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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 4 => Episode 4x07 => Topic started by: surfmadpig on March 14, 2008, 02:49:02 PM

Title: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: surfmadpig on March 14, 2008, 02:49:02 PM
I know there are threads on this, I just wanted to see what most of us believe :b

(Apologies if this is not allowed)

In any case, I believe Jin is NOT dead, and perhaps even Sun knows so, but has no means to contact him and he has no means to come to her.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: matahari on March 14, 2008, 02:51:41 PM
Cover-up!

but we thought he died at the end of season 3 so who knows.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: stinger456 on March 14, 2008, 02:53:12 PM
i think it is also a coverup, he may be working for ben now just like sayid
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Maxor127 on March 14, 2008, 03:24:42 PM
It's possible he's still alive, but I doubt it.  So I say dead.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Ladybug on March 14, 2008, 03:25:51 PM
i say alive and on the island.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: gjohnson on March 14, 2008, 03:28:19 PM
i say alive and on the island.
Ditto!
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: jugdish on March 14, 2008, 03:30:48 PM
i say alive and on the island.
Ditto!
DITTO THAT
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: sillysab on March 14, 2008, 04:17:46 PM
Cover-up!

but we thought he died at the end of season 3 so who knows.
Cover up!!!
i think it is also a coverup, he may be working for ben now just like sayid
I'm going cover-up!!! It's so painfully sad, just like the rest of the Jin/Sun story has been, but it's true. Jack on the stand at Kate's trial made it obvious there is a huge cover-up going on. For what ever reason that we don't know yet, Jin and Sun can no longer be together off the island.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: sillysab on March 14, 2008, 04:22:13 PM
I saw in another thread - how would Sun explain getting pregnant on the island... an island that the existence of is probably still be covered up for, and the 6 are part of the act.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: opgelost on March 14, 2008, 04:30:12 PM
We knew Charlie was going to die by Desmond's visions long before he died, now we know Jin is going to die, long before he will.
I think he is dead in the future.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Blackrock Bob on March 14, 2008, 05:23:44 PM
Why do we say people that are dead and have a head stone in a cemetary are not dead, but people that were never seen buried are alive?

I say his dead, Jin.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on March 14, 2008, 07:05:36 PM
I say that he is one of the two that died.

In Kates episode Jack is on the stand and says that 8 people survived but 2 died soon after.  I think this is the story because when they finally come back to the real world that they bring two dead bodys with them.  Jin and Maybe Claire(based of the vision that Des had where he saw her get on the helicopter with Aaron). 

The reason for the date on the tomb stone saying that he died in the crash, is maybe they had to explain that he died after the crash but they did not necesarilly know what day that he died and the reason he died were from injuries caused by the crash so maybe they just said he was legally dead on the day of the crash.

So 8 people get off the island but two are dead.

Kate, Jack, Sun, Hurley, Sayid, and Aaron.

the two dead people that get off are.

Jin and Claire.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LouE68 on March 14, 2008, 08:50:29 PM
i say alive and on the island.
Ditto!
DITTO THAT
For once I have to disagree with Juggy...wow....
Jin is dead...they used the date of the crash for the coverup thats a given...but why would Hurley and Sun go to the grave site...the reason you go to a grave site is in honor and memory of a desceased person...if he was/is alive on the island she could reflect on Jin in a photo or something at home...
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on March 14, 2008, 08:50:36 PM
Am I being thick here but Jin must be alive and OFF the Island, we saw him at the delivery suite after Sun gave birth, he brought a giant Panda, clear as day, I saw him with my own eyes I tell you!
Sun gave birth off the Island, Jin visited just after the birth, 2+2= Jin is no longer on the Island. I accept Sun must not know he is off the Island yet and so he could very well be working for Ben.
So my question - Why do people beleive Jin is still ON the Island?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on March 14, 2008, 08:51:59 PM
Oh, and another question - Why did the guy at the delivery suite tell Jin it was a baby boy?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LouE68 on March 14, 2008, 08:53:45 PM
Jin had a flashback, year of the dragon 2000, plane crash 2004....he even said he and Sun had only been married a few months....Sun had a flashforward....
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Lostfanchrim on March 14, 2008, 09:02:44 PM
Am I being thick here but Jin must be alive and OFF the Island, we saw him at the delivery suite after Sun gave birth, he brought a giant Panda, clear as day, I saw him with my own eyes I tell you!
Sun gave birth off the Island, Jin visited just after the birth, 2+2= Jin is no longer on the Island. I accept Sun must not know he is off the Island yet and so he could very well be working for Ben.
So my question - Why do people beleive Jin is still ON the Island?

Jin did NOT visit Sun at the hospital. Jin's story was a flashBACK to when he worked for Sun's Father, Paik and was delivering the panda to a client of Mr. paik who just became a grandfather. Pai sent Jin to deliver a message that they wanted to do business with the new grandfather in China (hence, the panda, which is a Chinese, not a Korean thing).
Sun's was a flashFORWARD where she has the baby and, in a drug induced rant, asks for Jin when the doctor ask who he should call for her.
The only thing I don't understand is, If Sun is a "famous" Oceanic 6 survivor, why would everyone NOT know she had lost her husband in the plane crash? Or was the Dr. just humouring her? And, where is her father through all of this? Does he not know his Daughter is having a baby and why isn't he providing her with a ride to the hospital, guards at her door (considering her new found fame) and, what, no gifts from Daddy either?
Is Paik dead too? I say he must be for Sun to be on her own like she seems to be.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Rebel 3:16 on March 14, 2008, 09:04:49 PM
OK thanks for clearing that up, but who was the woman in Jin's flashback? Was it not Sun or were we just tricked into thinking it was?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Asmodean on March 14, 2008, 09:09:04 PM
Cover up.

Plan B:  stuck in the wrong time, unknowingly.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LouE68 on March 14, 2008, 09:09:45 PM
I think and this is my theory, when Jin got with Sun he became Paiks deliveryman, this was one of the easy deliveries
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Lostfanchrim on March 14, 2008, 09:10:18 PM
OK thanks for clearing that up, but who was the woman in Jin's flashback? Was it not Sun or were we just tricked into thinking it was?

 I suppose the woman was paik's client's granddaughter. She didn't look anything like Sun. She had much shorter hair.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Writers_Strike on March 14, 2008, 09:12:10 PM
i say alive and on the island.
Ditto!
DITTO THAT
For once I have to disagree with Juggy...wow....
Jin is dead...they used the date of the crash for the coverup thats a given...but why would Hurley and Sun go to the grave site...the reason you go to a grave site is in honor and memory of a desceased person...if he was/is alive on the island she could reflect on Jin in a photo or something at home...

I agree 100%, Jin is dead probably dies next episode defending his wife.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Asmodean on March 14, 2008, 09:12:56 PM
That'd be honorable at least.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: matahari on March 14, 2008, 09:32:28 PM
I suspect Jin:

a.) lets Sun get off the Island and stays behind to save her and the baby. He would then be abandoned and "covered-up," but remain alive.

b.) dies trying to get Sun off the Island.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Asmodean on March 14, 2008, 09:34:09 PM
Dang, I like that theory too!
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LostAndSeek on March 14, 2008, 09:47:43 PM
I agree with Matahari!!
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on March 14, 2008, 10:26:44 PM
I chose assumed dead by Sun but not really dead.  I think her memory has been tampered with to protect her and the baby.  Also to protect Jin if he's working for Ben.  I don't know that he is, but it's possible.  Michael and Sayid are working for Ben, so why not Jin as well?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: matahari on March 14, 2008, 10:36:49 PM
I chose assumed dead by Sun but not really dead.  I think her memory has been tampered with to protect her and the baby.  Also to protect Jin if he's working for Ben.  I don't know that he is, but it's possible.  Michael and Sayid are working for Ben, so why not Jin as well?

I made the same choice. Memory tampering is plausible. I prefer delirium. She was calling out for Jin during Ji yeon's birth. They sedated her.

Jin is quite the bada$$. I could see him being manipulated in order to reunite with Sun & the baby.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Hurley rocks dudes on March 14, 2008, 11:02:26 PM
Am I being thick here but Jin must be alive and OFF the Island, we saw him at the delivery suite after Sun gave birth, he brought a giant Panda, clear as day, I saw him with my own eyes I tell you!
Sun gave birth off the Island, Jin visited just after the birth, 2+2= Jin is no longer on the Island. I accept Sun must not know he is off the Island yet and so he could very well be working for Ben.
So my question - Why do people beleive Jin is still ON the Island?
because it wasn't the same baby... Jins flashback was pre-crash...while Sun's was post-crash.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on March 15, 2008, 01:45:27 AM
Is it a bad sign that Jin didn't flash forward?  I still think he's alive, but why didn't he flash forward, too?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Shoeless on March 15, 2008, 02:48:27 AM
I chose assumed dead by Sun but not really dead.  I think her memory has been tampered with to protect her and the baby.   Also to protect Jin if he's working for Ben.  I don't know that he is, but it's possible.  Michael and Sayid are working for Ben, so why not Jin as well?
good theory!!!  The doctor told Sun that the drugs they gave her would cause her to have a difficult birth (islands effects or Daddy's hired gun/doc). And in Hurley's ff that guy (can't remember his name) asked if the others (Oceanic 6) were still alive - maybe Hurley ratted Sun off (and Jin is covering for her safety) ... Jin said on the island that "I'll do anything to protect you and the baby."

*still sitting on the fence with this one tho* :-\
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Writers_Strike on March 15, 2008, 04:32:17 AM
Memory tampering? I think you all just make up things just to fit your beliefs. Have we seen any evidence of memory tampering? I haven't, and Karl was being brainwashed.

But we do know that Christian is alive.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on March 15, 2008, 05:49:49 AM
Memory tampering? I think you all just make up things just to fit your beliefs. Have we seen any evidence of memory tampering? I haven't, and Karl was being brainwashed.

But we do know that Christian is alive.
If you go to Lostpedia and search "memory" you'll come up with many examples of memory loss among the survivors. 
Claire had amnesia about all post-crash events after Ethan injected her with something at the Staff. 
Sun was treated by a doctor she didn't know and he had her injected with an unspecified "something for the pain" when she had her baby.  Maybe the chemical caused some amnesia.

As for "making things up to fit your beliefs" I like to think of it as speculation and theorizing.  We do a lot of that here.  Nobody knows for sure what is really going on except a few show insiders, and they aren't giving anything away. 
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: opgelost on March 15, 2008, 06:58:27 AM
If Jin flashes too 1996, he has no constant.
He has not met Sun, doesn't know his mother,
doesn't care about his father.
He will die. It's the Karmathing they were talking about.

Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Shoeless on March 15, 2008, 07:58:32 AM
... Sun was treated by a doctor she didn't know and he had her injected with an unspecified "something for the pain" when she had her baby.  Maybe the chemical caused some amnesia.

I wondered if Sun had been "treated" for possible side-effects due to pregnancy on island which may have brought on early labor and loss of memory (as well as difficult labor)?
A different angle:  the memory tampering was possibly for "an other's" benefit - Ji Yeon is "special" too?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LostAndSeek on March 15, 2008, 10:12:32 AM
Shoeless, I wondered the same thing. Juliet once said she thought the problems happened at conception, but now it looks like the problems happen in the second trimester. It may be that as long you're off the island during that period you're OK. Claire came to the Island well after, Sun apparently leaves the Island before.

I s'pose memory manipulation is a possibility but I don't think we have much evidence for it. Claire was drugged the whole time she was kidnapped, so of course she had trouble remembering. Sun was in great distress in the hospital and under medication so she gets disoriented. Could there be more? Sure. Need there be more? Nope. At least not based on what we've seen so far.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: laklost on March 15, 2008, 05:05:03 PM
Shoeless, I wondered the same thing. Juliet once said she thought the problems happened at conception, but now it looks like the problems happen in the second trimester. It may be that as long you're off the island during that period you're OK. Claire came to the Island well after, Sun apparently leaves the Island before.

I s'pose memory manipulation is a possibility but I don't think we have much evidence for it. Claire was drugged the whole time she was kidnapped, so of course she had trouble remembering. Sun was in great distress in the hospital and under medication so she gets disoriented. Could there be more? Sure. Need there be more? Nope. At least not based on what we've seen so far.

Thank you!
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: vickilynn on March 15, 2008, 05:45:37 PM
I think he is "dead" on the island...but, Sun was so convincing at the graveside! Of course, if she feels like she will never see him again, he may as well be dead, and she would be just as convincing with her wish that she could see him again. I think he stayed behind so she could get off the island.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: laklost on March 15, 2008, 07:22:56 PM
I think he is "dead" on the island...but, Sun was so convincing at the graveside! Of course, if she feels like she will never see him again, he may as well be dead, and she would be just as convincing with her wish that she could see him again. I think he stayed behind so she could get off the island.

I think he dies getting her off the island.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: elise on March 16, 2008, 03:43:46 PM
I say alive on the island and I still don't count Aaron as a survivor of the crash.

Jack, Syaid, Kate, Hurley and Sun...  Jin and Claire would be the 2 that survived but died (and of course its a cover as they are still on the island)
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: matahari on March 16, 2008, 06:55:58 PM
I say alive on the island and I still don't count Aaron as a survivor of the crash.

Jack, Syaid, Kate, Hurley and Sun...  Jin and Claire would be the 2 that survived but died (and of course its a cover as they are still on the island)

Not Claire, then they would know Aaron is not Kate's biological child.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LostAndSeek on March 16, 2008, 08:34:06 PM
In the cover story, Jin died the day of the crash as that's the date on his tombstone. So he's not one of the two.

I'm not convinced that Kate is passing Aaron off as her biological child, but if she is the rest of the 6 and probably several other folks have to be supporting her story. So I don't see why Claire couldn't be one of the 2 in this scenario. Am I missing something?

Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Ralphie on March 16, 2008, 09:01:27 PM
I think Sun BELIEVES Jin is dead, but he really isn't. I think he had to fake a death to be able to come back and not be pursued by Sun's father. He probably would even keep Sun in the dark (for a time) to ensure that people believed he died.

The person who dies (as teased in the promo) has to be Claire.  How else would Kate end up with Aaron? I also believe Jack ends up feeling that he is partly to blame for her death which is why he can't bring himself to see the baby as much as he wants to see Kate in the flashforward.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LostAndSeek on March 16, 2008, 09:37:19 PM
Welcome, Ralphie!

I agree Jack feels guilty about leaving people behind. Certainly that guilt would be exacerbated if Claire dies. And you're not alone in thinking that's how Kate ends up with Aaron.

I don't see any real reason to believe your Jin-Sun conjecture though. It's a cool idea, but is there anything that supports it?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: vickilynn on March 16, 2008, 09:43:25 PM
I think Sun BELIEVES Jin is dead, but he really isn't. I think he had to fake a death to be able to come back and not be pursued by Sun's father. He probably would even keep Sun in the dark (for a time) to ensure that people believed he died.

The person who dies (as teased in the promo) has to be Claire.  How else would Kate end up with Aaron? I also believe Jack ends up feeling that he is partly to blame for her death which is why he can't bring himself to see the baby as much as he wants to see Kate in the flashforward.

I know a lot of people think that Jack won't go see Aaron because of guilt over Claire's death, or leaving her behind, but that just doesn't "feel right" to me...there might be some other reason. Some bigger reason. Perhaps!
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Asmodean on March 16, 2008, 09:56:48 PM
You're probably right!
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on March 16, 2008, 10:54:40 PM
The fact that Hurley shares the belief that Jin is dead undermines the theory that Sun suffered some memory loss due to the pregnancy, treatment for the pregnancy, etc.  That increases the likelihood that Jin is truly dead.

Another question: why didn't any of the other Oceanic 6 join in at the graveside?  In the flashforward timeline, this is the period after the rescue, but before Hurley & Jack lose their marbles.  Must be less than 9 months, if Sun had just given birth.  Obviously Kate was forbidden by the terms of her probation (assuming the wheels of justice had moved quickly).  Sayid was likely busy whacking those on Ben's new list.  Aaron (yes, he's an Oceanic 6) is a tad young to fly without 'Mommy'. That leaves Jack, who still had it together at this point.  Was he too busy playing big shot surgeon at Saint Sebastian to get away for a Lostie reunion?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Sawyers_Gotta_Gun on March 16, 2008, 11:36:15 PM
Maybe Jin faked his death and remarried
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on March 17, 2008, 04:05:26 AM
The fact that Hurley shares the belief that Jin is dead undermines the theory that Sun suffered some memory loss due to the pregnancy, treatment for the pregnancy, etc. 
What evidence do you have to support your theory that Hurley shares her belief?  Just because he showed up?  He's giving emotional support to a grieving friend.  That doesn't mean he shares her belief.  It just means he cares about her feelings and is a shoulder to cry on.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: opgelost on March 17, 2008, 06:37:13 AM
He sais she looks like Jin.
"I guess we should like go see him."
And the next shot is on the cemetary.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: opgelost on March 17, 2008, 06:51:19 AM
Quote
I'm not convinced that Kate is passing Aaron off as her biological child, but if she is the rest of the 6 and probably several other folks have to be supporting her story.

I remember her doing a pregnancytest when she was married with the police officer. It was negative, but the timing could be right to give birth on the island.
But than they would know she was pregnant when captured by Mars.
And there is something wrong with Aaron's age.
I think they are hiding Aaron from the world. That's why Kate wouldn't him to be mentioned in the trial and she doesn't want her mother to see him.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on March 17, 2008, 01:08:54 PM
Hi guys!  I missed the date on the grave, but after seeing that it was the day of the crash...well.... now I know I said Jin was going to die, but since we haven't SEEN that, it could very possibly be that he is alive but had to remain on the island.  Sun could know that, which was why she was calling out his name and all that.  So I voted alive and on the island.  Cover up. 
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LostAndSeek on March 17, 2008, 01:45:16 PM
Welcome back Maggie and LoA! Been a little while, seems like longer!
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: E.S.B. on March 17, 2008, 06:34:04 PM
Here's why I think Jin is really dead:

Sun's poise and dignity was heart-wrenching.  I did not read it as though she is aware he's alive in some other aspect.  Only grief looks like that.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LostAndSeek on March 17, 2008, 07:24:42 PM
I agree the emotional argument is the strongest.

Most Lost viewers wouldn't have noticed the date. So they're with E.S.B. and Lakkie, already grieving. They're gonna feel cheated if Jin survives.

I'm still leaning towards his being alive on the Island, but that may just be 'cause I want him to live!
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on March 17, 2008, 09:23:02 PM
Of the main characters who have died so far, which of them died without us seeing their deaths?  The only one I can think of is Christian, and there's a bit of debate about that one.  We saw how all the others died.  We didn't see how Jin died.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: E.S.B. on March 17, 2008, 11:24:35 PM
Well I still hope he survives, and wouldn't feel cheated if he does!  But I think he dies, unfortunately.  As Laklost pointed out in her eloquent post, they were playing the "grieving" music when Sun was at Jin's grave - the same song that was playing when Charlie died.

The wife and I re-watched tonight and she's still adamant that he's alive on the Island.  So there's always hope!  In fact, she claims the last image of Sun's face shows a glimmer of hope in her eyes.  I mean, we have to believe there are some people still alive on the Island, though presumed dead - otherwise, why would Jack want so badly to go back?!
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: therealsawyer on March 17, 2008, 11:29:27 PM
Alive.  Off Island.  Working for Ben.  Assassin like Sayid.  Made a deal to keep Sun and Ji safe.  Left the island and fell back into his "old habits" except he serves Ben instaed of Mr. Paik. 

Sayid is an assasin, Hurley is in a mental institute, Jack is trying to save everyone, Kate is lying and Sun is alone.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: PrincessLeia on March 18, 2008, 05:00:06 AM
Alive.  Off Island.  Working for Ben.  Assassin like Sayid.  Made a deal to keep Sun and Ji safe.  Left the island and fell back into his "old habits" except he serves Ben instaed of Mr. Paik. 

Sayid is an assasin, Hurley is in a mental institute, Jack is trying to save everyone, Kate is lying and Sun is alone.
Agreed.  Sayid said that he'd never be on the same side as Ben, Jack said he'd never want back on the Island, Kate said that she couldn't be a mom, & Jin said he'd never leave Sun, but this season has taken us through the looking glass.  Everyone seems to be exactly where they weren't "supposed to be."  I think Sun actually believes that Jin is dead for her (& Ji Yeon's) protection.



I've been on the fence about this one for a few days, but hyperform & others have won me over! lol
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Shakey on March 18, 2008, 08:36:37 AM
Alive.  Off Island.  Working for Ben.  Assassin like Sayid.  Made a deal to keep Sun and Ji safe.  Left the island and fell back into his "old habits" except he serves Ben instaed of Mr. Paik. 

Sayid is an assasin, Hurley is in a mental institute, Jack is trying to save everyone, Kate is lying and Sun is alone.
Agreed.  Sayid said that he'd never be on the same side as Ben, Jack said he'd never want back on the Island, Kate said that she couldn't be a mom, & Jin said he'd never leave Sun, but this season has taken us through the looking glass.  Everyone seems to be exactly where they weren't "supposed to be."  I think Sun actually believes that Jin is dead for her (& Ji Yeon's) protection.



I've been on the fence about this one for a few days, but hyperform & others have won me over! lol
Damn.. I voted that Jin was dead, I've posted that I believe Jin is dead.  Now, I've climbed up onto the fence because of this... damn. ???  It would be exactly what the Lost folks would do.. playing with the whole fate/destiny thing.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: kfunk01 on March 18, 2008, 01:27:24 PM
From what I saw I think Jin is dead no matter how much speculation there is that he is still alive.  I think he is dead and died on the island. We know the scene with the panda was a flashback - Jin said he was married for only 2 years - And when you watch the scene at the end you see that she is at his grave site - Why would she go to his grave with the baby and cry like that their - It leads to me thinking he is obviously gone - More question arise for me as to why Hurley is there what drove him to get on another plane.  And was this before or after he went nuts at the big house.... ?? Anyone?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: PrincessLeia on March 18, 2008, 03:08:34 PM
We have seen a faked death on lost before, but I don't know if that means we should find it easy to believe they would do that again OR if it would be too soap opera-ish. :-\ 
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: redcrow1973 on March 18, 2008, 03:27:34 PM
I'm with the "Jin is really dead" crowd.  I can't believe Sun and Hugo would make such a ceremony out of it just to "keep appearances".  The grave marker would suffice for that.  Jin's totally a goner.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Shakey on March 18, 2008, 04:05:23 PM
More question arise for me as to why Hurley is there what drove him to get on another plane.  And was this before or after he went nuts at the big house.... ?? Anyone?
Definitely before he lost it... he made no mention to Sun of wanting to go back to the island... or about the island at all.  He was pretty together in the scene.  When he was in the psych ward, he was all about the island and his belief that they shouldn't have left.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LostAndSeek on March 18, 2008, 06:15:55 PM
I agree with Shakey!
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: surfmadpig on March 18, 2008, 08:06:12 PM
I'm with the "Jin is really dead" crowd.  I can't believe Sun and Hugo would make such a ceremony out of it just to "keep appearances".  The grave marker would suffice for that.  Jin's totally a goner.

I don't believe they'd do it for appearances either. But they never SAID he died, Sun said she misses him, and is desperate. And a fake monument to your husband is as good a place to go to to mourn that he's not with you any more as any other. She went there because she has no means of contacting him (he's still on the island) and ... you know, really misses him.

Then there's the possibility that Sun believes Jin is dead, but he isn't (but can't contact her to tell her so).
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: therealsawyer on March 18, 2008, 10:39:27 PM
From what I saw I think Jin is dead no matter how much speculation there is that he is still alive.  I think he is dead and died on the island. We know the scene with the panda was a flashback - Jin said he was married for only 2 years - And when you watch the scene at the end you see that she is at his grave site - Why would she go to his grave with the baby and cry like that their - It leads to me thinking he is obviously gone - More question arise for me as to why Hurley is there what drove him to get on another plane.  And was this before or after he went nuts at the big house.... ?? Anyone?

In the flashback Jin said he had only been married for two months. 

At first I was upset at the flashback - I thought it was pointless other than as a plot device and I was on to it pretty early, when Jin lost his temper (If you don't blow up when you find out your wife was cheating on you, I wouldn't think you'd lose it over a lost stuffed Panda) - but I think there had to be a deeper meaning i.e. he was doing something similar to what he had been forced to do for Jin's hand.

As for the headstone - I believe that the Oceanic 6 have done nothing but lie since returning.  Sayid lied to his girl, Jack to everyone, Kate about Aaron, Hurley lied to Big Mike.  I think this is the theme of Season 4.  Lies and the consequences that go along with them.  This season everyone is lying to everyone else.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: laklost on March 19, 2008, 03:52:07 PM
I'm with the "Jin is really dead" crowd.  I can't believe Sun and Hugo would make such a ceremony out of it just to "keep appearances".  The grave marker would suffice for that.  Jin's totally a goner.

I don't believe they'd do it for appearances either. But they never SAID he died, Sun said she misses him, and is desperate. And a fake monument to your husband is as good a place to go to to mourn that he's not with you any more as any other. She went there because she has no means of contacting him (he's still on the island) and ... you know, really misses him.

Then there's the possibility that Sun believes Jin is dead, but he isn't (but can't contact her to tell her so).

The fake monument concept is so totally repugnant to me that I can't wrap my head around it.  Who allows a marker to be put up for a loved one WHEN THEY ARE STILL ALIVE!  I'm sorry, but if Hurley and Sun knew Jin was still alive I believe that the writers would have had them have a conversation about how difficult it is to keep lying about what happened - and make it more parallel with Jack and Kate's conversation.  Why go to a tombstone that's been falsely constructed?  I have never heard of such an idea.  What woman or mother would tolerate such a thing?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: cbw420 on March 19, 2008, 03:58:48 PM
I'm with the "Jin is really dead" crowd.  I can't believe Sun and Hugo would make such a ceremony out of it just to "keep appearances".  The grave marker would suffice for that.  Jin's totally a goner.

I don't believe they'd do it for appearances either. But they never SAID he died, Sun said she misses him, and is desperate. And a fake monument to your husband is as good a place to go to to mourn that he's not with you any more as any other. She went there because she has no means of contacting him (he's still on the island) and ... you know, really misses him.

Then there's the possibility that Sun believes Jin is dead, but he isn't (but can't contact her to tell her so).

The fake monument concept is so totally repugnant to me that I can't wrap my head around it.  Who allows a marker to be put up for a loved one WHEN THEY ARE STILL ALIVE!  I'm sorry, but if Hurley and Sun knew Jin was still alive I believe that the writers would have had them have a conversation about how difficult it is to keep lying about what happened - and make it more parallel with Jack and Kate's conversation.  Why go to a tombstone that's been falsely constructed?  I have never heard of such an idea.  What woman or mother would tolerate such a thing?

although i agree with you, to answer this question "What woman or mother would tolerate such a thing?"

a woman who was told that is she doesnt tolerate it, and doesnt keep her mouth shut, that her and her baby will DIE lol
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: laklost on March 19, 2008, 04:01:14 PM
I'm with the "Jin is really dead" crowd.  I can't believe Sun and Hugo would make such a ceremony out of it just to "keep appearances".  The grave marker would suffice for that.  Jin's totally a goner.

I don't believe they'd do it for appearances either. But they never SAID he died, Sun said she misses him, and is desperate. And a fake monument to your husband is as good a place to go to to mourn that he's not with you any more as any other. She went there because she has no means of contacting him (he's still on the island) and ... you know, really misses him.

Then there's the possibility that Sun believes Jin is dead, but he isn't (but can't contact her to tell her so).

The fake monument concept is so totally repugnant to me that I can't wrap my head around it.  Who allows a marker to be put up for a loved one WHEN THEY ARE STILL ALIVE!  I'm sorry, but if Hurley and Sun knew Jin was still alive I believe that the writers would have had them have a conversation about how difficult it is to keep lying about what happened - and make it more parallel with Jack and Kate's conversation.  Why go to a tombstone that's been falsely constructed?  I have never heard of such an idea.  What woman or mother would tolerate such a thing?

although i agree with you, to answer this question "What woman or mother would tolerate such a thing?"

a woman who was told that is she doesnt tolerate it, and doesnt keep her mouth shut, that her and her baby will DIE lol

Point taken.  So have a conversation with Hurley about how difficult the lie is.  Don't go to an unfilled grave and talk as though the person is there.  Totally phoney to me.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: cbw420 on March 19, 2008, 04:03:42 PM
I'm with the "Jin is really dead" crowd.  I can't believe Sun and Hugo would make such a ceremony out of it just to "keep appearances".  The grave marker would suffice for that.  Jin's totally a goner.

I don't believe they'd do it for appearances either. But they never SAID he died, Sun said she misses him, and is desperate. And a fake monument to your husband is as good a place to go to to mourn that he's not with you any more as any other. She went there because she has no means of contacting him (he's still on the island) and ... you know, really misses him.

Then there's the possibility that Sun believes Jin is dead, but he isn't (but can't contact her to tell her so).

The fake monument concept is so totally repugnant to me that I can't wrap my head around it.  Who allows a marker to be put up for a loved one WHEN THEY ARE STILL ALIVE!  I'm sorry, but if Hurley and Sun knew Jin was still alive I believe that the writers would have had them have a conversation about how difficult it is to keep lying about what happened - and make it more parallel with Jack and Kate's conversation.  Why go to a tombstone that's been falsely constructed?  I have never heard of such an idea.  What woman or mother would tolerate such a thing?

although i agree with you, to answer this question "What woman or mother would tolerate such a thing?"

a woman who was told that is she doesnt tolerate it, and doesnt keep her mouth shut, that her and her baby will DIE lol

Point taken.  So have a conversation with Hurley about how difficult the lie is.  Don't go to an unfilled grave and talk as though the person is there.  Totally phoney to me.

ditto, i now have a moot point above lol
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: laklost on March 19, 2008, 04:06:21 PM
Don't let me moot you!  It's just that if Jin isn't dead, that graveside scene was the most manipulative piece of tv shat I've ever seen.  Nothing in me said that was true when I was watching it.  Instead, that gorgeous scene was a genuinely moving elegy to Jin.

Time to cry, people.  He's dead.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: relient k on March 19, 2008, 04:37:41 PM
We know Jin wasn't on the island, so that rules out number 1.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: cbw420 on March 19, 2008, 04:40:19 PM
We know Jin wasn't on the island, so that rules out number 1.

can you elaborate?? how do we know that?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: relient k on March 19, 2008, 04:42:16 PM
Because, we saw him running all over the place looking for a stupid panda, obviously off the island.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: laklost on March 19, 2008, 04:45:38 PM
That was a flashback.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: relient k on March 19, 2008, 04:49:10 PM
You sure it wasn't a forward, cause Sun was pregnant... were they bouncing?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: laklost on March 19, 2008, 04:50:48 PM
If you watch the hospital room when Jin gets there, it's a different woman who they give the panda to.  Plus they said the baby was a boy when we know that Sun had a girl.  It was definitely a FB for Jin and a FF for Sun.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: relient k on March 19, 2008, 04:56:42 PM
OK, this show is confusing.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: cbw420 on March 19, 2008, 05:04:22 PM
OK, this show is confusing.

dvr it, watch it 4 or 5 times, come here read the forum, rethink everything before you post, and it will get less confusing
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: relient k on March 19, 2008, 05:17:29 PM
4 or 5 times?!?! how much time do you think i have?!?
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Sunflower on March 19, 2008, 05:41:04 PM
In the scene where Jin is leaving the hospital he said it was not his child, he had only been married two months.  It was a flashback.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: relient k on March 19, 2008, 05:52:43 PM
Oh, ok, thanx.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: JBRam on March 19, 2008, 05:58:46 PM
He's dead. Sun was too emotional for just talking with an alive Jin. She wouldn't be covering up for Hurley too.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Sunflower on March 19, 2008, 06:20:51 PM
Sun ffwd and Jin ffb...he doesn't make it off the island..it is up for debate whether he is dead or not.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: cbw420 on March 19, 2008, 06:32:05 PM
relient - two questions

#1 - how old are you

#2 - and when did you start watching

(these are serious questions, i'm not poking fun or making a jab at you)
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: TheGoodPeople on March 19, 2008, 06:35:49 PM
These weren't all flash backs by the way, they were bouncin cuz 1, Sun was pregnant, 2 Jin is dead. Unless it was a flash back and Jin didn't really die, and that wasn't Sun givin birth.

this post was more confusing than the entire second season.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: cbw420 on March 19, 2008, 06:38:30 PM
These weren't all flash backs by the way, they were bouncin cuz 1, Sun was pregnant, 2 Jin is dead. Unless it was a flash back and Jin didn't really die, and that wasn't Sun givin birth.

this post was more confusing than the entire second season.

 thats why i asked the questions i did, because of that post!!!! lol
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Medusa on March 25, 2008, 12:36:42 AM
I'm new to the board but I've been watching Lost since first day it aired.  Although I hate to admit it, I think Jin is dead.  Sun didn't cry at the graveyard like she left her husband behind on the island.  She was crying like her husband was really dead. 
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: relient k on March 25, 2008, 04:57:22 PM
relient - two questions

#1 - how old are you

#2 - and when did you start watching

(these are serious questions, i'm not poking fun or making a jab at you)

18. u

Since day 1, FYI

EDIT: I removed the other post because it was confusing people.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: surfmadpig on February 12, 2009, 01:59:46 PM
yay, I was right :bbbbbbbbb
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on February 13, 2009, 06:29:12 AM
Me. too.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LouE68 on February 14, 2009, 02:33:42 AM
i say alive and on the island.
Ditto!
DITTO THAT
For once I have to disagree with Juggy...wow....
Jin is dead...they used the date of the crash for the coverup thats a given...but why would Hurley and Sun go to the grave site...the reason you go to a grave site is in honor and memory of a desceased person...if he was/is alive on the island she could reflect on Jin in a photo or something at home...
OK OK I was wrong, but he wasn't alive on the island ;) he was alive floating adrift first lol
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: JBRam on March 08, 2009, 10:52:12 PM
I was wrong. Oops. Win One for the Reaper.
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LostinLock on May 13, 2009, 06:42:47 AM
Funny - a season later and our man is still jumping and kicking!  The wonder of TV
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Asmodean on May 14, 2009, 11:38:25 PM
I think this thread's run it's course.

Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LostinLock on May 15, 2009, 10:34:10 AM
No wait it can become the new Kelvin thread.  Hmmm Juggy might close this now ;)
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: Asmodean on May 15, 2009, 10:59:45 AM
Well if he did, I would agree with him. :)
Title: Re: Poll: Is Jin dead?
Post by: LostinLock on May 15, 2009, 03:38:28 PM
Well if he did, I would agree with him. :)

We must note this for posterity amongst other things ;)