Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x03 => Topic started by: Staggerlee on January 28, 2009, 11:23:06 PM

Title: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Staggerlee on January 28, 2009, 11:23:06 PM


So, in 1954, did Locke's visit with the other survivors start the chain reaction that is Lost?

What happened when the flash came and these "prisoners" disappeared?

Did fate collect them on a plane and deliver them?
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: vickilynn on January 28, 2009, 11:24:17 PM


So, in 1954, did Locke's visit with the other survivors start the chain reaction that is Lost?

What happened when the flash came and these "prisoners" disappeared?

Did fate collect them on a plane and deliver them?
I can't even decide on "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"
I can't even start to contemplate that one!
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: hyperform on January 28, 2009, 11:24:48 PM
I don't understand your question
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Asmodean on January 28, 2009, 11:27:25 PM
I REALLY want to know who Abbadon works for now. 
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Staggerlee on January 28, 2009, 11:31:53 PM
I don't understand your question



Neither do I, that's why I asked it?


Really though, be it linear or cyclical time, Locke visited, told Alpert you told me I am the leader...he had no idea of this previously, he now has some weird guy saying this to him, whom then disappears with a bunch of other people, one of which told them how to take care of a problem they had (Jughead). This guy gave him a compass, a birthdate, mentioned Jacob then *blink* he's gone....

So Alpert, knowing all this goes off to find him as a child, how they choose their leader, but Locke the kid screws up, Alpert gets frustrated, thinks maybe he (Locke) was wrong or not ready, they run into Ben later on, he seems right....
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: jugdish on January 28, 2009, 11:34:03 PM
I am sure that is why he went to see Locke at the hospital and that they kept an eye on Locke.

Seems to started Lockes journey, not sure about eveyone elses.
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Lottery Ticket on January 28, 2009, 11:47:27 PM
Other than Locke telling them his their leader, there is no reason to believe that he is. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.  If Locke did not choose correctly to be the Others leader, then what object did Ben choose that propelled him into this position.  That's a scene I'd like to see.  I don't think Locke is the leader. I think another O6, aaron, walt, or Ji Yeon will get a chance at some grouping of objects.  So, what objects are laying around the island would connect, say Hurley?  What did Jack have in his possession that he might recognize if he was given the test as a little boy? Kate? A plane, maybe?
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Staggerlee on January 29, 2009, 12:01:10 AM


Would Alpert have gone to look for Locke had Locke not "flashed" in and told him to?
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: hyperform on January 29, 2009, 12:02:00 AM


Would Alpert have gone to look for Locke had Locke not "flashed" in and told him to?

Austin Powers eyes just crossed.
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: AstroJones on January 29, 2009, 01:38:17 AM


Would Alpert have gone to look for Locke had Locke not "flashed" in and told him to?

I say no.  There was never a time when Richard went to see Locke without the knowledge of an "old Locke" visiting him and telling him to do so.  Otherwise, what we saw tonight would have changed the future, and that's just not possible.  ;)
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: unitus on January 29, 2009, 01:55:22 AM


So, in 1954, did Locke's visit with the other survivors start the chain reaction that is Lost?


I think so. I think this episode is MONSTER important for that reason. That run-in with those others kick started EVERYTHING. It gave Ellie a peek at real time-travel, and probably started her down that path. Locke created "Leader Locke" in Richard's mind, and I'm sure this chance meeting will have some sort of ramification with Widmore (since he was there and all).

I also think that by Daniel telling the Others to bury "Jughead" he created the underground problem that the Swan station had to vent every 108 minutes. I'm sure there was more before (the Black Rock, the four toed statue, smokie) but I think this was the genesis of much that we know of LOST today.
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Walkabout V.2 on January 29, 2009, 10:29:34 AM
I REALLY want to know who Abbadon works for now. 
The FBI and he is in command of a unit consisting of a criminal/con man, a scientist who is scratches the borderline of insanity and a fiery blonde workaholic. Oh, my mistake different show altogether.
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Writers_Strike on January 29, 2009, 11:29:51 AM
So, in 1954, did Locke's visit with the other survivors start the chain reaction that is Lost?

Just like in the movie "Minority Report" Tom Cruise's character would have no reason to find that man and kill him until he saw the "Pre-Cog" vision. The vision of him killing that man is what started the chain of events that lead him to kill that man. It is a paradox, it only happened because he saw it happen first.

These are the types of questions/paradoxes that come up with time travel, I think thats why the writers wanted to stay away from it.
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Staggerlee on January 29, 2009, 12:36:57 PM


Interesting in that they want to avoid those annoying "Heroes" paradoxes, what will they do to untangle this? The answer is there...need to keep peeling away the layers (or just keep watching....)
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: BobBX542 on January 29, 2009, 01:52:31 PM


So, in 1954, did Locke's visit with the other survivors start the chain reaction that is Lost?

What happened when the flash came and these "prisoners" disappeared?

Did fate collect them on a plane and deliver them?

I highly highly doubt it, because if this were the case, then they might as well have had the words "THE END" scroll across the screen the same way the title does. Plus, that would have left out so many answers. I mean hell, we still don't actually know the whole story behind Jacob.
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Staggerlee on January 29, 2009, 02:00:04 PM
That's the conundrum...

I do not think it would be an ending though...just a chapter closing somewhat...though that did not happen last night...it is an intriuging line to follow though because of the idea of the possible paradox involved and what not...

There's still some rich history to delve into, then they can go off into the parking lot, set up the pool, rev up the cycle and head for the ramp....



*thumbs up* AAYYYYYYYYYYYY
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Jungle Otter on January 29, 2009, 02:21:11 PM
In addition to the above, we have a sense that "Jacob" existed on the island at least as far back as 1954 and was giving orders then....which could be why Alpert is interested in Locke due to his connection with Jacob.....
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 29, 2009, 02:46:23 PM


Would Alpert have gone to look for Locke had Locke not "flashed" in and told him to?

I believe no he would not have,

And pure speculation I think that Due to something Widmore is told on the island by one of the time jumpers is how he becomes a rich man off the island,  I would not suspect that someone who came from money would be in the british army, usually soldiers are lower class citizens or from poorer families, not to generalize but I believe that is the case.

Anyway I think he gets his money due to somthing that is said top him in the past,



Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 29, 2009, 04:01:48 PM


Would Alpert have gone to look for Locke had Locke not "flashed" in and told him to?

this is what i am stuck on. When did it start and when does it end?
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 29, 2009, 04:03:30 PM
I REALLY want to know who Abbadon works for now. 
The FBI and he is in command of a unit consisting of a criminal/con man, a scientist who is scratches the borderline of insanity and a fiery blonde workaholic. Oh, my mistake different show altogether.

lol that's cute. ((Fringe)) Which I'm liking ...
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: BobBX542 on January 29, 2009, 04:07:43 PM
I REALLY want to know who Abbadon works for now. 
The FBI and he is in command of a unit consisting of a criminal/con man, a scientist who is scratches the borderline of insanity and a fiery blonde workaholic. Oh, my mistake different show altogether.

lol that's cute. ((Fringe)) Which I'm liking ...

Fringe is okay. I make no effort to watch it when it is on TV, but it's great on my lunch breaks at work on wednesday. Except for this past one where the people's brains melt out of their noses and mouths. Very unpleasant.
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Staggerlee on January 29, 2009, 04:14:53 PM
... where the people's brains melt out of their noses and mouths. Very unpleasant.

Nothing a lil' Sudafed wouldn't have helped...

this is what i am stuck on. When did it start and when does it end?

True True, me too, as that is the definition of Paradox right? Which they were/are trying to avoid...
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: BobBX542 on January 29, 2009, 04:21:29 PM
this is what i am stuck on. When did it start and when does it end?

True True, me too, as that is the definition of Paradox right? Which they were/are trying to avoid...

I'm saying to everyone I know to give it time, it's only the second week of the new season. My friend last night was all pissed off that they weren't answering questions, and I had to tell her to calm down about it. Now, if they get to the middle of the season and they are still doing this with out explaining certain nuances of the time travel, then I'm right there with you Stagger, just like Guiness and open faced Peanut butter and Jelly sandwiches. My god that sounds terrible. But I like garlic pickles on my tacos, so to each his own I guess.
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: hyperform on January 29, 2009, 04:25:56 PM
I think the guiness and pb and j sounds awesome

I am affectionately referring to it as an irish pop tart
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: BobBX542 on January 29, 2009, 04:26:24 PM
I think the guiness and pb and j sounds awesome

I am affectionately referring to it as an irish pop tart

HA!! That sounds deliciously racist. LOL
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: hyperform on January 29, 2009, 04:28:50 PM
I think I just invented a drink too, like a Guiness with a shot of Midori maybe dropped in Boilermaker style.
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Staggerlee on January 29, 2009, 04:31:46 PM
I think the guiness and pb and j sounds awesome

I am affectionately referring to it as an irish pop tart


Henceforth it is to be know as such!!!! You Rule!!



I'm saying to everyone I know to give it time, it's only the second week of the new season. My friend last night was all pissed off that they weren't answering questions, and I had to tell her to calm down about it. Now, if they get to the middle of the season and they are still doing this with out explaining certain nuances of the time travel, then I'm right there with you Stagger, just like Guiness and open faced Peanut butter and Jelly sandwiches. My god that sounds terrible. But I like garlic pickles on my tacos, so to each his own I guess.


I agree it is very early on, the main reason I have said it (a few times) is to figure out if it is defined thus...Most of the folk 'round here have much better eyes than I during the epi's...am I missing something that explained it? That's my paradox, hehehe (amongst many other issues, some able to be controlled with medication....)

With the wealth of info last night, though I have to say I am sated for a bit...
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: MangoBingo on January 29, 2009, 08:12:04 PM
Really though, be it linear or cyclical time, Locke visited, told Alpert you told me I am the leader...he had no idea of this previously, he now has some weird guy saying this to him, whom then disappears with a bunch of other people, one of which told them how to take care of a problem they had (Jughead). This guy gave him a compass, a birthdate, mentioned Jacob then *blink* he's gone....

So Alpert, knowing all this goes off to find him as a child, how they choose their leader, but Locke the kid screws up, Alpert gets frustrated, thinks maybe he (Locke) was wrong or not ready, they run into Ben later on, he seems right....

I know what you mean about it being a chicken & the egg paradox.

However... Matthew Abaddon pushed Locke towards the Island. He seems to be outside of this loop; for now.
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: xrayeck on January 29, 2009, 08:58:14 PM
I'm saying to everyone I know to give it time, it's only the second week of the new season. My friend last night was all pissed off that they weren't answering questions, and I had to tell her to calm down about it.
Maybe your friend should watch "Jughead" again as it actually provided a huge clue to answering MOST of our questions. That clue is the apparent paradox that's the subject of this thread.
How did Richard manage to attend Locke's birth? Because Future Locke told him about it.
How did Hurley get The Numbers? From Leonard. How did Leonard get them? He and Sam Toomey heard them on the shortwave. How did the broadcaster get them? Someone from the future gave them to him.
It becomes less of a paradox, though, if you can try to shake your inclination to think of time as a vertical line with a point on that line being "the present."
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Staggerlee on January 29, 2009, 09:08:47 PM
so how many of these weird little kinks are there with the numbers the compass/birth thing...

I do not like the word paradox, kink in the line fits better....
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 29, 2009, 10:27:03 PM
I REALLY want to know who Abbadon works for now. 
The FBI and he is in command of a unit consisting of a criminal/con man, a scientist who is scratches the borderline of insanity and a fiery blonde workaholic. Oh, my mistake different show altogether.

lol that's cute. ((Fringe)) Which I'm liking ...

Fringe is okay. I make no effort to watch it when it is on TV, but it's great on my lunch breaks at work on wednesday. Except for this past one where the people's brains melt out of their noses and mouths. Very unpleasant.

especially at lunch time. lol  I picture that brain melt thing happening while im trying to figure out the paradox (as stagger put it) and I feel like I can relate.  :D
Title: Re: the 1954 happening?
Post by: BobBX542 on January 30, 2009, 01:01:05 PM
I'm saying to everyone I know to give it time, it's only the second week of the new season. My friend last night was all pissed off that they weren't answering questions, and I had to tell her to calm down about it.
Maybe your friend should watch "Jughead" again as it actually provided a huge clue to answering MOST of our questions. That clue is the apparent paradox that's the subject of this thread.
How did Richard manage to attend Locke's birth? Because Future Locke told him about it.
How did Hurley get The Numbers? From Leonard. How did Leonard get them? He and Sam Toomey heard them on the shortwave. How did the broadcaster get them? Someone from the future gave them to him.
It becomes less of a paradox, though, if you can try to shake your inclination to think of time as a vertical line with a point on that line being "the present."

Exactly, not so sure about the numbers part though. Seems to me that someone wouldn't feel the need to put them on a broadcast loop just because someone told them about them. I mean, unless of course there was some sort of elaborate explanation.

I REALLY want to know who Abbadon works for now. 
The FBI and he is in command of a unit consisting of a criminal/con man, a scientist who is scratches the borderline of insanity and a fiery blonde workaholic. Oh, my mistake different show altogether.

lol that's cute. ((Fringe)) Which I'm liking ...

Fringe is okay. I make no effort to watch it when it is on TV, but it's great on my lunch breaks at work on wednesday. Except for this past one where the people's brains melt out of their noses and mouths. Very unpleasant.

especially at lunch time. lol  I picture that brain melt thing happening while im trying to figure out the paradox (as stagger put it) and I feel like I can relate.  :D

Had I known about the brain melting, I wouldn't have watched it and eaten my lunch at the same time. It takes alot to get me to react like that, and that was alot to me. LOL Worse that watching surgery and eating, and the surgery was real.