Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x10 => Topic started by: LOSTNightmaregk13 on March 30, 2009, 08:07:46 AM

Title: Still unexplained...
Post by: LOSTNightmaregk13 on March 30, 2009, 08:07:46 AM
again don't know if this was posted before or not
The Black Rock
-how did it got there..
also i built this theory back in season one, that the people who where in the ship became th others
silly isn't it?
and perhaps they made a connection with the people who where living there that built the well and the anubis statue and the temple (2 anhks actually)
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: Maxor127 on March 30, 2009, 08:42:38 AM
I think we're supposed to learn more about the statue by the end of the season, and I bet we'll eventually learn more about the Black Rock, how it came to be there, and the significance of it too.
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: Zinzi on March 30, 2009, 09:07:05 AM
I like the theories that claim the original Others (natives or call them what you will!) were originally crew from the Black Rock.  I'm just not sure how it all fits in with the statue etc though? 

I was rewatching the S4 finale and tried to get a good look at the rest of the Others who came to help Ben, but I didn't really get much of a look!  Someone posted that maybe we'll get another "Other 48 days" type episode about what's been going on with Richard and co since the island moved, that would be great!  We need one (or more) about their whole story though!

Lots of confusion about The Black Rocks history.  Some stuff from the ARGs contradicts what we were told in The Constant and so san't be taken as canon.  I just read the Lostpedia page about it and now I'm even more confused! 
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: jugdish on March 30, 2009, 10:07:02 AM
The fact that the island is always moving and the way we saw it disappear  explains the black Rock to me. It came on the island during one of the times the isalnd moved.
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: BobBX542 on March 30, 2009, 10:32:27 AM
The fact that the island is always moving and the way we saw it disappear  explains the black Rock to me. It came on the island during one of the times the isalnd moved.

Which probably means (the way I see it) that the crew of the Black rock can't be the original group of others, because who was on the island to make the island move in the first place?? The crew may have been assimilated, but I don't think they were the original.
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: SQUIRT199 on March 30, 2009, 11:30:50 AM
The fact that the island is always moving and the way we saw it disappear  explains the black Rock to me. It came on the island during one of the times the isalnd moved.

you believe me,

you really believe me,

I say same for Yemmi's plane
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: jphimself on March 30, 2009, 12:01:29 PM
Do we know for sure that the Island moves physically?  We know that it certainly moves through time, but is there any evidence that it moves from one geographic space to another?

We certainly saw it disappear from Faraday and company's view.  Is that "proof" that it is moving from place to place, as well as in time?  If it does move physically, what could be a possible scientific explanation for that.  After all, TPTB have said that there was, at least, a science-based theory that will explain everything.

Yes, I am in the camp that thinks they meant this and were not misdirecting the audience.
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on March 30, 2009, 12:35:04 PM
Yes, I think we know the island moves physically, though I forget how we know that. It's tucked into the part of my brain that holds things that are certain in Lost (it's a very small bin), instead of the sticky-noted white board of things that are uncertain.

I think maybe it's because of what Ms Hawking says? Then the chalkmarks on the Lamppost floor....for me, what seals the deal is that Ajira 316 was on its way from Hawaii to Guam, and that flight route isn't near where 815 crashed (if the pilot left from Sydney, lost the signal 6 (?) hours in, then turned around and flew for 2 more hours...jeez this sounds like a math word problem).

Also...I had a theory that the Swan and the FDW worked together to hold the island in space and time, so that moving the island physically would result in moving the island to the time when it was in that physical location. Kinda dumb, but I based it on the fact that the island is physically moving too.  :-\ *shrugging*
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: jphimself on March 30, 2009, 12:56:41 PM
Yes, I think we know the island moves physically, though I forget how we know that. It's tucked into the part of my brain that holds things that are certain in Lost (it's a very small bin), instead of the sticky-noted white board of things that are uncertain.

I think maybe it's because of what Ms Hawking says? Then the chalkmarks on the Lamppost floor....for me, what seals the deal is that Ajira 316 was on its way from Hawaii to Guam, and that flight route isn't near where 815 crashed (if the pilot left from Sydney, lost the signal 6 (?) hours in, then turned around and flew for 2 more hours...jeez this sounds like a math word problem).

Also...I had a theory that the Swan and the FDW worked together to hold the island in space and time, so that moving the island physically would result in moving the island to the time when it was in that physical location. Kinda dumb, but I based it on the fact that the island is physically moving too.  :-\ *shrugging*

Let's not forget, the Island would move physically if it moved through time simply because of the movement of the plates of the earth's crust.  If it jumped many years it would not be in the same "place" as before.

I got so nutso on this topic that I Googled the speed of plate tectonics and learned that the Pacific plate moves at the rate of 8 cm/year.  Hardly enough to notice, even after a move of a thousand years (80 meters), but maybe enough to "come up" under a boat that was moored just off shore.
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on March 30, 2009, 01:09:26 PM
So between 1977 and 2004, the island would have moved (tetonically speaking) 216 cm. But in 1977 and/or 2008, it was on the flightpath from HI to Guam, and in 2004 it was closer to Australia...
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: grizn0 on March 30, 2009, 01:30:09 PM
Dear Lord... is this what we're reduced to now? Figuring out how far the island would move in a thousand years based on techtonic plate movement? lol, this is pretty ridiculous. I am thinking the island moves physically due to the different points on the map in the lamp post. That's enough for me hehe.
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on March 30, 2009, 01:35:43 PM
Dear Lord... is this what we're reduced to now? Figuring out how far the island would move in a thousand years based on techtonic plate movement? lol, this is pretty ridiculous. I am thinking the island moves physically due to the different points on the map in the lamp post. That's enough for me hehe.
Me too...I was just trying to put a bit of scientific stuff into my post so's I'd sound smarter.  :P
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: grizn0 on March 30, 2009, 01:36:47 PM
Dear Lord... is this what we're reduced to now? Figuring out how far the island would move in a thousand years based on techtonic plate movement? lol, this is pretty ridiculous. I am thinking the island moves physically due to the different points on the map in the lamp post. That's enough for me hehe.
Me too...I was just trying to put a bit of scientific stuff into my post so's I'd sound smarter.  :P
Well you always sound smart to me anyway  ;)
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on March 30, 2009, 04:54:01 PM
Mrs Hawking tells us flat out that the island moves.  She said that they had to be on that plane at that time, because the plane will be flying right through the window into the island.
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on March 30, 2009, 06:02:45 PM
Dear Lord... is this what we're reduced to now? Figuring out how far the island would move in a thousand years based on techtonic plate movement? lol, this is pretty ridiculous. I am thinking the island moves physically due to the different points on the map in the lamp post. That's enough for me hehe.
Me too...I was just trying to put a bit of scientific stuff into my post so's I'd sound smarter.  :P
Well you always sound smart to me anyway  ;)
Aw! I got a nerdy blush now... *adjusts glasses*
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: Madam P on March 30, 2009, 07:10:39 PM
Dear Lord... is this what we're reduced to now? Figuring out how far the island would move in a thousand years based on techtonic plate movement? lol, this is pretty ridiculous. I am thinking the island moves physically due to the different points on the map in the lamp post. That's enough for me hehe.
Me too...I was just trying to put a bit of scientific stuff into my post so's I'd sound smarter.  :P

ROFL!   ;D

I'm impressed with your research into plate tectonics, jphimself!  I didn't think of doing that.  I was all into the theory you had anyway, though.   In my brain, however, I was picturing the island's "moving deal" as if, let's say, the island was on a puppet-string, and some Big Giant Hand picked it up off the earth so that earth's time could move on without it, and then plunked it back down again.  In that scenario, it would not only be plate tectonics to consider, but just the plain old rotation of the earth.  As time passes, the earth rotates, and if the island is somehow "separated" from the earth, it might or might not plunk back down at the same physical place.

Or something like that.  Hey, I never claimed to be a scientist!   :D

I'm with grizno -- the marks on Mrs. Hawking's chalkboard are good enough for me -- it moves physically.
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: LOSTNightmaregk13 on March 30, 2009, 07:20:02 PM
it's an iluuuuusiooooooonnnnnnnnnn :XD:
jk

don't know
i'll need a good plausible explanation
but yeah the idea of the natives being from the black rock seems preposterous
(well there goes my theory)
sides the egypcian references are starting to be plenty to consider my theory

also i remembered that Ben called Smokie to kill Widmore's crew
any thoughts on that?
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: jamesl on March 31, 2009, 02:53:17 AM
I think we're supposed to learn more about the statue by the end of the season...

the statue is a statue of Ben
Sayid's hand trembled at the thought of shooting a child, so he missed the chest and ended up shooting off Ben's toe
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: grizn0 on March 31, 2009, 08:49:56 AM
I think we're supposed to learn more about the statue by the end of the season...

the statue is a statue of Ben
Sayid's hand trembled at the thought of shooting a child, so he missed the chest and ended up shooting off Ben's toe

LOL James.

Another thing that was weird; and I know this was in the investigations but I'm not sure if we've discussed it, is the fact that inside the lamp post there is a board displaying longitude and latitude coordinates but they are backwards?!? The longitude numbers are in the latitude column and vica versa. What do you all think about that?
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: Zinzi on March 31, 2009, 09:06:19 AM
In my brain, however, I was picturing the island's "moving deal" as if, let's say, the island was on a puppet-string, and some Big Giant Hand picked it up off the earth so that earth's time could move on without it, and then plunked it back down again.  In that scenario, it would not only be plate tectonics to consider, but just the plain old rotation of the earth.  As time passes, the earth rotates, and if the island is somehow "separated" from the earth, it might or might not plunk back down at the same physical place.

Or something like that.  Hey, I never claimed to be a scientist!   :D

I'm with grizno -- the marks on Mrs. Hawking's chalkboard are good enough for me -- it moves physically.

That's what my poor muddled brain had in mind when I saw the pendulum and read about the Focault's pendulum Madam P.  I find it very hard to get my head around it all.  We know for a fact that the Lostees were moving in time (the island wasn't flashing they were), but does the island also move in time or does it just move in space?  Or does it just move in time and because of this it changes location because of the earth's rotation?  ???  We need Dan or Ms Hawking with a blackboard and a pointer to explain it all properly!
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: BobBX542 on March 31, 2009, 11:09:57 AM
In my brain, however, I was picturing the island's "moving deal" as if, let's say, the island was on a puppet-string, and some Big Giant Hand picked it up off the earth so that earth's time could move on without it, and then plunked it back down again.  In that scenario, it would not only be plate tectonics to consider, but just the plain old rotation of the earth.  As time passes, the earth rotates, and if the island is somehow "separated" from the earth, it might or might not plunk back down at the same physical place.

Or something like that.  Hey, I never claimed to be a scientist!   :D

I'm with grizno -- the marks on Mrs. Hawking's chalkboard are good enough for me -- it moves physically.

That's what my poor muddled brain had in mind when I saw the pendulum and read about the Focault's pendulum Madam P.  I find it very hard to get my head around it all.  We know for a fact that the Lostees were moving in time (the island wasn't flashing they were), but does the island also move in time or does it just move in space?  Or does it just move in time and because of this it changes location because of the earth's rotation?  ???  We need Dan or Ms Hawking with a blackboard and a pointer to explain it all properly!

How de we know the island wasn't flashing??
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: Zinzi on March 31, 2009, 11:28:13 AM
Well I though when someone asked if the island was moving through time Dan said "No we are", BUT I just checked and he actually said "OR we are"!  So now I'm even more confused!  ;D  Here's the transcript from Because You Left: -

FARADAY: The Island... [sighs] think of the Island like a record spinning on a turntable... only now, that record is skipping. Whatever Ben Linus did down at the Orchid station... I think... it may have... dislodged us.

MILES: Dislodged us from what?

FARADAY: Time.

JULIET: So that's why our camp is gone? Because the Island is moving through time?

FARADAY: Yeah, either the Island is, or we are.

SAWYER: What?

FARADAY: And it's just as likely that we're moving, your people and us. And everyone in your group--you're all accounted for, right?

SAWYER: [Sighs deeply] Not everyone. ...Locke.

Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: Novashannon on March 31, 2009, 11:32:33 AM
As long as we are going to be all scientific:  *ahem*If it does move through space (physically), then wouldn't it displace water wherever it ends up and cause some tidal waves?  (On the other hand, if I am going to believe an island moves and that people can go back in time, I might as well believe that no water is displaced). ???
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: Zinzi on March 31, 2009, 11:49:21 AM
 ;D Not to mention smoke monsters and reincarnation.  Hmmnn shall we give up being all scientific, it's just confusing me more I think?!  LOL  I did hear that although TPTB said that about science, they then justified it with that they meant pseudoscience.  I'm not sure even pseudoscience is going to explain it all!
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: BobBX542 on March 31, 2009, 12:10:32 PM
As long as we are going to be all scientific:  *ahem*If it does move through space (physically), then wouldn't it displace water wherever it ends up and cause some tidal waves?  (On the other hand, if I am going to believe an island moves and that people can go back in time, I might as well believe that no water is displaced). ???

Well depending on the speed it is moving, there would be a wake of some kind, and of course it might cause some waves, if it is moving fast enough to displace the water in that way. If it is moving very slowly, then no, it probably wouldn't cause any noticeable water displacement.
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: Novashannon on March 31, 2009, 12:12:02 PM
A freind of mine has maintained all along that everything is scientifically explanable.  She says this season has thrown her theories all of!  LOL.  I like all the time travle and have maintained all along that it is more than science.  
As long as we are going to be all scientific:  *ahem*If it does move through space (physically), then wouldn't it displace water wherever it ends up and cause some tidal waves?  (On the other hand, if I am going to believe an island moves and that people can go back in time, I might as well believe that no water is displaced). ???

Well depending on the speed it is moving, there would be a wake of some kind, and of course it might cause some waves, if it is moving fast enough to displace the water in that way. If it is moving very slowly, then no, it probably wouldn't cause any noticeable water displacement.

Doesn't even something moving slowly displace water?  Especially something that big.
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: joshzam on March 31, 2009, 01:48:22 PM
I like the idea of the disappear-puppet string yank-Earth rotation-reappear theory, but remember that the Earth not only rotates, but also revolves around the sun. So, if it were to disappear and then reappear at a different point in time but in the exact same place, it would most probably be floating along the Earth's orbit somewhere in space.

I say vile vortices
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vile_Vortices
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: BobBX542 on March 31, 2009, 04:30:40 PM
A freind of mine has maintained all along that everything is scientifically explanable.  She says this season has thrown her theories all of!  LOL.  I like all the time travle and have maintained all along that it is more than science.  
As long as we are going to be all scientific:  *ahem*If it does move through space (physically), then wouldn't it displace water wherever it ends up and cause some tidal waves?  (On the other hand, if I am going to believe an island moves and that people can go back in time, I might as well believe that no water is displaced). ???

Well depending on the speed it is moving, there would be a wake of some kind, and of course it might cause some waves, if it is moving fast enough to displace the water in that way. If it is moving very slowly, then no, it probably wouldn't cause any noticeable water displacement.

Doesn't even something moving slowly displace water?  Especially something that big.

Oh absolutely, I think I may have worded it wrong. sometimes I just type, and then think about what it is I said. I meant the "violence" of the water displacement depends on the speed. Like, fill a sink with water and put your fist in it. Really, really slowly move your hand from one side of the sink to the other, and you hardly disturb the water, BUT, move it from one side to the other as fast as you can, and water is going to splash everywhere. Does that make more sense?? I knew I should have put that in earlier, but I didn't.
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: Shmokin17 on March 31, 2009, 05:45:21 PM

In my brain, however, I was picturing the island's "moving deal" as if, let's say, the island was on a puppet-string, and some Big Giant Hand picked it up off the earth so that earth's time could move on without it, and then plunked it back down again.  In that scenario, it would not only be plate tectonics to consider, but just the plain old rotation of the earth.  As time passes, the earth rotates, and if the island is somehow "separated" from the earth, it might or might not plunk back down at the same physical place.

Or something like that.  Hey, I never claimed to be a scientist!   :D

I'm with grizno -- the marks on Mrs. Hawking's chalkboard are good enough for me -- it moves physically.

I think this is a fantastic theory, I really believe you may well have hit the nail on the head with this one.. it definitely gives me a way of picturing how the island could move through space (great analogy too).
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: Zinzi on March 31, 2009, 05:51:45 PM
joshzam has given your theory a fab name too Madam P!  Henceforth it should ALWAYS be referred to as the disappear-puppet string yank-Earth rotation-reappear theory   ;D
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: joshzam on March 31, 2009, 05:54:54 PM
That's why I get the big bucks :)
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: IdCenteredNurse on March 31, 2009, 05:56:40 PM
I hope we get a backstory about the Black Rock and how it came to rest there during this season.  I would also like to see the children that were grabbed from the plane crash and what has been going on with them.   Am I losing my mind or didn't I see skeletons in the Black Rock?
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: LOSTNightmaregk13 on March 31, 2009, 08:46:31 PM
I hope we get a backstory about the Black Rock and how it came to rest there during this season.  I would also like to see the children that were grabbed from the plane crash and what has been going on with them.   Am I losing my mind or didn't I see skeletons in the Black Rock?


i think i did too
yeah a backstory fom that would be great
and also
a backstory about the natives, the 4 toed anubis statue, temple and of course our dear smokie XD
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: BobBX542 on March 31, 2009, 10:50:26 PM
joshzam has given your theory a fab name too Madam P!  Henceforth it should ALWAYS be referred to as the disappear-puppet string yank-Earth rotation-reappear theory   ;D

DPSTYERR Theory for short...PLEASE!! LOL
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: Madam P on April 01, 2009, 02:04:32 PM
joshzam has given your theory a fab name too Madam P!  Henceforth it should ALWAYS be referred to as the disappear-puppet string yank-Earth rotation-reappear theory   ;D

DPSTYERR Theory for short...PLEASE!! LOL

I agree!  Love the name, but I could never remember that... and I even thought it up!   :D  The Dipster theory...   ;D  I like it! 
Title: Re: Still unexplained...
Post by: Madam P on April 01, 2009, 09:31:05 PM
Somebody figure out how to tag these posts so someday when they're proven correct we'll be able to point to them and say "Ah-HA!  Dipster!  We knew it all along!"   ;D

I don't know how to do that linky-posty-thingy...  :-\