Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 4 => Episode 4x04 => Topic started by: tonysee200x on February 21, 2008, 11:56:45 PM

Title: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: tonysee200x on February 21, 2008, 11:56:45 PM
He can do a complicated scientific experiment, but can't remember 3 cards? What is this supposed to mean or show us? There has to be a reason this scene was included.

Does it relate to him crying when he sees the footage of 815 crash?

Thoughts???
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Austruck on February 21, 2008, 11:57:39 PM
Was he remembering those cards, or clairvoyantly guessing them? I wasn't clear on that one.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: *MaZ* on February 21, 2008, 11:58:32 PM
I don't think it's related. But definetly there's something there: they woudn't have included that odd scene if it didn't mean anything!
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 21, 2008, 11:58:53 PM
yeah someone was talking during that and i totally missed it!  could someone recap for me?  :-*
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: matahari on February 22, 2008, 12:02:26 AM
I believe he is trying to test his memory to see if updates or course corrects itself in order to be chronologically relevant. He's testing his memory and more importantly its aptitude.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: jugdish on February 22, 2008, 12:02:49 AM
That was the strangest part of the show. does he have some mental illness? I also wondering if it was a memory test or clairvoyance test.

It felt like a simple memory test.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Gutterball94 on February 22, 2008, 12:03:40 AM
Let's not forget that Naomi called him a "head case".
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 22, 2008, 12:04:35 AM
oh, he wasn't counting cards?  he was shown 3 cards, and then asked to repeat them?  maybe it is a test to prevent his mind from deteriorating...like alzhiemers...sort of....aren't people encouraged to do crossword puzzles and keep their mind challenged?  not like studying up physics isn't challenging...
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: *MaZ* on February 22, 2008, 12:04:42 AM
I think it was just a memory test b/c Charlotte was trying to comfort him when he got them wrong. I'm guessing there's something wrong with our new friend.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: lostatsea on February 22, 2008, 12:06:23 AM
do you think that while they have been looking for this island they have also been studying the affects of what the island can/cannot do and now they are trying the studies out while actually on the island?
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: ozman776 on February 22, 2008, 12:06:35 AM
my take was he was shown just 3 cards...and then they were turned over and he tried to remember what they were and could only after great difficulty remember 2 of them and the third was a way off base guess...
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: tonysee200x on February 22, 2008, 12:10:51 AM
yeah someone was talking during that and i totally missed it!  could someone recap for me?  :-*

Well, basically it went more or less like this

Charlotte is sitting across from Daniel with 3 cards face down, she says are you ready to try. He struggles and names three cards. She turns the cards over, the first two he names are correct the third one is wrong. Charlotte says “you did better” and Daniel says “it is only three cards”

I felt like he was just trying to remember them but that is not clear.....seems to not be worth the time it takes to explain...so why was it included in the show is the questions?
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 22, 2008, 12:13:36 AM
thanks tony!  yes, it does sound like there is something wrong with daniel... like it was more than just a little game.  sweet of charlotte to help though.  maybe his memory is just messed up somehow...maybe that is why he was crying during the crash footage.  ah, who know.s
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Austruck on February 22, 2008, 12:16:30 AM
See, but what if they brought Daniel along on this little mission in the first place because of some odd clairvoyant skill HE has? And now it's deteriorating on the island -- kinda the opposite of what happens to most people on the island.

I could still see this one going both ways.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: E.S.B. on February 22, 2008, 12:18:54 AM
I think I must be really thick, cuz I totally thought it was some kind of card-counting thing or psychic-skill test.  But the simplest answer is probably the best one - he's got a bad short-term memory.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: jumbotron on February 22, 2008, 12:19:16 AM
I've stolen a theory on this from Jay and Jack so blame them if I'm wrong!

On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker".  On Jay and Jacks podcast someone wondered if he might be "functionally autistic".  I'm not sure of exactly that means but from what I understand of autistism. People can be exceptionally good at some things (like science for example) and be terrible at other things (like short term memory).  Makes sense to me. 
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: LouE68 on February 22, 2008, 12:20:14 AM
or they are checking to see if his memory  is improving
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Blackrock Bob on February 22, 2008, 12:20:58 AM
I think he was trying to predict the cards. I didn't take it as a memory test. I thought this was a big clue, but I'm always wrong.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: E.S.B. on February 22, 2008, 12:22:01 AM
I've stolen a theory on this from Jay and Jack so blame them if I'm wrong!

On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker".  On Jay and Jacks podcast someone wondered if he might be "functionally autistic".  I'm not sure of exactly that means but from what I understand of autistism. People can be exceptionally good at some things (like science for example) and be terrible at other things (like short term memory).  Makes sense to me. 

Dude, that is exactly what I was thinking!
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: fieldy32 on February 22, 2008, 01:01:38 AM
$50 dollars says Daniel does the test again by the end of the season and gets all 3 right. 

HE'S HEALED!! PRAISE THE ISLAND!!
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Gutterball94 on February 22, 2008, 01:06:38 AM
HE'S HEALED!! PRAISE THE ISLAND!!

AMEN! ;D
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Juniper Jade on February 22, 2008, 01:17:05 AM
I've stolen a theory on this from Jay and Jack so blame them if I'm wrong!

On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker".  On Jay and Jacks podcast someone wondered if he might be "functionally autistic".  I'm not sure of exactly that means but from what I understand of autistism. People can be exceptionally good at some things (like science for example) and be terrible at other things (like short term memory).  Makes sense to me. 
I'm totally going with this idea. I first thought it was a short term memory loss as well. Maybe Charlotte has a medical history of some kind and has taken on the duties of taking care of Dan? Hmm.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: LouE68 on February 22, 2008, 01:22:14 AM
I've stolen a theory on this from Jay and Jack so blame them if I'm wrong!

On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker".  On Jay and Jacks podcast someone wondered if he might be "functionally autistic".  I'm not sure of exactly that means but from what I understand of autistism. People can be exceptionally good at some things (like science for example) and be terrible at other things (like short term memory).  Makes sense to me. 
I'm totally going with this idea. I first thought it was a short term memory loss as well. Maybe Charlotte has a medical history of some kind and has taken on the duties of taking care of Dan? Hmm.
I'm not saying that is sounds crazy, cuz it doesnt, except they gave him a gun...'who was i supposed to shoot with this?' lol
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: uofapiglet on February 22, 2008, 01:41:12 AM
Between the physics stuff and the card tricks, the only simple solution I can tell that they have in common is numbers - and numbers are obviously a big part of the show.

I'd be surprised if it has anything to do with memory, but I kinda like the idea of some type of clairvoyance. All 5 members of Troop Minkowski were chosen for this mission for a specific reason. You never know. If Miles can speak to the recently deceased, who's to say the Daniel isn't special.

And if he does have some interesting ability, Charlotte definitely knows about it or else she wouldn't be testing him.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: KateReallyLovesJack on February 22, 2008, 03:08:02 AM
Very much agreed Piglet!

I'm not thinking that little test had anything at all to do with memory.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: TheGoodPeople on February 22, 2008, 03:26:34 AM
the scene starts out with. "time, ok tell me, what do you remember." gotta be short term memory loss caused by the island. he clearly remembers things he learned off the island. primary objective, setting up that beacon. who everyone is.

odd that they havent spent any time on this at all.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on February 22, 2008, 03:34:16 AM
It's clearly not clairvoyance, but memory.  The disappointment, especially felt by Charlotte for Dan, seemed to be related to a prior condition, rather than some clairvoyance skill the wasn't working on the island as they had expected.  Dan definitely displays many of the affects of someone who is autistic: social skills not up to speed, odd tics, but intense focus & ability in certain areas. They were clearly hoping for some healing. Which makes sense, since they obviously know about many of the island's properties already. 

So, the question is, why could Locke walk immediately upon arriving on the island, while Daniel apparently hasn't healed?
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: uofapiglet on February 22, 2008, 04:14:12 AM
So, the question is, why could Locke walk immediately upon arriving on the island, while Daniel apparently hasn't healed?

Great perspective...

I didn't say it had to be one or the other. Basically, it's just a mind thing, and he was described by Naomi as a head case. Obivously something is wrong, what - we don't know (yet), but Daniel is unhappy about it.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: CaseyMac on February 22, 2008, 04:28:06 AM
I've stolen a theory on this from Jay and Jack so blame them if I'm wrong!

On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker".  On Jay and Jacks podcast someone wondered if he might be "functionally autistic".  I'm not sure of exactly that means but from what I understand of autistism. People can be exceptionally good at some things (like science for example) and be terrible at other things (like short term memory).  Makes sense to me. 

Bam! Great call. I like that theory alot. All the pieces seem to fit.

Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Blackrock Bob on February 22, 2008, 08:21:41 AM

So, the question is, why could Locke walk immediately upon arriving on the island, while Daniel apparently hasn't healed?

It is the selective healing of the island. Locke can walk, but Ben has cancer. Rose's cancer is cured. It doesn't make sense to me. But the island doesn't cure everyone.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Bud on February 22, 2008, 09:28:01 AM
Maybe all the boaties have been trained in memory techniques - I remember The heli pilot said he had memorized the flight manifest
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Juniper Jade on February 22, 2008, 12:07:09 PM
So, the question is, why could Locke walk immediately upon arriving on the island, while Daniel apparently hasn't healed?

If it's not selective healing, like someone just suggested, then maybe it's has to do with what is being healed. Healing someone who got paralyzed from a accident may be easier then healing someone who has a mental condition of some kind, it may just take a little longer. Charlotte did say he was getting better, even if it was with just three cards.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Creflo on February 22, 2008, 12:21:26 PM
Daniel wouldn't be "healed" because he is not favorable in the eyes of The Island.

Quote
On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker".

I like this idea.  Good call.  I would tend to think that autistic person's memory defeciency would be with more complex tasks such as "20 Questions".  Still, some neurologic disorder is in evidence with him based on:
-The caretaker
-The unexplained crying
-The memory test
-The whole "nutty professor" persona

I'd wager that his craziness is not random though.  It'll prove to be more akin to Leonard Simms'.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: T Mack on February 22, 2008, 12:39:21 PM
He can do a complicated scientific experiment, but can't remember 3 cards? What is this supposed to mean or show us? There has to be a reason this scene was included.

Does it relate to him crying when he sees the footage of 815 crash?

Thoughts???

Maybe Daniel is an idiot savant?  Now that would be cool.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Point Place WI on February 22, 2008, 01:34:17 PM
I've stolen a theory on this from Jay and Jack so blame them if I'm wrong!

On the pop-up-video version of Confirmed Dead the woman in Dan's home is called his "caretaker".  On Jay and Jacks podcast someone wondered if he might be "functionally autistic".  I'm not sure of exactly that means but from what I understand of autistism. People can be exceptionally good at some things (like science for example) and be terrible at other things (like short term memory).  Makes sense to me. 
I'm totally going with this idea. I first thought it was a short term memory loss as well. Maybe Charlotte has a medical history of some kind and has taken on the duties of taking care of Dan? Hmm.
I'm not saying that is sounds crazy, cuz it doesnt, except they gave him a gun...'who was i supposed to shoot with this?' lol

My best friends nephew is autistic.  No way I'm giving that kid a gun.  I'm just gonna throw out there that Daniel and company are definitely there for the island and the island itself.  The Oceanic lostie survivors are just more specimen to study.  Charlotte and Dan know the Jack/side is cooperating and the Locke side wants no part.  They all have an objective.  The card game is tricky because I agree that off the island Dan was needing help.  He is unstable but so is everybody off the island other than Ben and Kate.  So, sure magical mystery island holds true to only helping whom it wants but off the island there is no power.  Jack is suicidal, Sayid is crying from a gunshot wound or love/plus the recap said he doesn't torture anymore just kills.  Hugo is suffering from paranoia or back to being a fat koolaid guy mess.  Kate can't love.  So, on and so on. 

Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: lostfan777 on February 22, 2008, 01:37:08 PM
I think Dan wasn't always so quirky.  He suffered some kind of trauma that left him brain-damaged, either physically or mentally, I'm not sure which.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: uofapiglet on February 22, 2008, 02:04:04 PM
I may have to recant and give it up to some of you folks who said it could be memory... I read this off of DocArzt's site when I was comparing Easter eggs, it was a discussion on "genetic memory" and seemed plausible. It even has ties to the book Locke gives Ben (Valis by Phillip K. Dick). Just an interesting theory...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_memory (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_memory)
http://www.docarzt.com/lost-easter-eggs/easter-eggs-lost-404-eggtown.php (http://www.docarzt.com/lost-easter-eggs/easter-eggs-lost-404-eggtown.php)

But yeah I agree, I wouldn't give him a gun if that were the case...
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Writers_Strike on February 22, 2008, 05:20:35 PM
I say he has some sort of short term memory problem.

He cant remember all 3 cards.
Seems to not know the plan when he reached the island.
Always looks confused.
I will also just throw out there that he knew someone that was on the plane, and was reminded when they found it. Thats why he was crying.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on February 22, 2008, 07:27:02 PM
Given that researchers still don't know what causes autism, it may have a genetic component.  Therefore the island may not see Daniel's condition as a disease, just like it wouldn't see shortness as a disease and make someone 'normal' height.  I tend to think Daniel does have a connection to the island.  He reminds me of:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Grandin
who designed humane fencing for cattle (Svetlana!) at slaughterhouses.  Dan's makeup allows him the singular ability to see the special nature of light on the island, which others can't.  Will he lose these abilities if healed?

But like Juniper Jade says, Charlotte indicated that Dan is getting better.  Unless that's purely consolational, the island seems to be partially/slowly healing in this case.  Why?
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Writers_Strike on February 22, 2008, 07:35:42 PM
Dan's makeup allows him the singular ability to see the special nature of light on the island, which others can't. 

I disagree, He is a scientist and came to the island with preconceptions of anomalies. Probably from their employer. Lets not forget the fact they had a rocket with a clock on it pointed at the island ready to go as an experiment. So this tells us that they are aware that some strange things happen on the island and thinking outside the box pbobably thought of a lens and looked at how the light scatters.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Gmonkey on February 22, 2008, 09:57:03 PM
$50 dollars says Daniel does the test again by the end of the season and gets all 3 right. 

HE'S HEALED!! PRAISE THE ISLAND!!

i think its more of a setup for maybe a life and death sitation where faraday has to recall something simple to save his or someone elses life, and this scene has been placed to give us doubt and suspense.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Asmodean on February 23, 2008, 06:44:08 PM
I gotta go watch it again, but...from looking at the pics on here:
Wasn't the card he didn't get right the 3 of spades?
Go look on Sledge's pics for the one of Kate going into Aaron's room.
The pic of the bike to her left.
What card(s) is/are those?
Looks like a hand showing a red card (queen of diamonds?) and the 6 of clubs on top.
The one Daniel missed isn't there...either.
I'm probably just grasping at namaste paintings spelled backwards though.
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: cbw420 on February 25, 2008, 11:40:43 PM
could daniel has some sort of neurological problem that makes him behave the way he does, the memory loss....the bizarre crying etc etc, could he be thinking the island would start healing him?
Title: Re: Whats up with Daniel's memory?
Post by: Bud on March 07, 2008, 09:30:30 AM
I think Dans memory is messed up because he did an "Elouise" experiment on himself.