Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 4 => Episode 4x13 => Topic started by: quick127 on May 30, 2008, 12:18:58 AM

Title: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on May 30, 2008, 12:18:58 AM
Keeping it short, because I'm sure the forums are going to be flooded tonight.

Anyway.

Locke would never willingly leave the island.  It is the solution to all his woes, it has brought out the inner-suvivalist in him.  He is accepted, followed, and leads there.

So why would he leave?

Who else was fond of the island?  Ben.  Ben (excluding the clear hiccups) was accepted, followed, and led on the island.  Why did he leave?  Because he had to.  In order to preserve the island - he had to move it.


So, my guess is we'll find out that Widmore got his hooks into the island again - found it.  Sought it.  And Locke was forced to leave, in order to save the island he loves, and all the people there.

He had to move the island again.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on May 30, 2008, 12:20:25 AM
He told Jack bad things had happened since he left and that it was Jack's fault...he left the island to come get them to come back. IMO
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LouE68 on May 30, 2008, 12:23:26 AM
He told Jack bad things had happened since he left and that it was Jack's fault...he left the island to come get them to come back. IMO
Yup simple and sweet...
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on May 30, 2008, 12:24:22 AM
Ben said that if you move the island you cant go back.  Then Ben tells Jack that Locke has to go back too.  So I dont think Locke moved the island again. 

I think he will be dead until they get back to the island and then he will live again.  He dies to get them to come back and then arises again when he is there.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on May 30, 2008, 12:25:46 AM
He told Jack bad things had happened since he left and that it was Jack's fault...he left the island to come get them to come back. IMO
Yup simple and sweet...
Sometimes I say smart things....sometimes ;)
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on May 30, 2008, 12:35:14 AM
Maybe - but Ben also seemed to indicate that he'd be joining them in their quest back to the island.

How would Locke have gotten off of the island?  Unless they have more surprise vehicles to transport themselves off.

Bad things start happening - but you guys know John Locke, he would have waited as long as possible before admitting that he wasn't in control of the situation.  I don't see him willingly leaving that island unless it was absolutely necessary.

Besides - even if it was moved again - there's no telling if Ben knew any of the new locations.  His "ideas" for getting them back probably involve finding the location first - and not merely methods to get them there.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Point Place WI on May 30, 2008, 12:35:47 AM
Ben said he could leave and Richard and Company agreed.  So, obviously Jacob disagreed.  Well Jack never met Jacob and also never accepted the fact that the island was this magical place.  Much like myself.  So, even if off island Jeremy/Locke told him it was his fault.  How the hell would Jack know?  He is a man of Science baby deal with it. 
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: FoxyMama on May 30, 2008, 12:38:00 AM
I don't think Ben indicated that he would be going back with them.  He was more specific - you, all of you have to go back. 
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on May 30, 2008, 12:38:11 AM
Ben said he could leave and Richard and Company agreed.  So, obviously Jacob disagreed.  Well Jack never met Jacob and also never accepted the fact that the island was this magical place.  Much like myself.  So, even if off island Jeremy/Locke told him it was his fault.  How the hell would Jack know?  He is a man of Science baby deal with it. 
A man of science who keeps seeing his dead daddy everywhere. That poor boy's head is spinning right now, and he is not thinking about science :P
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: roland10488 on May 30, 2008, 12:39:04 AM
I don't want to sound like a debbie downer as far as the "locke being revived" theory goes (because i'm a diehard locke fan too!), but his body is full of embalming fluids and stuff...that would kind of suck to be brought back to life to... :-\
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Cuppajoey on May 30, 2008, 12:45:13 AM
How would Locke have gotten off of the island?  Unless they have more surprise vehicles to transport themselves off.
But remember that Ben and the others could come and go as they wished, so maybe Locke (I just can't call him Jeremy!) has been making trips off the island to get the Oceanic 6 to come back?
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Hippoeki on May 30, 2008, 12:48:57 AM
The Others came and went as they wished with the sub which went boom.

However, and maybe I'm remembering this wrong, isn't Desmond's boat still on the Island?
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: FoxyMama on May 30, 2008, 12:50:12 AM
But what "bad things" could have happened?  A revolt?  Richard and the others convince him to gas the new people, like he did with Ben?  ???  Arggghhh - Too many questions!  :P
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LouE68 on May 30, 2008, 12:51:27 AM
I don't think Ben indicated that he would be going back with them.  He was more specific - you, all of you have to go back. 
I agree, I didnt read anything into what Ben said as he would be joining them....
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on May 30, 2008, 12:52:43 AM
They came and went only a couple ways that I'm aware of.
By submarine - which Locke blew up
By boat - which Michael took.

Even if Ben isn't indicating that he can come back with them, and even if Ben did say he couldn't return - how many times has Ben lied right to John Locke's face in order to maintain some sort of upper-hand in their relationship.

How many times has he lied to other people to maintain his upper-hand?


And yeah - I sort of doubt a freshly embalmed Locke will be coming back to life - but who knows?  He couldn't walk before he went there...


Another idea, probably for another thread: cloning?  In the comic-con version of the Orchid Orientation video - there were 2 identical bunnies.  Patchy came back from a few things that should have meant death (shooting pints of blood from the ears, taking a harpoon to the chest...).  Perhaps Locke isn't the only Lock there is.

Just an idea.  A crazy one.  But an idea nonetheless.  Could explain the seemingly ageless Richard Alpert, too.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LouE68 on May 30, 2008, 12:54:05 AM
They came and went only a couple ways that I'm aware of.
By submarine - which Locke blew up
By boat - which Michael took.

Even if Ben isn't indicating that he can't come back with them, and even if Ben did say he couldn't return - how many times has Ben lied right to John Locke's face in order to maintain some sort of upper-hand in their relationship.

How many times has he lied to other people to maintain his upper-hand?


And yeah - I sort of doubt a freshly embalmed Locke will be coming back to life - but who knows?  He couldn't walk before he went there...
Looks like they may have Season 7:Zombie season after all

Another idea, probably for another forum: cloning?  In the comic-con version of the Orchid Orientation video - there were 2 identical bunnies.  Patchy came back from a few things that should have meant death (shooting pints of blood from the ears, taking a harpoon to the chest...).  Perhaps Locke isn't the only Lock there is.

Just an idea.  A crazy one.  But an idea nonetheless.  Could explain the seemingly ageless Richard Alpert, too.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Hippoeki on May 30, 2008, 12:57:19 AM
I don't think the Orchid video showed cloning, it showed exactly what they said it showed: experiments in space and time. There were two identical bunnies because one got sent into the past or future and ended up in close proximity to itself. Haliwax freaks out because contact between them would cause a paradox much like Ron Silver in Time Cop.

Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: FoxyMama on May 30, 2008, 12:58:48 AM
Quote
They came and went only a couple ways that I'm aware of.
By submarine - which Locke blew up
By boat - which Michael took.

Don't forget - Ben was coming and going off the island before all this - passports, suits, money, etc.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on May 30, 2008, 01:05:59 AM
You're correct.  I don't necessarily buy into the cloning idea, either - and I understand (sort of) how time travel and paradoxes and the such work.

Read www.BobandGeorge.com if you get bored - it toys with these ideas a lot.

That being said.  Locke could have sent himself back well after the O6 got there to get them to go in the first place.  Time paradox, for sure - but would you put it past this show?  Jumping even further off the point - a time paradox could cause the problems on the island, thus changing the memories that John Locke has - making him believe they need to go back.

Time travel's FUN, isn't it?



As to Ben's passports and the such - we don't know that he has another way off the island.  He certainly hasn't left since these modes of transportation started disappearing.  Those passports may have been used when he left via boat or sub.

Yes, he was coming and going before all of this - but that could still be with the sub.  After all - that Sub's been around for a very long time.  At least as long as Juliet has been there, and given its state, probably since the inception of the Dharma Initiative.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: FoxyMama on May 30, 2008, 01:07:58 AM
But aren't we assuming that Juliet arrived via the sub?  We don't really know that, and frankly neither does she.  Could have been a hoax to make her think she arrived on the sub.  :)
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: tonysee200x on May 30, 2008, 01:13:13 AM
Was the sub still around when Tom/Mr Friendly went off island to recruit Michael? (this was discussed, but I don't remember the answer)
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LouE68 on May 30, 2008, 01:13:31 AM
yes
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on May 30, 2008, 01:38:17 AM
Even if it was a hoax for Juliet - the point is that the Sub has been around for a while - it could very well be how Ben was doing his extra-curricular activities.

But I severely doubt that it was a hoax.  She fell asleep on a sub, she woke up on a sub.

I don't think they'd have a big boat, or any visible vessel for that matter, going to and from the island with a fair amount of regularity - that would tip Widmore off to their location.

Which is another reason I doubt Locke could have used any other means to leave the island.  They moved it in the first place to dodge Widmore, and I don't see Locke putting that at risk.  And if they were already found - I don't see him leaving by any other means than one which could prolong their safety.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Optimus J on May 30, 2008, 01:39:46 AM
She didn't fell asleep in a big building?
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on May 30, 2008, 01:41:55 AM
Thought they gave her the drugs in the sub, I'm sketchy on details that far back.  Only own the first season.

Even if I'm wrong - it doesn't change my point.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Optimus J on May 30, 2008, 01:45:24 AM
Nope, she drunk the orange juice too fast while Ethan and Richard were doing exams on her, in that big building full with security, where Rachel left her. Although there is no reason to doubt she came in the galaga, there is no reason to believe it too.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LouE68 on May 30, 2008, 01:51:42 AM
Nope, she drunk the orange juice too fast while Ethan and Richard were doing exams on her, in that big building full with security, where Rachel left her. Although there is no reason to doubt she came in the galaga, there is no reason to believe it too.
near the airport...they had their own airport too..LOL
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Maxor127 on May 30, 2008, 01:54:41 AM
I was thinking the same thing.  Maybe they'll go back to the island, but Locke will be alive because at that point in time, he hadn't left the island yet.  I'm not a fan of the time travel stuff, but I don't think Locke is gone for good.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LouE68 on May 30, 2008, 01:58:03 AM
On  funnier note....what was Locke thinking just before he met his demise...."this isnt supposed to be happening!" LOL
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Blitz Wing on May 30, 2008, 04:26:00 AM
Didn't Said kill Locke? Said he made it look like a suicide to Hurley? Ben asked Jack when the last time he saw Said?

Perhaps Said working for Ben went Rogue on Ben and decided to kill Locke for some reason?
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: kenny on May 30, 2008, 08:55:20 AM
Did Locke have to leave the island because he was forced to "move it" because bad things were happening?  Like Ben moving the island and having to leave
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: BobBX542 on May 30, 2008, 10:54:17 AM
Didn't Said kill Locke? Said he made it look like a suicide to Hurley? Ben asked Jack when the last time he saw Said?

Perhaps Said working for Ben went Rogue on Ben and decided to kill Locke for some reason?


No, Sayid was telling Hurley about the Bentham guy being dead, and how "they" made it look like a suicide.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on May 30, 2008, 11:43:41 AM
Yeah.  I don't think Sayid would kill Locke.  not matter how much he's changed in Ben's employ - I don't see him going rogue on the one guy who, up to this point, has stood in staunch opposition to Widmore.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Suzanne4au2 on May 30, 2008, 11:57:57 AM
Question- Assume that John Locke left the island to tell the 06 they need to return to the island to set things right.-okay now my question is since Walt was on the flight originally, do you think he will need to return as well? (I want Walt to come back)
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on May 30, 2008, 12:18:49 PM
I was thinking about that last night.  If Locke has to return with them, then it isn't just applied to the O6.  But does that mean all the survivors of 815 have to go back?  Then they'll need Walt as well.

Or, does it mean anyone who escaped?  They'll need Walt, Desmond, Frank.

I suppose we'll find out.  But Ben can't suggest Locke without at least also suggesting Walt.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on May 30, 2008, 12:25:16 PM
Reason leaving to "move" the island from all the bad things that started to happen there after they left.
I fear Richard is more "evil" than good and is using "special" kids for bad things. JACOB is traped by Richard.
JACOB is actually John/Arron/Christian/?/Ben spirits of the "special" chosen by Richard.
Wild theory running loose
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Lost_viewer on May 30, 2008, 01:20:38 PM
They came and went only a couple ways that I'm aware of.
By submarine - which Locke blew up
By boat - which Michael took.

Even if Ben isn't indicating that he can come back with them, and even if Ben did say he couldn't return - how many times has Ben lied right to John Locke's face in order to maintain some sort of upper-hand in their relationship.

How many times has he lied to other people to maintain his upper-hand?


And yeah - I sort of doubt a freshly embalmed Locke will be coming back to life - but who knows?  He couldn't walk before he went there...


Another idea, probably for another thread: cloning?  In the comic-con version of the Orchid Orientation video - there were 2 identical bunnies.  Patchy came back from a few things that should have meant death (shooting pints of blood from the ears, taking a harpoon to the chest...).  Perhaps Locke isn't the only Lock there is.

Just an idea.  A crazy one.  But an idea nonetheless.  Could explain the seemingly ageless Richard Alpert, too.

Call me crazy but I think Faraday will fix the Orchid station and be able to transport people thru space/time off the island, maybe Jeremy Betham is an Others' alias for John Locke, or better yet maybe jeremy Betham is john Lockes time traveling clone or something like that.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Gutterball94 on May 30, 2008, 01:32:46 PM
How would Locke have gotten off of the island?  Unless they have more surprise vehicles to transport themselves off.

If some others (i.e. Ben, Tom) could leave the island, why not Locke too?
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on May 30, 2008, 02:24:24 PM
Yes - but during the time that Ben and Tom were leaving the island, they still had a sub to get to and from the island.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Hurley rocks dudes on May 30, 2008, 02:27:55 PM
They came and went only a couple ways that I'm aware of.
By submarine - which Locke blew up
By boat - which Michael took.

Even if Ben isn't indicating that he can come back with them, and even if Ben did say he couldn't return - how many times has Ben lied right to John Locke's face in order to maintain some sort of upper-hand in their relationship.

How many times has he lied to other people to maintain his upper-hand?


And yeah - I sort of doubt a freshly embalmed Locke will be coming back to life - but who knows?  He couldn't walk before he went there...


Another idea, probably for another thread: cloning?  In the comic-con version of the Orchid Orientation video - there were 2 identical bunnies.  Patchy came back from a few things that should have meant death (shooting pints of blood from the ears, taking a harpoon to the chest...).  Perhaps Locke isn't the only Lock there is.

Just an idea.  A crazy one.  But an idea nonetheless.  Could explain the seemingly ageless Richard Alpert, too.

Call me crazy but I think Faraday will fix the Orchid station and be able to transport people thru space/time off the island, maybe Jeremy Betham is an Others' alias for John Locke, or better yet maybe jeremy Betham is john Lockes time traveling clone or something like that.
but faraday didn't make it back to the island. it vanished while he was still ferrying people with the zodiac boat.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on May 30, 2008, 04:08:46 PM
Other threads speculate (and I tend to agree) that Faraday and his raft were close enough to the island that they went with it.  Given that the Looking Glass was in the ocean - it suggests that at least SOME of area surrounding the island must go with it.

But I don't know that Faraday will fix the station.  Anyone could still manipulate that energy, though - there has to be another entrance to the donkey wheel, or there wouldn't have been ladders down there already.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: BobBX542 on May 30, 2008, 04:48:32 PM
Yes - but during the time that Ben and Tom were leaving the island, they still had a sub to get to and from the island.

But who is really to say that they (specifically Tom) was using any conventional means to get off the island?? I was actually against the teleportation/time travel thing, but I guess I can't argue it now, so I might as well start trying to make it make sense.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: zeekloveslost on May 30, 2008, 05:07:14 PM
I was thinking about that last night.  If Locke has to return with them, then it isn't just applied to the O6.  But does that mean all the survivors of 815 have to go back?  Then they'll need Walt as well.

Or, does it mean anyone who escaped?  They'll need Walt, Desmond, Frank.

I suppose we'll find out.  But Ben can't suggest Locke without at least also suggesting Walt.

When Walt and his grandmother went to see Hurley, Walt told Hurley that Jeremy Bentham came to see him. Didn't he?
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 30, 2008, 06:51:20 PM
Right. It looks like the Island has told Locke that at least all the 815ers need to go back and he's trying to make that happen. And I agree that'll probably include Walt. How Locke gets off the Island is another question entirely, but as already suggested, I wouldn't be surprised if Faraday rubs two batteries together and makes it happen.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: sonofsuns34 on May 30, 2008, 08:14:55 PM
Do we know for sure that ben has been totally banished from the island?

When Charles tells him he looks like he got some color (the bedroom scene) doesnt Ben reply "Your Rock is lovely this time of year" ?

they then go on to discuss the islands ownership...

I know Ben said he had to leave the island but he never said he couldnt make it back. Ben has lied to people before about things (that is an understatement) So i dont think he has not been on the island in the three years that elapse between the jump and lockes death.

Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 30, 2008, 08:20:39 PM
Welcome, Son!

It's true we only have Ben's word for this rule, but he actually told Widmore Iraq is lovely this time of year. Many of us think that was Ben's way of telling Widmore that he was responsible for the death of Widmore's agent there.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: col81 on May 30, 2008, 08:26:36 PM
Responding to the comments about John Locke being too dead to reanimate on the island, it did work with Christian Shepherd, although I don't think he was full of embalming fluid yet. Not to mention, it's still unclear what state Christian Shepherd, or any other presumably dead person walking around on the island's state is. On the other hand, John has a hard time staying dead, what with the early birth, diseases, falling out of a building, and being shot...
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: sonofsuns34 on May 30, 2008, 08:30:32 PM
Welcome, Son!

It's true we only have Ben's word for this rule, but he actually told Widmore Iraq is lovely this time of year. Many of us think that was Ben's way of telling Widmore that he was responsible for the death of Widmore's agent there.
Thanks, i have been lurking forver but needed to throw in my 2 cents...

ahhh yeah me and my brother said rock or iraq... ben is a sneaky snake though do you think he has been back to the island or does he need to go back with the o6 lapidus and desmond?
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 30, 2008, 08:37:20 PM
Not enough data to say if he's been back. I definitely think he'll go back!
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: lostandfree on May 30, 2008, 10:52:25 PM
I think Ben can still get back to the island as long as he can find it.  When he said he couldn't come back it was probably just because the island would be gone and he wouldn't be able to find it, at least not very easily.  If he manages to figure out where the island is he can probably get back to it.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: hatch4815162342 on May 31, 2008, 12:19:22 AM
anyone approve of the theory that aaron is a reincarnation of locke???
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 31, 2008, 09:06:23 AM
I don't think you can be reincarnated three years before you die....  ???

'Course there is that time travel thing going on. Maybe we're all of us reincarnations of Locke!  ;)
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on May 31, 2008, 03:05:38 PM
No one on that island has actually been reanimated, at least not in any sort of evident manner.  The only person you could make a case for is Patchy.

Christian was never reanimated - his appearances have been in the same vein as the horse, Walt, Eko's brother and the other seeming apparitions that only a few people have been privy to.

Given the staunch "Christian is Dead" statements of TPTB - there has to be an alternative explanation to these appearances.  Whether its Smokie, or what have you.  I mean - Locke just talked to a guy who said he'd been dead for 13 years, and appeared to be on a loop for what he was saying.

I think memories can be manifested on the island somehow.

We've yet to see evidence of a dead person physically returning to life.  Many of these "re-animated" people we've been exposed to have never themselves been physically interacted with.

The fact that Jacob can be seen one moment and not the next leads me to believe that he is either a manipulation by some unseen force, a true apparition, or some poor soul who experienced some side effects of Dharma experiments.

John Locke isn't going to get up when he returns to the island, unless he's not actually dead...

Which, given the manipulations that have been constant on this show... is he really dead?
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 31, 2008, 04:53:13 PM
It can't be a coincidence that both Christian's and Yemi's bodies have gone missing. Whatever's manifesting as them must need the bodies for something.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on May 31, 2008, 05:50:23 PM
If its machinery - as I suspect Smokie (my leading idea for the source of the 'ghosts') is - then it needs to do an imaging scan in order to project an accurate representation.

Yemi wasn't always decomposed.  Smokie, or whatever it is, could have the ability to create numerous people.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 31, 2008, 09:26:23 PM
It looks like Smokie does the scans. Yemi's body was decomposed and burned before it disappeared. I think Smokie got a picture of Yemi when it scanned Eko. Machinery? Why not? There's certainly a lot of it around.  ;)
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: BobBX542 on June 02, 2008, 12:59:03 PM
Do we know for sure that ben has been totally banished from the island?

I know Ben said he had to leave the island but he never said he couldnt make it back. Ben has lied to people before about things (that is an understatement) So i dont think he has not been on the island in the three years that elapse between the jump and lockes death.



According to what Ben said, whoever moves the island has to leave forever. I was going to quote it, but couldn't remember if 'forever' is accurate, but I really feel like that's what he said. anyone care to help a forgetful man??
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Shakey on June 02, 2008, 01:58:17 PM
If I remember correctly, he said "never return"... so, same thing.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: MangoBingo on June 02, 2008, 02:22:18 PM
It's highly possible that it was Locke from the future and present-day Locke is still alive on the Island.

It could have taken a decade for things to go bad under Locke's rule.

I know that dead-Locke looked much the same age as alive-Locke, but Richard doesn't appear to age either.

Ben might be up to something sneaky by telling Jack to take dead-Locke back to the Island... It's highly likely that Locke-from-the-future had no intention of going to the Island himself because meeting one's past or future self could cause a rift in time. Maybe dumping dead-Locke from the future on present-Locke's doorstep at Otherville would cause some kind of cosmic feedback, enabling Ben to return to the Island.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: MangoBingo on June 02, 2008, 02:35:04 PM
Ben said that if you move the island you cant go back.

Ben could have been lying again though!
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on June 02, 2008, 02:48:16 PM
Reason:
BAD THINGS HAPPENED ONCE THEY LEFT.

Can Ben return to the island?
Possibilities of getting back are better than slim to none according to some "theories" that Ben has.
To go back Ben tells Jack that it will take everyone including Locke's body. Ben does not say thou that this may include Frank, Des, and Walt.
Ever wonder this-
Christian Shepard to Locke - "You are to move the island"
Who moves the island thou, "BEN!"
Who dies from being the "Leader" of the OTHERS, Locke.
Did Ben know that Locke would die or even possible that Ben would have died himself if Locke would have moved the island.
Locke never did what he was suppose to do, "MOVE THE ISLAND"

Ben and the OC6 plus Locke's body will return to the island along with Widmore.
This will be the one person who will be needed in Ben's theory to get them back to the island. Widmore may have once been like Ben and he may have "moved" the island.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: BobBX542 on June 02, 2008, 03:49:06 PM
It could have taken a decade for things to go bad under Locke's rule.

No, because the flash forwards are only three years in the future. (Our present)
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: MangoBingo on June 02, 2008, 03:55:09 PM
It could have taken a decade for things to go bad under Locke's rule.

No, because the flash forwards are only three years in the future. (Our present)

A decade on the Island might not be a decade off the Island.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on June 02, 2008, 03:58:03 PM
The transporter may still be working and yes I agree on island time and real time still no being the same. There could be a difference of a decade to a hour. Ben and the OC6 returning to Locke's death was not a long period.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: JBRam on June 02, 2008, 04:05:44 PM
Ben said that if you move the island you cant go back.

Ben could have been lying again though!
Ben? Lie? You're joshin' me.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on June 02, 2008, 07:39:23 PM
Ben said that if you move the island you cant go back.

Ben could have been lying again though!
Ben? Lie? You're joshin' me.

Someone's going ol school. That's like 84.

Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: JBRam on June 02, 2008, 11:39:20 PM
Ben said that if you move the island you cant go back.

Ben could have been lying again though!
Ben? Lie? You're joshin' me.

Someone's going ol school. That's like 84.

Wow. That's older school than I am.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on June 03, 2008, 02:58:12 PM
Any thought that Christian like Locke left to warn anyone?
Christian like Locke may have been a choosen leader or possibly Christian may have been similar to one of the OC6.
Could have been Widmore, Mr. Piak and his wife, Christian, etc. as a OC6 previously?

Somewhere in there is a thought.   ???
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: BobBX542 on June 03, 2008, 03:00:02 PM
Any thought that Christian like Locke left to warn anyone?
Christian like Locke may have been a choosen leader or possibly Christian may have been similar to one of the OC6.
Could have been Widmore, Mr. Piak and his wife, Christian, etc. as a OC6 previously?

Somewhere in there is a thought.   ???

I like this, but Christian was a doctor before all of this, he wasn't on the island.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Mrs Hume on June 04, 2008, 03:39:51 PM
  I myself think Christian has been to the island when he was alive. (Maybe Jacob needed an operation too!)(That might be a reason to drink). He had a connection to the island or knew about it. I mean, When Jack went to look for his father he said all his belongings were in the hotel room. even his wallet. He was at the island possibly.

Oh and  lost-n-detroit I hear your point in there!  :) It is possible.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on June 04, 2008, 04:32:13 PM
I like this, but Christian was a doctor before all of this, he wasn't on the island.
[/quote]

yes a doctor but since when? Like he became a doctor again after he came back to the mainland like Jack?
Jack is off the island and is a doctor now. Same could be said for Christian. He's a doctor and crashes on the island and gets off the island to become a doctor again.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on June 04, 2008, 05:11:03 PM
I feel like if Christian had been on a plane that crashed on the island - there'd be some knowledge about the whole fact that HE HAD BEEN ON A PLANE THAT CRASHED.

Just sayin'.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on June 04, 2008, 05:15:28 PM
Not saying that Christian would be on a plane. In fact I'm not even saying a plane. There could have been other ways that he gets to the island.
Christian could have been recruited like Juliet by Richard.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: MangoBingo on June 04, 2008, 06:33:00 PM
Oh. I've just realised something.

The Island's still in communication with the outside world during Locke's reign.

He wouldn't leave the Island to visit the O6 unless he knew they were alive and knew roughly where to find them.

If the Island was completely shielded from the outside world, wouldn't the Others and remaining Losties assume that the O6 died on the freighter, or the helicopter ran out of fuel?

I'm guessing there's a second pod on the Island - maybe inside The Temple.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on June 04, 2008, 06:34:43 PM
The PLOT thickens......
so is my soup   ;D
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: opgelost on June 05, 2008, 07:01:02 AM
Quote
He wouldn't leave the Island to visit the O6 unless he knew they were alive and knew roughly where to find them.

If the Island was completely shielded from the outside world, wouldn't the Others and remaining Losties assume that the O6 died on the freighter, or the helicopter ran out of fuel?

Jacob is still there. He seems to know where to find Hurley (Charly) and Jack (Christian). He knows how to cure cancer and who is on the freighter. You don't just go to visit him, he calls you.
He is the one playing chess and deciding the next move. The others did what Ben told them to do, because he was the only one who could hear Jacob. Now Locke is the one communicating with Jacob. Locke asked Jacob what to do and he said the next step was to move the island. If Jacob told Locke to leave the island and get the 6 back, he will do that. He is finished yelling "don't tell me what I can't do". He just does what Jacob tells him to do or not to do.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: BobBX542 on June 05, 2008, 09:40:39 AM
The problem with Christian being on the island before all of this is that no one, not even his mother made a mention of "that time your father went missing for so long".
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on June 05, 2008, 11:29:23 AM
Though it could have been well before he met and married his wife.

Also - I'm not entirely convinced that every "ghost" we see is necessarily some sort of representation of Jacob.  I think, like Miles, Hurley has an ability to communicate with the dead.  I think Dave was once a real person, just as Charlie was.

I think Hurley does not yet realize that this is a gift he has because it started when he was in a mental institution.  He entered Santa Rosa because of the numbers and his bad luck.  He met Dave there.  Patients in mental institutions don't tend to BEGIN manifesting delusions and hallucinations once they have been put on their drugs.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on June 05, 2008, 12:26:16 PM
Think Dave "if" Hurley is seeing dead people like Miles possibly died at Santa Rosa as a patient?
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: quick127 on June 05, 2008, 12:43:08 PM
Maybe, but not necessarily.  I can't remember back to the Dave episode - bit I feel like if the name had been on record, the staff would've made some mention of that.

But then, who's to say these 'ghosts' have to be honest with the people who can communicate with them?
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: opgelost on June 05, 2008, 02:07:56 PM
Quote
I think Hurley does not yet realize that this is a gift he has because it started when he was in a mental institution.  He entered Santa Rosa because of the numbers and his bad luck.  He met Dave there.  Patients in mental institutions don't tend to BEGIN manifesting delusions and hallucinations once they have been put on their drugs.

He entered Santa Rosa, because he was depressed after an accident where some people died. He learned the numbers from Leonard there and played them in the lotery later. Then he went to Australia to meet the man, who had more info about the numbers. He got medication after he started seeing Dave. Later on the island he saw Dave again.

I think Miles can communicate with the dead when the souls are still with the body, like Naomi and Rousseau or when the spirits stay in one place and don't want to leave, like in the house of the boy. When Sayid wanted to bring Naomi to the freighter Miles said that wasn't Naomi, just meat.
Hurley talks to Charlie, Eko and Dave in places where their spirits are not. That's why I think it is something different.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LostAndSeek on June 05, 2008, 04:34:54 PM
Well thought and well spoken, Opge!
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: JBRam on June 05, 2008, 07:26:24 PM
Maybe, but not necessarily.  I can't remember back to the Dave episode - bit I feel like if the name had been on record, the staff would've made some mention of that.

But then, who's to say these 'ghosts' have to be honest with the people who can communicate with them?
Dave was part of Hurley's consciousness. He only had bad advice for Hurley. Most likely not a benevolent dead guy like Charlie.
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: MangoBingo on November 20, 2008, 05:00:59 PM
It's highly possible that it was Locke from the future and present-day Locke is still alive on the Island.

It could have taken a decade for things to go bad under Locke's rule.

I know that dead-Locke looked much the same age as alive-Locke, but Richard doesn't appear to age either.

Ben might be up to something sneaky by telling Jack to take dead-Locke back to the Island... It's highly likely that Locke-from-the-future had no intention of going to the Island himself because meeting one's past or future self could cause a rift in time. Maybe dumping dead-Locke from the future on present-Locke's doorstep at Otherville would cause some kind of cosmic feedback, enabling Ben to return to the Island.

Now this is interesting...

There's an official Lost fan Wiki which I only stumbled across today...

http://www.losttvfans.com

It's definitely official: http://www.wetpaintcentral.com/page/October+2006

Quote
Wetpaint Site of the Month

Lost is the hottest show on TV, and those scruffy, yet still well-dressed castaways are using Wetpaint to host ABC.com's official Lost wiki. Join other fans to discuss each new episode, keep tabs on the evolving theories, write your own original Lost haiku, and much more!

On the Wiki's "Characters" page, Locke is listed in the category of Alive and on the Island - albeit with an asterisk next to his name, denoting Dead in the future...

http://www.losttvfans.com/page/Characters

Looks like I was right. Again. lol

 :)
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: BobBX542 on November 26, 2008, 12:39:16 PM
It's highly possible that it was Locke from the future and present-day Locke is still alive on the Island.

It could have taken a decade for things to go bad under Locke's rule.

I know that dead-Locke looked much the same age as alive-Locke, but Richard doesn't appear to age either.

Ben might be up to something sneaky by telling Jack to take dead-Locke back to the Island... It's highly likely that Locke-from-the-future had no intention of going to the Island himself because meeting one's past or future self could cause a rift in time. Maybe dumping dead-Locke from the future on present-Locke's doorstep at Otherville would cause some kind of cosmic feedback, enabling Ben to return to the Island.

Now this is interesting...

There's an official Lost fan Wiki which I only stumbled across today...

http://www.losttvfans.com

It's definitely official: http://www.wetpaintcentral.com/page/October+2006

Quote
Wetpaint Site of the Month

Lost is the hottest show on TV, and those scruffy, yet still well-dressed castaways are using Wetpaint to host ABC.com's official Lost wiki. Join other fans to discuss each new episode, keep tabs on the evolving theories, write your own original Lost haiku, and much more!

On the Wiki's "Characters" page, Locke is listed in the category of Alive and on the Island - albeit with an asterisk next to his name, denoting Dead in the future...

http://www.losttvfans.com/page/Characters

Looks like I was right. Again. lol

 :)

I have to read the wiki article to comment further, but just looking at what is before me, isn't it a safe bet to say that technically, everyone is dead in the future??
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LostAndSeek on November 26, 2008, 04:31:55 PM
Also, just looking at what's before me and if we just take what we've seen on the show at face value....

Locke is alive and living on the Island in the 2004-5 time frame, but dead in the 2008-9 time frame. I'm not entirely sure any more which of these should be called the present.

 
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: LostinLock on November 26, 2008, 05:02:06 PM
Okay Locke hits the mainland and is dead.  but when he goes back to the island he is alive!
Mmmmm something to ponder. 

I think I have come to the conclusion that some characters must die on order for this to move to the next level and I keep thinking of what Richard told Locke when he gave him Sawyers dossier.

he told him to figure out what his purpose was.  I mean if Locke as a child could never pick the right thing for Richard then what makes us think that he will do the right thing when given the opportunity to do it now that he is on the island?

So if he makes the wrong choice then voila, he is killed. Could that be what happened to Christian too?

I mean it appears he left because he had to convince them to come back and then it appears there were forces attempting to stop them from coming back.

Hmmm
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: T Mack on December 28, 2008, 12:44:59 AM
Quote
I was actually against the teleportation/time travel thing, but I guess I can't argue it now, so I might as well start trying to make it make sense.
Ahh, it's so much fun to be right!
Title: Re: Locke's reason for leaving the island...
Post by: BobBX542 on December 30, 2008, 01:42:24 PM
Quote
I was actually against the teleportation/time travel thing, but I guess I can't argue it now, so I might as well start trying to make it make sense.
Ahh, it's so much fun to be right!

Isn't validation the best??