Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum
Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 4 => Episode 4x04 => Topic started by: tonysee200x on February 21, 2008, 11:56:45 PM
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He can do a complicated scientific experiment, but can't remember 3 cards? What is this supposed to mean or show us? There has to be a reason this scene was included.
Does it relate to him crying when he sees the footage of 815 crash?
Thoughts???
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Was he remembering those cards, or clairvoyantly guessing them? I wasn't clear on that one.
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I don't think it's related. But definetly there's something there: they woudn't have included that odd scene if it didn't mean anything!
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yeah someone was talking during that and i totally missed it! could someone recap for me? :-*
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I believe he is trying to test his memory to see if updates or course corrects itself in order to be chronologically relevant. He's testing his memory and more importantly its aptitude.
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That was the strangest part of the show. does he have some mental illness? I also wondering if it was a memory test or clairvoyance test.
It felt like a simple memory test.
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Let's not forget that Naomi called him a "head case".
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oh, he wasn't counting cards? he was shown 3 cards, and then asked to repeat them? maybe it is a test to prevent his mind from deteriorating...like alzhiemers...sort of....aren't people encouraged to do crossword puzzles and keep their mind challenged? not like studying up physics isn't challenging...
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I think it was just a memory test b/c Charlotte was trying to comfort him when he got them wrong. I'm guessing there's something wrong with our new friend.
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do you think that while they have been looking for this island they have also been studying the affects of what the island can/cannot do and now they are trying the studies out while actually on the island?
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my take was he was shown just 3 cards...and then they were turned over and he tried to remember what they were and could only after great difficulty remember 2 of them and the third was a way off base guess...
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yeah someone was talking during that and i totally missed it! could someone recap for me? :-*
Well, basically it went more or less like this
Charlotte is sitting across from Daniel with 3 cards face down, she says are you ready to try. He struggles and names three cards. She turns the cards over, the first two he names are correct the third one is wrong. Charlotte says “you did better” and Daniel says “it is only three cards”
I felt like he was just trying to remember them but that is not clear.....seems to not be worth the time it takes to explain...so why was it included in the show is the questions?
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thanks tony! yes, it does sound like there is something wrong with daniel... like it was more than just a little game. sweet of charlotte to help though. maybe his memory is just messed up somehow...maybe that is why he was crying during the crash footage. ah, who know.s
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See, but what if they brought Daniel along on this little mission in the first place because of some odd clairvoyant skill HE has? And now it's deteriorating on the island -- kinda the opposite of what happens to most people on the island.
I could still see this one going both ways.
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I think I must be really thick, cuz I totally thought it was some kind of card-counting thing or psychic-skill test. But the simplest answer is probably the best one - he's got a bad short-term memory.
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I've stolen a theory on this from Jay and Jack so blame them if I'm wrong!
On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker". On Jay and Jacks podcast someone wondered if he might be "functionally autistic". I'm not sure of exactly that means but from what I understand of autistism. People can be exceptionally good at some things (like science for example) and be terrible at other things (like short term memory). Makes sense to me.
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or they are checking to see if his memory is improving
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I think he was trying to predict the cards. I didn't take it as a memory test. I thought this was a big clue, but I'm always wrong.
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I've stolen a theory on this from Jay and Jack so blame them if I'm wrong!
On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker". On Jay and Jacks podcast someone wondered if he might be "functionally autistic". I'm not sure of exactly that means but from what I understand of autistism. People can be exceptionally good at some things (like science for example) and be terrible at other things (like short term memory). Makes sense to me.
Dude, that is exactly what I was thinking!
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$50 dollars says Daniel does the test again by the end of the season and gets all 3 right.
HE'S HEALED!! PRAISE THE ISLAND!!
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HE'S HEALED!! PRAISE THE ISLAND!!
AMEN! ;D
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I've stolen a theory on this from Jay and Jack so blame them if I'm wrong!
On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker". On Jay and Jacks podcast someone wondered if he might be "functionally autistic". I'm not sure of exactly that means but from what I understand of autistism. People can be exceptionally good at some things (like science for example) and be terrible at other things (like short term memory). Makes sense to me.
I'm totally going with this idea. I first thought it was a short term memory loss as well. Maybe Charlotte has a medical history of some kind and has taken on the duties of taking care of Dan? Hmm.
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I've stolen a theory on this from Jay and Jack so blame them if I'm wrong!
On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker". On Jay and Jacks podcast someone wondered if he might be "functionally autistic". I'm not sure of exactly that means but from what I understand of autistism. People can be exceptionally good at some things (like science for example) and be terrible at other things (like short term memory). Makes sense to me.
I'm totally going with this idea. I first thought it was a short term memory loss as well. Maybe Charlotte has a medical history of some kind and has taken on the duties of taking care of Dan? Hmm.
I'm not saying that is sounds crazy, cuz it doesnt, except they gave him a gun...'who was i supposed to shoot with this?' lol
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Between the physics stuff and the card tricks, the only simple solution I can tell that they have in common is numbers - and numbers are obviously a big part of the show.
I'd be surprised if it has anything to do with memory, but I kinda like the idea of some type of clairvoyance. All 5 members of Troop Minkowski were chosen for this mission for a specific reason. You never know. If Miles can speak to the recently deceased, who's to say the Daniel isn't special.
And if he does have some interesting ability, Charlotte definitely knows about it or else she wouldn't be testing him.
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Very much agreed Piglet!
I'm not thinking that little test had anything at all to do with memory.
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the scene starts out with. "time, ok tell me, what do you remember." gotta be short term memory loss caused by the island. he clearly remembers things he learned off the island. primary objective, setting up that beacon. who everyone is.
odd that they havent spent any time on this at all.
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It's clearly not clairvoyance, but memory. The disappointment, especially felt by Charlotte for Dan, seemed to be related to a prior condition, rather than some clairvoyance skill the wasn't working on the island as they had expected. Dan definitely displays many of the affects of someone who is autistic: social skills not up to speed, odd tics, but intense focus & ability in certain areas. They were clearly hoping for some healing. Which makes sense, since they obviously know about many of the island's properties already.
So, the question is, why could Locke walk immediately upon arriving on the island, while Daniel apparently hasn't healed?
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So, the question is, why could Locke walk immediately upon arriving on the island, while Daniel apparently hasn't healed?
Great perspective...
I didn't say it had to be one or the other. Basically, it's just a mind thing, and he was described by Naomi as a head case. Obivously something is wrong, what - we don't know (yet), but Daniel is unhappy about it.
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I've stolen a theory on this from Jay and Jack so blame them if I'm wrong!
On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker". On Jay and Jacks podcast someone wondered if he might be "functionally autistic". I'm not sure of exactly that means but from what I understand of autistism. People can be exceptionally good at some things (like science for example) and be terrible at other things (like short term memory). Makes sense to me.
Bam! Great call. I like that theory alot. All the pieces seem to fit.
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So, the question is, why could Locke walk immediately upon arriving on the island, while Daniel apparently hasn't healed?
It is the selective healing of the island. Locke can walk, but Ben has cancer. Rose's cancer is cured. It doesn't make sense to me. But the island doesn't cure everyone.
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Maybe all the boaties have been trained in memory techniques - I remember The heli pilot said he had memorized the flight manifest
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So, the question is, why could Locke walk immediately upon arriving on the island, while Daniel apparently hasn't healed?
If it's not selective healing, like someone just suggested, then maybe it's has to do with what is being healed. Healing someone who got paralyzed from a accident may be easier then healing someone who has a mental condition of some kind, it may just take a little longer. Charlotte did say he was getting better, even if it was with just three cards.
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Daniel wouldn't be "healed" because he is not favorable in the eyes of The Island.
On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker".
I like this idea. Good call. I would tend to think that autistic person's memory defeciency would be with more complex tasks such as "20 Questions". Still, some neurologic disorder is in evidence with him based on:
-The caretaker
-The unexplained crying
-The memory test
-The whole "nutty professor" persona
I'd wager that his craziness is not random though. It'll prove to be more akin to Leonard Simms'.
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He can do a complicated scientific experiment, but can't remember 3 cards? What is this supposed to mean or show us? There has to be a reason this scene was included.
Does it relate to him crying when he sees the footage of 815 crash?
Thoughts???
Maybe Daniel is an idiot savant? Now that would be cool.
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I've stolen a theory on this from Jay and Jack so blame them if I'm wrong!
On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker". On Jay and Jacks podcast someone wondered if he might be "functionally autistic". I'm not sure of exactly that means but from what I understand of autistism. People can be exceptionally good at some things (like science for example) and be terrible at other things (like short term memory). Makes sense to me.
I'm totally going with this idea. I first thought it was a short term memory loss as well. Maybe Charlotte has a medical history of some kind and has taken on the duties of taking care of Dan? Hmm.
I'm not saying that is sounds crazy, cuz it doesnt, except they gave him a gun...'who was i supposed to shoot with this?' lol
My best friends nephew is autistic. No way I'm giving that kid a gun. I'm just gonna throw out there that Daniel and company are definitely there for the island and the island itself. The Oceanic lostie survivors are just more specimen to study. Charlotte and Dan know the Jack/side is cooperating and the Locke side wants no part. They all have an objective. The card game is tricky because I agree that off the island Dan was needing help. He is unstable but so is everybody off the island other than Ben and Kate. So, sure magical mystery island holds true to only helping whom it wants but off the island there is no power. Jack is suicidal, Sayid is crying from a gunshot wound or love/plus the recap said he doesn't torture anymore just kills. Hugo is suffering from paranoia or back to being a fat koolaid guy mess. Kate can't love. So, on and so on.
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I think Dan wasn't always so quirky. He suffered some kind of trauma that left him brain-damaged, either physically or mentally, I'm not sure which.
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I may have to recant and give it up to some of you folks who said it could be memory... I read this off of DocArzt's site when I was comparing Easter eggs, it was a discussion on "genetic memory" and seemed plausible. It even has ties to the book Locke gives Ben (Valis by Phillip K. Dick). Just an interesting theory...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_memory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_memory)
http://www.docarzt.com/lost-easter-eggs/easter-eggs-lost-404-eggtown.php (http://www.docarzt.com/lost-easter-eggs/easter-eggs-lost-404-eggtown.php)
But yeah I agree, I wouldn't give him a gun if that were the case...
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I say he has some sort of short term memory problem.
He cant remember all 3 cards.
Seems to not know the plan when he reached the island.
Always looks confused.
I will also just throw out there that he knew someone that was on the plane, and was reminded when they found it. Thats why he was crying.
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Given that researchers still don't know what causes autism, it may have a genetic component. Therefore the island may not see Daniel's condition as a disease, just like it wouldn't see shortness as a disease and make someone 'normal' height. I tend to think Daniel does have a connection to the island. He reminds me of:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin
who designed humane fencing for cattle (Svetlana!) at slaughterhouses. Dan's makeup allows him the singular ability to see the special nature of light on the island, which others can't. Will he lose these abilities if healed?
But like Juniper Jade says, Charlotte indicated that Dan is getting better. Unless that's purely consolational, the island seems to be partially/slowly healing in this case. Why?
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Dan's makeup allows him the singular ability to see the special nature of light on the island, which others can't.
I disagree, He is a scientist and came to the island with preconceptions of anomalies. Probably from their employer. Lets not forget the fact they had a rocket with a clock on it pointed at the island ready to go as an experiment. So this tells us that they are aware that some strange things happen on the island and thinking outside the box pbobably thought of a lens and looked at how the light scatters.
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$50 dollars says Daniel does the test again by the end of the season and gets all 3 right.
HE'S HEALED!! PRAISE THE ISLAND!!
i think its more of a setup for maybe a life and death sitation where faraday has to recall something simple to save his or someone elses life, and this scene has been placed to give us doubt and suspense.
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I gotta go watch it again, but...from looking at the pics on here:
Wasn't the card he didn't get right the 3 of spades?
Go look on Sledge's pics for the one of Kate going into Aaron's room.
The pic of the bike to her left.
What card(s) is/are those?
Looks like a hand showing a red card (queen of diamonds?) and the 6 of clubs on top.
The one Daniel missed isn't there...either.
I'm probably just grasping at namaste paintings spelled backwards though.
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could daniel has some sort of neurological problem that makes him behave the way he does, the memory loss....the bizarre crying etc etc, could he be thinking the island would start healing him?
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I think Dans memory is messed up because he did an "Elouise" experiment on himself.