Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x12 => Topic started by: Tekkaman on April 14, 2009, 01:38:25 PM

Title: Dharma food drop
Post by: Tekkaman on April 14, 2009, 01:38:25 PM
Hi everybody,

I have been struggling with this ever since season 2 I believe. At a certain point there is large dharma crate with food dropped right in front of the losties. But as we all know Dharma was at that point no longer active on the island.
I visit this site frequent, but never saw an explanation or reference to this.
I know this is not directly related to season 5 but it keeps hurting my head.
So if anybody knows something that i missed....
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: Jas0n on April 14, 2009, 02:03:47 PM
Very good question.  I completely forgot about the food drops. Now that we are learning so much about the history of the island... its even more puzzling.  My theory is that the Swan station is the only station that received food drops, because the people inside didn't have time to pick up supplies. I am however confused as to where the food drops were coming from after the DHARMA Initiative was purged by "The Others". Maybe the food drops were coming from somewhere off the island? We know the Lamp Post has the ability to find the Island.  Someone was constantly pushing that button for a longtime, maybe the mystery food droppers didn't know that the DHARMA Initiative is gone until the Swan imploded. I could go on forever about that theory... but I'll spare you. :)
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: Tekkaman on April 14, 2009, 02:35:10 PM
The fact that there was a Dharma food drop means that at that point someone did the drop at the exact location. It could be Dharma thinking that station was still active, but that confuses me even more. But we know Dharma can find the Island through Miss Hawking'  dharma toys. So is it safe to conclude Dharma is still active but not willing to come back to the Island, but they do feel responsibable for any Dharma leftovers. They don't dare to come back to rescue any survivors, and dropping food packs is the least they can do?
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: grizn0 on April 14, 2009, 02:44:33 PM
I have a theory on the food drop we saw land on front of the losties but a lot of people will disagree with me. But I think it makes sense. Basically, the whole pushing of the button I think was done to hide the island from Widmore or anyone trying to find it. This is not the absurd part... this is. I feel the only way to really hide the island from someone who has access to the Lamp Post would be to hide it in time. I think the pushing of the button every 108 minutes reset the island to a certain point in time and would go through the same 108 minutes repeating istelf until the failsafe was turned. This could explain why the drops kept comming. How? Because the drop was the same drop over and over. The island was repeating a time when the drops still happened and one of those drops was during the time the island was repeating in.

Before you say anything, I am skeptical of this myself. So please feel free to dispute.  :)
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: tonysee200x on April 14, 2009, 02:46:08 PM
I always wondered if the drops were done long ago, but utilize the way time changes when the island is approached. So even though the drops were done in the past, they arrive at regular intervals in the future. -- So changes on the island like who is in charge and who actually gets the drops does not effect the delivery, it is already done.

(boy it is hard to pick what tense to write something like that, I hope it makes sense, I know what I mean and am not sure it makes sense to me)
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: BobBX542 on April 14, 2009, 03:49:53 PM
I have a theory on the food drop we saw land on front of the losties but a lot of people will disagree with me. But I think it makes sense. Basically, the whole pushing of the button I think was done to hide the island from Widmore or anyone trying to find it. This is not the absurd part... this is. I feel the only way to really hide the island from someone who has access to the Lamp Post would be to hide it in time. I think the pushing of the button every 108 minutes reset the island to a certain point in time and would go through the same 108 minutes repeating istelf until the failsafe was turned. This could explain why the drops kept comming. How? Because the drop was the same drop over and over. The island was repeating a time when the drops still happened and one of those drops was during the time the island was repeating in.

Before you say anything, I am skeptical of this myself. So please feel free to dispute.  :)

I always wondered if the drops were done long ago, but utilize the way time changes when the island is approached. So even though the drops were done in the past, they arrive at regular intervals in the future. -- So changes on the island like who is in charge and who actually gets the drops does not effect the delivery, it is already done.

(boy it is hard to pick what tense to write something like that, I hope it makes sense, I know what I mean and am not sure it makes sense to me)

It seems like you two are saying something similar, and griz that does make sense in a way, as does what you're saying tony. My thought on it is this, when Sawyer and crew were traveling through time with the flashes, it seemed as if no one but them could notice them, so maybe the drop happened at a time when the island was flashing, and it just got sent to 2004. I mean, if we're going to accept time travel on the show, these explanations make just as much sense.

The thing that has me thinking though is that in the episode where we see Ben kill his dad, doesn't he mention that they have to drop some supplies off at the Swan?? So my question is this then, if in order to get supplies to the Swan, all they had to do was drive there, at what point were the deliveries taken over by an air drop?? Must have been something they felt was strong or lethal enough to keep them away from the area, if not the whole island, and paint the "quarantine" on the inside of the hatch. Are we thinking post purge or no??
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: grizn0 on April 14, 2009, 03:52:23 PM
Good point Bob; it could have been post purge. Dharma most likely continued to operate for a period of time afterwards. The "hostiles" didn't know anything about The Swan last time I heard so, it is possible that Dharma had to change the delivery method after the purge. I also like the idea that a drop was made during the flashes and took it to 2004. Good thinking.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: BobBX542 on April 14, 2009, 03:55:29 PM
Good point Bob; it could have been post purge. Dharma most likely continued to operate for a period of time afterwards. The "hostiles" didn't know anything about The Swan last time I heard so, it is possible that Dharma had to change the delivery method after the purge. I also like the idea that a drop was made during the flashes and took it to 2004. Good thinking.

Everynow and then I churn out a good one. And let me clarify what I was saying before people start picking me apart. Since the only people that notice the flashes were the people going through them, if the food drop fell during a flash and was sent to the future, the survivors wouldn't have noticed the flash.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: grizn0 on April 14, 2009, 04:03:04 PM
Good point Bob; it could have been post purge. Dharma most likely continued to operate for a period of time afterwards. The "hostiles" didn't know anything about The Swan last time I heard so, it is possible that Dharma had to change the delivery method after the purge. I also like the idea that a drop was made during the flashes and took it to 2004. Good thinking.

Everynow and then I churn out a good one. And let me clarify what I was saying before people start picking me apart. Since the only people that notice the flashes were the people going through them, if the food drop fell during a flash and was sent to the future, the survivors wouldn't have noticed the flash.
That makes total sense. But they did see/hear the crate falling in the jungle right?
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: golfstrom on April 14, 2009, 04:07:47 PM
II think the pushing of the button every 108 minutes reset the island to a certain point in time and would go through the same 108 minutes repeating istelf until the failsafe was turned. This could explain why the drops kept comming. How? Because the drop was the same drop over and over. The island was repeating a time when the drops still happened and one of those drops was during the time the island was repeating in.


But wouldn't that mean that the food drops would happen once in every 108 minutes?
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: grizn0 on April 14, 2009, 04:08:49 PM
II think the pushing of the button every 108 minutes reset the island to a certain point in time and would go through the same 108 minutes repeating istelf until the failsafe was turned. This could explain why the drops kept comming. How? Because the drop was the same drop over and over. The island was repeating a time when the drops still happened and one of those drops was during the time the island was repeating in.


But wouldn't that mean that the food drops would happen once in every 108 minutes?

IF my theory was right then, yes. But I really don't think its exactly as I explain it. I did say I was skeptical of my own theory haha. But yeah, thats what I'm saying up there I guess.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: MangoBingo on April 14, 2009, 04:24:33 PM
Here's my theory from nearly a year ago...

http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=8046.msg405131#msg405131

It's a bit different to everybody else's theories.

I've snuck on the net at work! Yay!
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: BobBX542 on April 14, 2009, 04:27:46 PM
Good point Bob; it could have been post purge. Dharma most likely continued to operate for a period of time afterwards. The "hostiles" didn't know anything about The Swan last time I heard so, it is possible that Dharma had to change the delivery method after the purge. I also like the idea that a drop was made during the flashes and took it to 2004. Good thinking.

Everynow and then I churn out a good one. And let me clarify what I was saying before people start picking me apart. Since the only people that notice the flashes were the people going through them, if the food drop fell during a flash and was sent to the future, the survivors wouldn't have noticed the flash.
That makes total sense. But they did see/hear the crate falling in the jungle right?

Right, because the crate was forced into the time (if that's what happened) so it was actually there. But remember when they were asking how it got there, and that they didn't hear a plane or chopper or anything?? That would explain it...kinda.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: grizn0 on April 14, 2009, 04:32:12 PM
Good point Bob; it could have been post purge. Dharma most likely continued to operate for a period of time afterwards. The "hostiles" didn't know anything about The Swan last time I heard so, it is possible that Dharma had to change the delivery method after the purge. I also like the idea that a drop was made during the flashes and took it to 2004. Good thinking.

Everynow and then I churn out a good one. And let me clarify what I was saying before people start picking me apart. Since the only people that notice the flashes were the people going through them, if the food drop fell during a flash and was sent to the future, the survivors wouldn't have noticed the flash.
That makes total sense. But they did see/hear the crate falling in the jungle right?

Right, because the crate was forced into the time (if that's what happened) so it was actually there. But remember when they were asking how it got there, and that they didn't hear a plane or chopper or anything?? That would explain it...kinda.
I do remember that.

And Mango, while I don't disagree with your theory, I don't know if I can agree either. Ben being behind the food getting to the losties is possible. But if I remember correctly, the crate of food made a noise that drew the attention of the losties which brought them to find it. Thats why I'm thinking Bob's way in the sense that it fell "out of nowhere"... sucked through time.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: golfstrom on April 14, 2009, 04:33:31 PM
Here's my theory from nearly a year ago...

An interesting one, Mango. I just don't see how "preposterously long shelf-life" could possibly provide "the women of child-bearing age to remain healthy"

 ;) 

I've snuck on the net at work! Yay!

>>whisper<<
I've done the same thing earlier today  :-[
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: BobBX542 on April 14, 2009, 04:34:56 PM
Good point Bob; it could have been post purge. Dharma most likely continued to operate for a period of time afterwards. The "hostiles" didn't know anything about The Swan last time I heard so, it is possible that Dharma had to change the delivery method after the purge. I also like the idea that a drop was made during the flashes and took it to 2004. Good thinking.

Everynow and then I churn out a good one. And let me clarify what I was saying before people start picking me apart. Since the only people that notice the flashes were the people going through them, if the food drop fell during a flash and was sent to the future, the survivors wouldn't have noticed the flash.
That makes total sense. But they did see/hear the crate falling in the jungle right?

Right, because the crate was forced into the time (if that's what happened) so it was actually there. But remember when they were asking how it got there, and that they didn't hear a plane or chopper or anything?? That would explain it...kinda.
I do remember that.

And Mango, while I don't disagree with your theory, I don't know if I can agree either. Ben being behind the food getting to the losties is possible. But if I remember correctly, the crate of food made a noise that drew the attention of the losties which brought them to find it. Thats why I'm thinking Bob's way in the sense that it fell "out of nowhere"... sucked through time.

It didn't make a noise, the flashing light was what caught their attention.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: golfstrom on April 14, 2009, 04:36:08 PM
IF my theory was right then, yes. But I really don't think its exactly as I explain it. I did say I was skeptical of my own theory haha. But yeah, thats what I'm saying up there I guess.

Oh, I don't totally disagree :) For the lack of my own theory I'm just chewing on yours :)
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: MangoBingo on April 14, 2009, 05:47:24 PM
Here's my theory from nearly a year ago...

An interesting one, Mango. I just don't see how "preposterously long shelf-life" could possibly provide "the women of child-bearing age to remain healthy"

 ;)

This sort of issue arises in the real world, too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestlé_boycott
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: golfstrom on April 14, 2009, 06:04:11 PM

This sort of issue arises in the real world, too:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestlé_boycott

Yeah, I've read about it in my National Childbirth Trust magazine.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: MangoBingo on April 14, 2009, 06:13:01 PM
Anyway... Back to the food drops.

I'm personally more intrigued by the "why?", rather than the "how?"...

The D.I. could travel to and from the Island. The Others could travel to and from the Island.

Why the need for drops of supplies in the first place?
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on April 14, 2009, 06:17:31 PM
Anyway... Back to the food drops.

I'm personally more intrigued by the "why?", rather than the "how?"...

The D.I. could travel to and from the Island. The Others could travel to and from the Island.

Why the need for drops of supplies in the first place?
Well...I think the supplies (or at least some of them) had the Swan symbol on it? Maybe they had to keep up appearances so Desmond would stay put and push the button..
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: MangoBingo on April 14, 2009, 06:20:07 PM
Well...I think the supplies (or at least some of them) had the Swan symbol on it? Maybe they had to keep up appearances so Desmond would stay put and push the button..

I do think the food drops were maintaining an illusion - not necessarily solely for Desmond's benefit, but for the Others' lower ranks, like Juliet.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on April 14, 2009, 06:22:09 PM
Well...I think the supplies (or at least some of them) had the Swan symbol on it? Maybe they had to keep up appearances so Desmond would stay put and push the button..
I do think the food drops were maintaining an illusion - not necessarily solely for Desmond's benefit, but for the Others' lower ranks, like Juliet.
What kind of illusion? and for what purpose, do you think?   sorry! I always ask you more questions than I help answer, just cause I like to hear what you think...
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: Kinuvia on April 14, 2009, 06:25:05 PM
Over the weekend I was looking at some old posts and re-watching Season One.. Somewhere (too many sites, too many episodes) I saw a 'Dharma Training Video' with Marvin Candle (or whoever he was at the moment) saying that food drops would continue 'in perpetuity'... now I wish I could remember where/when I saw it.  I think it was in relation to a map of the Blast Door.. I was trying to read old info on Radzinksy when he was confined with the guy who dragged Desmond into the hatch. Maybe this is a partial explanation? (or maybe I overloaded on Lost this weekend and it had nothing to do with this??  ;)  )
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: toadsage on April 14, 2009, 06:27:35 PM
Anyway... Back to the food drops.

I'm personally more intrigued by the "why?", rather than the "how?"...

The D.I. could travel to and from the Island. The Others could travel to and from the Island.

Why the need for drops of supplies in the first place?

i think the drops were still made because prior to des turning the key, the swan was the only station not overrun by ben and his buddies. so the food was dropped to keep the inhabitants of the swan fed. or ben had the drops continued to keep desmond from dying and having the pulse(?) build up and do whatever would have happened if the button was not pressed. plus leaving des in there keeps him out of bens hair, and in the swan pushing the button. remember, the swan was locked from the inside. so ben had no way in, and even if he did, des would've killed a few of the others, and i dont think ben would want to sacrifice too many of his people to get the swan. forgive my rambling brain
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: MangoBingo on April 14, 2009, 06:36:49 PM
What kind of illusion? and for what purpose, do you think?   sorry! I always ask you more questions than I help answer, just cause I like to hear what you think...

To maintain the illusion that they were isolated from the rest of the world, first and foremost. The pretense that supplies had to be delivered, rather than brought back.

If Juliet, for instance, knew that Tom could come and go as he pleased, I don't think she would have been happy!!!
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: Bostonlost on April 14, 2009, 06:39:33 PM
I am always wondering about this


Could the drops behind the "enemy lines"? The line between Others and DI?

Could the drops be because DI thinks there might be survivors (insurgents) they know that the Swan is still occupied?

Maybe The Others were fooling the DI into thinking that the drops were still necessary?


My question is does Hawkins help/get paid to help find the Island for the drops?
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on April 14, 2009, 06:43:07 PM
What kind of illusion? and for what purpose, do you think?   sorry! I always ask you more questions than I help answer, just cause I like to hear what you think...
To maintain the illusion that they were isolated from the rest of the world, first and foremost. The pretense that supplies had to be delivered, rather than brought back.

If Juliet, for instance, knew that Tom could come and go as he pleased, I don't think she would have been happy!!!
All right...I get it! Okay, I like that.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: Maxor127 on April 14, 2009, 07:03:31 PM
The big question about the food drops is how they get there at all.  The island is supposed to be hidden and I'd imagine lots of calculations would need to be made to accurately drop food on an almost invisible, time-displacing island.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: golfstrom on April 14, 2009, 07:32:13 PM
Maybe it's a different kind of illusion though.

If you remember when Sayid and  Locke first meet Mikhail he presents himself as one of the last Dharma Initiative people, which we know he wasn't. He was the one though keeping in touch with the outside world.
Up until Desmond left the hatch there was in fact DI presence on the Island. Then John kindly filled in for Desmond.

We don't know anything about DI reports to the outside world so we don't know whether anyone outside the Island knew that the purge took place.
For what we know Widmore is connected with Mr. Paik's corporation which in turn is connected with Hanso Foundation but there was none information whatsoever that HF offcially acknowledged DI's existence on the Island as failed. But Charles Widmore doesn't have an interest in sharing the Island with anyone else. Sharing if he ever gots to come back, that is.
Also Eloise Hawking can be Others' "mole" in DI, or kind of a double agent. She keeps the Lamppost going and navigates DI's supplies and at the same time keeps wrong sort of people away from the Island.

So HF might still be thinking that there is DI on the Island. It would be them who would be kept in illusion.
I know it sounds all too simple for the fifth season but hey! why not ;)
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: Jas0n on April 14, 2009, 11:05:44 PM
Just about all of these ideas make sense, lol. The sad thing is we may never find out.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: opgelost on April 15, 2009, 09:10:34 AM
I thought: Hawking wants Desmond alive on the island to push the button and she knows
with the lamppost how to find the island, so she sends food when a window opens.

But, the blast doors came down when the food was dropped. I don't think they can do that from an helicopter.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: on the island on April 15, 2009, 09:18:51 AM
It seems like you two are saying something similar, and griz that does make sense in a way, as does what you're saying tony. My thought on it is this, when Sawyer and crew were traveling through time with the flashes, it seemed as if no one but them could notice them, so maybe the drop happened at a time when the island was flashing, and it just got sent to 2004. I mean, if we're going to accept time travel on the show, these explanations make just as much sense.

Maybe I am not understanding you properly  ???, but they had several interactions while flashing.  The whold Jughead episode, being shot at on the boat, Jin and Rousseau meeting. 

I like the idea of Ben being behind it.  I have no idea how though.  I would have to go back and watch the scene again.  I know the Swan locked down but don't rememeber how the other Losties found the supplies.  A good rule of thumb is when in doubt, blame Ben. 
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: BobBX542 on April 15, 2009, 10:32:47 AM
It seems like you two are saying something similar, and griz that does make sense in a way, as does what you're saying tony. My thought on it is this, when Sawyer and crew were traveling through time with the flashes, it seemed as if no one but them could notice them, so maybe the drop happened at a time when the island was flashing, and it just got sent to 2004. I mean, if we're going to accept time travel on the show, these explanations make just as much sense.

Maybe I am not understanding you properly  ???, but they had several interactions while flashing.  The whold Jughead episode, being shot at on the boat, Jin and Rousseau meeting. 

I like the idea of Ben being behind it.  I have no idea how though.  I would have to go back and watch the scene again.  I know the Swan locked down but don't rememeber how the other Losties found the supplies.  A good rule of thumb is when in doubt, blame Ben. 

I think I see where the confusion is....

It seems like you two are saying something similar, and griz that does make sense in a way, as does what you're saying tony. My thought on it is this, when Sawyer and crew were traveling through time with the flashes, it seemed as if no one but them (time traveling survivors) could notice them (The flashes), so maybe the drop happened at a time when the island was flashing, and it just got sent to 2004. I mean, if we're going to accept time travel on the show, these explanations make just as much sense.

Does that make more sense??
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: Tekkaman on April 15, 2009, 02:44:56 PM
I see possible answers, just have problems which to choose.
But I still believe Dharma does that for the DI survivors, because I think they know the Swan is still open for business, and they might even think more DI members took refuge in the Swan.
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: twogingerballs on June 15, 2009, 06:44:39 AM
For all you lost fans out there, there is a new website selling Dharma Initiative Food Rations on-line! From Chocolate to peanut butter! check it out:

www.dharmafood.co.uk
Title: Re: Dharma food drop
Post by: BobBX542 on June 16, 2009, 11:30:35 AM
For all you lost fans out there, there is a new website selling Dharma Initiative Food Rations on-line! From Chocolate to peanut butter! check it out:

www.dharmafood.co.uk

I like the "Mints with a hole" I might grab a few of those.