Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x14 => Topic started by: Schmokey on April 29, 2009, 11:43:18 PM

Title: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Schmokey on April 29, 2009, 11:43:18 PM
So what was Eloise doing at the hospital talking to Penny?   It doesn't make any sense to go and talk to Penny just to explain about Daniel being her son and Desmond wouldn't have been shot if he hadn't come to see her.  And I don't think it's a guilt thing... she has other stuff she could feel guilty about!   Maybe she wanted to know if Desmond would live.  He might have another part to play in the Island saga ??
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Roman122 on April 29, 2009, 11:45:17 PM
Yeah, I think its the fact that she wanted to make sure Desmond was okay. I get this from Widmore asking her outside, "is he all right?" and her confirming it. I think she talked to Penny to maybe get some more info... For what I don't know
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Gar O Mac on April 29, 2009, 11:49:14 PM
I think she was scared because she didn't know how it was going to turn out and since she always knows what's going to happen she was unsure what to do.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: hyperform on April 29, 2009, 11:50:16 PM
It totally reminded me of a scene in the movie Last Action Hero, where Death comes out of the movie screen, and comes to see AHnold, and say "I was just curious, He's not on any of my lists" because he was a fictional character

Like she said, this is the first time she didn't know what was going to happen, I think maybe a different time line is coming, or it is at least possible, because she can't see what is going to happen anymore.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Folly529 on April 30, 2009, 12:02:53 AM
Maybe she wanted to know if Desmond would live.  He might have another part to play in the Island saga ??

Didn't she tell him while they were at the Lighthouse that the Island wasn't finished with him yet?
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: userh6478 on April 30, 2009, 12:04:34 AM
I know this will sound weird but i still feel like that there son, Desmond is..
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: jugdish on April 30, 2009, 12:05:34 AM
Desmond must still be very important to the overall story. They wanted to make sure he is still alive to play his role, whatever that is going to end up being.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: hyperform on April 30, 2009, 12:06:51 AM
I know this will sound weird but i still feel like that there son, Desmond is..
why are you speaking like Yoda?

also, Ew, I'm okay with Shannon and Boone doing it, because they were not blood related, but that is gross, Little Charlie would have an extra row of teeth
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on April 30, 2009, 02:37:51 AM
I think she was there because she knows that Desmond goes back to the island at some point.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: razzle-dazzle on April 30, 2009, 04:34:06 AM
I think she was there because she knows that Desmond goes back to the island at some point.

Please no!  ;)
However, Ellie knows more about Des than Dan did. Maybe that's how.

I felt that Ellie feels guilty about how her and Charles have used Des.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Writers_Strike on April 30, 2009, 07:41:46 AM
Anyone else see the Princess Leia look a like on the TV at the hospital?
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: soulska on April 30, 2009, 07:56:23 AM
could it be that penny and daniel are related??  ;)
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Writers_Strike on April 30, 2009, 08:00:33 AM
Well if Charles is Penny's dad and Charles is Daniel's dad, Then yes they are related.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: soulska on April 30, 2009, 08:34:47 AM
Well if Charles is Penny's dad and Charles is Daniel's dad, Then yes they are related.
i know that, twins perhaps? i dont recall penny ever talking about her mother. seperated at birth???
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Writers_Strike on April 30, 2009, 08:39:06 AM
No, we learned from a flashback that Charles had a daughter with an outsider on the main land. Eloise was an other on the island, same dad different moms.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: soulska on April 30, 2009, 08:40:44 AM
No, we learned from a flashback that Charles had a daughter with an outsider on the main land. Eloise was an other on the island, same dad different moms.
strike my theory...   :D
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: lostlady on April 30, 2009, 08:42:48 AM
I know this will sound weird but i still feel like that there son, Desmond is..

I don't think he is their son but I think he is someone extremely important to them. Otherwise Eloise wouldn't have come to the hospital. What confuses me is that she said she doesn't know what will happen in the future anymore yet she did tell Desmond the island wasn't finished with him. How, if she doesn't know the future, does she know this? Again, I believe Desmond is someone who is connected in a big way to the island--just don't know how yet.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: grizn0 on April 30, 2009, 08:45:45 AM
She always knew what was coming up until now. As she stated to Penny. I think the reason why she was at the hospital was because she never thought Desmond would get shot by Ben. And this could be an indication that things have already changed in some capacity.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Writers_Strike on April 30, 2009, 08:50:30 AM
Desmond is the son of Richard- Just throwing that out there in case it ends up being true.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Des on April 30, 2009, 10:17:14 AM
She always knew what was coming up until now. As she stated to Penny. I think the reason why she was at the hospital was because she never thought Desmond would get shot by Ben. And this could be an indication that things have already changed in some capacity.

Those were the original thoughts I had as I was watching, but then afterwards, I kept second guessing myself for some reason...?
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: vickilynn on April 30, 2009, 10:17:57 AM
Desmond is the son of Richard- Just throwing that out there in case it ends up being true.

They are my two favorite guys...so I like your theory!
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: grizn0 on April 30, 2009, 11:45:12 AM
She always knew what was coming up until now. As she stated to Penny. I think the reason why she was at the hospital was because she never thought Desmond would get shot by Ben. And this could be an indication that things have already changed in some capacity.

Those were the original thoughts I had as I was watching, but then afterwards, I kept second guessing myself for some reason...?
Only because they've shoved "whatever happened happened" down our throats so much. I think they'll change something, if something hasnt already changed. Like I said in the other thread. If its a loop and it'll just keep happening over and over again... then I will be super pissed.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Des on April 30, 2009, 11:47:21 AM
She always knew what was coming up until now. As she stated to Penny. I think the reason why she was at the hospital was because she never thought Desmond would get shot by Ben. And this could be an indication that things have already changed in some capacity.

Those were the original thoughts I had as I was watching, but then afterwards, I kept second guessing myself for some reason...?
Only because they've shoved "whatever happened happened" down our throats so much. I think they'll change something, if something hasnt already changed. Like I said in the other thread. If its a loop and it'll just keep happening over and over again... then I will be super pissed.

Exactly. It seems as though something MUST be changed. Otherwise, what's the point? (On the other hand, I think those who write for LOST are brilliant and do not deny that perhaps they could indeed come up with a decent story where nothing changes). I think this might be where we point back and say, "SEE! Something changed. Eloise didn't know this was going to happen."
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: grizn0 on April 30, 2009, 11:49:24 AM
She always knew what was coming up until now. As she stated to Penny. I think the reason why she was at the hospital was because she never thought Desmond would get shot by Ben. And this could be an indication that things have already changed in some capacity.

Those were the original thoughts I had as I was watching, but then afterwards, I kept second guessing myself for some reason...?
Only because they've shoved "whatever happened happened" down our throats so much. I think they'll change something, if something hasnt already changed. Like I said in the other thread. If its a loop and it'll just keep happening over and over again... then I will be super pissed.

Exactly. It seems as though something MUST be changed. Otherwise, what's the point? (On the other hand, I think those who write for LOST are brilliant and do not deny that perhaps they could indeed come up with a decent story where nothing changes). I think this might be where we point back and say, "SEE! Something changed. Eloise didn't know this was going to happen."
That was exactly my thought last night when she said she didn't know what was going to happen next. It means something has changed!
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Novashannon on April 30, 2009, 11:54:50 AM
I think she was scared because she didn't know how it was going to turn out and since she always knows what's going to happen she was unsure what to do.
Clearly, she has, till now, been operating from the knowledge the Losties gave her in 1977.  Now she is beyond the point that they knew, so she is no longer eerily knowledgable about the future.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Writers_Strike on April 30, 2009, 12:12:56 PM
She always knew what was coming up until now. As she stated to Penny. I think the reason why she was at the hospital was because she never thought Desmond would get shot by Ben. And this could be an indication that things have already changed in some capacity.

Those were the original thoughts I had as I was watching, but then afterwards, I kept second guessing myself for some reason...?
Only because they've shoved "whatever happened happened" down our throats so much. I think they'll change something, if something hasnt already changed. Like I said in the other thread. If its a loop and it'll just keep happening over and over again... then I will be super pissed.

Exactly. It seems as though something MUST be changed. Otherwise, what's the point? (On the other hand, I think those who write for LOST are brilliant and do not deny that perhaps they could indeed come up with a decent story where nothing changes). I think this might be where we point back and say, "SEE! Something changed. Eloise didn't know this was going to happen."

Why couldn't Dan just walk away after seeing Charolette? Thats all he had to do to prove you can change things. But no our little hero has to do what he already did and go get shot.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: grizn0 on April 30, 2009, 12:14:44 PM
I don't think he expected to get shot though. I think he truely thought he was going to be able to find the bomb, talk to Eloise, and all that. He had no idea it would be her to shoot him and he never thought she would.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Novashannon on April 30, 2009, 12:29:50 PM
For a smart guy, he sure was dumb!  Yeah; I'll just walk into camp, tell a young lady that she is my mom, and explain that we have to DETONATE A BOMB!  Yeah, that'll work.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: grizn0 on April 30, 2009, 12:31:19 PM
What else could he do though? He has to try something no matter how ridiculous it sounded.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Novashannon on April 30, 2009, 12:52:02 PM
If he really wanted to change something, he could just not have talked to Charlotte.  No trying to talk to Mommy; no detonating ordinance; no necessary evacuation.  Just don't talk to charlotte and you make a change. 
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: grizn0 on April 30, 2009, 12:55:22 PM
That is a change, yes. But all that would have done is ensure that if he didn't succeed in stopping the incident, she would surely die. So he covered his tracks on that one. A large scale change like stopping the incident would take presedence over a minor change like not talking to Charlotte.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Des on April 30, 2009, 01:03:13 PM
I think though that even if he had NOT talked to Charlotte, the universe would have course corrected and something else would have caused her to grow up wanting to return to the island.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Novashannon on April 30, 2009, 01:07:07 PM
I think though that even if he had NOT talked to Charlotte, the universe would have course corrected and something else would have caused her to grow up wanting to return to the island.
I agree.  But Daniel was trying to change the future, and I think that even a small change would have a ripple effect.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: grizn0 on April 30, 2009, 01:09:34 PM
I think though that even if he had NOT talked to Charlotte, the universe would have course corrected and something else would have caused her to grow up wanting to return to the island.
I agree.  But Daniel was trying to change the future, and I think that even a small change would have a ripple effect.
In some time travel stories (like The Butterfly Effect) it does. But in others (like Back To The Future) only certain things will cause changes. Marty McFly interacted with a bunch of people in the past and probably made some small things happen a different way (like rocking out to Johnny be good at the end) but in the end his parents were still together in the future and he still existed. So, the question is, what type of time travel are we watching?
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Des on April 30, 2009, 01:10:17 PM
I think though that even if he had NOT talked to Charlotte, the universe would have course corrected and something else would have caused her to grow up wanting to return to the island.
I agree.  But Daniel was trying to change the future, and I think that even a small change would have a ripple effect.

What do you mean?
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: userh6478 on April 30, 2009, 01:47:28 PM
Its soo funnny how both Charles and Elosie seem to both generally seem to care, like mother and father would be..he must be something really special..
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Novashannon on April 30, 2009, 02:12:31 PM
I think though that even if he had NOT talked to Charlotte, the universe would have course corrected and something else would have caused her to grow up wanting to return to the island.
I agree.  But Daniel was trying to change the future, and I think that even a small change would have a ripple effect.

What do you mean?

TPTB have stipulated that whatever happened, happened, and I think they should stick to it.  But if Daniel believes that he can change things, then even a small change would change things. 
I will try to think of a good example, so bear with me.  Suppose you are going for a walk, and on the way out you notice that the dryer cycle has finished.  You decide that the laundry can wait till after your stroll, so you walk down the street at 8:05 and get caught in the middle of a gang shootout.  You get shot.  Now, suppose that you decide to fold the laundry before you go, because it will get less wrinkled that way and you also want to get to the bookstore to see your favorite author speak.  You fold the laundry, and put it away.  Now you are walking at 8:25 and the gangwar has finished, so you don't get shot.  that tiny difference of whether or not you fold the laundry has changed your life.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: RM on May 01, 2009, 12:17:51 AM
Well, Jack refused to help save Ben and let the Island's will be done.  Sayid thought he could change the past and kill Ben -- didn't take.  First, Daniel tells the time-jumpers they can't even interact with anyone who didn't remember meeting them before so nobody even tries.  Then, he comes back saying they really can change things -- he intervenes and tells Marvin Chang that adult Miles is his son from the future (but does this really change anything that didn't happen the first time around?)  He thinks he can change things, but goes ahead and gives Charlotte the warning anyway.  He thinks he's changing the past by going to see his mother in '77 but apparently is only fulfilling what happened the first time around.  No evidence yet that they really can change anything.

------

Eloise must talk to Jack and Kate in 1977 and find out that their return is the reason Dan comes back to the Island after leaving for the mainland in 1974.  So getting them on Ajira 316 in 2007 fulfills the last piece of foreknowledge that she has, completing the circle that leads to her shooting her own son.  "For the first time I don't know what's going to happen", to me, means that she's run out of foreknowledge based on previous interactions with time-jumpers.  Whether Desmond lives or dies is probably not part of anything else she knows about.

To me, all that "you're not supposed to leave" business that everybody kept telling the O6 is just because they still had time-jump interactions with Others in the past that hadn't taken place for them yet.  So they "had to" come back to the Island to fulfill what the Others feel like was always supposed to happen.

Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: LouE68 on May 01, 2009, 10:31:02 AM
So what was Eloise doing at the hospital talking to Penny?   It doesn't make any sense to go and talk to Penny just to explain about Daniel being her son and Desmond wouldn't have been shot if he hadn't come to see her.  And I don't think it's a guilt thing... she has other stuff she could feel guilty about!   Maybe she wanted to know if Desmond would live.  He might have another part to play in the Island saga ??
Am I missing something...she's talking to Pen, then a black screen says 13 years earlier, Daniel climbing out of a sub, then them discussing being in 1977....1977+13 years is? 1990? what happened???
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: grizn0 on May 01, 2009, 10:33:31 AM
So what was Eloise doing at the hospital talking to Penny?   It doesn't make any sense to go and talk to Penny just to explain about Daniel being her son and Desmond wouldn't have been shot if he hadn't come to see her.  And I don't think it's a guilt thing... she has other stuff she could feel guilty about!   Maybe she wanted to know if Desmond would live.  He might have another part to play in the Island saga ??
Am I missing something...she's talking to Pen, then a black screen says 13 years earlier, Daniel climbing out of a sub, then them discussing being in 1977....1977+13 years is? 1990? what happened???
Pretty sure it said 30 years earlier...
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: LouE68 on May 01, 2009, 10:35:52 AM
So what was Eloise doing at the hospital talking to Penny?   It doesn't make any sense to go and talk to Penny just to explain about Daniel being her son and Desmond wouldn't have been shot if he hadn't come to see her.  And I don't think it's a guilt thing... she has other stuff she could feel guilty about!   Maybe she wanted to know if Desmond would live.  He might have another part to play in the Island saga ??
Am I missing something...she's talking to Pen, then a black screen says 13 years earlier, Daniel climbing out of a sub, then them discussing being in 1977....1977+13 years is? 1990? what happened???
Pretty sure it said 30 years earlier...
Ok whew, I thought I was losing it...just rewatched lol
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Des on May 01, 2009, 10:40:26 AM
I think though that even if he had NOT talked to Charlotte, the universe would have course corrected and something else would have caused her to grow up wanting to return to the island.
I agree.  But Daniel was trying to change the future, and I think that even a small change would have a ripple effect.

What do you mean?

TPTB have stipulated that whatever happened, happened, and I think they should stick to it.  But if Daniel believes that he can change things, then even a small change would change things. 
I will try to think of a good example, so bear with me.  Suppose you are going for a walk, and on the way out you notice that the dryer cycle has finished.  You decide that the laundry can wait till after your stroll, so you walk down the street at 8:05 and get caught in the middle of a gang shootout.  You get shot.  Now, suppose that you decide to fold the laundry before you go, because it will get less wrinkled that way and you also want to get to the bookstore to see your favorite author speak.  You fold the laundry, and put it away.  Now you are walking at 8:25 and the gangwar has finished, so you don't get shot.  that tiny difference of whether or not you fold the laundry has changed your life.

Oooh, makes perfect sense now. I work better with examples. Thanks.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: ukslim on May 01, 2009, 10:54:11 AM
that tiny difference of whether or not you fold the laundry has changed your life.

More movies to check out - Sliding Doors, and Run Lola Run.

(Spoilers  - not Lost spoilers - ahead)

Sliding Doors tells two versions of a romance. In one version of the story the heroine just gets on a train before the door closes, in the other she misses the train. All because of a tiny pause (can't remember, to do her shoelaces?). Her whole life unfolds differently.

Run Lola Run is about a girl racing from her flat to rescue her boyfriend. The story is retold several times, each time working out in a drastically different way because she handles tripping over a guy in the stairwell a different way.

But! Neither of these films discuss whether it's just "what if" or whether these are genuine alternate realities branching off. The Lost approach so far is that there is only one timeline, and you can't vary it.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: jamesl on May 01, 2009, 12:09:43 PM
Run Lola Run was freaking awesome !
its in german, so make sure you get the subtitled one and not the dubbed one,
it doesn't look right or sound right dubbed

Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: BobBX542 on May 01, 2009, 12:19:10 PM
When we look at the amount of time Mrs. Hawking was at the hospital, she was really only there for what, 5 minutes?? To talk to Penny about why Desmond got shot, and basically give her a cryptic message about the island. As she leaves, she looked to me to have a very suspicious look on her face, so I think that she was baiting Desmond back to the island through Penny, and that as a matter of fact, she does know what's going to happen.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Des on May 01, 2009, 12:20:35 PM
When we look at the amount of time Mrs. Hawking was at the hospital, she was really only there for what, 5 minutes?? To talk to Penny about why Desmond got shot, and basically give her a cryptic message about the island. As she leaves, she looked to me to have a very suspicious look on her face, so I think that she was baiting Desmond back to the island through Penny, and that as a matter of fact, she does know what's going to happen.

That could very well be. I kept being reminded of what Abaddon said his job was -- "to get people where they needed to be." It seems to me that is also what Eloise is/has been doing.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: mrose4243 on May 01, 2009, 02:35:17 PM
I found it interesting that Desmond is brought to the hospital 'coding' - looks serious enough that he's gonna die.

Eloise shows up and suddenly Desmond is in the recovery room.  Meanwhile (!) in 1977, her son Daniel is dying from a gunshot wound inflicted by Eloise.

Did Eloise have something to do with keeping Desmond alive?  Charles is outside the hospital all concerned about a son-in-law that he supposedly hates, and is relieved that he's going to be ok, and he doesn't even try to see Penny!

Something fishy is going on with this, and it's driving me nutz that I don't know what it is!

Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: grizn0 on May 01, 2009, 02:51:51 PM
You know, every since the outside the hospital scene with Charles and Eloise I've been thinking that Charles actually doesn't hate Desmond. He said he had to sacrifice his relationship with his daughter and I think the reason why he was so dissaproving of Des is because he needed to be to push Desmond to do what he needed to do. And he needed to push Penny away from him and to Desmond in order for her to be safe.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Des on May 01, 2009, 02:57:31 PM
You know, every since the outside the hospital scene with Charles and Eloise I've been thinking that Charles actually doesn't hate Desmond. He said he had to sacrifice his relationship with his daughter and I think the reason why he was so dissaproving of Des is because he needed to be to push Desmond to do what he needed to do. And he needed to push Penny away from him and to Desmond in order for her to be safe.

Exactly. By "hating" Desmond, he in turn loses his daughter, who he truly cares about. I think the whole "you don't make enough money so I disapprove of you" is nothing but a charade. The result? Desmond enters the race around the world and winds up on the island.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: Shakey on May 01, 2009, 03:11:02 PM
Something that bothers me is that the gunshot seemed to hit Desmond in a non-critical location.  Hell, he gets up and beats the crap out of Ben.  Then, he's in critical condition at the hospital???  I'm sorry but adrenaline will only do so much.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: mrose4243 on May 01, 2009, 03:15:58 PM
Ah, yes!  Thank you for that.  I should have seen that:  'go away I hate you' really means 'I love you so much that I'll sacrifice my relationship with you to keep you safe'.

This is making me think that no matter how evil some of these characters are portrayed, there's a good reason for them to act the way they do.  We've seen it with Ben, Eloise, and even Charles - who I thought was more evil than Ben!

I really like how the show gives us the 'black' and 'white' - but then throws them together to make these 'gray' areas.

I still have a feeling that Eloise had something to do with Desmond's super quick recovery, though!
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: MangoBingo on May 01, 2009, 04:18:06 PM
You know, every since the outside the hospital scene with Charles and Eloise I've been thinking that Charles actually doesn't hate Desmond. He said he had to sacrifice his relationship with his daughter and I think the reason why he was so dissaproving of Des is because he needed to be to push Desmond to do what he needed to do. And he needed to push Penny away from him and to Desmond in order for her to be safe.

Don't forget that Charles told Desmond, "It's not me who hates you" in the bathroom at the auction house. I thought it may have been Hawking whom hated Desmond, but now I really don't have a clue.

Why was Widmore at the hospital? He could have just had his agents report back on Desmond's condition.  ???

The whole Hawking/Widmore scene was really odd.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: opgelost on May 01, 2009, 04:30:40 PM
Desmond's work on the island is not finished, both Widmore and Hawking didn't want him to die.
They were there to check if he would be ok. And Widmore was there because Ben called him
that he was going to kill Penny. I guess he went to L.A. immediatly after that phonecall.

Maybe Des has to go to the island to save their son, Daniel. Desmond is Daniel's constant.
And I never got why he is, because a constant is something you really care about.
If Des saves Daniel's life, Daniel will care about him and me too.
Title: Re: Eloise at the hospital
Post by: grizn0 on May 04, 2009, 11:26:29 AM
You know, every since the outside the hospital scene with Charles and Eloise I've been thinking that Charles actually doesn't hate Desmond. He said he had to sacrifice his relationship with his daughter and I think the reason why he was so dissaproving of Des is because he needed to be to push Desmond to do what he needed to do. And he needed to push Penny away from him and to Desmond in order for her to be safe.

Don't forget that Charles told Desmond, "It's not me who hates you" in the bathroom at the auction house. I thought it may have been Hawking whom hated Desmond, but now I really don't have a clue.

Why was Widmore at the hospital? He could have just had his agents report back on Desmond's condition.  ???

The whole Hawking/Widmore scene was really odd.
He did mean Penny. But the reason why Penny hated him at that moment was cause he left her. He ran away and joined the army. I figure Widmore knew that Penny needed to end up with Desmond. But he had to do it in a way that ensured Desmond (and maybe Penny later) return to the island to do their "work".