Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x08 => Topic started by: Where is Vincent? on March 06, 2009, 02:58:50 PM

Title: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Where is Vincent? on March 06, 2009, 02:58:50 PM
Charles Widmore said in the previous episode that he was once the leader, until Ben exiled him.  Then in LaFleur, Sawyer references Locke's visit as being 20 years ago.  So are we to assume that in 1974, while Ben is still presumably a child, Charles Widmore is in charge of the natives?

Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Souldrinker on March 06, 2009, 03:16:31 PM
Maybe he just lied to Locke , who knows? :-\
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Shakey on March 06, 2009, 05:00:31 PM
He is pretty full of himself.  When he was 17, he made a comment on how he couldn't possibly have been followed back to the camp because nobody knows the island as well as he does.  I can see him saying that he was in charge to someone who wouldn't know any better in order for him to seem more credible.  He's trying to convince John that he's needed on the island.. saying he used to lead the Others would make him seem more authoritative and knowledgable... a guy who's in the know.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: jodeci on March 06, 2009, 06:12:38 PM
charles is trying to convince locke that the island does indeed belongs to him, not to ben.  ben has been telling locke that the island belongs to him, not charles. both charles and ben know that locke is needed for some reason to help their 'side' win.  so just like you can't trust what ben says to be the truth, i'm thinking you can't trust what charles says to be the truth either.
imo, jacob has always been 'in charge'.   but has charles even ever mentioned jacob?
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: jugdish on March 06, 2009, 11:22:02 PM
I believe Widmore is the leader of the others at this time.(1977)
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Gar O Mac on March 06, 2009, 11:29:29 PM
Charles Widmore said in the previous episode that he was once the leader, until Ben exiled him.  Then in LaFleur, Sawyer references Locke's visit as being 20 years ago.  So are we to assume that in 1974, while Ben is still presumably a child, Charles Widmore is in charge of the natives?



I think that we are indeed to assume that.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: MangoBingo on March 07, 2009, 12:00:15 PM
If Widmore wasn't fibbing to Locke and he was once in charge of the Others, I could easily imagine him also being in the pocket of the DHARMA Initiative for his own gain.

Maybe that's what's behind this "truce"? The 1950s Others seemed ready enough to kill any intruder upon the Island. Strange that the 1970s Others have formed a truce with the DHARMA invaders. Perhaps their leader at that time had his own agenda?
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: JBRam on March 08, 2009, 12:26:48 PM
I still don't think Widmore necessarily needs to be present in order to be the leader. Generals command their armies from outside the battlefield all the time. Maybe Widmore was the CEO of the DI or something, not necessarily the on-island leader.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: MangoBingo on March 09, 2009, 06:17:24 PM
The more I think about it all, the more I believe that the DHARMA Initiative and The Others are two factions of the same group. They might want the same things (whatever that may be) but are using differing methods to accomplish them.

Remember the DHARMA brainwash video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gar6JyV6800&fmt=18

If the video wasn't modified by the Others, it strongly infers that the D.I. were aware of Jacob.

Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Gar O Mac on March 09, 2009, 06:21:58 PM
The more I think about it all, the more I believe that the DHARMA Initiative and The Others are two factions of the same group. They might want the same things (whatever that may be) but are using differing methods to accomplish them.

Remember the DHARMA brainwash video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gar6JyV6800&fmt=18

If the video wasn't modified by the Others, it strongly infers that the D.I. were aware of Jacob.



Yeah, but the others could have made that video after wiping out the DI.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on March 09, 2009, 06:23:14 PM
The more I think about it all, the more I believe that the DHARMA Initiative and The Others are two factions of the same group. They might want the same things (whatever that may be) but are using differing methods to accomplish them.

Remember the DHARMA brainwash video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gar6JyV6800&fmt=18

If the video wasn't modified by the Others, it strongly infers that the D.I. were aware of Jacob.

I'm so glad you didn't say "confirmed" here! I've read so many postings lately where people say one thing or another is "confirmed" when it isn't, I just want to shake people. Or retreat to the Tea Party and munch on scones until I'm over it.

Anyway, I've been thinking along the same lines as you are. I push it a bit further, though, and consider that Widmore and Ben might even be on the same side.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Gar O Mac on March 09, 2009, 06:34:22 PM
I've been thinking that too! I'm not the only crazy one, you all saw it!
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on March 09, 2009, 06:36:17 PM
I've been thinking that too! I'm not the only crazy one, you all saw it!

2 posts left, NPG! Think you can do it??
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Gar O Mac on March 09, 2009, 06:38:54 PM
The time is indeed upon us!
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: MangoBingo on March 09, 2009, 07:25:41 PM
I've been thinking that too! I'm not the only crazy one, you all saw it!

It's the truce. It makes no sense.

Within hours of Locke & co being time-skipped into 1954, the Others set upon them with flaming arrows.

The DHARMA Initiative have made hatches; built an entire village; burrowed into the ground... To do this, a deal must have been brokered at some point - but by whom and what is each side getting out of the deal?

There must be one or more people with a foot in both camps.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Gar O Mac on March 09, 2009, 10:04:33 PM
I've been thinking that too! I'm not the only crazy one, you all saw it!

It's the truce. It makes no sense.

Within hours of Locke & co being time-skipped into 1954, the Others set upon them with flaming arrows.

The DHARMA Initiative have made hatches; built an entire village; burrowed into the ground... To do this, a deal must have been brokered at some point - but by whom and what is each side getting out of the deal?

There must be one or more people with a foot in both camps.

Spot on, Mango. There are other things too, but my mind seems to not want to work that hard today, so I can't remember them.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: MangoBingo on March 09, 2009, 10:42:03 PM
Spot on, Mango. There are other things too, but my mind seems to not want to work that hard today, so I can't remember them.

I'm so tired, that when I saw the title of this thread again, I started thinking of Scott Baio. lol

(http://i43.tinypic.com/o0vzq1.jpg)
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Gar O Mac on March 09, 2009, 10:45:42 PM
ROFLMAO! Nice!
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: MangoBingo on March 10, 2009, 08:30:35 AM
ROFLMAO! Nice!

I used to love that show. I wanted Charles to be in charge of me. lol
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Mommainternet on March 10, 2009, 09:05:30 AM
I still don't think Widmore necessarily needs to be present in order to be the leader. Generals command their armies from outside the battlefield all the time. Maybe Widmore was the CEO of the DI or something, not necessarily the on-island leader.

Do we know where Penny was born?  I've always thought she wasn't born on the island and this would make sense if Widmore was the leader but not the on-island leader or . . . at that time and during those years you could come and go more easily - and so he had a life off the island as well.

Also do we know what year, or around what year, she was born? 
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: MangoBingo on March 10, 2009, 09:09:18 PM
I've always thought she wasn't born on the island and this would make sense if Widmore was the leader but not the on-island leader or . . . at that time and during those years you could come and go more easily - and so he had a life off the island as well.

From 'Meet Kevin Johnson':
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Meet_Kevin_Johnson_transcript

TOM: Don't make it to the mainland too often--

[The door shuts behind Arturo.]

TOM: --so when I do, I like to indulge myself.

[Tom bites into a luscious grape.]

MICHAEL: So you people can just... come and go?

TOM: Some of us. You want a drink?

Title: What if Future Ben kicked Widmore out?
Post by: nomteticus on March 15, 2009, 12:01:20 AM
We all assume that Ben kicked Widmore out in the '90s, after the purge, but that would be almost impossible. How could Wid have time to build a financial empire in such a short time? And what about Penny? I don't think she was born on the island, she would have said something about it to Desmond. I also don't think she's adopted.

So Ben must have kicked Wid out before the purge? But how could he do that? He is just a kid in the 70s and just a workman in the 80s. but what if, and this is a big if, what if FUTURE Ben tricked young Widmore in 1977 into turning the wheel? We all assume Ben is in 2008 but maybe they're in 1977 too, but on a different part of the island, or maybe Ben manages to go back in time somehow.

I think this is the only reasonable explanation. 40 year old Ben takes advantage of the time travel to kick widmore out in 1974. Widmore has time to become a successful business man, and thinking that he'll never get back to the island, he has a kid (maybe with Mrs. Hawking, maybe not) - Penny. If we assume this, it means that Widmore has nothing to do with the original Dharma Initiative.

Does it make sense or not?
Title: Re: What if Future Ben kicked Widmore out?
Post by: Gar O Mac on March 15, 2009, 03:44:38 AM
We all assume that Ben kicked Widmore out in the '90s, after the purge, but that would be almost impossible. How could Wid have time to build a financial empire in such a short time? And what about Penny? I don't think she was born on the island, she would have said something about it to Desmond. I also don't think she's adopted.

So Ben must have kicked Wid out before the purge? But how could he do that? He is just a kid in the 70s and just a workman in the 80s. but what if, and this is a big if, what if FUTURE Ben tricked young Widmore in 1977 into turning the wheel? We all assume Ben is in 2008 but maybe they're in 1977 too, but on a different part of the island, or maybe Ben manages to go back in time somehow.

I think this is the only reasonable explanation. 40 year old Ben takes advantage of the time travel to kick widmore out in 1974. Widmore has time to become a successful business man, and thinking that he'll never get back to the island, he has a kid (maybe with Mrs. Hawking, maybe not) - Penny. If we assume this, it means that Widmore has nothing to do with the original Dharma Initiative.

Does it make sense or not?

Makes darn good since to me. And it's as logical as a whacked out theory about time travel can be!  ;D
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Harry Erickson on March 15, 2009, 04:47:04 AM
I am confused about widmore in 1974 charles wouldve been atleast 50 because 20 years earlier he was in at least his 30s, that means today hes at least 70 or 80.
I think hes managed to keep his age like richard alpert because in 2007 he looks at leat 40 or 50
Ben was born in at least the 60s, and arrived around the 70s becuse hes around 9 in his flashback, he killed the D.I in his 20s so around 1980 or 1990 making charles at least 40-60 years old.
Its odd, i think we need another ben flash or a widmore flash.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: opgelost on March 15, 2009, 06:42:33 AM
I think Widmore doesn't leave alone, but with a group of people,
like Penny, Charlotte and her mother, Mrs. Chang and her kid (Miles?) , Eloise Hawking
(and her son?), Horace's son, maybe Annie and more. All the mothers with
children leave, leaving no children on the island. Daniel (who knows about the incident, Widmore,
the purge etc.) talks them into leaving.
They leave with the dharmawheel releasing the energy from the Orchid and causing
the incident, that causes the inferilityproblems on the island.
The first kid to be born on the island after the incident will be Alex in 1988 and later Aaron in 2004.

When they leave they jump 10 years forward in time. That's why Charlotte was said to be born in 1979
and why Widmore doesn't look like 70.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: MangoBingo on March 15, 2009, 07:02:14 AM
http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=8493.0
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: nomteticus on March 15, 2009, 12:23:01 PM
I think Widmore doesn't leave alone, but with a group of people,
like Penny, Charlotte and her mother, Mrs. Chang and her kid (Miles?) , Eloise Hawking
(and her son?), Horace's son, maybe Annie and more. All the mothers with
children leave, leaving no children on the island. Daniel (who knows about the incident, Widmore,
the purge etc.) talks them into leaving.
They leave with the dharmawheel releasing the energy from the Orchid and causing
the incident, that causes the inferilityproblems on the island.
The first kid to be born on the island after the incident will be Alex in 1988 and later Aaron in 2004.

When they leave they jump 10 years forward in time. That's why Charlotte was said to be born in 1979
and why Widmore doesn't look like 70.


This is a very good theory and it definately explains Charlotte's age. But I think Ben (and not Daniel) had something to do with the bunch leaving. Good catch with Miles too. Maybe even Lapidus (since all the other freighties are apparently linked to the island. Maybe Ben told them to leave. But why would Widmore leave?
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: CastawayCayley on March 15, 2009, 12:49:10 PM
I am confused about widmore in 1974 charles wouldve been atleast 50 because 20 years earlier he was in at least his 30s, that means today hes at least 70 or 80.
I think hes managed to keep his age like richard alpert because in 2007 he looks at leat 40 or 50
Ben was born in at least the 60s, and arrived around the 70s becuse hes around 9 in his flashback, he killed the D.I in his 20s so around 1980 or 1990 making charles at least 40-60 years old.
Its odd, i think we need another ben flash or a widmore flash.


In 1954 (which is the time 20 years before that Sawyer references), Widmore is 17, not "at least in his 30's." He himself says to Locke, "I was 17 when you walked into my camp." 17.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Holland34 on March 17, 2009, 03:10:42 AM
I'm so tired, that when I saw the title of this thread again, I started thinking of Scott Baio. lol

(http://i43.tinypic.com/o0vzq1.jpg)

I was reading through this topic and I thought no one was going to bring that up.  You rock!

I'm so glad you didn't say "confirmed" here! I've read so many postings lately where people say one thing or another is "confirmed" when it isn't, I just want to shake people. Or retreat to the Tea Party and munch on scones until I'm over it.

Mmmm... tea and scones.  I love this thread!
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: grizn0 on March 17, 2009, 09:39:31 AM
I've been thinking that too! I'm not the only crazy one, you all saw it!

It's the truce. It makes no sense.

Within hours of Locke & co being time-skipped into 1954, the Others set upon them with flaming arrows.

The DHARMA Initiative have made hatches; built an entire village; burrowed into the ground... To do this, a deal must have been brokered at some point - but by whom and what is each side getting out of the deal?

There must be one or more people with a foot in both camps.

Spot on, Mango. There are other things too, but my mind seems to not want to work that hard today, so I can't remember them.

Are we saying it is confirmed that it was the others who shot the flaming arrows? I was under the impression we still didnt know exactly who that was.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: MangoBingo on March 17, 2009, 08:06:45 PM
Are we saying it is confirmed that it was the others who shot the flaming arrows? I was under the impression we still didnt know exactly who that was.

I think it was confirmed outside of the show, in an official Lost video podcast. It was the one which featured the props guy.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on March 17, 2009, 08:47:05 PM
Are we saying it is confirmed that it was the others who shot the flaming arrows? I was under the impression we still didnt know exactly who that was.

I think it was confirmed outside of the show, in an official Lost video podcast. It was the one which featured the props guy.

Also, in the Other's camp, several people have bows and arrows.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: Lost In NH on March 17, 2009, 09:45:22 PM
Are we saying it is confirmed that it was the others who shot the flaming arrows? I was under the impression we still didnt know exactly who that was.

I think it was confirmed outside of the show, in an official Lost video podcast. It was the one which featured the props guy.

Also, when Eloise and others trap the losties at the river they admit that they knew where to find them because Sawyer yelled out to meet at river.  Not to mention, that Eloise has a rifle but several others are holding bows and arrows at the losties.
Title: Re: When is Charles Widmore in charge?
Post by: grizn0 on March 18, 2009, 09:06:40 AM
Are we saying it is confirmed that it was the others who shot the flaming arrows? I was under the impression we still didnt know exactly who that was.

I think it was confirmed outside of the show, in an official Lost video podcast. It was the one which featured the props guy.

Also, when Eloise and others trap the losties at the river they admit that they knew where to find them because Sawyer yelled out to meet at river.  Not to mention, that Eloise has a rifle but several others are holding bows and arrows at the losties.

Right, makes sense... maybe I should lay off the pre-LOST jibbys? :P Nah, who am I kidding; that'll never happen.