Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 4 => Episode 4x05 => Topic started by: FeelLikeANut on February 28, 2008, 11:24:02 PM

Title: Dude, that sucked
Post by: FeelLikeANut on February 28, 2008, 11:24:02 PM
We've been waiting 2-3 years for something definitive about the island, and we get time travel?!

And for a climax, we cured a brain aneurysm with a phone call???
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: *MaZ* on February 28, 2008, 11:27:40 PM
I don't think it sucked at all. It wasn't a brain aneurysm, it was the brain collapsing with the back and forth and not being able to deal with it.
The constant (in this case Penny), helped Desmond's mind make sense of it and snap back to present time.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: FeelLikeANut on February 28, 2008, 11:31:18 PM
Quote
...it was the brain collapsing with the back and forth and not being able to deal with it.
Oh, my bad. I mistook that for something contrived.  ::)
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Blackrock Bob on February 28, 2008, 11:33:55 PM
I got so upset at the first Time Travel episode I deleted my account on this website for the second time.
They went there with Des in Flashes and this time there was no Crazy Lady telling Des he had to go to the Island. As far as way out episodes
this was tame.

I think this is the best episode of Lost. Des and Penny connected through time. I can't think of a better story. Love of Penny is Des's constant.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: JBRam on February 28, 2008, 11:35:19 PM
I agree with BRB. I'm seriously considering whether or not this is the best LOST epi yet.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Staggerlee on February 28, 2008, 11:36:19 PM
We've been waiting 2-3 years for something definitive about the island, and we get time travel?!

And for a climax, we cured a brain aneurysm with a phone call???


step out of the box....there is a vast, immense I might say, world of ideas....floating

............................................around.......



..........out................here.


what did Faraday mutter about "paradox" when he first met Des
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: anavrin on February 28, 2008, 11:41:22 PM
Oh come now, this is but a glimmer of what is going on on that island.  There are still a million questions which we may or may not ever get answered.  Here are a mere 9.

Who built the big 4-toed statue?
Was the time-thing going on when Dharma first got there?
Why are they looking for Ben?
What's the deal with polar bears, Jacob, and BigSmokey?
How do some of the rest of them get off the island?
And what happens to those who don't?
What does Oceanic have to do with this, such that there's a big coverup?
Where are they (really) in time?
What happens to those who die on the island?
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: madmax22e on February 28, 2008, 11:47:33 PM
this is the first time they have actually made "traveling to and from the island" the main character of the story. Locke isnt "one" with the island, Desmond is. If you want to know the island, look at des.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Lostfanchrim on February 28, 2008, 11:50:46 PM
Oh come now, this is but a glimmer of what is going on on that island.  There are still a million questions which we may or may not ever get answered.  Here are a mere 9.

Who built the big 4-toed statue?
Was the time-thing going on when Dharma first got there?
Why are they looking for Ben?
What's the deal with polar bears, Jacob, and BigSmokey?
How do some of the rest of them get off the island?
And what happens to those who don't?
What does Oceanic have to do with this, such that there's a big coverup?
Where are they (really) in time?
What happens to those who die on the island?

Whatever the answers are they all seem to be connected to electrmagnetism. The island is rich in that!!! That's why Hanso/Dharma has been doing their research/expiriments on the isalnd and why the island is so important. Oceanic may have been an accident due to Des not pushing the button in time but, it has to be covered up to protect the integrity of the island. The question is, WHO orchestrated the cover-up? Who works for who and are they working against each other? Ben sure went to great lengths to protect/hide the island from these people on the freighter and whoever they work for; even finding and putting a mole on the boat. A lot of people seem to want to help the Oceanic survivors so, they look to be caught in the middle of all of this "Big Company" warfare that's going on over use/occupancy of the island.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: JBRam on February 28, 2008, 11:52:56 PM
Oh come now, this is but a glimmer of what is going on on that island.  There are still a million questions which we may or may not ever get answered.  Here are a mere 9.

Who built the big 4-toed statue?
Was the time-thing going on when Dharma first got there?
Why are they looking for Ben?
What's the deal with polar bears, Jacob, and BigSmokey?
How do some of the rest of them get off the island?
And what happens to those who don't?
What does Oceanic have to do with this, such that there's a big coverup?
Where are they (really) in time? This one hasn't changed yet. They are in 2004. Des called Penny on Dec 24th, 2004. He predicted it 8 yrs previous.
What happens to those who die on the island?
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Staggerlee on February 29, 2008, 12:06:55 AM
did it not seem that Ben knew the plane was going to crash before it did?
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: madmax22e on February 29, 2008, 12:07:53 AM
this thread is all over the place.

now we are talking about season 3?!
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Savior on February 29, 2008, 12:09:32 AM
thread title dsnt really limit the discussion.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: JBRam on February 29, 2008, 12:16:01 AM
did it not seem that Ben knew the plane was going to crash before it did?
It did not.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Staggerlee on February 29, 2008, 12:23:15 AM
did it not seem that Ben knew the plane was going to crash before it did?
It did not.

thank ya mucho, got an' ol' man's memory....
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: JBRam on February 29, 2008, 12:28:18 AM
At least it did not make me think of that... some conspirators believe that Ben was already looking up at the sky before we saw the plane, but I just think he was reacting to the loud noises from above.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Bostonlost on February 29, 2008, 12:34:52 AM
Funny one man's trash.....I thought it was one of the greatest episode's ever
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: TheGoodPeople on February 29, 2008, 12:40:07 AM
Personally i think this was one of the better episodes we have seen in a while. probably the best of the season.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Staggerlee on February 29, 2008, 12:44:00 AM
Personally i think this was one of the better episodes we have seen in a while. probably the best of the season.

quite so agree with ya, on that one, answers galore, and a few new intriguing questions...
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: *MaZ* on February 29, 2008, 12:50:44 AM
Funny one man's trash.....I thought it was one of the greatest episode's ever
I think you nailed it on the ONE. Everybody else seems to think it was great!;)
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: DizzyIzzy on February 29, 2008, 07:31:27 AM
Quote
...it was the brain collapsing with the back and forth and not being able to deal with it.
Oh, my bad. I mistook that for something contrived.  ::)

I agree.  I mentioned to my husband who is a fan of sci-fi about half way through the show that I was losing interest in Lost as a story for the second time (I hated Flashes...sorry) and wished I'd just not watched The Constant since I had a hunch it would be the time travel stuff all over again.  He said he felt time travel worked best when the whole story takes place in the future... making it easier for people like me to find it more acceptable since the complete story is sci fi in nature.  It's all fiction mind you and I understand the difference since, but this episode just left me cold.  I'm not confused, just disappointed. 

Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: FeelLikeANut on February 29, 2008, 09:07:42 AM
I think Writers_Strike disliked it too. As he said, "Phone call = fixed time traveling just ruined it for me."
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: casino on February 29, 2008, 09:44:24 AM
I think Writers_Strike disliked it too. As he said, "Phone call = fixed time traveling just ruined it for me."

I actually thought this was one of the best parts of the "time travel" line, and people who don't like time travel should be happy about it because, along with only being able to transport one's consciousness,  it limits the use of time travel in the show. Think about it: No "future Des meets past Des and warns him about something," or "past Des goes into the future and has to hide from future Des to keep from freaking him out" stuff to deal with, and these are two of the major time travel cliches.  Also, they just can't travel willy-nilly through time, because if they don't have "the Constant" to anchor them in both places, their brain eventually explodes.  That keeps them from doing stupid stuff like going back and trying to stop WWII or something.  I think they have placed enough limits on it to make it an interesting part of the show but not the solution to every mystery on the show.

I thought the phone call thing was very creative.  I also think the "Constant" idea shows just where they are with time travel at that point.  Basically, they can start the process of sending your consciousness back and forth, but they don't have the process dialed in so well that they can stop it from flipping back and forth until it explodes your brain, so you have to establish some highly emotional connection in each time period to anchor that part of your consciousness there, giving it a waypoint to find it's way back to after it's been flipping around through time. 

Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: jugdish on February 29, 2008, 09:50:02 AM
this is the first time they have actually made "traveling to and from the island" the main character of the story. Locke isnt "one" with the island, Desmond is. If you want to know the island, look at des.

Des did not travel to and from the island. First of all he was not on the island. THis had to do with the effects of traveling from the island, in getting away from it. Second Des did not travel, but his conscious did.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Staggerlee on February 29, 2008, 10:08:00 AM
this is the first time they have actually made "traveling to and from the island" the main character of the story. Locke isnt "one" with the island, Desmond is. If you want to know the island, look at des.

Des did not travel to and from the island. First of all he was not on the island. THis had to do with the effects of traveling from the island, in getting away from it. Second Des did not travel, but his conscious did.

Keep preaching it, keep preaching it...hopefully it will catch on....like Christianity....with out the blood shed etc.......
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Madam P on February 29, 2008, 10:08:28 AM
this is the first time they have actually made "traveling to and from the island" the main character of the story. Locke isnt "one" with the island, Desmond is. If you want to know the island, look at des.

Des did not travel to and from the island. First of all he was not on the island. THis had to do with the effects of traveling from the island, in getting away from it. Second Des did not travel, but his conscious did.

Well, he did travel some -- he travelled from the island in the helicopter, where they encountered (something? did lightning actually strike them?) which triggered the "travelling" of his consciousness.  I got the impression that if he hadn't travelled from the island (going through that thunderhead or whatever it was), that he wouldn't have done the time-travel.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: jugdish on February 29, 2008, 10:13:15 AM
this is the first time they have actually made "traveling to and from the island" the main character of the story. Locke isnt "one" with the island, Desmond is. If you want to know the island, look at des.

Des did not travel to and from the island. First of all he was not on the island. THis had to do with the effects of traveling from the island, in getting away from it. Second Des did not travel, but his conscious did.

Well, he did travel some -- he travelled from the island in the helicopter, where they encountered (something? did lightning actually strike them?) which triggered the "travelling" of his consciousness.  I got the impression that if he hadn't travelled from the island (going through that thunderhead or whatever it was), that he wouldn't have done the time-travel.

They explained it on the episodes. Daniel asked Jack and Juliet if Desmond had recently been exposed to a larfe magnetic source. He had when he turned the failsafe key. The pilot could not keep the exact path because of the storm, so Desmond was affected by not staying on the exact path and being in the hatch implosion. Yes the traveling from the island triggered it.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Staggerlee on February 29, 2008, 10:14:03 AM
I think Writers_Strike disliked it too. As he said, "Phone call = fixed time traveling just ruined it for me."

I actually thought this was one of the best parts of the "time travel" line, and people who don't like time travel should be happy about it because, along with only being able to transport one's consciousness,  it limits the use of time travel in the show. Think about it: No "future Des meets past Des and warns him about something," or "past Des goes into the future and has to hide from future Des to keep from freaking him out" stuff to deal with, and these are two of the major time travel cliches.  Also, they just can't travel willy-nilly through time, because if they don't have "the Constant" to anchor them in both places, their brain eventually explodes.  That keeps them from doing stupid stuff like going back and trying to stop WWII or something.  I think they have placed enough limits on it to make it an interesting part of the show but not the solution to every mystery on the show.

I thought the phone call thing was very creative.  I also think the "Constant" idea shows just where they are with time travel at that point.  Basically, they can start the process of sending your consciousness back and forth, but they don't have the process dialed in so well that they can stop it from flipping back and forth until it explodes your brain, so you have to establish some highly emotional connection in each time period to anchor that part of your consciousness there, giving it a waypoint to find it's way back to after it's been flipping around through time. 




now say this so a 2nd grader can get it...

sorry do not mean to be mean....it is just that the explanation is simple...."everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler."
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: surfmadpig on February 29, 2008, 11:49:30 AM
I agree with some of the people above: best lost episode EVER.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: lostfan777 on February 29, 2008, 12:16:53 PM
I'm in between.  I thought the episode was well done, but I don't like the way the story has gone.  I don't get that Des was fine after speaking to Penny.  Does this mean that this condition can only happen to folks who are lost at sea and not able to reach their loved ones???  In other words, if someone like Shannon and Boone had been subjected to the same conditions as Des, wouldn't they never have known they were affected because they were always in contact with their 'constant', who it seems just needs to be someone or something the person cares about?  Sounds too cheesy for a scientific explanation to me. 

Also, as I posted elsewhere, they CANNOT avoid the contradictions of time travel.  They state the future cannot be changed, but had Des not gone back, even if only in his consciousness, Daniel would not have posted that entry in his journal and he would have spent that afternoon teaching his rat the new maze instead of experimenting on it and ultimately killing it.  Future altered!  Period!  And those were just a couple of small ripples.  If it were possible to go back in time it would be impossible not to change the future.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: lostfan777 on February 29, 2008, 12:19:18 PM
One other complaint, if only their consciousness can travel through time, how did the bunny in the Orchid video (which TPTB have said will be included in the show) end up in the same place at the same time twice?
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Blackrock Bob on February 29, 2008, 12:48:53 PM
One other complaint, if only their consciousness can travel through time, how did the bunny in the Orchid video (which TPTB have said will be included in the show) end up in the same place at the same time twice?

The orchid isn't cannon. If we see it, then hopefully we'll get real answers about it. I am not sure if the energy at the orchid is the same as what Desmond experienced at the Swan and what Daniel used on the mouse.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Staggerlee on February 29, 2008, 01:14:49 PM
might be the force used to trigger....mouse+radiation=death quick....

des+freaky magneto-storm+VioletLight&hum=go mad, die slow till constant found

two bunnies....as yet unnamed force.....
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Staggerlee on February 29, 2008, 01:26:02 PM
mssr Blackrock, he may be dead...but there is something about Kelvin.....kind of like there was something about mary, just different and not really related.....damn, i tripped on another Singularity....
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Madam P on February 29, 2008, 02:18:47 PM
They explained it on the episodes. Daniel asked Jack and Juliet if Desmond had recently been exposed to a larfe magnetic source. He had when he turned the failsafe key. The pilot could not keep the exact path because of the storm, so Desmond was affected by not staying on the exact path and being in the hatch implosion. Yes the traveling from the island triggered it.

Now that's interesting!  I thought the pilot DID stay on the exact path, and that the "storm" was part of the "island defense system" or something -- that they HAD to go through the "storm" in order to make it through the worm-hole or whatever...  but that yes, Desmond was affected while others were not because of his exposure to the electromagnetism from the failsafe incident.  I thought that going through the storm was part of staying on-course.  (I love this forum -- so many different ideas and takes on stuff!)

One other complaint, if only their consciousness can travel through time, how did the bunny in the Orchid video (which TPTB have said will be included in the show) end up in the same place at the same time twice?

Good question.  Maybe Bunny 15 was just a fluke, freak accident that they haven't managed to replicate yet?  Or maybe they can do it with animals but not humans?  Faraday's rat Eloise only travelled in her consciousness apparently, so maybe it's something special with the island's properties that only there can the entire creature be transported.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Staggerlee on February 29, 2008, 02:41:10 PM
They explained it on the episodes. Daniel asked Jack and Juliet if Desmond had recently been exposed to a larfe magnetic source. He had when he turned the failsafe key. The pilot could not keep the exact path because of the storm, so Desmond was affected by not staying on the exact path and being in the hatch implosion. Yes the traveling from the island triggered it.

Now that's interesting!  I thought the pilot DID stay on the exact path, and that the "storm" was part of the "island defense system" or something -- that they HAD to go through the "storm" in order to make it through the worm-hole or whatever...  but that yes, Desmond was affected while others were not because of his exposure to the electromagnetism from the failsafe incident.  I thought that going through the storm was part of staying on-course.  (I love this forum -- so many different ideas and takes on stuff!)

One other complaint, if only their consciousness can travel through time, how did the bunny in the Orchid video (which TPTB have said will be included in the show) end up in the same place at the same time twice?

Good question.  Maybe Bunny 15 was just a fluke, freak accident that they haven't managed to replicate yet?  Or maybe they can do it with animals but not humans?  Faraday's rat Eloise only travelled in her consciousness apparently, so maybe it's something special with the island's properties that only there can the entire creature be transported.
bunny travelled on the island right? maybe only on the island "bodies" can travel....hmmmm

"(I love this forum -- so many different ideas and takes on stuff!)"

That, madam p, is the essence, i echo your words!  all knowledge floats around in the ether (akashic records)...pluck from it as thou wilt....
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Jungle Otter on February 29, 2008, 03:05:21 PM
Actually, Frank did deviate slightly from the ordered past. as the chopper was getting buffeted by the storm, you can see the compass needle waver slightly then Desmond had his mind trip (let's do the Time Warp again!)  ;D

I thought it was a great episode which leaves another question - wasn't Locke also in the hatch when it imploded? So, if he were to leave the island would he experience the same thing until his mind exploded as he has no anchor but the island?  Charlie and Eko were in close proximity so they might be affected as well if they weren't dead.....

I like the idea of limited time travel which just adds another element to the island's mysteries. Dan seemed as flaky in the past as he was in the present which would be his future when looking from the past.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: Madam P on February 29, 2008, 03:08:27 PM
Actually, Frank did deviate slightly from the ordered past. as the chopper was getting buffeted by the storm, you can see the compass needle waver slightly then Desmond had his mind trip (let's do the Time Warp again!)  ;D


Ah!  Thanks!  I missed that - there was a lot of bouncing going on and I didn't notice that the direction changed.  Off to re-watch...
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: lostfan777 on February 29, 2008, 03:09:56 PM
Dan seemed as flaky in the past as he was in the present which would be his future when looking from the past.

Who's on first.....I don't know........third base!
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: lostfromthestart on February 29, 2008, 03:34:51 PM
this is the first time they have actually made "traveling to and from the island" the main character of the story. Locke isnt "one" with the island, Desmond is. If you want to know the island, look at des.

Des did not travel to and from the island. First of all he was not on the island. THis had to do with the effects of traveling from the island, in getting away from it. Second Des did not travel, but his conscious did.

Well, he did travel some -- he travelled from the island in the helicopter, where they encountered (something? did lightning actually strike them?) which triggered the "travelling" of his consciousness.  I got the impression that if he hadn't travelled from the island (going through that thunderhead or whatever it was), that he wouldn't have done the time-travel.

They explained it on the episodes. Daniel asked Jack and Juliet if Desmond had recently been exposed to a larfe magnetic source. He had when he turned the failsafe key. The pilot could not keep the exact path because of the storm, so Desmond was affected by not staying on the exact path and being in the hatch implosion. Yes the traveling from the island triggered it.

Face it, Juggy.  You HATE the idea of time travel.  You have refused the notion as long as I can remember.  You even threatened once, that you would quit the forum if the show went in that direction.  I'm asking you to stay, but just accept that which some of us have suggested for over two years.
Title: Re: Dude, that sucked
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 29, 2008, 07:33:17 PM
Wow, lots to talk about here.

There are lots of SF theories of time travel. The one that the Powers seem to be selling us is that you can go back in time and change the past, but the universe course corrects. You can save Charlie, but only for so long. A mouse can learn a maze before you teach it to her, but then she dies so no ill effects. You're visited by a crazed Scot from the future, but then you forget about him. So no long term changes. If you buy this then Dan was exaggerating slightly (or partly wrong) when he said the future can't be changed.

I agree with Juggie that Des was especially susceptible 'cause of his presence at ground zero when the hatch imploded.

All we've seen so far on the show is a mammal's consciouness time traveling, but the Orchid video sure does look like a whole body following along. And the Powers have said that the Orchid is canon. So maybe we will see whole bodies moving later in the show. OTOH, maybe the Orchid is showing us something else entirely. E.g. a copy being teleported.