Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 4 => Episode 4x13 => Topic started by: Hurley rocks dudes on May 30, 2008, 02:23:14 PM

Title: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Hurley rocks dudes on May 30, 2008, 02:23:14 PM
Sun approached widmore and it seems that she blames ben for jin's death. thoughts?
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: beanblog on May 30, 2008, 02:34:49 PM
Seems that way.  She claims that there are two people responsible and names Widmore as one, right?  Do we assume Ben is the other?  Sure seems like a played out power struggle between the two.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Hurley rocks dudes on May 30, 2008, 02:35:58 PM
since she's helping widmore, she's would be against ben and sayid. and maybe she found out somehow that ben killed keamy which set off the bomb.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: bfth on May 30, 2008, 02:38:56 PM
She told her father she held 2 people responsible and he was one of them.  Is Widmore #2?
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Shakey on May 30, 2008, 02:40:11 PM
Widmore is #2... I think she's just going to manipulate Widmore to get the best possible opportunity to screw him over.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: tonysee200x on May 30, 2008, 02:40:55 PM
She told her father she held 2 people responsible and he was one of them.  Is Widmore #2?

Jack thinks it is him (and why would we doubt him?)
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Gizmogrl83 on May 30, 2008, 02:45:11 PM
I think Sun is smarter than to blame Jack for what happened to Jin.  How the hell could Jack have saved him? It doesn't make sense. Is she mad that Jack was the one who told her that Jin was dead? I mean don't shoot the messenger people.  I think Widmore is definitely the more plausible person.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Shakey on May 30, 2008, 02:52:43 PM
I could see her blaming Jack as he is typically the guy who calls the shots and he was adamant that Jin was gone and there was nothing that could be done.  However, I don't see Sun harbouring (I'm Canadian, folks) those same feelings later.  I believe she'd, with time, realize that Jack was right... particularly after experiencing the helicopter crashing into the ocean after they ran out of fuel.  She would know better than to blame Jack after that.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: louisianagirl76l on May 30, 2008, 02:55:16 PM
She may hold hope that Jin is still alive. She probably wants to manipulate Widmore so that she can use his knowlege about the island to try and find it again for herself....then maybe screw him over after she gets what she wants.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on May 30, 2008, 02:56:52 PM
This is all but a part of Ben's master plan. Ben has to get Sun to think that Jin is dead when he is actually not but alive on the island with Michael. Remember Ben says to Jack at the funeral home that he could get them all to go back. Of course Ben adds that this is a theory and has many ideas on how to do this but how? Ben as we know needs Jack, Kate, Aaron, Sun, Locke's body, and Sayid to go back. Does this include Widmore? I think that she may go help Widmore but it is a part of Ben's plan to make Sun angry to get her to do what he wants.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Hurley rocks dudes on May 30, 2008, 02:59:53 PM
This is all but a part of Ben's master plan. Ben has to get Sun to think that Jin is dead when he is actually not but alive on the island with Michael. Remember Ben says to Jack at the funeral home that he could get them all to go back. Of course Ben adds that this is a theory and has many ideas on how to do this but how? Ben as we know needs Jack, Kate, Aaron, Sun, Locke's body, and Sayid to go back. Does this include Widmore? I think that she may go help Widmore but it is a part of Ben's plan to make Sun angry to get her to do what he wants.
how is michael on the island? the bomb blew up in his face!
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: blueeyed2200 on May 30, 2008, 03:29:03 PM
Michael is dead - case closed.  No chance he is alive.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on May 30, 2008, 03:32:22 PM
Can't say that Michael is dead.
Bomb never showed to kill Michael-we "asume" he is dead but they cut the scene between Michael and Christian.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Falam on May 30, 2008, 03:32:37 PM
Agreed - Michael=dead.

Ben still could be using Sun to destroy Widmore from inside.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: BobBX542 on May 30, 2008, 03:32:54 PM
I think that Sun is actually just setting up Widmore to kill him, or have him killed in some fashion. As for Michael being alive...if he is alive, I will stop watching the show. He was about 2 feet away from the 500 lbs. (according to Keamy) of C-4. And, he already said that he came there to die.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Shakey on May 30, 2008, 03:34:31 PM
Can't say that Michael is dead.
Bomb never showed to kill Michael-we "asume" he is dead but they cut the scene between Michael and Christian.
How would they have shown the bomb kill Michael?  If they could have pulled that off, it'd make some great tv.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Hurley rocks dudes on May 30, 2008, 03:35:22 PM
Can't say that Michael is dead.
Bomb never showed to kill Michael-we "asume" he is dead but they cut the scene between Michael and Christian.
micheal said "who the hell are you?" BOOM! bomb blows up.... dead.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on May 30, 2008, 03:56:51 PM
AH, Michael says "Who the hell are you" and then we cut to the outside of the freighter.
Besides, Walt was asking Hurley about his dad. Think Hurley would lie to Walt? Hurley also implies that they are alive.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Shakey on May 30, 2008, 04:14:47 PM
AH, Michael says "Who the hell are you" and then we cut to the outside of the freighter.
Besides, Walt was asking Hurley about his dad. Think Hurley would lie to Walt? Hurley also implies that they are alive.
Actually, Christian replied "You can go now" before to the cut of the explosion from the outside of the freighter (since filming the explosion from the inside would've been problematic).  And, yes... I do believe Hurley lied to Walt.  How could he not have?  He was in the chopper, then in the inflatable raft in the ocean, then on Penny's boat, then in the inflatable boat being rescued on the island.  He wouldn't have any knowledge of Michael surviving the blast (if he actually did survive... which, he didn't).
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: BobBX542 on May 30, 2008, 04:37:24 PM
AH, Michael says "Who the hell are you" and then we cut to the outside of the freighter.
Besides, Walt was asking Hurley about his dad. Think Hurley would lie to Walt? Hurley also implies that they are alive.
Actually, Christian replied "You can go now" before to the cut of the explosion from the outside of the freighter (since filming the explosion from the inside would've been problematic).  And, yes... I do believe Hurley lied to Walt.  How could he not have?  He was in the chopper, then in the inflatable raft in the ocean, then on Penny's boat, then in the inflatable boat being rescued on the island.  He wouldn't have any knowledge of Michael surviving the blast (if he actually did survive... which, he didn't).

On top of that, here's this kid that you had some kind of friendship with, who despite being angry with him (his father), cares about him. HE asks you if his dad is still alive, even if you know he's deffinitely dead, what are you going to say?? you're going to say he's alive.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: nofate on May 30, 2008, 06:31:49 PM
I am hoping that Sun wants to resurrect the Dharma Initiative so she can find the island and rescue Jin, or else she wants revenge on Ben not sure which.  Oh and Michael IS dead, you can't take that away from me!
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: mudslag on May 30, 2008, 06:37:36 PM
Michael is dead http://darkufo.blogspot.com/2008/05/harold-perrineau-dishes-on-his-lost.html

Widmore is the other person Sun blames. Its Widmore's boat and she knows it, she also knows that Widmore sent them to kill everyone on the Island, that includes her and Jin and their kid. She now knows that her father must have known. So she blames both her dad and Widmore.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: tylerncc on May 30, 2008, 06:41:11 PM
Sun blames two people for Jin's death, or at least his death in her mind...who knows, maybe he isnt dead, right?  We know her father is one of them because she told him.  I think Ben (not Jack, not Widmore) is the other and here's my theory.  Bentham (locke) goes to everyone at some point to get them to come back to the island, and we can assume that he came to Sun as well.  Locke was the person there when Ben kills Keamy, knowing full well that it will blow up the boat, and not really caring about it.  Locke was not so cool with that attitude.  I think he tells Sun the story of how it went down, so now she is pissed at Ben.  I think this is the most likely option since she said to Widmore "We have a common interest" ie find Ben.  She also says something about how the 6 were not the only ones to get off the island, implying that Ben and possibly others left the island at some point to Widmore.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Asmodean on May 30, 2008, 06:50:24 PM
Too many if's in that.

I'll stand by Jack as #2.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Lost_Is_My_Favorite on May 30, 2008, 07:38:54 PM
I think it's possible that Michael is alive, as well as Jin.  When Christian told him his job was done.  There could have been a period of time where Michael ran to the deck, told Jin they needed to get off the boat, and jumped in the water as it blew.  The blast happened in the middle of the ship, so I feel it's possible they could have survived.  But how do they survive the water?  Swim to shore?  hmmmmm 
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 30, 2008, 08:04:53 PM
Mikey's dead, folks. Time to mourn or celebrate as the case may be.

Tyler, welcome!

The problem is that Sun makes this statement to her father only about three months into the future (she's still pregnant at the time). Call it Spring, 2005. At this point Ben is busily time traveling to October. He won't be telling anyone anything till he gets there.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: kjenkins on May 30, 2008, 11:22:38 PM
I think Sun is smarter than to blame Jack for what happened to Jin.   
Absolutely right. Sun is a VERY smart cookie and I think we're going to see a lot more of just how smart. She's playing Widmore for sure. If anyone blames Jack for Jen's death believe me ... it's probably only Jack! The guy has some kind of messianic complex and thinks EVERYTHING depends on him and what he does or doesn't do ... it's his major flaw --- he's a nice enough guy but a serious control freak.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LostinAlaska on May 31, 2008, 04:59:39 AM
LostAndSeek, that's nice your tell the newbies welcome. You haven't told me yet, but I feel welcome that you welcome them ;)

Ok So here's what my brains say: Sun isn't going to kill anyone. She has a child, I doubt she'd go that far? When did she become such a mercenary... I think she's a business gal (obviously). What are her intentions? I don't really feel like it's revenge *shrugs*. I do think she has a master plan up her sleeve and I do think it's possible it involves buying out the bad guys. I feel like Ben and Widmore are playing Evil vs. Evil and Sun is are only hope? (and Hurleys $$) I don't know. This is all too mind blowing. I'm gonna go back to reading instead of posting haha I get mind-kicked.  :D
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 31, 2008, 09:37:49 AM
Yikes! Welcome, Alaska!!

I agree Ben and Widmore are pretty durn evil, and I agree that Sun is probably not looking to kill anyone. If she blames Widmore, she will probably try to damage him fiscally rather than physically.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: RM on May 31, 2008, 12:06:04 PM
I can definitely see Sun blaming Jack.  At the last minute, he makes sure to save his loved one (Kate) at the expense of her loved one (Jin).  Especially after she sees Jin running to catch the chopper just after it took off.

I think Jin's probably alive, though.  Who knows what supplies were in the stuff they threw off the chopper to lighten the load?  I could also see his being picked up by Daniel and the Redshirts.

Michael is definitely dead.  There's no dramatic value in bringing him back a second time when you thought you were through with him.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 31, 2008, 04:29:23 PM
That's a good point on why Sun might blame Jack... or Kate for that matter.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on May 31, 2008, 09:07:37 PM
First off, to keep on topic, let me address my comments to Sun:  In "The Glass Ballerina" we see that Sun has absolutely no problem in lying to her father about who broke the glass ballerina--she threw the maid under the bus knowing full well that her father would fire the maid.  Next we see Sun's lover hit the hood of a car clutching the pearls he bought for Sun.  Jin first visited the guy at her father's request, but I have ALWAYS believed it was Sun who threw her lover out the window after she followed Jin to find out to whom he was going to "deliver a message," despite what Lindelof/Cuse say.  They would not have shown her ability to be so ruthless, had they not intended for the audience to even consider that it was  Sun who threw her boyfriend out of a window.

We've also seen Sun be relentless in dealing with Jin's mother.  Sun also shot and killed one of TheOthers (can't remember her name) at point blank range and didn't even blink twice about having done so.  She has not JUST now gone over to the dark side, she's been tip toing on the brink for a very, very long time.

That was just the beginning--I can't wait to see what deliciously nasty things she'll do now that she's back.

BTW, I don't believe Jin is dead.  I think when Ben moved the Island, he moved the Island in time--to a previous time, therein before the Mercs' infiltration.  That's why the Socks'll never win the Series ;)  thoughts?

sunny cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LostinAlaska on May 31, 2008, 09:28:57 PM
Thanks LostAndSeek! haha ;)

I get why people would think Sun would be mad at Jack and Kate, but come on. That is such an immature, whiny reason.
"Jack wouldn't let me go back!" <--- sounds lame to me and I really don't think the writers would throw that in. I'm sorry, I'm
not trying to put down anybody else or what you think but it does sound way to grade school for Sun's style. She's the walk-up-to-my-dad-and-blow-him-outta-the-water type.... im(humble)o. And if THAT'S the reason someone might think she's mad at Jack, why not the pilot? Or anyone else in the plane? Just b/c she stared at Jack w/ disbelief and he seemed all hard shelled? She could have jumped if she really wanted to. She could have stayed for Jin. She's preggers and might've been thinking about the bebe. But I just don't think Sun would go all nutso on her friends. And her second scream made me stop crying and give a weird face like "Really?" Ok but all negative aside it's really really great to hear what others think so keep up the great work (even if I seem negative, I do appreciate reading everyones stuff)
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 31, 2008, 10:05:42 PM
Well, when it comes to the combination of grief and blame you can't always count on logic. The logical person is Widmore and he may well be her target, but I wouldn't rule Jack out entirely.

Des, I think you're being too hard on her. Yeah, she lied and cheated, but that's a far cry from murder. Might she go very dark now? Yeah she might, but not in her past, IMHO.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: tylerncc on May 31, 2008, 11:32:29 PM
LostandSeek, thanks for the welcome!  Ive been lurking a while, only recently decided to post!  Anyway, excellent point on the timeline...  Guess I need to rethink my position on who the two are!  Still not convinced its Jack, though...we'll see!
-T
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Maxor127 on May 31, 2008, 11:44:30 PM
I'm going with Jack as my #2 as well.  It seems obvious to me.  Kate tried to go back and get Jin, Jack stopped her.  Sun wanted to go back and get Jin, Jack stopped her too.  He basically said "screw Jin" and left him.  It was most telling when he grabbed Kate and said he's not leaving without HER.  Jin wasn't that important to him.  If I were Sun, I'd blame him.  I don't see how she could blame anyone else.  I guess she could blame Ben, but as far as we know, she doesn't know what went down there and even then, I'd say Ben would be a #3 person to blame.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on June 01, 2008, 12:21:45 AM
Thanks LostAndSeek! haha ;)

I get why people would think Sun would be mad at Jack and Kate, but come on. That is such an immature, whiny reason.
"Jack wouldn't let me go back!" <--- sounds lame to me and I really don't think the writers would throw that in. I'm sorry, I'm
not trying to put down anybody else or what you think but it does sound way to grade school for Sun's style. She's the walk-up-to-my-dad-and-blow-him-outta-the-water type.... im(humble)o. And if THAT'S the reason someone might think she's mad at Jack, why not the pilot? Or anyone else in the plane? Just b/c she stared at Jack w/ disbelief and he seemed all hard shelled? She could have jumped if she really wanted to. She could have stayed for Jin. She's preggers and might've been thinking about the bebe. But I just don't think Sun would go all nutso on her friends. And her second scream made me stop crying and give a weird face like "Really?" Ok but all negative aside it's really really great to hear what others think so keep up the great work (even if I seem negative, I do appreciate reading everyones stuff)

Actually, Lindelof/Cuse said that Sun would be a force to be reckoned with the following season, 5.  They've been setting it up for 2 years--it's not my story, it's theirs,  but the forshadowing is there.  Revenge or vengance is nothing new for Sun.  I strongly suggest you go back and rewatch the seasons preceding 4.  Sun has always been vengeful, particularly when it came to protecting her own interests, this time, being Jin.

she will be a force to be reckoned with; we all saw it coming, if you were paying attention to the storyline, and it's not going to be pretty.  BTW LostnS:  We've seen her murder in cold blood.... so I don't know what show you're watching, it must not be the same as mine.  Sun has always had the capacity to be relentless, and it's coming out in spades now.

cheers
*Des8

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: JBRam on June 01, 2008, 01:14:09 PM
I think Sun is smarter than to blame Jack for what happened to Jin.   
Absolutely right. Sun is a VERY smart cookie and I think we're going to see a lot more of just how smart. She's playing Widmore for sure. If anyone blames Jack for Jen's death believe me ... it's probably only Jack! The guy has some kind of messianic complex and thinks EVERYTHING depends on him and what he does or doesn't do ... it's his major flaw --- he's a nice enough guy but a serious control freak.
You do realize of course that angry women are not generally known for their rationalization, right?

I think Sun blaims Paik and Jack.

I think Jin is dead with a possibility of being alive, and Michael is definitely dead. If you have any doubts, the last think Michael hears is "You can go now," obviously saying he is allowed to die.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LostAndSeek on June 01, 2008, 05:37:21 PM
Des, I assume you're talking about Sun killing Colleen. That wasn't murder in my book. Based on what's happened before Sun has every reason to fear the Others (kidnapped Claire, tortured Steve to death, etc.) She tells Colleen to stop but she keeps coming at her.... Her options are surrender or fight. She chose to fight.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on June 01, 2008, 09:39:02 PM
Des, I assume you're talking about Sun killing Colleen. That wasn't murder in my book. Based on what's happened before Sun has every reason to fear the Others (kidnapped Claire, tortured Steve to death, etc.) She tells Colleen to stop but she keeps coming at her.... Her options are surrender or fight. She chose to fight.

It takes a lot of guts to shoot someone at point blank range, and Colleen was unarmed.  It'll be fun to watch Sun's personality change now that she's off the Island.

Great thoughts, though!
cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: DizzyIzzy on June 02, 2008, 04:16:31 AM
I don't think Sun went over to the dark side anymore than any character on Lost.  When she approached Widmore my first thoughts were that she was going to make him pay the price for his part in the drama of the Losties being on the Island.  I didn't think she was going to team with Widmore.  She said she blamed two people for Jin's death. One is Ben and I thought the second was Widmore (or Jack, if it were me, I'd blame Jack).

Sun is a character that I sense many viewers don't like or don't relate to much, but I've always enjoyed the episodes that focused on Sun and Jin.  Might be that I could relate to a married couple or I just enjoyed watching Jin learn to communicate with everyone.  Jin's camping epi was one of my favorites!
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LostinAlaska on June 02, 2008, 06:23:29 AM
Actually, Lindelof/Cuse said that Sun would be a force to be reckoned with the following season, 5.  They've been setting it up for 2 years--it's not my story, it's theirs,  but the forshadowing is there.  Revenge or vengance is nothing new for Sun.  I strongly suggest you go back and rewatch the seasons preceding 4.  Sun has always been vengeful, particularly when it came to protecting her own interests, this time, being Jin.

she will be a force to be reckoned with; we all saw it coming, if you were paying attention to the storyline, and it's not going to be pretty.  BTW LostnS:  We've seen her murder in cold blood.... so I don't know what show you're watching, it must not be the same as mine.  Sun has always had the capacity to be relentless, and it's coming out in spades now.

cheers
*Des8

cheers
*Des8

Wow clearly you feel strongly about this  :P I was just saying that I wouldn't be shocked if Jack wasn't the only one on Sun's chopping block. And if she was so interested in protecting her own interests don't you think she'd be thinking about her somewhat grown child too and leaving it motherless? People change when they have kids. So whether Sun seeks revenge or not I think it's naive to say we all know the outcome even if one might dissect the producers notes. I mean, the show would suck if it was to predictable! I don't have time to rewatch the previous seasons over and over again, but I'll rely on serious forum posters instead to keep me straight  ::) haha thanks!  8)
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on June 02, 2008, 07:24:18 AM
In my opinion, in the epi "Through the Looking Glass" everything changed, meaning our Losties' personalities.  I've posed this before, but in the book "Through the Looking Glass" everything is exactly the opposite of what is reality.  How does this relate to LOST?  The writers are very clever in naming their episodes to give us clues as to the story right under our noses.  I believe in that episode alone, we saw so many changes to our characters' personalities, Sun included...

but was she always so sweet?  What her story has told us through 4 seasons is that she's capable of a great many things, not all of them sweet==quite the contrary.  My point is that she's always been capable of dark things, including when she was a child.  The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, my Lostie friend ;)

see you in another life, brothah
cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LostinLock on June 02, 2008, 09:00:18 AM
In my opinion, in the epi "Through the Looking Glass" everything changed, meaning our Losties' personalities.  I've posed this before, but in the book "Through the Looking Glass" everything is exactly the opposite of what is reality.  How does this relate to LOST?  The writers are very clever in naming their episodes to give us clues as to the story right under our noses.  I believe in that episode alone, we saw so many changes to our characters' personalities, Sun included...

but was she always so sweet?  What her story has told us through 4 seasons is that she's capable of a great many things, not all of them sweet==quite the contrary.  My point is that she's always been capable of dark things, including when she was a child.  The apple doesn't fall far from the tree, my Lostie friend ;)

see you in another life, brothah
cheers
*Des8



Well, if you consider lying a dark side trait then we all are evil. :D  Not debating this as the point is simply this, Sun has had strong parents who have made her dress, date, and act certain ways. Part of the culture?  Part of the financial status which result in her wanting to rebel.

She found the man she loved with Jin on this island again, it gave them a child she wasn't suppose to have.  Then all that was taken away.  Her vengance/revenge or whatever you want to call it is what was written.  They do this to make the show move forward. 

Yes, she has targets, Jack, her father and it appears Widmore maybe the other. 

Whatever the writers write is what Sun will be. 

PS, killing Colleen was killing in self defense....
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: opgelost on June 02, 2008, 09:28:40 AM
If the 2nd was Jack why is she visiting Widmore?
She is in her fathers company now and can send someone to deliver a present
and keep her hands clean.
I think she spoke with Penny in the week on Penny's boat and learned some new things
about mr. Paik and Widmore.
But I have no idea if she is after Ben and needs Widmore's help or if she is after Widmore
and cons him.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: BobBX542 on June 02, 2008, 03:29:18 PM
PS, killing Colleen was killing in self defense....

Really?? How do you figure??
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: JBRam on June 02, 2008, 03:35:36 PM
PS, killing Colleen was killing in self defense....

Really?? How do you figure??
Sun was scared that the Others were going to kill her, so she shot Colleen. Sure, Colleen was unarmed and Sun had no real right to shoot, but it was basically in self-defense.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on June 02, 2008, 03:43:53 PM
Visiting widmore as part of Ben's plan to get them back to the island.
IMO Ben tells Sun that Jin is alive, but to get Jin back she must get Widmore to go along with Ben's plan. No one has mentioned this but I beleive that Widmore will be part of the group that Ben talks about needing to go back to the island.
Sun is full of hate and it is directed at Jack due to not turning the choper around to look for Jin.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: BobBX542 on June 02, 2008, 04:03:56 PM
PS, killing Colleen was killing in self defense....

Really?? How do you figure??
Sun was scared that the Others were going to kill her, so she shot Colleen. Sure, Colleen was unarmed and Sun had no real right to shoot, but it was basically in self-defense.

Meh, not really buying it. But I'm not thinking that Sun is a bad guy either.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: *MaZ* on June 02, 2008, 05:22:28 PM
Sun isn't a sweetheart. Her flashbacks portray her differently. And the flash forward seems to suggest her mean streak has taken over.

In the other hand, Jack never finished the sentence as to WHY/WHAT FOR Sun blames him...maybe the blame has to do with the big lie, not with Jin's death.
She's a smart girl, obviously her dad and Widmore - and even Ben - are more to blame for Jin's death than Jack.
BTW, Jin IS dead.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on June 02, 2008, 05:32:31 PM
Does Sun not say that she blames Jack on the coper for not going to look for Jin and her father ultamitely for how he felt about Jin?
I thought that Sun says this to Jack while on the choper.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: *MaZ* on June 02, 2008, 05:36:03 PM
I don't think so. All she screams about in the chopper is going back for Jin, and many of them (Lapidus, Sayid) - not just Jack, tell her it's over, he's gone. I saw the finale 2X and she never directed any accusations to Jack.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: MangoBingo on June 02, 2008, 06:29:21 PM
Sun's going to double-cross Widmore. She's probably working for Ben too!

Question: If you wanted to find the Island again, whom would you choose?

a) The wealthy mysterious man responsible for your husband being blown up;

b) His wealthy mysterious daughter, whom rescued you and allowed you a week to recuperate, prior to the resultant media circus;

c) None of the above because they are a strange family and although the daughter seems "nice", the apple never falls far from the tree.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on June 02, 2008, 07:01:06 PM
Here's our shared thought-
Sun is working for Ben Linus
This is Ben's plan on when telling Jack, "I can get them to go." (i.e. Jack, Kate, Hugo, Sayid, Sun, and Locke's body)
All Ben needs is Widmore to join in and help find the island or return to the island.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: zhephree on June 02, 2008, 07:21:25 PM
Really doubt Jack is the #2. Remember a few episodes back when everyone was at Christian's memorial service? Wasn't Sun there? Why would she attend Jack's dad's memorial service if she hated Jack so much?
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: MangoBingo on June 02, 2008, 07:23:10 PM
Really doubt Jack is the #2. Remember a few episodes back when everyone was at Christian's memorial service? Wasn't Sun there? Why would she attend Jack's dad's memorial service if she hated Jack so much?

Hi zheephree.

No. Sun was notably absent.

She wasn't at Hurley's party either.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LostAndSeek on June 02, 2008, 07:32:02 PM
Welcome, zhee!

What Mango said.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LostinAlaska on June 02, 2008, 11:22:29 PM
PS, killing Colleen was killing in self defense....

Really?? How do you figure??
Sun was scared that the Others were going to kill her, so she shot Colleen. Sure, Colleen was unarmed and Sun had no real right to shoot, but it was basically in self-defense.

Meh, not really buying it. But I'm not thinking that Sun is a bad guy either.

Really doubt Jack is the #2. Remember a few episodes back when everyone was at Christian's memorial service? Wasn't Sun there? Why would she attend Jack's dad's memorial service if she hated Jack so much?

FINALLY some people I agree with! The Son has risen!
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: BobBX542 on June 03, 2008, 09:32:43 AM
I'm also in the camp that thinks she is going to set up Widmore for some kind of fall, and the "dark" Sun might just be a way to further push the con.
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: versed4every1 on June 03, 2008, 12:47:01 PM
First off, to keep on topic, let me address my comments to Sun:  In "The Glass Ballerina" we see that Sun has absolutely no problem in lying to her father about who broke the glass ballerina--she threw the maid under the bus knowing full well that her father would fire the maid.  Next we see Sun's lover hit the hood of a car clutching the pearls he bought for Sun.  Jin first visited the guy at her father's request, but I have ALWAYS believed it was Sun who threw her lover out the window after she followed Jin to find out to whom he was going to "deliver a message," despite what Lindelof/Cuse say.  They would not have shown her ability to be so ruthless, had they not intended for the audience to even consider that it was  Sun who threw her boyfriend out of a window.

We've also seen Sun be relentless in dealing with Jin's mother.  Sun also shot and killed one of TheOthers (can't remember her name) at point blank range and didn't even blink twice about having done so.  She has not JUST now gone over to the dark side, she's been tip toing on the brink for a very, very long time.

That was just the beginning--I can't wait to see what deliciously nasty things she'll do now that she's back.

BTW, I don't believe Jin is dead.  I think when Ben moved the Island, he moved the Island in time--to a previous time, therein before the Mercs' infiltration.  That's why the Socks'll never win the Series ;)  thoughts?

sunny cheers
*Des8

Amen and Amen!

Sun was identified in the Glass Ballerina as something much more than meets the eye.  She is ruthless! 

Nice to see you Des!
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LouE68 on June 22, 2008, 02:16:24 AM
Not to change subject, but on the same train of thought...Sun mentioned to Michael, that she was pregnant. That whole scene seems odd...everyone remember the mobisode, the Sun ad Michael moment...could it be Michaels baby?
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: laklost on June 22, 2008, 07:06:59 PM
Anything's possible - but do you really think they'd go there on the show?  Hmmmm...
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: LouE68 on June 22, 2008, 08:59:32 PM
Anything's possible - but do you really think they'd go there on the show?  Hmmmm...
That's the whole thing, we dont know where they are going with this show LOL
Title: Re: Sun went over to the dark side
Post by: MangoBingo on January 23, 2009, 07:56:40 PM
I'm also in the camp that thinks she is going to set up Widmore for some kind of fall, and the "dark" Sun might just be a way to further push the con.

She really doesn't seem scared of Widmore.