Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 5 => Episode 5x01 => Topic started by: losttill0208 on January 22, 2009, 05:50:19 PM

Title: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: losttill0208 on January 22, 2009, 05:50:19 PM
I was because Ben turned the wheel and left..

Ben is the chief reason why all the "bad things" happened.. This has been bugging me for a while now.. So Ben knows that Keamy's dead..Something he's responsible for too.. Ben knows that Keamy's death means the freighter will possibly be exploded to bits.. This means that.. whatever communication the losties have with the outside world and their means of transportation is lost at least for the moment.. And what does he do? he turns the wheel.. the so-called measure of last resort? and everything goes awry..

Did Ben really have to still turn that wheel?  
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: Asmodean on January 22, 2009, 06:37:57 PM
I think he had to turn it to save it from Widmore and the outside world.
The reasoning is Jacob, via Christian, told Locke he had to move the island to save it.  As far as we know, the "how" to do it was known only to Ben.  So Ben takes them to the Orchid, knows it's a one-way-trip for the person that turns it, and does it.  For some reason (Dharmacaust?) Jacob isn't happy with Ben anymore.  Ben even says so as he begins to turn the wheel.

The current premise is that getting the O-6 back to the island will fix everything.  Seems to me if somebody went down and turned the wheel back a couple notches, that might work too.  Time will tell.
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: E.S.B. on January 22, 2009, 07:29:37 PM
Seems to me if somebody went down and turned the wheel back a couple notches, that might work too.  Time will tell.

Yes, I like that Asmo!!!  They just need to adjust the frequency a little bit; it's like they tuned into 106.0 FM instead of 105.9 like they're supposed to.

Okay, seriously...  something that has bugged me along these lines is that Ben and Richard both encouraged some of the O6 to leave.  They let Kate and Sayid go for helping rescue him, and Hurley too.  Ben even said, IIRC, that they better get off the Island quickly if they're going to leave, or something along those lines.  So if Ben thought the O6 leaving might have caused all these bad things, or knocked the universe's timeline off its axis or whatever, then why would he have enabled or encouraged them to go?  It's just strange.  Maybe it doesn't mean anything - maybe he just didn't think this would happen.
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: Asmodean on January 22, 2009, 07:55:29 PM
That's bugged me too.  All I could think of is that they weren't on the list.  Maybe the list came from Ben instead of Jacob.
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: hyperform on January 22, 2009, 08:01:23 PM
what if Christian really doesn't speak for Jacob, he just said he did so he could get Locke to do this for some ulterior reason, while Claire and Christian have Jacob bound and gagged in a back room somewhere
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on January 22, 2009, 08:01:54 PM
I think that the only way for Ben to get back is through multiple people having to do something.  So he knew that he could come back one day but he needed some people to leave.  He seems like he is up to something more than just getting back to the island.
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: E.S.B. on January 22, 2009, 08:05:47 PM
I think that the only way for Ben to get back is through multiple people having to do something.  So he knew that he could come back one day but he needed some people to leave.  He seems like he is up to something more than just getting back to the island.

Yeah, that could work.  He may have planned that all along.  I had heard someone else speculating that the only way for him to get back is by surrounding himself with other people who needed to get back.  So maybe he sends Kate, Sayid, et al, off the Island so he has a means of returning.
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: eelpie62 on January 22, 2009, 09:49:41 PM
Ben even said, IIRC, that they better get off the Island quickly if they're going to leave, or something along those lines.  So if Ben thought the O6 leaving might have caused all these bad things, or knocked the universe's timeline off its axis or whatever, then why would he have enabled or encouraged them to go?  It's just strange.  Maybe it doesn't mean anything - maybe he just didn't think this would happen.

Ben is in contact with a group of people that include Jill the butcher and Mrs. Hawking, maybe he has some way of getting info about the island and now knows that he shouldn't have allowed/encouraged people to leave the island.
Or maybe he was still upset about Alex being killed and wasn't thinking clearly.
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: lola on January 22, 2009, 09:54:01 PM
i think that whatever way they're planning to get back that it must be some miraculous way because ben said before he left that whoever moved the island could never come back.  so he must be plotting some way to get back on without jacob knowing?  or maybe he has to bring everyone (surrounding himself by those who can go back) in order to get on. 

i wonder how often the island has been moved by someone turning the wheel and leaving.  ben said it was a last resort or something at the end of last season.  maybe the old lady moved it once, the butcher woman, maybe they have to get back in a special way, too, so they're all working together so that their worlds won't end, "God help us all," etc.
Title: So if the Island has started skipping because the 6 left..........
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on January 23, 2009, 08:24:51 PM
.......... how come nothing happened when Walt and Michael left?
Is it only because Ben turned the wheel? And why is it only the Oceanic 6 who have to return, why not Walt?
Appologies if already answered.
Title: Re: So if the Island has started skipping because the 6 left..........
Post by: lostandfree on January 23, 2009, 08:34:22 PM
It's because Ben turned the wheel...no idea about Walt.
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: Asmodean on January 24, 2009, 12:55:52 PM
They left on compass bearing 325.  Safe passage through the maelstrom.
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: gjohnson on January 24, 2009, 03:07:44 PM
Perhaps Walt doesn't have a role to play in setting things right. That detail has no impact on the events of the future so it doesn't matter where Walt is, things will still be set right, the universe will self-correct and off we go...
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: E.S.B. on January 25, 2009, 02:20:55 PM
Maybe Walt has to go back too.  Maybe that's why back in Season 3 we saw "taller Walt" ordering Locke to get up because he had work to do.  They get back on the Island around the time Ben shoots Locke, and Walt tells Locke what to do.  Walt is special.  And Walt told Hurley that Jeremy Bentham came to see him.
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: hyperform on January 25, 2009, 03:24:33 PM
I think Ben doesn't want Walt to come back, because he is more powerful than Locke and Ben combined, and that is the reason he let Michael leave with him, because Walt is the greatest threat of all.
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: PrincessLeia on January 25, 2009, 04:27:26 PM
I think Ben doesn't want Walt to come back, because he is more powerful than Locke and Ben combined, and that is the reason he let Michael leave with him, because Walt is the greatest threat of all.
In the Room 23 mobisode, Ben says that Jacob wanted Walt.  I wonder who made the decision to send him back.  Jacob?  Ben?  Bea?  ???
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: hyperform on January 25, 2009, 05:12:06 PM
Jacob wanted Locke too, but that didn't stop Ben from putting a bullet thru him.
Title: Re: So if the Island has started skipping because the 6 left..........
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 25, 2009, 06:52:59 PM
.......... how come nothing happened when Walt and Michael left?
Is it only because Ben turned the wheel? And why is it only the Oceanic 6 who have to return, why not Walt?
Appologies if already answered.

Great question!  Why only the 06? Not even Desmond. Only those from the plane that are still alive. except for Walt.
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: laklost on January 25, 2009, 09:05:50 PM
Maybe the O6 are the ones Ben believes he can manipulate.  Des and Walt and Ji Yeon are out of his circle of influence.
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: Creflo on January 26, 2009, 10:00:33 AM
Quote
Seems to me if somebody went down and turned the wheel back a couple notches, that might work too.

I'll bet it doesn't work that way.  Turning the wheel agitates the spooky Island mojo glow and once it reaches full spookitude, the magic just kicks in.  The only way of dialing in specific time/space coordinates is to build a Orchid-type microwave enclosure nearby and fiddle with dials (which are now destroyed).
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: lola on January 29, 2009, 12:19:59 AM
ben tells richard that he comes from the future.  daniel tells ellie, i'm sure this will happen over and over.  perhaps the 6 have to go back because plans were made (who knows what!) based on having the people from the crash there.  they didn't seem surprised that the plane crashed there, they had spies and got names of who was there.  they knew so much about each passenger (and that's still a mystery of sorts, how they got that info so fast) and didn't seem all that surprised.  maybe they were waiting for the crash, based on stories handed down from the 50s, that people would come from the future, that someone would save them (from what?), that kind of thing?  so maybe they only need the 6 because they were foretold they would be there?
Title: Re: It wasn't because they (the o6) left....
Post by: Mrs Hume on January 29, 2009, 03:49:05 AM
right, like Locke told Richard that he was the new leader in the past so they look for him and make him the new leader, so that he can tell Richard that he is the new leader in the future so they can look for him and make him the new leader in the past .... and Infinity.... . and now he is the new leader. I think this is the way it's happening. but if you ask me this seems more like a loop to me than anything. which came first? !!!! aaaaaah sometimes just when I think I'm getting it I realize I don't got it! lol


(forgive the rambling, it's reeeeally late)