Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x08 => Topic started by: Skix34 on March 05, 2009, 01:24:36 PM

Title: The "Incident"
Post by: Skix34 on March 05, 2009, 01:24:36 PM
When does the "incident" happen, maybe our 06 are brought back to the 70's for a reason.
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: BurkRoyer on March 05, 2009, 01:58:03 PM
Maybe the O6 will cause the incident...  Maybe Daniel causes it and that is why they create the Swan Station...
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: Jungle Otter on March 05, 2009, 01:59:23 PM
Maybe the O6 will cause the incident...

I agree. Getting the O6 to their "proper" time probably causes the incident as the Swan was constructed to keep the forces of the island in check - it's a good cover
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: opgelost on March 05, 2009, 02:00:33 PM
Maybe so that Jack can have a son and Kate doesn't have to die or leave.
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: blueeyed2200 on March 05, 2009, 02:09:45 PM
Hmmm . . . so just to clarify, has it officially been said that nothing that happens while the losties are in the past can change what has already happened??  In my opinion, if that info came from Ben or anyone else in his camp, I am willing to bet that could be another thing he may have been lying about.  This is what I think could happen . . . .  

Watching last night's episode, Alpert is clearly on the opposite side of the fence of Dharma people.  At this point in time, should Ben be old enough to orchestrate the purge??  If so, then I believe that the losties find out that Dharma weren't the bad ones after all, it was Ben's group and since Sawyer, Juliet, etc. have become a part of Dharma, the war will then become the losties and Dharma(Widmore) vs. Ben and his others.  They will then prevent the purge from happening to the Dharma people, take out Alpert and all of Ben's group thus changing the course of history and putting them back in their original time.  Now, where this leaves Locke, I don't know.  If he is supposed to take over as the leader of the island or whatever, Ben is trying hardcore to recruit him for their motivations and currently he believes that Ben, Alpert and his group are the ones that he trusts and needs to be working with, but I think later in the series that will also create a conflict and come to a head.  Does that make sense?  
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: JBRam on March 05, 2009, 02:14:09 PM
Hmmm . . . so just to clarify, has it officially been said that nothing that happens while the losties are in the past can change what has already happened??  In my opinion, if that info came from Ben or anyone else in his camp, I am willing to bet that could be another thing he may have been lying about.  This is what I think could happen . . . .  

Watching last night's episode, Alpert is clearly on the opposite side of the fence of Dharma people.  At this point in time, should Ben be old enough to orchestrate the purge??  If so, then I believe that the losties find out that Dharma weren't the bad ones after all, it was Ben's group and since Sawyer, Juliet, etc. have become a part of Dharma, the war will then become the losties and Dharma(Widmore) vs. Ben and his others.  They will then prevent the purge from happening to the Dharma people, take out Alpert and all of Ben's group thus changing the course of history and putting them back in their original time.  Now, where this leaves Locke, I don't know.  If he is supposed to take over as the leader of the island or whatever, Ben is trying hardcore to recruit him for their motivations and currently he believes that Ben, Alpert and his group are the ones that he trusts and needs to be working with, but I think later in the series that will also create a conflict and come to a head.  Does that make sense?  
Yes, it has been stated. They cannot change anything because then everything we've seen is a huge lie and no one will like the show.
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: blueeyed2200 on March 05, 2009, 02:19:25 PM
Hmmm . . . so just to clarify, has it officially been said that nothing that happens while the losties are in the past can change what has already happened??  In my opinion, if that info came from Ben or anyone else in his camp, I am willing to bet that could be another thing he may have been lying about.  This is what I think could happen . . . .  

Watching last night's episode, Alpert is clearly on the opposite side of the fence of Dharma people.  At this point in time, should Ben be old enough to orchestrate the purge??  If so, then I believe that the losties find out that Dharma weren't the bad ones after all, it was Ben's group and since Sawyer, Juliet, etc. have become a part of Dharma, the war will then become the losties and Dharma(Widmore) vs. Ben and his others.  They will then prevent the purge from happening to the Dharma people, take out Alpert and all of Ben's group thus changing the course of history and putting them back in their original time.  Now, where this leaves Locke, I don't know.  If he is supposed to take over as the leader of the island or whatever, Ben is trying hardcore to recruit him for their motivations and currently he believes that Ben, Alpert and his group are the ones that he trusts and needs to be working with, but I think later in the series that will also create a conflict and come to a head.  Does that make sense?  
Yes, it has been stated. They cannot change anything because then everything we've seen is a huge lie and no one will like the show.

But WHO stated it??  I cannot remember . . and saying that no one will like the show I think is a bit of a stretch, don't you think??  If it all ends logically and not as a "this was all a dream" sequence, I think it could be completely feasible.  I have been a fan since day 1 and I personally wouldn't be disappointed at that type of turn of events
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: on the island on March 05, 2009, 02:23:14 PM
Hmmm . . . so just to clarify, has it officially been said that nothing that happens while the losties are in the past can change what has already happened??  In my opinion, if that info came from Ben or anyone else in his camp, I am willing to bet that could be another thing he may have been lying about.  This is what I think could happen . . . .  

Watching last night's episode, Alpert is clearly on the opposite side of the fence of Dharma people.  At this point in time, should Ben be old enough to orchestrate the purge??  If so, then I believe that the losties find out that Dharma weren't the bad ones after all, it was Ben's group and since Sawyer, Juliet, etc. have become a part of Dharma, the war will then become the losties and Dharma(Widmore) vs. Ben and his others.  They will then prevent the purge from happening to the Dharma people, take out Alpert and all of Ben's group thus changing the course of history and putting them back in their original time.  Now, where this leaves Locke, I don't know.  If he is supposed to take over as the leader of the island or whatever, Ben is trying hardcore to recruit him for their motivations and currently he believes that Ben, Alpert and his group are the ones that he trusts and needs to be working with, but I think later in the series that will also create a conflict and come to a head.  Does that make sense?  
Yes, it has been stated. They cannot change anything because then everything we've seen is a huge lie and no one will like the show.

I thought last night that things changed.  They couldn't change the past while they were skipping but since they stopped, this is their new reality so whatever they do happens.  Didn't Daniel confirm that when they asked about stepping in to help the pregnant lady and they shot the 2 Others?
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: JBRam on March 05, 2009, 02:26:15 PM
Hmmm . . . so just to clarify, has it officially been said that nothing that happens while the losties are in the past can change what has already happened??  In my opinion, if that info came from Ben or anyone else in his camp, I am willing to bet that could be another thing he may have been lying about.  This is what I think could happen . . . .  

Watching last night's episode, Alpert is clearly on the opposite side of the fence of Dharma people.  At this point in time, should Ben be old enough to orchestrate the purge??  If so, then I believe that the losties find out that Dharma weren't the bad ones after all, it was Ben's group and since Sawyer, Juliet, etc. have become a part of Dharma, the war will then become the losties and Dharma(Widmore) vs. Ben and his others.  They will then prevent the purge from happening to the Dharma people, take out Alpert and all of Ben's group thus changing the course of history and putting them back in their original time.  Now, where this leaves Locke, I don't know.  If he is supposed to take over as the leader of the island or whatever, Ben is trying hardcore to recruit him for their motivations and currently he believes that Ben, Alpert and his group are the ones that he trusts and needs to be working with, but I think later in the series that will also create a conflict and come to a head.  Does that make sense?  
Yes, it has been stated. They cannot change anything because then everything we've seen is a huge lie and no one will like the show.

I thought last night that things changed.  They couldn't change the past while they were skipping but since they stopped, this is their new reality so whatever they do happens.  Didn't Daniel confirm that when they asked about stepping in to help the pregnant lady and they shot the 2 Others?
No, he was saying that they can't change anything by doing anything. Trying to avoid everything would be a pointless waste of time. Time has a way of course correcting according to Ms. Hawking and Daniel.
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: bfth on March 05, 2009, 02:28:26 PM
Ben is only a child (or should be) at this time.  The purge would happen later. 
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: Survivor815 on March 05, 2009, 02:44:44 PM
I wonder if we will ever find out what the "incident" was???  ???
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: gjohnson on March 07, 2009, 05:43:20 PM
I wonder if we will ever find out what the "incident" was???  ???
I'm sure we will. The question is when.
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: Novashannon on March 07, 2009, 05:46:48 PM
Daniel told them they could not change anything in the past.  The reasoning is that anything that happened before they were born has already happened, so whatever they do, they already had done in their time.  Whatever they do ni the past is already part of history.
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: lostandfree on March 07, 2009, 06:46:56 PM
So was the purge not "the incident"?  I guess I was thinking it was, and the purge was in 1992.  Do we know for sure that the incident is something else?
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: MangoBingo on March 07, 2009, 07:33:23 PM
Hmmm . . . so just to clarify, has it officially been said that nothing that happens while the losties are in the past can change what has already happened??  In my opinion, if that info came from Ben or anyone else in his camp, I am willing to bet that could be another thing he may have been lying about.
Yes, it has been stated. They cannot change anything because then everything we've seen is a huge lie and no one will like the show.

I thought last night that things changed.  They couldn't change the past while they were skipping but since they stopped, this is their new reality so whatever they do happens.  Didn't Daniel confirm that when they asked about stepping in to help the pregnant lady and they shot the 2 Others?

No, he was saying that they can't change anything by doing anything. Trying to avoid everything would be a pointless waste of time. Time has a way of course correcting according to Ms. Hawking and Daniel.

I've posted this elsewhere, but I really do think it needs reiterating...

"Whatever happened, happened", is basically a meaningless statement; it neither confirms nor denies that the past can be changed.

If you don't interact to make changes in the past (after travelling from the future), then whatever happened, happened.

If you do interact to make changes in the past (after travelling from the future), then whatever happened, happened.

Maybe the O6 will cause the incident...  Maybe Daniel causes it and that is why they create the Swan Station...

Maybe Sawyer's crew arriving in 1977 is the Incident.
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: PrincessLeia on March 07, 2009, 08:02:51 PM
Hmmm . . . so just to clarify, has it officially been said that nothing that happens while the losties are in the past can change what has already happened??  In my opinion, if that info came from Ben or anyone else in his camp, I am willing to bet that could be another thing he may have been lying about.  This is what I think could happen . . . .  

Watching last night's episode, Alpert is clearly on the opposite side of the fence of Dharma people.  At this point in time, should Ben be old enough to orchestrate the purge??  If so, then I believe that the losties find out that Dharma weren't the bad ones after all, it was Ben's group and since Sawyer, Juliet, etc. have become a part of Dharma, the war will then become the losties and Dharma(Widmore) vs. Ben and his others.  They will then prevent the purge from happening to the Dharma people, take out Alpert and all of Ben's group thus changing the course of history and putting them back in their original time.  Now, where this leaves Locke, I don't know.  If he is supposed to take over as the leader of the island or whatever, Ben is trying hardcore to recruit him for their motivations and currently he believes that Ben, Alpert and his group are the ones that he trusts and needs to be working with, but I think later in the series that will also create a conflict and come to a head.  Does that make sense?  
Yes, it has been stated. They cannot change anything because then everything we've seen is a huge lie and no one will like the show.

But WHO stated it??  I cannot remember . . and saying that no one will like the show I think is a bit of a stretch, don't you think??  If it all ends logically and not as a "this was all a dream" sequence, I think it could be completely feasible.  I have been a fan since day 1 and I personally wouldn't be disappointed at that type of turn of events

THANK YOU.  This is the question I'm stuck on right now too, otherwise the '08 ComiCon video makes no sense.  If Dan or Hawking or a show character said it, then it's part of the fluid plot!  It may not be a hard & fast rule that the writers & producers have locked themselves into. 





The Incident was what led to the Swan protocol, so we're left to assume that it was an electromagnetic anomaly/disaster of some sort.  According to the blast door, it happened before 1985.
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: Souldrinker on March 08, 2009, 11:19:06 AM
The video they taped in the ComicCon video (confusing ;D) already has been filmed in the past ... history repeats itself and what happened already happened...
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: JBRam on March 08, 2009, 12:30:51 PM

The Incident was what led to the Swan protocol, so we're left to assume that it was an electromagnetic anomaly/disaster of some sort.  According to the blast door, it happened before 1985.
Agreed. I don't think we are to assume it has anything to do with an arrival or the purge. It would be an electromagnetic anomaly.
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: opgelost on March 14, 2009, 07:45:03 AM
When the Dharma Initiative was building the Orchid, they found the cave with the dharmawheel.
According to Chang it was very, very dangerous to release the energy.
It melted the drills and killed a worker even if there were 20 meters of rocks between the worker
and the cave. I thought that the energy of the dharmawheel was what would cause the incident.

But Ben just walked into the cave in 2004 and Locke entered the well that communicated with the cave
in a time before the Orchid was build and they didn't melt and nothing came from the well.
They just walked to the wheel and pushed it.
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: TheBrightandTheDark on March 14, 2009, 12:24:57 PM
But Ben just walked into the cave in 2004 and Locke entered the well that communicated with the cave
in a time before the Orchid was build and they didn't melt and nothing came from the well.
They just walked to the wheel and pushed it.
Maybe the island was protecting itself from Dharma when they began to build the Orchid? I haven't been able to link the "unlimited energy" of the Orchid to the "electromagnetic energy" of the Swan, but if it is connected, it's possible that a FDW cave energy explosion is part of the Incident.

PL & JB are right (if I read everything correctly)... The Purge was when Ben & Others gassed the DI, and that was in 1992 (because in 2004 Horace said he'd been dead 12 years). The Incident led to Swan protocol, which I believe was an electromagnetic incident, but I thought that using the computer to communicate with other stations also led to it.

"Whatever happened, happened" is stated by Ms Hawking and Daniel at separate times. Ben never said it, as far as I can remember. I take it to mean "get involved or don't get involved, whatever choice you make is the choice you've always made at this time."
Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: SQUIRT199 on March 18, 2009, 11:40:09 AM
Daniel told them they could not change anything in the past.  The reasoning is that anything that happened before they were born has already happened, so whatever they do, they already had done in their time.  Whatever they do ni the past is already part of history.

I had a thought earlier in the year about this,  It seems to be a chicken vs the egg issue.
I have concluded that for instance the plane that Eko's brother Yemmi was in, did not crash until Ben moved the osland and it started shifting through time, but because it happened in 1980 or 90 whatever, it was there when boone/locke discovered it in 2004, but had Ben not moved the island in 2004 it would not have crashed at all.

I am also wondering if Daniel is right,  maybe he is not and the future can be altered, is he sure or just assuming,  do the rules that Ben/daniel allude to (as ben said they changed) meant he future can be changed?

Someone else said that if they can change it than what we have seen could not be, but it depends how the writers swing it.

maybe that was the way things played out but it doesnt mean it has to be.

Title: Re: The "Incident"
Post by: Harry Erickson on March 18, 2009, 11:56:39 AM
I think whatever daniel did in the D.I caused the accident and screwed up the island.
He probably dies, why we didnt see him in lafleur flas forwards