Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 4 => Episode 4x09 => Topic started by: LostinLock on April 25, 2008, 12:40:33 AM

Title: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LostinLock on April 25, 2008, 12:40:33 AM
Ah yes, leave it to Ben to have yet another door that let him release smokey?   
The ironic thing is that the house is small, so to have the secret room and then another one that is leading to a cave or perphaps Jacob...

well, point is here we go again with Ben.

Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: jugdish on April 25, 2008, 12:41:45 AM
Not many secret rooms have secret rooms, but Ben has one!!
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LostinLock on April 25, 2008, 12:43:45 AM
Maybe Ben is a twin and that is why he needs all those extra rooms
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Maxor127 on April 25, 2008, 12:44:19 AM
What was inside that room?  Looked like cave drawings or runes or something.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: jugdish on April 25, 2008, 12:45:09 AM
He came out all muddy also
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: losttill0208 on April 25, 2008, 12:45:55 AM
It was obviously a cave.. he came out all dirty.. covered in soot or something..

On second thought..Maybe he's not controlling smokie.. but just literally opened the gates to let smokie in..
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: jugdish on April 25, 2008, 12:47:58 AM
HE might of been opening something up for smokie, but he was confident in what the results were going to be and that he was not going to get attacked
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: lostfan777 on April 25, 2008, 12:49:36 AM
HE might of been opening something up for smokie, but he was confident in what the results were going to be and that he was not going to get attacked

I agree, but he did want to be away from the freighters, as if Smokie is like a trained bear, he can do tricks but don't let him get hungry!
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: hyperform on April 25, 2008, 01:02:28 AM
that seemed like all the smokies in one, it was huge
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on April 25, 2008, 01:04:10 AM
Im starting to think more and more that there is a little box on the island that can bring you anything you want.  Just like Ben told Locke.

Anyone else think this.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on April 25, 2008, 01:09:01 AM
Maybe Smokey operates like a decision tree, sensing then attacking the most serious threats to the island first.  In which case, Ben felt confident that Smokey would leave the lesser threat (himself, the Losties) alone, so let him into Othertown.

I think it more likely that Smokey is like Hal, and Ben went down his little cave to the Smokey control room, and changed Smokey's parameters.

What I'd like to know is, when we will learn about the underground system of tunnels indicated by the blast door map?  The fact that Ben didn't use them in this crisis suggests that, if they ever existed, they are no longer operable. I.e. they collapsed, flooded, etc.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on April 25, 2008, 01:13:49 AM
Ben's allusion to Widmore's 'breaking the rules' provides an explanation for why Ben hasn't used the iron fist of Smokey more liberally in the past, and instead depended on his more subtle tactics.  Now with the gloves off, we're guaranteed more wonderful zaniness from the show.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: lostfan777 on April 25, 2008, 01:14:55 AM
Maybe Smokie gained access to them and now they aren't safe to travel?

Oh and I love the title about Smokie hiding 'in the closet'.  Maybe all Ben had to do was tell Smokie that Tom was dead and that set him off!   ;D
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: norville on April 25, 2008, 03:05:22 AM
I think it seems like a pretty sure bet that the tunnels under the island are Smokey's domain.  Smokey tried to drag Locke undergound. The blast door map talked about the C.V.'s ("Cerberus Vents"? was that confirmed or just speculation?) -- but Cerberus (Greek mythology's three headed hound guarding the underworld) seems like it's got to be Smokey's name.  Ben just so happens to have a convenient entrance to Cerberus's lair right from his secret room!
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Maxor127 on April 25, 2008, 04:56:16 AM
I don't remember if anything has been officially confirmed about Smokey being Cerberus, but I think it's a safe bet that that's his name.  When it was attacking Juliet and Kate, it had 3 dog faces, or maybe it was just one.  I don't remember.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Fallybear on April 25, 2008, 07:30:03 AM
It was obviously a cave.. he came out all dirty.. covered in soot or something..

On second thought..Maybe he's not controlling smokie.. but just literally opened the gates to let smokie in..

It was like Ben called in a "Broken Arrow". In the military, when you are over run by the enemy, you can call in an airstrike on your own position. You hunker down and HOPE you don't get killed by your own team. It is always a last resort to being killed.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LostinLock on April 25, 2008, 07:57:19 AM
Maybe Smokey operates like a decision tree, sensing then attacking the most serious threats to the island first.  In which case, Ben felt confident that Smokey would leave the lesser threat (himself, the Losties) alone, so let him into Othertown.

I think it more likely that Smokey is like Hal, and Ben went down his little cave to the Smokey control room, and changed Smokey's parameters.

What I'd like to know is, when we will learn about the underground system of tunnels indicated by the blast door map?  The fact that Ben didn't use them in this crisis suggests that, if they ever existed, they are no longer operable. I.e. they collapsed, flooded, etc.

I am in to many threads to recall the exact one, but I will update this post when I do find my reference.  My point is simple.  After thinking about this and seeing the previews for this April 24th show, I thought to myself, Smokey (my hero) is not going to let anyone from our island get hurt.  And when Ben went into this cave door, that just cracks me up (and goes back to season one caves) I thought he is either going to speak with Jacob (his reference to he changed the rules) or he ran away and is leaving our friends.  But that was soon changed when he asked them to get out of the house and head for the tree line, I knew the calvary was coming. 

I knew smokey was going to whup some butt, (oh I will place this next comment in the spoiler section it refers to next weeks episode).  He did and it was long and mean! Smokey had left the building and was having fun.

So after a screen shot review we can figure this door out. 

We now understand some more as to why Ben needs that room, and thank goodness they didn't blow it up.

Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: E-Rich on April 25, 2008, 08:09:57 AM
He came out all muddy also

Oh....you thought Muddy?  I thought he looked more "soot-y" or covered in ash.  (Don't really know if sooty is a word....)  If the secret secret room leads to Jacob (which really doesn't make sense because he said he needed Hurley to find the cabin) then he would have had to cross that line of black powder that surrounds his cabin....
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: red255 on April 25, 2008, 08:50:53 AM
Im starting to think more and more that there is a little box on the island that can bring you anything you want.  Just like Ben told Locke.

Anyone else think this.

I said the exact thing to my husband after the episode ended. Ben was being literal about the box!
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: lostieloo on April 25, 2008, 09:57:34 AM
Ah yes, leave it to Ben to have yet another door that let him release smokey?   
The ironic thing is that the house is small, so to have the secret room and then another one that is leading to a cave or perphaps Jacob...

well, point is here we go again with Ben.


I don't think it leads to Jacob...why would Ben say that they needed Hurley to find him?  That part confuses me a bit. 
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Ladybug on April 25, 2008, 11:00:34 AM
i thought he looked muddy, not sooty.  what got me was that the cave was obviously old, very old.  which makes me think they built this house on top of the cave.  maybe it is the key to controlling smokey.  maybe there's another button to push to control the electromagnetic mumbo jumbo, and that's how he's controlled.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: OhJoy on April 25, 2008, 11:40:27 AM
Correct me if I am wrong.. I also am not 100% on the connection I am trying to make with this but remember when smokey was chasing a few of the losties (I want to say Kate, Jack, Locke, Sawyer) and they reached the big electric fence, they climbed over it but then smokey couldn't get through it and kinda just went away... I guess what I am saying is that at that time, I believed that the fence was to keep smokey out of othersville bc it was bad.. now this gives me a whole new theory on smokey and its roots and motives... the only other thing about the whole he cant get through the fence is that he doesnt have to bc he takes the underground tunnels... also, that scene made it clear that Ben did somehow activate it....

sorry i just rambled
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Austruck on April 25, 2008, 02:03:58 PM
He didn't look muddy to me, but sooty. Muddy would have meant his clothes would have been damp/wet and clung to him differently than they did. Definitely dirt/soot but not mud/wet.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Ladybug on April 25, 2008, 03:27:31 PM
He didn't look muddy to me, but sooty. Muddy would have meant his clothes would have been damp/wet and clung to him differently than they did. Definitely dirt/soot but not mud/wet.
well, i meant dirt.  i could have said dirty, but dirty means any number of things, so i said muddy.  he was dirty as in from dirt as opposed to sooty as in from soot, or ash.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: JBRam on April 25, 2008, 04:02:52 PM
HE might of been opening something up for smokie, but he was confident in what the results were going to be and that he was not going to get attacked
He was also confident that Keamy wouldn't kill Alex...

I think it seems like a pretty sure bet that the tunnels under the island are Smokey's domain.  Smokey tried to drag Locke undergound. The blast door map talked about the C.V.'s ("Cerberus Vents"? was that confirmed or just speculation?) -- but Cerberus (Greek mythology's three headed hound guarding the underworld) seems like it's got to be Smokey's name.  Ben just so happens to have a convenient entrance to Cerberus's lair right from his secret room!
I believe this was confirmed. It was also strongly suggested that Cerberus means Smokey.
He didn't look muddy to me, but sooty. Muddy would have meant his clothes would have been damp/wet and clung to him differently than they did. Definitely dirt/soot but not mud/wet.
well, i meant dirt.  i could have said dirty, but dirty means any number of things, so i said muddy.  he was dirty as in from dirt as opposed to sooty as in from soot, or ash.
I thought he looked dirt-y too.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LostAndSeek on April 25, 2008, 08:17:47 PM
I agree with dry dirty as opposed to muddy. Not sure if he actively called Smokie or just opened a hatchway somewhere that let Smokie come in. I don't think he has the monster under full control or there'd be no need for them to run away, would there?
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: hyperform on April 27, 2008, 10:15:01 PM
he looked like he just got back from a long day at the foundry
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LouE68 on April 27, 2008, 10:17:52 PM
he was in a cave!!! getting dirt on you isnt a far stretch...of course setting off his smokey thumper is another thing...
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Asmodean on April 28, 2008, 11:36:13 AM
It was obviously a cave.. he came out all dirty.. covered in soot or something..

On second thought..Maybe he's not controlling smokie.. but just literally opened the gates to let smokie in..

It was like Ben called in a "Broken Arrow". In the military, when you are over run by the enemy, you can call in an airstrike on your own position. You hunker down and HOPE you don't get killed by your own team. It is always a last resort to being killed.

Broken Arrow is an event involving nukes.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LostinLock on April 28, 2008, 11:06:06 PM
Dirty, Sooty, muddy whatever condition he came back into the room we can agree Ben affected Smokey to do it's work.

But the purpose of this was the secret room inside that room.  Does anyone know what the hieroglyphics say?

There has to be a reason that door and room was kept hidden.  Does it lead to the temple?  If those underground caves and not the ones Dharma created, were there from a time prior to Dharma. What is the purpose other than going to other places on the island.

I guess we do know that Smokey is hiding down there.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: patrixmith on April 29, 2008, 03:07:10 PM
Dirty, Sooty, muddy whatever condition he came back into the room we can agree Ben affected Smokey to do it's work.

Agreed (Also, If you've ever been near a large black smoke burning fire, you'll be covered in a similar black residue. Ben was definitely with Smokey in the cave).

In regards to whether Ben affected Smokey, even our Losties knew Ben had a hand in setting Smokey loose. This is easily confirmed; when Smokey starts kicking some booty and the Losties run outside, Locke yells to Ben, "What did you do?" and Hurley says to Ben right after he returned from the cave, "Dude, did you just call that thing?" And then after Smokey leaves Locke says to Ben, "I'm sorry about your daughter, but that being said, you lied to me. You told me you didn't know what the smoke monster was." There's no question about it; they all know Ben set it loose.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on April 29, 2008, 03:51:51 PM
I think it's less likely that where Ben went to, to do whatever he did to summon/direct Smokey, wasn't the actual tunnel that Smokey moves about it in.  Rather, like those service tunnels that are bored out parallel to underground train tunnels, Ben went to a separate tunnel/cave to access the controls, where it nonetheless is berry, berry durrrty.

Or, maybe Ben speaks Parsel Tongue, like Harry Potter, and coiled up with Smokey in his snake pit. But that'd make Ben a snake, and not a swine.  What disgusting creature best represents Ben? Reminds me of the infamous Snake vs. Rat speech from the first season of Survivor:
   http://youtube.com/watch?v=aBSMBfoMVHk
Classic.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: T Mack on April 29, 2008, 05:05:18 PM
Im starting to think more and more that there is a little box on the island that can bring you anything you want.  Just like Ben told Locke.

Anyone else think this.
 

I said the exact thing to my husband after the episode ended. Ben was being literal about the box!
This was my original assumption, and I was ridiculed for it.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: DIZZYBECKSTER on April 30, 2008, 07:30:58 AM
I think it's less likely that where Ben went to, to do whatever he did to summon/direct Smokey, wasn't the actual tunnel that Smokey moves about it in.  Rather, like those service tunnels that are bored out parallel to underground train tunnels, Ben went to a separate tunnel/cave to access the controls, where it nonetheless is berry, berry durrrty.


GIGGLESNORT.. I actually heard you say that in my head...!!
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LostinLock on April 30, 2008, 01:36:30 PM
Interesting--- i did read some stuff about the doors and what they represent.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LouE68 on April 30, 2008, 09:40:26 PM
Did anybody see the translation of the hieroglyphs? Something about it meaning "to summon protection" but can be changed to mean several other things...still close tho...
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LostinLock on April 30, 2008, 09:56:38 PM
Did anybody see the translation of the hieroglyphs? Something about it meaning "to summon protection" but can be changed to mean several other things...still close tho...

I thought they were more about healing ....it was limited but interesting enough to get one thinking. 

I look forward to the full translation.  If you come across it let me know.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LouE68 on April 30, 2008, 10:04:09 PM
"Time to summon strength"

"To summon time protection" or "To summon time power"

"Time summons the power of life"

Source:Docazrt

more of the possible meanings of the symbols...
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Jungle Otter on May 15, 2008, 12:03:44 PM
Some of the marks on the door are heiroglyphs (Egyptian)! Much like the symbols on thw timer from the Swan....by Jorge's face from left to right:
(http://bp1.blogger.com/_Eg7K8tnyPqk/SCM2XEQEWZI/AAAAAAAAAdA/8s4i8JJjJkM/s1600-h/door.jpg)

the figure before the crook and reed and water symbol could be the glyph for "force" the glyphs spell - S-I-N however above the water glyph appears to be a circle which is the symbol for time or sun...not exactly sure how that all translates - just recognize a few symbols from trying to learn to read heiroglyphs...  :-\

the figure below the glyphs is holding a cross before the fish....interesting mix of symbology....
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Jungle Otter on May 28, 2008, 10:55:33 AM
found another pic of the door....

(http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080424/Lost_wall_l.jpg)
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: hyperform on November 26, 2008, 03:27:14 PM
I just rewatched this  episode, and something occurred to me. The barracks were built by Dharma, before Ben was on the island. So does that mean that someone in Dharma built the secret room, and the secret secret room, back then?
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LostinLock on November 26, 2008, 04:25:34 PM
found another pic of the door....

(http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/080424/Lost_wall_l.jpg)

any decipering?  I could never find larger pictures of that either.

I just rewatched this  episode, and something occurred to me. The barracks were built by Dharma, before Ben was on the island. So does that mean that someone in Dharma built the secret room, and the secret secret room, back then?

Well, yes it would make sense they were "hiding" them.  Remember Ben blew a hole in the transporter pod so he could get to the wheel.  So Dharma knew what was there and their tests were perhaps in line with what was in those areas.  We found that out with the Swan.

But what were they attempting to "control"   :'(
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: jugdish on November 27, 2008, 02:07:13 PM
I agree with that!
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: Jungle Otter on November 28, 2008, 01:58:56 PM
I just rewatched this  episode, and something occurred to me. The barracks were built by Dharma, before Ben was on the island. So does that mean that someone in Dharma built the secret room, and the secret secret room, back then?

Otherville was constructed atop the ancient ruins of another culture, one that possible created Smokey. The secret door led to a chamber where rituals were made to the gods of that culture. Smokey is an "extension" of those gods made manifest over many years. The culture thereby gave the island "life" inadvertantly. DHARMA scientists stumbled upon this chamber and decided it was best to keep it hidden from unauthorized eyes, so they hid Smokey's chamber under the barracks of the DHARMA leader. Unfortunately, they did not forsee being wiped out. Ben found the door, translated the symbols and found a way of "resurecting" the ancient power, so to speak. In this light, Jacob is but an extension of another force on the island. So you have one for seemingly good, one for seemingly bad. Light and dark - both raised by the ancient rituals on the island.

The "donkey wheel" is another part of the ancient complex. Again, DHARMA scientists found the site and "buried" it under their own, tapping into the power source of the wheel which they used to temporal experiments. Ben, after completing his coup over DHARMA, read about the ancient "temple" in DHARMA documents and learned what the scientists knew of the "time wheel".

Of course this is just a theory  ;D
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LostAndSeek on November 30, 2008, 12:58:37 PM
I pretty much agree with the broad outlines of this theory, Otter. Whether the ancient culture is a human one and the supernatural is involved, or whether it's alien and we're talking science fiction (or some variation) I think is still up for grabs.

Also, are you arguing for Dharma as the seemingly good and Ben as the seemingly evil? If so, I agree with the Dharma part. I don't think there's anything seemingly about Ben at present though there's always the chance he's not beyond some form of redemption.

And how does Jacob fit in again?  ;)
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LostinLock on November 30, 2008, 10:18:12 PM


As for Dharma they built on those areas on purpose.  Maybe alluding to one thing to the non-crucial personell, but there ultimate goal was to harvest and "exploit" what was on the island.  To who's advantage we will know soon enough.

As for Ben, not a fan of the character, but he had help learning things and from the islands own, Richard et al.  Ben does what he does for the island, there is no doubt and perhaps even though Dharma's intent was not malicious, overall the "true natives" had a different perception.

Sorry still do not believe this has anything to do with Aliens.

I do believe this is of a "spiritual" nature however one perceives that.  Actually I much prefer the calendar theory  ;)



 

Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: jugdish on November 30, 2008, 11:27:30 PM
Not sure if Dharma was trying to exploit the island. I believe they wanted to use it for good, but could not or would not involve the Others who wanted to keep the island pure.
Title: Re: The Secret room within the secret room and was smokey hiding in the closet?
Post by: LostinLock on November 30, 2008, 11:42:51 PM
Not sure if Dharma was trying to exploit the island. I believe they wanted to use it for good, but could not or would not involve the Others who wanted to keep the island pure.

I was using the term "exploit" more in the sense of development, make use of, make the most of as opposed to taking advantage.

I would hope their intent was for the greater"good" but the one element we miss to substantiate this is who funded them?  It is apparent this island was picked for the "natural" resources or "supernatural" resources it held.

Dharma would have to be somewhat duplicitous about what the true intent was or how would they get people to come there and work?

Juggy you are right the "others" were allegedly causing issues with Dharma, ergo the fence.  I also think that Smokey was there when they Dharma crew was there, I am 99.9% positive about this.