Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 4 => Episode 4x06 => Topic started by: tonysee200x on March 07, 2008, 12:35:48 AM

Title: Chemical power plant?
Post by: tonysee200x on March 07, 2008, 12:35:48 AM
After years of speculation on how they may be supplying power to the island (remember Ben saying something like, it was a rat running on a tread mill?  :D) we get an answer.

But does it make sense?

What kind of Chemical reaction could be providing the amount of power that would be required to power what we have seen on the island?
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: jugdish on March 07, 2008, 12:38:49 AM
Was it really a power plant? THought that was a lie. Didn't they say he used it to poison the Dharma people during the purge.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Fenster on March 07, 2008, 12:39:55 AM
Yeah, I don't think it's a power plant either. 
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: tonysee200x on March 07, 2008, 12:42:40 AM
Hmm, you are probable right.

I took it as, it was the power plant for the island that runs on some kind of chemical, but if the chemical was released it was dangurous and could cause the purge..

Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: *MaZ* on March 07, 2008, 12:45:44 AM
Hmm, you are probable right.

I took it as, it was the power plant for the island that runs on some kind of chemical, but if the chemical was released it was dangurous and could cause the purge..


It's the chemical that created the giant mutant hamsters!  ;D
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: LouE68 on March 07, 2008, 12:52:29 AM
I think there could be any number of chemicals working in a plant...even a power station...its a far stretch to compare it to an oil refinery, but those refineries also have their own generation stations...any number of chemicals could be on hand..I know forms of acid and cyanide are used in the refining processes...so I think it could still be something like that...but I'm sure we'll find out more soon....
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: hyperform on March 07, 2008, 12:55:16 AM
on a second watch, i paused just as juliet enters the lower level behind daniel and she walks by a machine with a bunch of buttons, and on the top of it says "box maker". what the hell does that mean? production error? or something interesting.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Maxor127 on March 07, 2008, 01:05:41 AM
They stole it from Locke's old job.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: LouE68 on March 07, 2008, 01:06:01 AM
A better question, is how did it get set to overload?
and how did they(C&D) know?
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: hefalumps on March 07, 2008, 01:33:26 AM
on a second watch, i paused just as juliet enters the lower level behind daniel and she walks by a machine with a bunch of buttons, and on the top of it says "box maker". what the hell does that mean? production error? or something interesting.

Did it really? That's what Ben called the place where Locke's Dad came from - I don't remember the exact line, but he definitely told Locke there was a "box" on the island where things appeared... ugh, wish I had the exact quote.

And it's a funny allusion to Locke's box company job too.

I'll go see if I can dig up a transcript. The "box maker" reference may be nothing, or it may just be an egg, but it's interesting nonetheless.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: hefalumps on March 07, 2008, 01:39:13 AM
A better question, is how did it get set to overload?
and how did they(C&D) know?

Some people seem to think Ben managed to cause the overload (like the same way he however "summoned" Harper or the image of Harper to tell Juliet what to do), but I disagree. While Ben may have somehow had something to do with Harper's mysterious, whispering appearance to Juliet and Jack, I don't think he caused the overload. I think it's more reasonable that the chemical plant had some kind of failsafe to prevent someone from doing exactly what Dan and Charlotte were trying to do - neutralize the gas and render it inert. I think when Dan tried to neutralize the gas, it triggered the failsafe that would've released the gas if he hadn't been able to disable the failsafe in time.

So that's my theory.

I still wish I could figure out Harper's appearance. I feel like it was a manifestation of Juliet's conscience. Maybe Ben told her long ago that these people would be coming and that she'd have to do whatever she could to stop them, and the manifestation of Harper was just the island reminding her what her conscience knew. We've seen the island manifest a lot of people, and a lot of them seemed to be related to something in the individual's conscience. And just because Jack saw her doesn't mean anything. As someone else pointed out, both Shannon and Sayid saw the manifestation of Walt just before Shannon was shot, but of course Walt manifestations might be completely separate from the other island manifestations.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: LouE68 on March 07, 2008, 01:44:58 AM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/LouE247/boxbagujuliet.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/LouE247/boxmaker.jpg)
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: jumbotron on March 07, 2008, 02:56:35 AM
Funny how Daniel didn't notice that EMERGENCY SHUTOFF SWITCH, would have been much faster than all that computer work.   :P
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: TheGoodPeople on March 07, 2008, 03:05:24 AM
(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/LouE247/boxbagujuliet.jpg)

(http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o116/LouE247/boxmaker.jpg)



thats curious
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: tonysee200x on March 07, 2008, 10:32:43 AM
Kind of funny that Daniel can't remember three cards, but is very skilled at using a 1975ish computer to shut down a overload in a chemical plant that is unique to an island that no one has seen before.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: jugdish on March 07, 2008, 10:35:46 AM
I believe the overload started when Daniel started trying to disable the chemicals. His attempts started the overload.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Austruck on March 07, 2008, 10:46:46 AM
Yeah, that's the only thing that makes sense. Ben wouldn't release a gas like that while he himself was also vulnerable to it. He doesn't seem to want everyone on the island to be killed -- just maybe a specific person here and there.  :)
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: hefalumps on March 07, 2008, 11:06:15 AM
Kind of funny that Daniel can't remember three cards, but is very skilled at using a 1975ish computer to shut down a overload in a chemical plant that is unique to an island that no one has seen before.

I'm fairly convinced that Daniel has done some Desmond-time-hopping of his own since he was exposed to so much radiation during all his tests ("What do you put on your head, brother?") and that explains:

1) Why Desmond can be his constant. I don't think their brief interaction in Desmond's alternate 1996 could be enough to make Desmond "special" enough to Daniel to be Daniel's constant. Maybe they interacted in one of Daniel's time trips and became close enough that he could be his constant, and that's why he made the note in his journal. I still don't think Daniel "remembers" Desmond visiting him in 1996 - I believe that happened in an alternate timeline and that Desmond's trip to 1996 didn't change the current timeline we're in.

2) Why Daniel has trouble remembering. During Desmond's episode, there were lot of quotes like "It's not amnesia" and "Maybe you just forgot - how would that happen?" in reference to Desmond's 1996 mind not remembering anything from 2004 and Daniel on the island not remembering Desmond from 1996. Maybe the time-jumping of the mind screws with the ability to make memories. But things you knew from a long time ago are probably in tact.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Austruck on March 07, 2008, 11:19:14 AM
Wow, this is suddenly making me want to go re-watch the movie "Memento."  :D
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: hefalumps on March 07, 2008, 11:26:44 AM
Wow, this is suddenly making me want to go re-watch the movie "Memento."  :D

I guess I haven't told you about my condition... :)
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: JBRam on March 07, 2008, 11:26:58 AM
In order for Daniel to make the chemicals inert, he had to mix them. If you read the printout of what was on the screen, that seems fairly obvious. Opening the first valve would mix the two potent chemicals to a point where an explosion and release of poison gas is inevitable. He then had to mix another chemical in with it to render it inert. That was what the problem was... the second valve wouldn't respond to him (to make the show more intense as the timer counts down, no doubt).

It was probably some sort of chemical power plant... doesn't seem too improbable. Mixing chemicals together can cause enormous amounts of energy. The trick is in harnessing that energy and converting it into something useful. If they could do that, then it is possible that they could power the island easily by that.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: *MaZ* on March 07, 2008, 11:32:59 AM
Does that mean that from now on there's no more power in the island?
If Faraday rendered the chemicals inert, does that mean they don't produce energy anymore?
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: tonysee200x on March 07, 2008, 11:33:30 AM
In order for Daniel to make the chemicals inert, he had to mix them. If you read the printout of what was on the screen, that seems fairly obvious. Opening the first valve would mix the two potent chemicals to a point where an explosion and release of poison gas is inevitable. He then had to mix another chemical in with it to render it inert. That was what the problem was... the second valve wouldn't respond to him (to make the show more intense as the timer counts down, no doubt).

It was probably some sort of chemical power plant... doesn't seem too improbable. Mixing chemicals together can cause enormous amounts of energy. The trick is in harnessing that energy and converting it into something useful. If they could do that, then it is possible that they could power the island easily by that.

So if this is true, has the island just lost all power?
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: hefalumps on March 07, 2008, 11:43:24 AM
Does that mean that from now on there's no more power in the island?
If Faraday rendered the chemicals inert, does that mean they don't produce energy anymore?

It looked like the station still at least had emergency lighting when Jack and Juliet were embracing at the end. Maybe there were other chemicals in that plant that provide the power for the island and Daniel was just working to neutralize the ones that could be used to poison and kill everyone on the island. I can't imagine the whole island would lose power.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Staggerlee on March 07, 2008, 11:58:37 AM
In the "for whom the bell tolls" flash back with Juliet and her now bloated BF, did he not say something about his importance of pressing a button at that power station and about venting gas?

Maybe the thing needed to be taken care of and some how feighty's knew this, because no one was around to take care of it since the others took off...
another "or": Charlotte's "We're saving your lives" speech with the gun in her face was just yet another cover...they really did something else...
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on March 07, 2008, 12:17:18 PM
They are taking down the island defense systems so that when the rest of the freighter crew comes and or others they don't have to worry about this. C & D are going about the set plan for the freighter crew and Widmore. But do they know about SMOKEY?
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Point Place WI on March 07, 2008, 01:02:20 PM
Good thinking Detroit like your style.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Britigger on March 07, 2008, 02:17:14 PM
They are taking down the island defense systems so that when the rest of the freighter crew comes and or others they don't have to worry about this. C & D are going about the set plan for the freighter crew and Widmore. But do they know about SMOKEY?

Great thinking! They spent a lot of time convincing us this week that the freighties are good and Ben bad. Interstingly, the Ben/Goodwin/Juliet storyline with Ben sending Goodwin behind "enemy" lines so to speak is very reminiscent of David in the Bible sending Bathsheba's husband, Uriah, into battles in hopes of getting him killed so he could have Bathsheba.
How does this connect? Well, this obviously very very bad behavior and yet ultimately David repents and is described as a man after God's own heart.....one of the good people.
Was this a foreshadowing of the fact that Ben really "good" in the end even though seems bad now.....a favorite twist of the writers.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Asmodean on March 07, 2008, 03:17:27 PM
Wow, this is suddenly making me want to go re-watch the movie "Memento."  :D

AAAAAYYYYYY!  Just had a flahback of having to watch this in a hangar in U.A.E. while it was 140 degrees.  It was our only video.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: LostAndSeek on March 07, 2008, 10:04:57 PM
Wow! I agree with almost everything in this thread!

Dan and Charlotte rendered the Tempest's supply of poison gas inert which looks like a good thing. At least it's one less threat for our Losties to face.

It does take away one of Ben's/Jacob's/The Island's means of defense. But if the defense is to poison gas anybody who visits.... Well, let's just say I'm not sympathetic with that view....

Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: matahari on March 11, 2008, 04:57:58 PM
on a second watch, i paused just as juliet enters the lower level behind daniel and she walks by a machine with a bunch of buttons, and on the top of it says "box maker". what the hell does that mean? production error? or something interesting.

Did it really? That's what Ben called the place where Locke's Dad came from - I don't remember the exact line, but he definitely told Locke there was a "box" on the island where things appeared... ugh, wish I had the exact quote.

And it's a funny allusion to Locke's box company job too.

I'll go see if I can dig up a transcript. The "box maker" reference may be nothing, or it may just be an egg, but it's interesting nonetheless.

Ben needs to get Locke a DHARMA jumpsuit that says Box Maker. HAHA

I was wondering what chemical produces power also. We know that the Tempest had a vapor overload. Do they rely on chemical vapor, like a steam engine? I always assumed it was powered by electro-magnetic radiation that had somehow been harnessed.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Staggerlee on March 11, 2008, 05:51:45 PM
perchance power plant is just a ruse?
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on March 11, 2008, 07:49:34 PM
It was said by Harper that they were headed for the power station, so I would say that the Tempest is a power plant to run the island. The power plant uses chemicals (not known) instead of coal or nuclear. The intresting point about the Tempest is that one chemical that is used to "power" the island alone is dangerous enough to kill in a gas form. The chemicals used together make a reaction that cause the form of "power". D & C lied once again and it was done to deactivate the islands defense systems for when the freighter crew or others storm the island for the take over.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: LostAndSeek on March 11, 2008, 08:03:45 PM
Well, it would have been harder to convince Juliet and Jack to do anything if she'd said Dan and Char were headed to the poison gas factory to deactivate the gas.

I don't know whether it's a power station or not, but I don't think we can trust Miss Harper.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: LouE68 on March 11, 2008, 10:18:30 PM
according to Podcast
The Other Woman - What is the use of the Tempest? Are the hatches important?
D&C: They joke about the Arrow hatch, but confirm that they all have some importance and that the Tempest is a very important hatch on the island. This episode was their way of telling us about some of the island's history via Juliet's past on the island. To show us how the Dharma Initative was potentially gassed. Dharma was working on Biological weapons, but are not necessarily bad.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Asmodean on March 11, 2008, 10:23:48 PM
Bet you a soda that the Orchid is behind a secret door in the Arrow.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: matahari on March 12, 2008, 12:56:00 AM
I'll take your soda and raise you one!
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Shoeless on March 12, 2008, 01:36:26 AM
Two unrelated thoughts:
After years of speculation on how they may be supplying power to the island (remember Ben saying something like, it was a rat running on a tread mill?  :D) we get an answer.

I thought he said it was a hamster   ???

Hamster Power!! (http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Image:Benpainting3.jpg)

Was it really a power plant? THought that was a lie. Didn't they say he used it to poison the Dharma people during the purge.

Wasn't there a discussion/theory/coverup about the government doing testing and dropping stuff/chemicals/drugs into the subway system in N.Y. and/or other places?  (years and years and years ago - yes, I'm asking the Ancient Ones to help me out here)  :P
Just wondering about the capabilities Ben (or whomever) might have if the chemicals are portable and he has access to time travel . . . possibly what DHARMA had begun to study?

*heads back into jungle looking for shoes, but wearing cool shades*   8)

Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Walkabout on March 12, 2008, 08:36:51 AM
according to Podcast
The Other Woman - What is the use of the Tempest? Are the hatches important?
D&C: They joke about the Arrow hatch, but confirm that they all have some importance and that the Tempest is a very important hatch on the island. This episode was their way of telling us about some of the island's history via Juliet's past on the island. To show us how the Dharma Initative was potentially gassed. Dharma was working on Biological weapons, but are not necessarily bad.

What is not bad? The biological weapons or DHARMA? If I remember correctly, from the original Oceanic Air site, I read a screen cap in which the NSA sent a letter to the TSA saying cease looking for 815 because the presumed area the plane went down was related to National Security work/testing in that region.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Asmodean on March 12, 2008, 09:50:51 AM
I'll take your soda and raise you one!

It's a deal!
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: SQUIRT199 on March 12, 2008, 04:44:55 PM
Kind of funny that Daniel can't remember three cards, but is very skilled at using a 1975ish computer to shut down a overload in a chemical plant that is unique to an island that no one has seen before.

I'm fairly convinced that Daniel has done some Desmond-time-hopping of his own since he was exposed to so much radiation during all his tests ("What do you put on your head, brother?") and that explains:

1) Why Desmond can be his constant. I don't think their brief interaction in Desmond's alternate 1996 could be enough to make Desmond "special" enough to Daniel to be Daniel's constant. Maybe they interacted in one of Daniel's time trips and became close enough that he could be his constant, and that's why he made the note in his journal. I still don't think Daniel "remembers" Desmond visiting him in 1996 - I believe that happened in an alternate timeline and that Desmond's trip to 1996 didn't change the current timeline we're in.

2) Why Daniel has trouble remembering. During Desmond's episode, there were lot of quotes like "It's not amnesia" and "Maybe you just forgot - how would that happen?" in reference to Desmond's 1996 mind not remembering anything from 2004 and Daniel on the island not remembering Desmond from 1996. Maybe the time-jumping of the mind screws with the ability to make memories. But things you knew from a long time ago are probably in tact.


Why Desmond can be his constant.

Why couldnt desmond be his constant,  if I were a scientist and somone came back from the future and gave me the exact settings that I was unable to discover myself,  that would make Des pretty special in my eyes,

What I noticed from the episode "constant" was that Des was not "OK" until he actually spoke to penny, even though he knew she existed in 2004 he was not set straight untill thier conversation,  We know that because right after he made contact with her he told her about the Island and until that point was adamant he was in 1996

I think (it has not been shown so much) that daniel is now "ok/ perfect" now also,  But not until he saw desmonds name in his journal,  oncde he saw desmonds name it straightened him out so to speak,  I dont claim to know how or why the writers would send the story this way  and I cant say I like it or can explain it, but I hope it is revealed sooner rather than later
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Staggerlee on March 12, 2008, 05:14:13 PM
I agree squirt, Danny Boy might just be ok now, the little we saw of him in this past epi did not really show one way or another...
but I hope and it seems as though he will be okay,

does this mean he is now going to see the light if'n he is workin' on the bad side o' the track?

what comes, what comes from pro'ly my fav character to be added thus far....?
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Shoeless on March 12, 2008, 06:00:42 PM
I agree squirt, Danny Boy might just be ok now, the little we saw of him in this past epi did not really show one way or another...
but I hope and it seems as though he will be okay,

does this mean he is now going to see the light if'n he is workin' on the bad side o' the track?

what comes, what comes from pro'ly my fav character to be added thus far....?

*nods, agreeing with Staggerlee*  :D
I'm wondering if there's going to be a showdown between Charlotte (booo) and Daniel (sees the light and does the right thing)??   ::)
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Staggerlee on March 12, 2008, 06:16:23 PM
A showdown would prove interesting, though i would like to see her stick around a bit, no nikki stuff with her please!
We need another face of an antagonist, and with all the ballyhoo (did i really use that word!!! what am i like 80 or something?)
regarding her name and what not which may or may not amount to anything. Ben and Widdy are good antagonists, but another face is needed, yes we have Harper,
(no pun is intended there...MOLE!!!! ok I really will stop now....) regardless Char's story could lead in some fascinating directions, some hinted at around here (her history w/ the island, her purpose etc.).

Dan's trajectory seems really most interesting, in regards the true science being referenced within the show, and him being sane might answer a few questions, though insane will be missed...
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: Shoeless on March 12, 2008, 06:57:56 PM
Yes, I can see Char and Danny kind of see-sawing for a bit to keep us on our toes (refrains from puns about four-toed whazzits).

Is there a good Char/bad Char, kinda like we felt about Ben for awhile (well some did).

And Danny may waffle with being in touch with reality for a bit ... seemed like there was something more when Juliet confronted him ... besides recognition after landing on the island.  Can't wait to find out who was making his dinner in the flashforward.   :o

*wonders if Ballyhoo is a reference to Bali Hai*
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: BobBX542 on March 10, 2009, 04:43:47 PM
Apparently, Ben was not lying after all...

http://www.geekologie.com/2009/03/post_72.php
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: hyperform on March 10, 2009, 04:46:14 PM
wow, maybe you should have posted this in the Man From Tallahassee thread, cuz that is when he said the line about the hamsters.
Title: Re: Chemical power plant?
Post by: BobBX542 on March 10, 2009, 04:47:09 PM
indeed I will...

Or not, I couldn't find the topic about the power source, so I'll just leave it here. Doesn't really matter to me, I just found the article.