Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x03 => Topic started by: vickilynn on January 28, 2009, 10:53:06 PM

Title: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: vickilynn on January 28, 2009, 10:53:06 PM
Aha!
Another small piece of the puzzle. Where does it fit in?
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: lostfromthestart on January 28, 2009, 10:54:11 PM
Soldier Boy!!!
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Writers_Strike on January 28, 2009, 10:56:34 PM
A very disgruntled and non-obedient other. He is the islands Lucifer.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Staggerlee on January 28, 2009, 10:57:36 PM
That moment made this the best epi in awhile!!!
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: matahari on January 28, 2009, 11:07:57 PM
Widmore told Ben that the island was his, and Ben stole it from him. I kinda thought something was up when the "Jones" troop attacked Juliet and Sawyer and said "What are you doing on our Island?"
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Jungle Otter on January 28, 2009, 11:10:10 PM
Interesting development - Widmore on the island 1954...he left (?) and is now looking for it....

Ben comes to the island 1970s, takes over, leaves in 2005....and now he's looking for it...

The race is on...
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Asmodean on January 28, 2009, 11:12:17 PM
I thought he was going to be an Other or Hostile, but I figured him to be the boss.  That was a big WOW regardless!
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Folly529 on January 28, 2009, 11:13:32 PM
It also let us see that he was a SOB from the beginning - ruthless (almost vicious) & prone to action over deliberation.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Staggerlee on January 28, 2009, 11:14:39 PM
This is interesting, as TPTB have said Richard has no interest in running the isle, and he just told Locke that "We have a very specific way of choosing a leader..."

Just whom is in charge right now? er, then, 1954...Alpert seems to be in charge, but his posture seemed to be more that of a Lieutenant than a General...


Jacob?

I do not think so, but that is a possibility....
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: gjohnson on January 28, 2009, 11:16:52 PM
Could Charles Widmore's introduction to the island have been as a soldier sent to control it, escaping assault by the Hostiles vowing to return and exploit its powers?
Oh yeah baby! Okay, so he wasn't a soldier, he was an Other!
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: hyperform on January 28, 2009, 11:17:19 PM
I thought he was going to be an Other or Hostile, but I figured him to be the boss.  That was a big WOW regardless!

Ben wasn't the boss right away either.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: lostfromthestart on January 28, 2009, 11:27:24 PM
Oh Jacob's in charge!  Did you see Richard flinch when Locke said Jacob sent me?  Locke was pushing the right button.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: jugdish on January 28, 2009, 11:28:01 PM
I have to give a shout out to those who predicted that he was Charles Widmore last week. I was not buying that idea, but I was wrong.

Maybe Widmore becomes the leader and Ben kicks him out when the do the purge, he might of sent him away when he became the new leader.

That or Widmore moved the island once and was sent to Tunisia.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: hyperform on January 28, 2009, 11:30:41 PM
maybe, Charles was in line to be the new leader, and Ben somehow tricked him (and this is assuming that Ben found out about the wheel without Charles knowing) into spinning the wheel to "save the island", thus allowing Ben to ascend.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: wcaclimbing on January 28, 2009, 11:33:17 PM
"if it didn't happen, it can't happen"

it explains why Locke and Sawyer never shot him when he ran. He'd be dead.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on January 28, 2009, 11:36:29 PM
I think that Widmore gets frustrated with Richard going to find young John.  He then tries to become the one in charge and that is why Richard talks young Ben to take over Widmores spot.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: hyperform on January 28, 2009, 11:41:42 PM
Ben did say that he didn't order the purge, their leader did. Does that mean Richard, Jacob, or Widmore?
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Staggerlee on January 28, 2009, 11:44:51 PM
I think that Widmore gets frustrated with Richard going to find young John.  He then tries to become the one in charge and that is why Richard talks young Ben to take over Widmores spot.


This I like.....

Guiness and PBJ openfaced is coming your way, courtesy the Hanso Catering Service...
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: matahari on January 28, 2009, 11:49:18 PM
"if it didn't happen, it can't happen"

it explains why Locke and Sawyer never shot him when he ran. He'd be dead.

AHA!
 "He's one of my people"
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Austruck on January 28, 2009, 11:57:50 PM
Any theory about who became leader and how and why has to include Widmore leaving the island at some point ... with enough time to get to civilization, get married, and have Penny (who, I assume, was not born on the island).

The actress playing Penny was born in '74, so let's assume that's about right for Penny too. So, Widmore has to be gone from the island presumably around the early '70s.... right around the time Ben comes into power and purges the Others?? (Do we have a year on that?)

Hard to believe the two events aren't connected somehow.

ALSO ... It's TOUGH to get off the island and you can't do it on your own. Someone in charge has to orchestrate it. OR he turned the wheel and got whisked off on his own. It's highly likely that, while Candle and his crew were discovering all the secrets of the Orchid, Widmore somehow was involved in a wheel-turning that sent him off the island for good.

And ever since then he's been miffed....
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Bostonlost on January 29, 2009, 12:40:57 AM
So is this a fight between Richard and Widmore?

His Uni said Jones did the hostiles/others take the clothes?
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: matahari on January 29, 2009, 12:51:50 AM
So is this a fight between Richard and Widmore?

His Uni said Jones did the hostiles/others take the clothes?


maybe they took the U.S. military clothes.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: AstroJones on January 29, 2009, 01:20:37 AM
yeah, we know how they LOVE disguises.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Bostonlost on January 29, 2009, 01:30:41 AM
So did Widmore know that Desmond was on the Island?

If he sent the frieghter...and Naomi was on the chopper and had a picture of Penny and Des....

Add in the fact the Hawkins tells Des that his job in life just might be to be on and Island pushing buttons

It's confusing (understatement)
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: AstroJones on January 29, 2009, 01:33:00 AM
At this point, I think Charles absolutely had to know Desmond would end up on the island.  Perhaps more things will happen, when/if Desmond returns to the island with the others, that will make Widmore have more awareness of it all.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: matahari on January 29, 2009, 01:35:02 AM
I think Widmore knew Des was on the Island. He knew about the Island, he had been to the Island, Des takes libby's boat (who had been on the Island), and des was on Widmore's solo race. Widmore was trying to maroon Des to keep him from Penny. he tried to pay him off, but it didn't work.

I'm sure Widmore knows how they all got off the Island too.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: AstroJones on January 29, 2009, 01:47:02 AM
Actually, and I just thought of this so it might not actually make sense, perhaps young Widmore learns about how Desmond is "special" and the rules don't apply to him.  So future Charles does everything he can to keep Penny away from Desmond because he's worried Desmond will change something that could negatively affect his daughter.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Bostonlost on January 29, 2009, 02:07:42 AM
Actually, and I just thought of this so it might not actually make sense, perhaps young Widmore learns about how Desmond is "special" and the rules don't apply to him.  So future Charles does everything he can to keep Penny away from Desmond because he's worried Desmond will change something that could negatively affect his daughter.

Or things are predestined and other worldly


Desmond has a very Greek mythology air about him ....

If you look at his life he is Odysseus lost at sea never finding his way home...Even fighting with a cyclopes


I mean using the myth of a Island in the world and on this Island there are men who keep time constant
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Maxor127 on January 29, 2009, 03:09:57 AM
I'm still not sold on everyone thinking that somehow this time traveling stuff is changing the future.  Because how did Locke end up on the island if he had to go back in time to tell Richard to look for him just to fail the test and still set him on a path to go to the island.  It's chicken on the egg stuff and I don't think it fits the time travel rules laid out.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on January 29, 2009, 03:33:37 AM
I'm still not sold on everyone thinking that somehow this time traveling stuff is changing the future.  Because how did Locke end up on the island if he had to go back in time to tell Richard to look for him just to fail the test and still set him on a path to go to the island.  It's chicken on the egg stuff and I don't think it fits the time travel rules laid out.

Yes its hard to understand but remember how Daniel said if it did not happen it cannot happen.  Well with Locke it did happen therefore it can happen.

You cant think of time as linear.  Time occurs because of the expansion of the universe.  In reality the only way to go back in time is if you can shrink the universe but the thing is you would go back in time to a place where you were younger not really your body going back in time.  Then when you are an adult you will invent away to go back in time again so it would be stuck in this big loop.  And for some reason I think that is what is happening in the world on Lost.  I say that the world itself is stuck in this big loop,  but the island or people like Richard for some reason are invulnerable to this time loop.  So the island keeps going through time like it should and Richard just keeps getting older and stays alive.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: uofapiglet on January 29, 2009, 05:08:14 AM
Wasn't this a great WTF moment? I love when Lost comes out with some crazy idea like Widmore being an Other. It almost seems inconceivable to think that Widmore had a past among the Others on the island, and now he's trying his hardest just to find it again. Which leaves us wondering: 1) How did Widmore end up on the island and what was his role there?, 2) What happened to cause him to leave and why is he trying to go back?, 3) Is he aware of the shennanigans that occured on the island to date, including Desmond's brief stint?, and 4) What was with the Oceanic cover up and the botched Freighter mission? All I can remember is Ben saying to Locke that somehow Widmore "changed the rules". Widmore's obviously got a history with Ben and the island, guess we just have to wait to find out.

The thing that gets me is that Charles Widmore killed one of his people. Locke refused to shoot him on the basis that he was "one of my (locke's) people" and yet Widmore was so quick to kill his fellow Other when he was about to give away the location of their camp. Not very Other-like if you tell me. So how does/did Widmore factor in as an Other, let alone become one?

Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: lolocke on January 29, 2009, 05:17:21 AM
Desmond has a very Greek mythology air about him ....

just an observation not tied to anything, but they had him sporting a very 1980's Dr. Who look in this episode...
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Blitz Wing on January 29, 2009, 05:52:12 AM
Maybe Whitmore gets kicked off the Island for killing one of his own....doesn't he get "Marked" for that like Juliette did?
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 29, 2009, 10:25:58 AM
Wasn't this a great WTF moment? I love when Lost comes out with some crazy idea like Widmore being an Other. It almost seems inconceivable to think that Widmore had a past among the Others on the island, and now he's trying his hardest just to find it again. Which leaves us wondering: 1) How did Widmore end up on the island and what was his role there?, 2) What happened to cause him to leave and why is he trying to go back?, 3) Is he aware of the shennanigans that occured on the island to date, including Desmond's brief stint?, and 4) What was with the Oceanic cover up and the botched Freighter mission? All I can remember is Ben saying to Locke that somehow Widmore "changed the rules". Widmore's obviously got a history with Ben and the island, guess we just have to wait to find out.

The thing that gets me is that Charles Widmore killed one of his people. Locke refused to shoot him on the basis that he was "one of my (locke's) people" and yet Widmore was so quick to kill his fellow Other when he was about to give away the location of their camp. Not very Other-like if you tell me. So how does/did Widmore factor in as an Other, let alone become one?



What do you mean not other like to Kill?

Mikail smoked bea klugh at her request because she did not want to be tortured to give up info,  Widmore knew the little nancy boy he was with was about to give out pertinent info so he did what the other have to do in that case.

nevermind the fact that they eventually tracked him down and fond the camp asfter all.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: JMart on January 29, 2009, 10:28:53 AM
This is interesting, as TPTB have said Richard has no interest in running the isle, and he just told Locke that "We have a very specific way of choosing a leader..."

Just whom is in charge right now? er, then, 1954...Alpert seems to be in charge, but his posture seemed to be more that of a Lieutenant than a General...


Jacob?

I do not think so, but that is a possibility....

im thinking there is someone between richard and jacob even then because richard made the comment about chain of command
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: zeekloveslost on January 29, 2009, 10:38:28 AM
This is interesting, as TPTB have said Richard has no interest in running the isle, and he just told Locke that "We have a very specific way of choosing a leader..."

Just whom is in charge right now? er, then, 1954...Alpert seems to be in charge, but his posture seemed to be more that of a Lieutenant than a General...


Jacob?

I do not think so, but that is a possibility....

I don't think Richard appears to be in power - to me it appears he has the same role that he had while Ben was in power. Perhaps we have not yet met the person who is in power during this time.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: JMart on January 29, 2009, 10:55:50 AM
the person in command at this time is going to be hanso :D
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Asmodean on January 29, 2009, 11:56:04 AM
Widmore getting booted off for bad behavior is a good theory. 

We know Richard leaves once to visit baby John and then again to presumably set up Mittelos Labs.  In his absence Widmore could have seized control of the gang.  You could tell there was already tension between him and Richard over John plus the fact that he has no problem at all killing his 'other' partner.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: sbigras on January 29, 2009, 02:58:18 PM
Charles Widmore was an other... that was the best OMG moment of the episode.

It seems likely that Widmore is selected as leader of takes over leadership of the others sometime after 1954.

It also seems that the islands capacity to move through time and space is a defence mechanism allowing it to remain unknown to the rest of the world or to escape unwanted guests... the only catch is it requires someone to sacrifice themselves.  They then find themselves trapped in regular time and space unable to return to the island.

I postulate that Jacob selects Ben to become the new leader of the others after the Dharma purge and forces Widmore to move the island to prevent the off island Dharma Initiative from sending people to investigate or begin the initiative again.  This scenario repeats itself again with Jacob selecting Locke to become the new leader at the expense of Ben to save the island from being discovered by Widmore.

I also think that Widmore is more than a little aware of the plan to get the Oceanic 6 back to the island.  He provides Daniel's mother's adress to Desmond in the hope that they will succesfully locate the island, even temporarily, so that the Oceanic 6 are allowed to return.  He knows her from the island in 1954 and has been supporting her and her son's research in the event that the islands position can be calculated.  This would represent another opportunity for Widmore to return to the island.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 29, 2009, 04:17:59 PM
Charles Widmore was an other... that was the best OMG moment of the episode.

It seems likely that Widmore is selected as leader of takes over leadership of the others sometime after 1954.

It also seems that the islands capacity to move through time and space is a defence mechanism allowing it to remain unknown to the rest of the world or to escape unwanted guests... the only catch is it requires someone to sacrifice themselves.  They then find themselves trapped in regular time and space unable to return to the island.

I postulate that Jacob selects Ben to become the new leader of the others after the Dharma purge and forces Widmore to move the island to prevent the off island Dharma Initiative from sending people to investigate or begin the initiative again.  This scenario repeats itself again with Jacob selecting Locke to become the new leader at the expense of Ben to save the island from being discovered by Widmore.

I also think that Widmore is more than a little aware of the plan to get the Oceanic 6 back to the island.  He provides Daniel's mother's adress to Desmond in the hope that they will succesfully locate the island, even temporarily, so that the Oceanic 6 are allowed to return.  He knows her from the island in 1954 and has been supporting her and her son's research in the event that the islands position can be calculated.  This would represent another opportunity for Widmore to return to the island.



and maybe find his daughter as a bonus! excellent! I like this post alot!

& welcome!!!!! ;D
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Staggerlee on January 29, 2009, 04:23:12 PM
Very interesting...was Widdy around during the Purge?  Was he seen during that epi?
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: userh6478 on January 29, 2009, 06:42:40 PM
OMG..WHAT IF DESMOND IS WHITEMORES SON...THATS WHY HE DIDN'T WANT HIM TO BE WITH PENNY BECAUSE THE ARE SIBLINGS.LOL..DO WE EVEN KNOW WHO DESMOND'S PARENTS ARE????????
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: msdoran on January 29, 2009, 07:01:59 PM
This is interesting, as TPTB have said Richard has no interest in running the isle, and he just told Locke that "We have a very specific way of choosing a leader..."

Just whom is in charge right now? er, then, 1954...Alpert seems to be in charge, but his posture seemed to be more that of a Lieutenant than a General...


Jacob?

I do not think so, but that is a possibility....

I don't think Richard appears to be in power - to me it appears he has the same role that he had while Ben was in power. Perhaps we have not yet met the person who is in power during this time.

I agree. Richard seems to have consigliere written all over him.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: MangoBingo on January 29, 2009, 07:49:46 PM
OMG..WHAT IF DESMOND IS WHITEMORES SON...THATS WHY HE DIDN'T WANT HIM TO BE WITH PENNY BECAUSE THE ARE SIBLINGS.LOL..DO WE EVEN KNOW WHO DESMOND'S PARENTS ARE????????

OMG!!!

I think you may be right. Faraday and Desmond could be brothers or half-brothers.

Maybe Faraday is "evil" and Desmond is "good". And by "good" and "evil", I mean that Faraday is always doomed to do the wrong thing (at others' expense) and Desmond is always doomed to do the right thing (at his own expense).

It'd explain why Ms. Hawking told Desmond not to marry Penny - she's family!!!

I'm thinking that Desmond is the son of Ms. Hawking and ...dunno. And Faraday is the son of Ms. Hawking and Charles. Penny could be the daughter of Charles and yet another female.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: MangoBingo on January 29, 2009, 07:53:57 PM
Faraday and Desmond share other similarities too...

http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php?topic=7881.msg395265#msg395265
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: jace427 on January 29, 2009, 08:09:45 PM
Staggerlee's got it.  If Widmore has been looking for the island for around 20 years, that means he probably was around for the purge, but just wasn't shown to have been there, yet, obviously due to the fact that they didn't want to reveal this part of Charles' history until now.  As for the military clothing, I believe it means nothing more than the Other's appropriated U.S. military uniforms and suplies after killing them and tells us nothing about the others except they've been around at least as long as the 1950s.  Also, someone mentioned something about Richard coming to visit Locke when he was young.  I seem to remember, very distinctly, Richard smiling and showing approval when Locke chose the vial of sand and the compass.  He only showed disappointment when Locke took the knife instead of the Book Of Laws.  I think this says more about what kind of leader Locke would be more than anything else, which is probably what upset Richard.  I also believe there is some still unresolved hurt that caused Ben to turn from a seemingly good natured child into what he has become beyond the emotional abuse of his father, and I believe it has to do somehow with Annie.  If I had to put money on what made Ben snap, that would be it.  Strange that there has been no mention of her outside of "The Man Behind the Curtain", which clearly shows he still dwells on the subject since he still has the dolls.  We can probably assume that Annie was not killed in the purge, probably dying beforehand or "one of the people who was smart enough not to end up in that pit" as Ben puts it.  Anyway, I still think she's important somehow.  There has also been no new information about Jacob meant by "Help me".  Leads me to conclude he's being held somehow against his will.  Didn't sound like a generic request.  There was a little desparation in his voice.  Just my take.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: vickilynn on January 29, 2009, 09:29:55 PM
OMG..WHAT IF DESMOND IS WHITEMORES SON...THATS WHY HE DIDN'T WANT HIM TO BE WITH PENNY BECAUSE THE ARE SIBLINGS.LOL..DO WE EVEN KNOW WHO DESMOND'S PARENTS ARE????????

I hope not; what about poor baby Charlie?
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: SQUIRT199 on January 29, 2009, 11:11:38 PM
OMG..WHAT IF DESMOND IS WHITEMORES SON...THATS WHY HE DIDN'T WANT HIM TO BE WITH PENNY BECAUSE THE ARE SIBLINGS.LOL..DO WE EVEN KNOW WHO DESMOND'S PARENTS ARE????????

I hope not; what about poor baby Charlie?

Yeah I dont think incest would be portrayed in a prime time show, and if they reveal it ater, its still the same thing we just find out later.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: matahari on January 30, 2009, 01:34:16 AM
Staggerlee's got it.  If Widmore has been looking for the island for around 20 years, that means he probably was around for the purge, but just wasn't shown to have been there, yet, obviously due to the fact that they didn't want to reveal this part of Charles' history until now.  As for the military clothing, I believe it means nothing more than the Other's appropriated U.S. military uniforms and suplies after killing them and tells us nothing about the others except they've been around at least as long as the 1950s.  Also, someone mentioned something about Richard coming to visit Locke when he was young.  I seem to remember, very distinctly, Richard smiling and showing approval when Locke chose the vial of sand and the compass.  He only showed disappointment when Locke took the knife instead of the Book Of Laws.  I think this says more about what kind of leader Locke would be more than anything else, which is probably what upset Richard.  I also believe there is some still unresolved hurt that caused Ben to turn from a seemingly good natured child into what he has become beyond the emotional abuse of his father, and I believe it has to do somehow with Annie.  If I had to put money on what made Ben snap, that would be it.  Strange that there has been no mention of her outside of "The Man Behind the Curtain", which clearly shows he still dwells on the subject since he still has the dolls.  We can probably assume that Annie was not killed in the purge, probably dying beforehand or "one of the people who was smart enough not to end up in that pit" as Ben puts it.  Anyway, I still think she's important somehow.  There has also been no new information about Jacob meant by "Help me".  Leads me to conclude he's being held somehow against his will.  Didn't sound like a generic request.  There was a little desparation in his voice.  Just my take.

I'm digging it, except for the incest. EW

I like the purge as a jump off. Isn't it logical to assume Ben was part of the others, who were part of DHARMA, and Annie was too. Perhaps DHARMA somehow led to Annie's death and Ben got killed them all for allowing Annie to die. I buy it. But, What exactly did DHARMA do to Ben & Annie?

Jacob is definitely incapacitated somehow. He sounds weak or something. What was up with the crazy jars of fluid the first time we see/meet him?
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Writers_Strike on January 30, 2009, 08:33:23 AM
OMG..WHAT IF DESMOND IS WHITEMORES SON...THATS WHY HE DIDN'T WANT HIM TO BE WITH PENNY BECAUSE THE ARE SIBLINGS.LOL..DO WE EVEN KNOW WHO DESMOND'S PARENTS ARE????????

I hope not; what about poor baby Charlie?

Yeah I dont think incest would be portrayed in a prime time show, and if they reveal it ater, its still the same thing we just find out later.

Count that kids toes.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: ukslim on January 30, 2009, 08:47:03 AM
Count that kids toes.

Then build a big statue.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Bostonlost on January 31, 2009, 03:21:13 PM
What seems to be the most comman name on lost?

Charles:
Charles Widmore
Charlie Hume
Charlie Pace
Charlotte Lewis
All from Great Britain
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: MangoBingo on January 31, 2009, 04:25:02 PM
What seems to be the most comman name on lost?

Charles:
Charles Widmore
Charlie Hume
Charlie Pace
Charlotte Lewis
All from Great Britain

How strange...  :o
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: gjohnson on January 31, 2009, 06:11:10 PM
... I think this says more about what kind of leader Locke would be more than anything else, which is probably what upset Richard...
Or perhaps it says more about the circumstances under which Locke came to lead the Others (I am not totally convinced his "leadership" is anything more than an illusion.) 
I also believe there is some still unresolved hurt that caused Ben to turn from a seemingly good natured child into what he has become beyond the emotional abuse of his father, and I believe it has to do somehow with Annie.  If I had to put money on what made Ben snap, that would be it.  Strange that there has been no mention of her outside of "The Man Behind the Curtain", which clearly shows he still dwells on the subject since he still has the dolls.  We can probably assume that Annie was not killed in the purge, probably dying beforehand or "one of the people who was smart enough not to end up in that pit" as Ben puts it.  Anyway, I still think she's important somehow.  There has also been no new information about Jacob meant by "Help me".  Leads me to conclude he's being held somehow against his will.  Didn't sound like a generic request.  There was a little desparation in his voice.  Just my take.
Ben's pain is deep for sure to be that manipulative... and it is sure to do with Annie (Dannielle? Where'd she get the crazy accent? Dunno, but I'm not ready to let that go. Why did Ben let her hang around the island?). I agree about Jacob. Sounds like he is imprisoned. I'm not so sure we want to see Jacob freed, however.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Mrs Hume on February 01, 2009, 07:20:36 PM
I think Widmore knew Des was on the Island. He knew about the Island, he had been to the Island, Des takes libby's boat (who had been on the Island), and des was on Widmore's solo race. Widmore was trying to maroon Des to keep him from Penny. he tried to pay him off, but it didn't work.

I'm sure Widmore knows how they all got off the Island too.

You brought up one of many of my biggest questions. If Charles planed on putting Desmond on that island with that boat then how would he do that if he himself is still looking for the island?
Maybe this is a good topic to start a thread about. ya know?
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: userh6478 on February 01, 2009, 09:03:17 PM
OMG EXACTLY..CLEARING WHITEMORE KNEW WHERE THE ISLAND WAS, SO WHY WASN'T HE ON THE BOAT HIMSELF IF YOU WANT TO BE THERE SOO DESEPEARTLY..um..well we know him and ben aren't on the same team so...um
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: userh6478 on February 01, 2009, 09:04:41 PM
OO i am idiot.lol I forgot that was in future when the island was moved, but still..Whitemore knew where it was soo..WHy didn't he just go himself
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Mrs Hume on February 01, 2009, 09:12:23 PM
but does widmore know where it is? Did he send desmond?
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: matahari on February 02, 2009, 04:07:57 AM
I think Widmore knew Des was on the Island. He knew about the Island, he had been to the Island, Des takes libby's boat (who had been on the Island), and des was on Widmore's solo race. Widmore was trying to maroon Des to keep him from Penny. he tried to pay him off, but it didn't work.

I'm sure Widmore knows how they all got off the Island too.

You brought up one of many of my biggest questions. If Charles planed on putting Desmond on that island with that boat then how would he do that if he himself is still looking for the island?
Maybe this is a good topic to start a thread about. ya know?

Good point! If Widmore sent Des he would have to have known where the Island was in 2001. Perhaps the Island wanted Desmond for some weird twist of fate for Widmore. Maybe Widmore knew of a way for the Island to draw an individual in fairly easily, but not allow a freighter full of mercenaries onto the Island. As we have seen, it is not exactly easy for someone to just walk in and takeover the Island.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Wishbone on February 02, 2009, 11:23:28 AM
I love that Widmore was an other and I didn't see it coming at all.

It's got me wondering a couple of things:
Maybe Penny was adopted by Widmore like Alex was by Ben
Maybe Annie was Penny's mum
Maybe Annie died in childbirth

Lot of maybe's - I had a better idea when I was reading everyone's posts but I can't string it together now.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: gjohnson on February 02, 2009, 12:25:35 PM
but does widmore know where it is? Did he send desmond?
I would not be surprised in the least to find out that Widmore put Libby up to giving Des a boat.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: msdoran on February 02, 2009, 01:55:31 PM
I think Widmore knew Des was on the Island. He knew about the Island, he had been to the Island, Des takes libby's boat (who had been on the Island), and des was on Widmore's solo race. Widmore was trying to maroon Des to keep him from Penny. he tried to pay him off, but it didn't work.

I'm sure Widmore knows how they all got off the Island too.

You brought up one of many of my biggest questions. If Charles planed on putting Desmond on that island with that boat then how would he do that if he himself is still looking for the island?
Maybe this is a good topic to start a thread about. ya know?

Good point! If Widmore sent Des he would have to have known where the Island was in 2001. Perhaps the Island wanted Desmond for some weird twist of fate for Widmore. Maybe Widmore knew of a way for the Island to draw an individual in fairly easily, but not allow a freighter full of mercenaries onto the Island. As we have seen, it is not exactly easy for someone to just walk in and takeover the Island.

I am going to further speculate on my two groups of others theory that I have speculated on in another post because your thoughts are playing well into supporting my theory (which in a nutshell is that there are two groups of others, richard alpert others and widmore others, and they are vying for control of the island).

Now, we still don't know what happened after the purge but there is a good chance that the Richothers sent someone to turn the donkey wheel and move the island, which would have completely cut Widmore off.  I don't believe that Widmore has the island's best interest at heart like Richard Alpert does, and that is why Widmore created the Dharma project with Alvar Hanso. The experiments they were conducting hurt the island, and once the purge happened the Richothers took further steps to protect themselves.

Following that line of speculation there is no way that Widmore could have sent Desmond there. I think there is a good chance that annual race of his was a front to see if any boats ever went mysteriously missing in the Pacific to give him a starting point on where to search for the island.

I think the Island drew Desmond to it, to act as a protector of sorts (or who really knows why that Island does anything, it does seem to have a strong survival sense though).

As for how Widmore found the island to send a freighter full of mercenaries, I am guessing the same way that Penny did. Through the Electromagnetic Pulse that the Swan gave when it imploded.

It just all seems to come together for me. The people who know the most about the island want it the worst, and it would only naturally make sense that it would be people who had inhabited the island at some point and were fully aware of its powers.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: opgelost on February 02, 2009, 02:29:19 PM
Desmond goes to Daniel in 1996 and tells him that they both are on the island in 2004.
Widmore finances Daniel's work. So when he tells Desmond about the racecompetition in 2001,
he allready knows that Desmond is going to end on the island.


Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Mrs Hume on February 02, 2009, 05:11:33 PM
Desmond goes to Daniel in 1996 and tells him that they both are on the island in 2004.
Widmore finances Daniel's work. So when he tells Desmond about the racecompetition in 2001,
he allready knows that Desmond is going to end on the island.





oooooh yes !!!!! that is right! (but which comes first Desmond  gets on the island first or widmore puts him there? was Desmond able to change the future when he went back to the past? thats where this whole sticky paradox comes into question.) but I think that is a good thought. Maybe widmore puts something in the boat that Desmond is on to draw the boat to it. like some type of metal (you know like the black rock had). because that is too much of a coincidence that out of all the other boaters that Desmond is the one who gets on the island.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Mrs Hume on February 02, 2009, 05:17:38 PM
I think Widmore knew Des was on the Island. He knew about the Island, he had been to the Island, Des takes libby's boat (who had been on the Island), and des was on Widmore's solo race. Widmore was trying to maroon Des to keep him from Penny. he tried to pay him off, but it didn't work.

I'm sure Widmore knows how they all got off the Island too.

You brought up one of many of my biggest questions. If Charles planed on putting Desmond on that island with that boat then how would he do that if he himself is still looking for the island?
Maybe this is a good topic to start a thread about. ya know?

Good point! If Widmore sent Des he would have to have known where the Island was in 2001. Perhaps the Island wanted Desmond for some weird twist of fate for Widmore. Maybe Widmore knew of a way for the Island to draw an individual in fairly easily, but not allow a freighter full of mercenaries onto the Island. As we have seen, it is not exactly easy for someone to just walk in and takeover the Island.

I am going to further speculate on my two groups of others theory that I have speculated on in another post because your thoughts are playing well into supporting my theory (which in a nutshell is that there are two groups of others, richard alpert others and widmore others, and they are vying for control of the island).  that I believe to be true at this point. Once we saw that Widmore was on the island as an other .

Now, we still don't know what happened after the purge but there is a good chance that the Richothers sent someone to turn the donkey wheel and move the island, which would have completely cut Widmore off. I think we are all thinking this person who turned the wheel was widmore and that is why he can't come back like ben. but now they are both trying and when widmore did it they didn't know at that point that once they turned the wheel that person can't come back or i don't think he would have done it. and since then, now they know what happens when they do turn it that is why they kind of know what they have to do. . I don't believe that Widmore has the island's best interest at heart like Richard Alpert does, and that is why Widmore created the Dharma project with Alvar Hanso. The experiments they were conducting hurt the island, and once the purge happened the Richothers took further steps to protect themselves.

Following that line of speculation there is no way that Widmore could have sent Desmond there. I agree, see my last post above. although opgelost does have a good theory, i just don't know if it is correct because i am still confussed about this time travel stuff and so i don't know if he can do something that never happened I think there is a good chance that annual race of his was a front to see if any boats ever went mysteriously missing in the Pacific to give him a starting point on where to search for the island.

I think the Island drew Desmond to it, to act as a protector of sorts (or who really knows why that Island does anything, it does seem to have a strong survival sense though).

As for how Widmore found the island to send a freighter full of mercenaries, I am guessing the same way that Penny did. Through the Electromagnetic Pulse that the Swan gave when it imploded. I think that that is a safe bet.

It just all seems to come together for me. The people who know the most about the island want it the worst, and it would only naturally make sense that it would be people who had inhabited the island at some point and were fully aware of its powers.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Mrs Hume on February 02, 2009, 05:23:39 PM
I love that Widmore was an other and I didn't see it coming at all.

It's got me wondering a couple of things:
Maybe Penny was adopted by Widmore like Alex was by Ben
Maybe Annie was Penny's mum
Maybe Annie died in childbirth

Lot of maybe's - I had a better idea when I was reading everyone's posts but I can't string it together now.

lol, that happeneds to me allll the time! lol
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Bostonlost on February 04, 2009, 01:53:45 AM
About Widmore I don't ha can go back to the Island

I think that he (and maybe Hawkins) moved that Donkey Wheel once before

Lilly: I think Libby was same sort of agent/recruiter for Widmore that Abaddon is

She first puts Desmond in play buy giving him that boat ....I think(know) the boat had a tracking device

All of those boats do now in that race : http://www.sevenoceans.com/SoloAroundTheWorld/BOC.htm

So when Charles last gets a singal??? Maybe Widmore sends Libby and Abaddon out there again getting more clues putting more people into play...Don't fotgot about Leonard Simms...... I think Libby goes to watch Leonard at the Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute and finds Hurley instead....Widmore gets that last signal from the plane and sends out the Boat

Not before he has Abondan, puts that team together
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: opgelost on February 04, 2009, 06:58:51 AM
I don't think Widmore sends Des to the island. Mrs. Hawking did with brother Campbell.

Campbell finds Des k.o on the street and takes him to the monastery. He becomes a monk.
Campbell said : For whatever reason, your path has led you here. Now you are one of us. (us like Mr. Hawking and him?)
Maybe that is why he is special and the rules don't apply to him.
Later Des tells Ruth that he knew he was supposed to go with brother Campbell for a greater calling. When Des gets fired Cambell said: God has different plans than you be a monk, bigger plans. Do whatever comes next. And than he meets Penny.

When Des wants to marry Penny mrs. Hawking comes and reminds him of his destiny and convinces him that he has no choice,
because the universe coursecorrecting etc. Desmond allready knew he had to go to the island, because of his flashes.
I never understood if Des was really reliving his life after turning the key or if it just was a flash back like all the others and Des, like
on the island and in the army, allready had flashes of the future (now he is one of them he sees what is going to happen, like mr. hawking and the man with the red shoes) and knew he had to go on that race and sacrifice his relationship with Penny (brother Campbell: don't underestimate the value of sacrifice.)

There was no tracking device on Desmond's boat, he was there for 3 years before the freighter came.
But Desmond caused everything. By following Kelvin and not pushing the button he caused the oceanic plane to crash.
By turning the key, he caused the island to become visible for Widmore. By contacting Penny he caused the oceanic 6 to be rescued.
By contacting Daniel in 1996 he caused Widmore to know that he would make it to the island and Dan would make it too.
I have no idea what Widmore knows and how he uses Des, but I don't believe he was the one sending him to the island.
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: LostinLock on April 30, 2009, 09:14:37 PM
As someone who was an ohter for such a long time I hope they bring his background to the foreground.

I mean if you want to take the other side of the coin here Widmore is protecting the same island but with a different force and approach.

where as Ben claims to be the island keeper but just doesn't have the same gusto.

hmmm me wonders what else caused the riff between these two amigos ???
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: MangoBingo on April 30, 2009, 09:18:14 PM
hmmm me wonders what else caused the riff between these two amigos ???

I'm wondering if Widmore raped Ellie - or at least forced himself onto her in some way? Why would she ever want to get pregnant after realising that she kills her own son?
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: hyperform on April 30, 2009, 09:22:35 PM
hmmm me wonders what else caused the riff between these two amigos ???

I'm wondering if Widmore raped Ellie - or at least forced himself onto her in some way? Why would she ever want to get pregnant after realising that she kills her own son?
or what if they were together, and Charles cheated on her with an outsider to have Penny, and Ben buddied up with Eloise to support him in his ousting of Widmore!
Title: Re: Charles Widmore was an "other"
Post by: Staggerlee on May 01, 2009, 09:33:17 AM
hmmm me wonders what else caused the riff between these two amigos ???

I'm wondering if Widmore raped Ellie - or at least forced himself onto her in some way? Why would she ever want to get pregnant after realising that she kills her own son?


Or like the Lil' Myles guy, Lil' Dan was already in the camp when Traveler Dan visits...