. Right?  ???

But like you, I'm also not entirely convinced that she's pregnant with Daniel at this point. He could be born and older, but we only have hints, no real evidence. tptb like to lead us on.
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: fulcigento on May 12, 2009, 04:42:39 PM
Daniel said he was the youngest doctorate to ever graduate from Oxford.  I read an article that says most students begin their doctorates at around 21.  So if he was the youngest ever graduate...how old would he be?  21, 22?  If he were 22 when he graduated in 1995 that would mean he was born around 1973.  If thats the case, he'd be around the same age as Charlotte and perhaps presently living as a 4 year old with the others/hostiles in 1977. 

Maybe he will see his future dead self and that is the reason why he was seen crying when his character was first introduced in Season 4.  He saw himself DEAD!!!
Title: Re: The unusual aging of Eloise Hawking and her Course Correction knowledge.
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on May 12, 2009, 04:47:36 PM
I could go with him being 21 or 22 when he graduates Oxford.