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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 4 => Episode 4x09 => Topic started by: MangoBingo on April 25, 2008, 09:59:04 PM

Title: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on April 25, 2008, 09:59:04 PM
Charles' remark to Ben of "I see you've been getting more sun" is a little odd, considering that the man lives on a tropical island!  ???

Taking this remark into consideration, along with with Ben's parka, would it be so wacky to consider that the island moves to an arctic location in the future?

If my sworn enemy sauntered into my bedroom as I slept, the hue of their complexion wouldn't be high on my list of things to say.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on April 25, 2008, 10:01:11 PM
p.s. The island must be able to move location, as why would Widmore be unable to find it, after already locating it once before?
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostAndSeek on April 25, 2008, 10:07:33 PM
I suggested this possibility a long time ago, but I didn't really believe it then. But it was about the only way I could think of for the Nigerian plane to end up on the Island.

OTOH, now that teleportation has been all but confirmed, maybe the plane was just flying over a particular spot in Tunisia at an inopportune moment....
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on April 25, 2008, 10:16:23 PM
I suggested this possibility a long time ago, but I didn't really believe it then. But it was about the only way I could think of for the Nigerian plane to end up on the Island.

OTOH, now that teleportation has been all but confirmed, maybe the plane was just flying over a particular spot in Tunisia at an inopportune moment....

I honestly now think that the island has the ability to physically reposition itself. If the island's electro-magnetic fields flagged it up to Penelope's searching, what better way to cloak it, than to relocate to a greater source of magnetism: the North Pole.

Maybe this repositioning is a regular occurence, like a bird's migration?
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on April 25, 2008, 10:22:48 PM
I think it's quite a leap to explain tectonically how an entire large island might be moved from the tropics to the antarctic.  It's one thing to teleport a bear or a plane, another to teleport something millions or billions of times heavier.  And kinda hard to do it & avoid detection from the resulting tsunamis created, earthquakes, and shift in the rotation of the earth from the sudden movement of so much mass.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostinLock on April 25, 2008, 10:28:50 PM
Widmores remark was sarcastic as Ben is a rather pasty looking dude.  And he was teleported into the desert so he would be getting a big more sun.

It was a glimpse into their relationship and how they treat each other.  One with contempt and sarcasm and the other with the holier than though attitude.

As for the island moving, it doesn't move. It is cloaked in something remember Daniel said the the air was different, how the things looked different.  

There could be another Dharma station that is cold and that is why he wore the jacket.  Or teleporting could be cold, I am speculating as I have never teleported.

Not buying the moving island....Again I buy into the island being able to cloak itself so it isn't invaded by the yahoo's that just go onto the island.

As for the Black Rock, the heroin plane, Danielle's boat, the sail boat, the balloonist etc...flight 815 they either stumbled on it or the island called them to it.

Oh yes one other thing they had the docks there for the submarine.  Why would a floating island have docks?  

Nice try and great thought.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on April 25, 2008, 10:44:32 PM
Widmores remark was sarcastic as Ben is a rather pasty looking dude.  And he was teleported into the desert so he would be getting a big more sun.

Widmore wasn't aware of Ben's arrival in Tunisia and subsequent trip to Tikrit. Widmore's agent Ismail asked Ben whom he was. Ben was tailing Widmore's agent - not the other way around. The agent was killed by Sayid before he reported Ben's presence back to Widmore.

It was a glimpse into their relationship and how they treat each other.  One with contempt and sarcasm and the other with the holier than though attitude.

If it was a sarcastic remark, it didn't come across as such. Ben wouldn't have needed to answer that he'd been in Iraq if he'd detected sarcasm in Widmore's voice.

As for the island moving, it doesn't move. It is cloaked in something remember Daniel said the the air was different, how the things looked different.

I don't see how the air being different infers that the island itself can't relocate.  

There could be another Dharma station that is cold and that is why he wore the jacket.  Or teleporting could be cold, I am speculating as I have never teleported.

I agree that there are possibly DHARMA stations dotted around the world in every conceivable climate.

As for the Black Rock, the heroin plane, Danielle's boat, the sail boat, the balloonist etc...flight 815 they either stumbled on it or the island called them to it.

Yes - whilst it was in its current position.

Oh yes one other thing they had the docks there for the submarine.  Why would a floating island have docks?

That's like asking "why would a boat have a gang-plank?"...  

Nice try and great thought.

I thought so too!
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostAndSeek on April 25, 2008, 10:45:35 PM
  Or teleporting could be cold, I am speculating as I have never teleported.


This is a great thought for explaining the parka. There are a lot of science fiction stories in which teleportation takes a bit of time and while you're between it's really cold. I don't know why I didn't think of it!

I agree the Island is cloaked, but if it doesn't move, what would keep Widmore from finding it again? Cloaked or not. Not saying I believe it moves, but it does help explain some things.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: jugdish on April 25, 2008, 10:54:35 PM
Widmores remark was sarcastic as Ben is a rather pasty looking dude.  And he was teleported into the desert so he would be getting a big more sun.

It was a glimpse into their relationship and how they treat each other.  One with contempt and sarcasm and the other with the holier than though attitude.

As for the island moving, it doesn't move. It is cloaked in something remember Daniel said the the air was different, how the things looked different.  

There could be another Dharma station that is cold and that is why he wore the jacket.  Or teleporting could be cold, I am speculating as I have never teleported.

Not buying the moving island....Again I buy into the island being able to cloak itself so it isn't invaded by the yahoo's that just go onto the island.

As for the Black Rock, the heroin plane, Danielle's boat, the sail boat, the balloonist etc...flight 815 they either stumbled on it or the island called them to it.

Oh yes one other thing they had the docks there for the submarine.  Why would a floating island have docks?  

Nice try and great thought.

I agree with this answer 100%
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Sunflower on April 25, 2008, 11:23:53 PM
Even if it is "cloaked" why wouldn't Widmore be able to find it AGAIN?  Wouldn't he still know the coordinates from the last time? 
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostinLock on April 25, 2008, 11:42:19 PM
Even if it is "cloaked" why wouldn't Widmore be able to find it AGAIN?  Wouldn't he still know the coordinates from the last time? 

Alwayslost if the island didn't want Widmore to find the location then he can't.  I just watched the last few minutes again and Widmore said "then the hunt will be on for the both of us".  I believe he meant Penny because Ben said she doesn't know where it is.

MangoBingo- As I just mentioned I just watched the repartee between Benjamin and Charles, very proper how they refer to each other.  When Charles said to him you have gotten some color lately, Ben stated  your rock is lovely this time of year. He never refereed to being in the middle east.  What I wrote was perhaps he got color while he was in the desert. Charles also referred to Ben's horrible eyes and he speaks down to him  He keeps calling him Benjamin and tells Ben he has the audacity of being the victim.

Watch that scene again, it was very powerful and gave us some viable and speculative information.  I could go on and on, but I had thought that these two are great adversaries.

It is also interesting that Ben can't kill Widmore. 

Jug- thanks  :)
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on April 26, 2008, 05:26:42 AM
MangoBingo- As I just mentioned I just watched the repartee between Benjamin and Charles, very proper how they refer to each other.  When Charles said to him you have gotten some color lately, Ben stated  your rock  is lovely this time of year.


I thought Ben said "Iraq is lovely this time of year."  Wasn't he just in Tikrit with Sayid?

Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: opgelost on April 26, 2008, 06:00:43 AM
Quote
Charles' remark to Ben of "I see you've been getting more sun" is a little odd, considering that the man lives on a tropical island!
And considering that it is dark and night and we only see shades.
It was sarcasm, cause he knows that Ben was in Iraqi.

Quote
Widmore wasn't aware of Ben's arrival in Tunisia and subsequent trip to Tikrit. Widmore's agent Ismail asked Ben whom he was. Ben was tailing Widmore's agent - not the other way around. The agent was killed by Sayid before he reported Ben's presence back to Widmore.
I think it was the other way round. Ben killed Nadia and Widmore's agent was tailing Ben.
Why would Widmore kill Nadia? To know from Sayid where the island is? Sayid doesn't know.
Ben's reason to kill Nadia could be to get Sayid to believe Widmore did it, so Sayid will kill Penny.
Ben said to Sayid: "Go away. Once you let your grieve become anger it will never go away. I speak of experience." I didn't like Ben's smile when Sayid didn't go away. Like his plan succeeded.

Quote
Watch that scene again, it was very powerful and gave us some viable and speculative information.  I could go on and on, but I had thought that these two are great adversaries.
Widmore called Ben "Boy", like he was his father or someone way older. Like there was another kind of relationship between them before.

Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Maxor127 on April 26, 2008, 06:43:55 AM
I thought Widmore calling Ben "Boy" was derogatory.  Reminded me of a slave owner calling a slave that.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on April 26, 2008, 07:45:22 AM
Just want to add my thoughts on the Widmore and Ben personalities -

Widmore, IMO, uses power, money and his reputation to get exactly what he wants. Widmore is the bully, he refers to Ben as 'boy' as a derogitory term, he wants Ben to feel in awe of him but unfortunatley for Widmore Ben seems to be more than a match for him.

As for Ben, IMO he uses bribery and reverse psycology to get what he wants. He knows what he wants and he manipulates people into thinking that they want the same thing by suggesting he wants them to do the opposite. Like with Locke, he made John think he didnt want him to blow the submarine up when all along he did. Similar with Sayid, made him think he wanted nothing to do with him when all along he knew by doing so Sayid would offer his services, also got Michael to kill for him using Walt and their freedom as the bribe etc.

Unfortunatley his tactics didnt work with Alex and she ended up dead - Widmore changed the rules, like a big game of chess, Alex was the pawn, the fight between good (white) and evil (black). Im still not sure which of them is good and which is evil - on the face of it they both seem to be bad, but Ben did take the Island (presumably by the purge) from Widmore so this would suggest Ben as the bad guy but we have also seen a glimpse of how Widmore operates, with Desmond, the fake plane etc and so he too is far from white. If we look deeper maybe Ben is the good guy, trying to protect the Island from the Evil that Widmore plans to do with it.
Widmore is a ruthless businessman and would no doubt use the Island to further his gains whereas Ben just wants the Island to stay hidden from the outside world and will do anything in his power to protect it.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on April 26, 2008, 08:23:17 AM
Ben killed Nadia and Widmore's agent was tailing Ben.
Why would Widmore kill Nadia? To know from Sayid where the island is? Sayid doesn't know.
Ben's reason to kill Nadia could be to get Sayid to believe Widmore did it, so Sayid will kill Penny.

I also think that Ben killed Nadia, but that Widmore's agent was in Tikrit to find out whom did it - not necessarily expecting to find Ben.

I think that the London scene was non-sequential. I've no reason to believe this, other than Ben's hairstyle being different. It's just intuition on my part. My timeline would be:

01. Ben-slightly-in-the-future makes a planned trip through time to kill Nadia;

02. Widmore deploys an agent to Iraq, to find Nadia's killer as they may be linked to the island he's attempting to locate again. Widmore doesn't expect Ben himself to be the killer;

03. Ben-slightly-in-the-future visits Widmore to taunt him;

04. Ben-slightly-in-the-future returns from whence he came;

05. Ben-a-lot-in-the-future appears in Tunisia. He has evidently left in a hurry as he is wounded and dressed inappropriately;

06. Ben-a-lot-in-the-future recruits Sayid

07. Ben-a-lot-in-the-future returns from whence he came;

08. Ben-a-lot-in-the-future survives an assasination attempt from Sayid that wounds his arm. Sayid wounds him whilst attempting to stop Ben travelling back in time.

Something like that.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: T Mack on April 26, 2008, 09:26:54 AM

[/quote]When Charles said to him you have gotten some color lately, Ben stated  your rock  is lovely this time of year. He never refereed to being in the middle east.  [/quote] :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Rock = Iraq.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostinLock on April 26, 2008, 09:38:33 AM
I am not quite so sure that Nadia was killed by either Ben or Charles.  Remember there are other things going on and again Ben could be providing circumstantial evidence, the picture of Bakir in LA, and using that to get to Sayid.

Bakir didn't appear to know how Widmore or Ben was.  He asked him why he was following him.  And if you recall when Sayid attacked Ben he asked him why they were following him.  Shock came to his face when he saw Ben.  

So......... Is is possible since Nadia had been a prisoner in Tikrit and Sayid had been in the Army that their own country men or other factions might be after them.

Ben once again manipulates situations to get Sayid to work for him.  Do we really know that Bakir worked for Charles Widmore?  Just because Ben said it doesn't mean it is true.

Additionally when Ben enters Charles room, it is apparent that Charles had not been updated on his whereabouts.  They didn't discuss the small matters of Sayid or being in Iraq or Tunisia.  Ben went there with a message and it was an eye for an eye.  Charles changed the rules, whatever they are and now Ben was telling him that he was going to do the same.

Yes, there is more to these two than meets the eyes, and it was interesting that Charles is having Nightmares....again.   What does that refer to?

Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostinLock on April 26, 2008, 09:39:55 AM

When Charles said to him you have gotten some color lately, Ben stated  your rock  is lovely this time of year. He never refereed to being in the middle east.  [/quote] :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Rock = Iraq.
[/quote]

There was no discussion about the middle east.... Rock = Island.... Widmore does not own the middle east and the conversation was about the island.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostAndSeek on April 26, 2008, 10:23:58 AM
No, it's Iraq. This is Ben's way of telling Charles that he (Ben) was responsible for Bakir's death.

And of course, the use of the word Boy is derogatory. Charles is an arrogant old bastard as we've seen time and again.

I doubt that Widmore killed Nadia because we just don't have a motive for that. I'm not sure if Ben did, but it's clear Ben used her death to manipulate Sayid.

Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Austruck on April 26, 2008, 07:05:34 PM
Sometimes a rock is a term used to describe an island. They are in England, which is an island. I was sure that was all he meant.

Also, I assumed Charles's remark about him getting more sun couldn't be entirely serious or based on Charles actually seeing more color on Ben's face. Ben was standing there bathed in moonlight -- and you can't see something like a tan in moonlight. (Plus, Ben didn't seem to have any more color to his face than he usually does.)

I assumed it was a droll way of saying, "I see you're getting out more."
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on April 26, 2008, 07:13:07 PM
Iraq vs. Your Rock.  I rewatched the scene, and tho its not definitively one or the other, I think we can deduce the only plausible answer.  Ben would want to rub it in that it was he who had taken out Widmore's man Ishmael in Tikrit.  Further, to say 'your rock', Ben would have to be tacitly in agreement with Widmore's contention that the island is his, when we know that Ben is diametrically opposed to that notion. Finally, it sounds more ironic, and more like something Ben would say, to imply that a hellhole in Iraq happens to be lovely; especially since we know that the island is lovely every season of the year.

That is why my vote is for Ben saying 'Iraq is lovely this time of year'.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostinLock on April 26, 2008, 07:32:07 PM
I had three other people watch the episode again....

Read the transcript here....http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/The_Shape_of_Things_to_Come_transcript

I listened again.... He did say Iraq....now I can move on ;)
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on April 26, 2008, 07:40:51 PM
Gladly.  Any theories, then, on why Widmore has been having nightmares lately?
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostinLock on April 26, 2008, 07:49:48 PM
Gladly.  Any theories, then, on why Widmore has been having nightmares lately?

I am sorry to say I am not sure what would keep that man up at night.  Perhaps the painting of the Black rock next to his bed or to much scotch. 

I reserve a space here to come back to this question when I have more information.  Right now I could blow a bunch of smoke out of my derriere, but that is not my style. ;)

Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on April 26, 2008, 07:55:06 PM
Aw, but wild speculation is so damned fun!  I think it's an homage to Howard Hughes - Widmore's been increasingly haunted by germs since '96, when he could not bring himself to touch the water faucet after washing his hand. As we all know, those bidding paddles at Sotheby's are absolutely filthy.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostAndSeek on April 26, 2008, 08:36:05 PM
Well, maybe, but he turned the faucet on all right....
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LouE68 on April 26, 2008, 08:39:24 PM
Gladly.  Any theories, then, on why Widmore has been having nightmares lately?
maybe he recieved the news of Alex death, knowing the shape of things to come, knowing he changed the rules of the game, knowing Ben would come after Pen...didnt he say something about he had been expecting him?
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on April 26, 2008, 09:05:29 PM
Well, maybe, but he turned the faucet on all right....

It's one thing to turn it one with your hand, as you're soon to wash away any germs picked up in doing so, but another to touch it afterwards with your just-sanitized hands.

maybe he recieved the news of Alex death, knowing the shape of things to come, knowing he changed the rules of the game, knowing Ben would come after Pen...didnt he say something about he had been expecting him?

Widmore wouldn't be upset to the point of nightmares by Alex's death, nor the as-expected continuation of his long-running conflict with Ben.  And in Widmore's mind, he didn't break any rules, as Ben himself had disavowed Alex as his daughter, opening the way for Keamey to execute her.  He then showed surprise when Ben mentions the reason for his visit was to announce he's going to kill Penny, so that couldn't have been a worry previously.   In saying he'd been expecting Ben, this shows that, at the very least, he knows by that point in 2005 that his earlier freighter gambit had failed, Alex had been killed, yet Ben had survived.  Perhaps Keamey survived long enough to communicate an update back to Widmore, or perhaps it had been Daniel, Charlotte, or Gault.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LouE68 on April 26, 2008, 09:14:50 PM
Well, maybe, but he turned the faucet on all right....

It's one thing to turn it one with your hand, as you're soon to wash away any germs picked up in doing so, but another to touch it afterwards with your just-sanitized hands.

maybe he recieved the news of Alex death, knowing the shape of things to come, knowing he changed the rules of the game, knowing Ben would come after Pen...didnt he say something about he had been expecting him?

Widmore wouldn't be upset to the point of nightmares by Alex's death, nor the as-expected continuation of his long-running conflict with Ben.  And in Widmore's mind, he didn't break any rules, as Ben himself had disavowed Alex as his daughter, opening the way for Keamey to execute her.  He then showed surprise when Ben mentions the reason for his visit was to announce he's going to kill Penny, so that couldn't have been a worry previously.   In saying he'd been expecting Ben, this shows that, at the very least, he knows by that point in 2005 that his earlier freighter gambit had failed, Alex had been killed, yet Ben had survived.  Perhaps Keamey survived long enough to communicate an update back to Widmore, or perhaps it had been Daniel, Charlotte, or Gault.
he's upset of Alex death, because he knows Penny will be a target of Ben's...he knows he crossed the line...he doesnt have to show his fear, only that he's been having nightmares...he still calls Ben boy...he's used to a certain power, overbearing if you will...but either way.
you see it one way, I see it another...time will tell....
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on April 26, 2008, 09:38:51 PM
My guess is that the answer to this question won't come until the final Ben v. Widmore, Indiana Jones & The Temple of Doom-like confrontation at the end of season 6.  Quite an excruciating long time to wait.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: DIZZYBECKSTER on April 30, 2008, 05:10:44 AM
I bet he can find the island's location geographically, but he cant find the island in 'time'
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: DIZZYBECKSTER on April 30, 2008, 06:09:09 AM
gigglesnort... i wonder if Ben is collecting AirMiles?
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: JBRam on May 05, 2008, 08:10:03 PM
I thought Widmore calling Ben "Boy" was derogatory.  Reminded me of a slave owner calling a slave that.
Completely agree. This was the only thing I thought of.


Quote
When Charles said to him you have gotten some color lately, Ben stated  your rock  is lovely this time of year. He never refereed to being in the middle east. 
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D Rock = Iraq.

There was no discussion about the middle east.... Rock = Island.... Widmore does not own the middle east and the conversation was about the island.
Closed Captions confirm Iraq.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on May 06, 2008, 09:36:08 AM
My thoughts on Widmore's nightmares are similar to the way we have seen Hurley and Jack suffer.
Hurley is haunted by Charlie and Jack by Christian, both likely as a result of their leaving the Island. This would mean that Widmore has been on the Island at some point (not unimmaginable seeing as he see's the Island as His) and maybe he is recieving visits from one of the Island 'spirits'.
I think the Island appears in the different forms (Yemi, Charlie, Christain) dependant on how the recepient would feel 'drawn' to the character - for instance Eko was drawn to Yemi due to his guilt, Jack maybe the same with Christian and Hurley seemed to get on better with Charlie than anyone else (although in an Ideal world maybe Libby should have paid him a visit, in fact maybe she does in a future (or past???) scene in the mental institute).

So my feelings are that Widmore has had similar visits from an Island 'ghost', thus giving him nightmares. It may explain how he knew Ben would visit him, Charlie told Hurley that someone would visit Jack, maybe Widmore's visitor told him to expect a visit from Ben?
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on May 06, 2008, 01:59:07 PM
So my feelings are that Widmore has had similar visits from an Island 'ghost', thus giving him nightmares. It may explain how he knew Ben would visit him, Charlie told Hurley that someone would visit Jack, maybe Widmore's visitor told him to expect a visit from Ben?

Good theory!!!
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Staggerlee on May 06, 2008, 02:21:27 PM
Well, maybe, but he turned the faucet on all right....

It's one thing to turn it one with your hand, as you're soon to wash away any germs picked up in doing so, but another to touch it afterwards with your just-sanitized hands.

maybe he recieved the news of Alex death, knowing the shape of things to come, knowing he changed the rules of the game, knowing Ben would come after Pen...didnt he say something about he had been expecting him?

Widmore wouldn't be upset to the point of nightmares by Alex's death, nor the as-expected continuation of his long-running conflict with Ben.  And in Widmore's mind, he didn't break any rules, as Ben himself had disavowed Alex as his daughter, opening the way for Keamey to execute her.  He then showed surprise when Ben mentions the reason for his visit was to announce he's going to kill Penny, so that couldn't have been a worry previously.   In saying he'd been expecting Ben, this shows that, at the very least, he knows by that point in 2005 that his earlier freighter gambit had failed, Alex had been killed, yet Ben had survived.  Perhaps Keamey survived long enough to communicate an update back to Widmore, or perhaps it had been Daniel, Charlotte, or Gault.
he's upset of Alex death, because he knows Penny will be a target of Ben's...he knows he crossed the line...he doesnt have to show his fear, only that he's been having nightmares...he still calls Ben boy...he's used to a certain power, overbearing if you will...but either way.
you see it one way, I see it another...time will tell....


quite possibly it's one of those things where "he knows that I know that he knows I know what he knows" in regards the broken "rules"...daughters being sacrificed...

any time an individual plays a game, breaks a rule, either purposefully or not, is not caught, that is in the back of the mind, whether or not it will be found out, or used against then in the near and near.

The writers either jokingly or seriously said "..keep reading the Bible." in regards where the story is going...I recall only sacrifices of sons (lives) in the Bible, is there any similar there re: daughters? Or are they just playing freely with the idea of it, switching one for the other to fit the story?
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on May 09, 2008, 03:24:39 PM
Charles' remark to Ben of "I see you've been getting more sun" is a little odd, considering that the man lives on a tropical island!  ???

Taking this remark into consideration, along with with Ben's parka, would it be so wacky to consider that the island moves to an arctic location in the future?

If my sworn enemy sauntered into my bedroom as I slept, the hue of their complexion wouldn't be high on my list of things to say.

I was correct!!! The island can move!!!

If it's later proven that Charles and Penelope Widmore are the same person, you all owe me a beer.

In the meantime, you can all kiss my arse.  :-*

lol
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 09, 2008, 06:13:17 PM
Good job, Mango. We have speculated about this before, see below, but nobody has taken it very seriously as far as I know. I remember a discussion on this topic back last summer, in fact, but can't find those posts now.

I think there can be only one magnetic north (or south) pole for the planet at a time, so I don't think it could be different in Russia than it is anywhere else....

The Vortices, or something like them is about the only theory we have that explains how Yemi's plane could end up on the Island. The only other one I can think of is that the Island moves. A moving, rolling, constantly shifting Island could also explain the BR now being landlocked.

Dunno, need more intel. Go undercover, will you Stagger?
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on May 09, 2008, 06:17:53 PM
Charles' remark to Ben of "I see you've been getting more sun" is a little odd, considering that the man lives on a tropical island!  ???

Taking this remark into consideration, along with with Ben's parka, would it be so wacky to consider that the island moves to an arctic location in the future?

If my sworn enemy sauntered into my bedroom as I slept, the hue of their complexion wouldn't be high on my list of things to say.

I was correct!!! The island can move!!!

If it's later proven that Charles and Penelope Widmore are the same person, you all owe me a beer.

In the meantime, you can all kiss my arse.  :-*

lol


I'll pass on the arse kissing thanks :P

However congratulations on the moving Island theories - I must admit at the time I felt the show could well 'jump the shark' if it turned out the Island moved around but on reflection, the way it seems to be going now, I feel they may just get away with it.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on May 09, 2008, 06:31:34 PM
Good job, Mango. We have speculated about this before, see below, but nobody has taken it very seriously as far as I know. I remember a discussion on this topic back last summer, in fact, but can't find those posts now.

Oh.

Oh, well. I guess I wasn't the first to propose that the island can move geographically - but the first to relate Widmore's "more sun" comment to the phenomenon.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 09, 2008, 07:28:51 PM
You came up with it independently. I think that's all that counts!! And you could still be right about it's heading for colder climes.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on May 09, 2008, 08:18:03 PM
You came up with it independently. I think that's all that counts!! And you could still be right about it's heading for colder climes.

Imagine if Season Five has a sort of 'Empire Strikes Back' look and feel about it... I'll be really disappointed if I'm wrong!
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: JBRam on May 10, 2008, 02:56:13 PM
You came up with it independently. I think that's all that counts!! And you could still be right about it's heading for colder climes.

Imagine if Season Five has a sort of 'Empire Strikes Back' look and feel about it... I'll be really disappointed if I'm wrong!
The island is not Hoth. ;)
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on May 11, 2008, 11:30:24 AM
You came up with it independently. I think that's all that counts!! And you could still be right about it's heading for colder climes.

Imagine if Season Five has a sort of 'Empire Strikes Back' look and feel about it... I'll be really disappointed if I'm wrong!
The island is not Hoth. ;)

Not yet, it isn't"  :)
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: JBRam on May 12, 2008, 12:21:23 PM
You came up with it independently. I think that's all that counts!! And you could still be right about it's heading for colder climes.

Imagine if Season Five has a sort of 'Empire Strikes Back' look and feel about it... I'll be really disappointed if I'm wrong!
The island is not Hoth. ;)

Not yet, it isn't"  :)
I'll wait for the star wars vehicles to appear before I agree with you ;D
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on May 12, 2008, 03:15:28 PM
Imagine if Season Five has a sort of 'Empire Strikes Back' look and feel about it... I'll be really disappointed if I'm wrong!
The island is not Hoth. ;)

Not yet, it isn't  :)
I'll wait for the star wars vehicles to appear before I agree with you ;D

Now this is interesting...

It's an interview with Damon and Carlton on E!Online. Read Carlton's last comment.

http://uk.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b13448_claire_dead_are_they_really_time.html

I know he's talking about the feel of Season Five but maybe it's another massive clue.

 :)

Edited because the damned URL at E!Online changed!
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Staggerlee on May 12, 2008, 04:09:08 PM
Good job, Mango. We have speculated about this before, see below, but nobody has taken it very seriously as far as I know. I remember a discussion on this topic back last summer, in fact, but can't find those posts now.

Oh.

Oh, well. I guess I wasn't the first to propose that the island can move geographically - but the first to relate Widmore's "more sun" comment to the phenomenon.


This is close  to the right bearing...methinks thy shouldeth continueth to paddle...

row row row your boat...gently through the vortices...merrily merrily merrily merrily, life is but a....flash...
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on May 16, 2008, 08:39:01 PM
Interesting turn of phrase from the co-executive producer, Jean Higgins, in an interview with TV Guide...

http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TV-Show-Blog/Tv-Previews/Lost-Finale-Preview/800039681

Quote
Remember the time you couldn't figure out how to move that sofa from one room to another? Lost co-executive producer Jean Higgins feels your pain. And then some. Right now, she's preparing to move an entire island. After all, that's what Christian Shephard advised Locke to do in the May 8th episode. Though Higgins isn't at liberty to reveal how such a feat will be attempted, she will say that it calls for a new set piece — and "a very interesting" one at that. "It will be cool," she adds, proudly.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostinLock on May 29, 2008, 04:19:50 PM
Going back to your original post-

So, the fact that Widmore's freighter found the island and then when Ben moves it, because of the attacks etc.  He,Ben ends up in the middle of the desert, finds the hotel where he has standing reservations, asks what day it is because when he moved the island he also moved himself!

So it would make sense about the asking about his coloring, though he did say he was in Iraq.

I think I drank the kool aid MB cause your original post almost makes sense now.

Though the time movement wasn't not years but months. Because if this makes any sense at all, when they were on the freighter it was Christmas Eve and so as days move or not on the island by the time they leave it is at least New Years Eve.

Though, the way Sayid spoke it sounded as if he was home a lot longer than that.

Well,....interesting.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on May 29, 2008, 04:38:05 PM
I think I drank the kool aid MB cause your original post almost makes sense now.

It's more simple really...

01. Ben moves the Island to an Arctic location. Widmore doesn't know exactly where the Island is now located, only that it's gone from a tropical climate to colder climes;

02. When Ben appears in Charles' bedroom, Charles comments on Ben's complexion because the Island would not be conducive to gaining a tan in its current non-tropical position.

Pass the Kool Aid!
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: LostAndSeek on May 29, 2008, 05:28:07 PM
It can't move to a cold location. As someone else pointed out it'd mean the characters, male and female, would have to wear clothes that actually cover them up!
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: JBRam on June 01, 2008, 04:23:59 PM
I think I drank the kool aid MB cause your original post almost makes sense now.

It's more simple really...

01. Ben moves the Island to an Arctic location. Widmore doesn't know exactly where the Island is now located, only that it's gone from a tropical climate to colder climes;

02. When Ben appears in Charles' bedroom, Charles comments on Ben's complexion because the Island would not be conducive to gaining a tan in its current non-tropical position.

Pass the Kool Aid!
Although we don't know the new location of the island, I would highly doubt it would be moved to the arctic in the dead of winter (New Years). Not enough Parkas.

Also, How the flip would Charles know the location of the island? I don't even think Ben knows the location.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Staggerlee on June 01, 2008, 06:05:43 PM
Exactamundo...

I think the cold environ of the "cave behind the wall" answered rather adroitly the reason for the parka.
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on June 01, 2008, 09:19:45 PM
Exactamundo...

I think the cold environ of the "cave behind the wall" answered rather adroitly the reason for the parka.

I know!

 :(

I'm gutted!!!
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: Staggerlee on June 02, 2008, 12:25:22 AM
no need for unhappiness...

the fun of speculation is just that, FUN, and yer one of the crazy logical ones...

I'd follow you down the rabbit hole...long as you do not mind a
nonsense spouting ex-Texan with only a few unassuming peccadilloes following and
occasionally stopping hither and thither to satisfy a few minor OCD issues... ;D


also, you may turn out to be right nonetheless... ;)
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on June 02, 2008, 05:54:31 PM
I'd follow you down the rabbit hole...long as you do not mind a
nonsense spouting ex-Texan with only a few unassuming peccadilloes following and
occasionally stopping hither and thither to satisfy a few minor OCD issues... ;D


also, you may turn out to be right nonetheless... ;)


I love you!  :)
Title: Re: "I See You've Been Getting More Sun" WTF?
Post by: MangoBingo on February 20, 2009, 09:48:23 PM
You came up with it independently. I think that's all that counts!! And you could still be right about it's heading for colder climes.

Imagine if Season Five has a sort of 'Empire Strikes Back' look and feel about it... I'll be really disappointed if I'm wrong!
The island is not Hoth. ;)

 :-X