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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 4 => Episode 4x04 => Topic started by: taki1379 on February 21, 2008, 11:17:23 PM

Title: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: taki1379 on February 21, 2008, 11:17:23 PM
Why would jack object to seeing Aaron. Could he have been against him leaving without Claire?
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: hyperform on February 21, 2008, 11:19:11 PM
maybe locke kills her or something and jack blames himself for it. for not being able to stop it.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: taki1379 on February 21, 2008, 11:20:41 PM
do you think locke is going to go crazy?
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: versed4every1 on February 21, 2008, 11:21:14 PM
My thought is that must have either happened to Claire or they must have taken Aaron against her will.  There is no way that Claire would have willingly left Aaron - not at this point.  I think that Jack's reaction to Kate is part of what leads her to not be speaking to him when he calls her in the Looking Glass episode.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on February 21, 2008, 11:22:12 PM
Jack has learned that Claire is his sister by now and something occured between him and her, thats my guess.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: jugdish on February 21, 2008, 11:23:21 PM
Could very well be that they had to leave Claire behind and Jack knows it is his sisters kid
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: hyperform on February 21, 2008, 11:24:10 PM
Kate and Claire seem to be developing a decent friendship, I could see Claire giving Aaron to her as Kate was leaving because of the Locke-a-caust
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: taki1379 on February 21, 2008, 11:25:33 PM
If he knows it's his sister's boy, then it would be his nephew. It doesn't make sense that he wouldn't want to see it.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: *MaZ* on February 21, 2008, 11:25:56 PM
I think something happens to Claire, and Jack cannot fix her. It's hard for him so face her son.
I agree, at this point Claire would only leave Aaron if she was dead.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Blackrock Bob on February 21, 2008, 11:26:48 PM
Jack has learned that Claire is his sister by now and something occured between him and her, thats my guess.

I agree. I think Jack knows who Claire is, and that Aaron is the only other thing he has of his father.
I thinking Locke ends up doing something to Claire. I've said she dies and Jack can't save since we found out that is his half-sister.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Staggerlee on February 21, 2008, 11:29:17 PM
 In that episode when Kate comes to Jack at the airport, does she not say something to the effect that she has to get back before " he finds out I am gone"...she was talking about Aaron
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 21, 2008, 11:38:26 PM
yeah, at first i thought maybe it really was sawyer's baby and that he just didn't want to be reminded....but it doesn't make sense why he wouldn't want to see aaron, unless something terrible happend like you guys have said to claire...?
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: matahari on February 22, 2008, 12:00:11 AM
If he knows it's his sister's boy, then it would be his nephew. It doesn't make sense that he wouldn't want to see it.

Don't forget Christian left Jack's mother for Claire's mother which makes Aaron an illegitimate nephew in Jack's eyes
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Austruck on February 22, 2008, 12:02:59 AM
I'm curious how Jack would ever find out Claire was his sister at this point, though. If Claire's not one of the six, and his father is dead, and her mother is dead, then ... her mother's sister is about the only character left who knows, and ...

Wait! At any sort of memorial service or with any sort of media frenzy, her mother's sister could easily see the name Jack Shepard and make the connection with Christian Shepard ... and spill the beans to Jack.

But would she? She really didn't want to acknowledge Claire's parentage at all previously.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 22, 2008, 12:06:14 AM
yeah, i think claire's aunt was kinda done with her...she didn't seem to be a very supportive figure in claire's life. 
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Austruck on February 22, 2008, 12:07:58 AM
Still, people change and get weird when things like traumatic death happen. Especially if they want a moment of fame. We only saw that character for a little bit, though, and not at her best, I'm sure. Hard to predict what she'd do -- but she's a definite possibility as a means of Jack finding out about his sister. (How else would he find out at this point?)
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: jugdish on February 22, 2008, 12:11:10 AM
If Jack knows it is his nephew, wouldn't you want to know him, be part of his life? But it is Jack we are talking about.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: LouE68 on February 22, 2008, 12:15:09 AM
it only leaves something tragic with Claire, why he cant look at Aaron...
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: fieldy32 on February 22, 2008, 12:55:33 AM
I'm curious how Jack would ever find out Claire was his sister at this point, though. If Claire's not one of the six, and his father is dead, and her mother is dead, then ... her mother's sister is about the only character left who knows, and ...

Wait! At any sort of memorial service or with any sort of media frenzy, her mother's sister could easily see the name Jack Shepard and make the connection with Christian Shepard ... and spill the beans to Jack.

But would she? She really didn't want to acknowledge Claire's parentage at all previously.
I'm sure Ben has this information, he could easily have told them by the time Jack gets off the island.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Bostonlost on February 22, 2008, 05:19:21 AM
1 . I would say that Claire dies.....That would be the only way that she would give up her baby...The other part to that is he (jack)knows that this is part of his father's "other" family and is just all set with that ....You know like thanks but no thanks


2. That he knows that Kate stole the baby ...maybe the thinking is that they/her stole the baby because they/her think it will would be better off with the Oceanic 5/6 in the real world then on some kooky uncharted Island
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: TheGoodPeople on February 22, 2008, 05:21:07 AM
Or it just could be weird for Jack, being in love with his nephews mom and all.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Lion of Atreides on February 22, 2008, 07:26:11 AM
I restarted the 'Someone to Die in Season 4?' General Spoiler thread, if you care to look...
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Blackrock Bob on February 22, 2008, 08:49:09 AM
I agree with people that are saying Ben knows who Claire's daddy is. Maybe even Juliette knows.
I wonder if Ben uses this information to make Jack do things?
Jack wouldn't take the baby, but Kate jumped at the chance. Jack is heart broken over the loss of his only sister, and never really buried his father. He couldn't save Claire, she dies on the island. Drunken spiral...Bushy beard Jack.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: lostfan777 on February 22, 2008, 12:12:59 PM
Yeah, another tidbit of info Ben is holding onto until it becomes valuable.  Possibly Jack finds out after it is too late, either Claire is dead or still on the island.  I can imagine her giving Aaron to Kate to get him off the island, but I can't imagine why she wouldn't be able to leave herself unless she dies.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: bubbles on February 22, 2008, 01:43:51 PM
something is keeping the other survivors from getting off the island.  it could be death, but i dont think that all of them are dead.  it is possible  that claire is dead though.

i was thinking that the bro/sis info would be revealed by Ben, but maybe the folks on the boat kow if too.  Maybe after Jack is off the island and on the frieghter they tell him just to mess with his mind.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Asmodean on February 22, 2008, 01:44:59 PM
One word...guilt.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Monalisa on February 22, 2008, 02:11:36 PM
But if the Oceanic 6 get big money (did you see Kate's fancy house) then relatives will be coming out of the woodwork.  If Aaron is the 6th survivor, then he might have a sizeable settlement and Claire's aunt could potentially claim it as the sole living relative.  Thus an opportunity for Jack to find out about Christian's relation to Claire.  And maybe as Claire lay dying she asks Kate to care for Aaron.  The aunt tries to claim him, Kate refuses, and Jack is caught in the middle.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: vickilynn on February 22, 2008, 02:24:13 PM
On the witness stand, Jack says that he loved Kate once, but no longer. Then in the garage he tells her it was a lie...meaning he does love her. Why does her eyes light up like that? I thought she really loved Sawyer? (Which is why I was expecting the baby to be Sawyer's.)

Anyway, I don't think the other survivors left on the island are dead. Why would Hurley be "seeing" Charlie and getting prompted to go help them? He is definitely too scared to go back. Kate doesn't want to go back (could be because of the probation we just learned about?) but Jack feels guilty and wants to fix things somehow. I think Claire couldn't leave for some reason, she asks Kate to take Aaron to keep him safe, and Jack goes along with the story. Because if Kate had done something to Claire to get off the island I don't think Jack would be telling her that he still loved her in the garage.

I don't think Aaron counts as one of the Oceanic 6 as he wasn't one of the original passengers. (The timeline still screws me up.)
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: lostfan777 on February 22, 2008, 02:26:23 PM
I don't think Aaron counts as one of the Oceanic 6 as he wasn't one of the original passengers. (The timeline still screws me up.)

Did Claire have him fed-exed over to the island later?  He was on the plain as sure as she was.  And the promo said another of the six will be revealed.  It was him.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: vickilynn on February 22, 2008, 02:31:11 PM
I don't think Aaron counts as one of the Oceanic 6 as he wasn't one of the original passengers. (The timeline still screws me up.)

Did Claire have him fed-exed over to the island later?  He was on the plain as sure as she was.  And the promo said another of the six will be revealed.  It was him.

Sorry, but he didn't have a ticket, so I wouldn't count him as one of the original survivors, that's all. Usually the media would report one of the six had a baby while marooned.

But you're right, I forgot the promo said another one of the six would be revealed.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: firemanandlostfan on February 22, 2008, 02:31:56 PM
could it be that there is room for one more on a helicopter and Claire gives Aaron to Kate and then all escapes off the island are cut off and they cant get back to rescue any more?  Thus the guilt?
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Asmodean on February 22, 2008, 02:53:06 PM
Funny how Kate was so "anti-baby" during the clothesline scene too.  Something changed between those points.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Staggerlee on February 22, 2008, 03:05:37 PM
foreshadowing...that's when my wife called as it was....
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 22, 2008, 08:05:14 PM
I agree foreshadowing. And a lot of bonding between then and the flash forward.

I think we can assume that in the cover up story, Claire is dead. But her estate (ie Aaron) would claim benefits. In that sense he might be considered one of the O6.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: dragonflyk on February 24, 2008, 04:34:02 PM
I do not know if I would agree that Claire dies... just as Lost goes, I just think there is more to the story.
I know- that doesn't help.
I fire myself...thank you, drive through...
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 24, 2008, 07:20:19 PM
DragonFly, I think part of the coverup has to be that Claire is dead.

In "real life" she could be either dead or left behind on the island. My guess at this point is the latter just 'cause I think that sets up more dramatic possibilities in the future.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: E-Rich on February 24, 2008, 07:24:36 PM
I don't think Aaron counts as one of the Oceanic 6 as he wasn't one of the original passengers. (The timeline still screws me up.)

I think you are referring to the promo for "The Economist" saying that another would be revealed (when we find out it is Sayid).  This episodes promos did not tell us of another one being revealed.  I don't think we can count Aaron as one of the 6.

Did Claire have him fed-exed over to the island later?  He was on the plain as sure as she was.  And the promo said another of the six will be revealed.  It was him.

Sorry, but he didn't have a ticket, so I wouldn't count him as one of the original survivors, that's all. Usually the media would report one of the six had a baby while marooned.

But you're right, I forgot the promo said another one of the six would be revealed.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: lostfan777 on February 25, 2008, 11:02:25 AM
I don't think Aaron counts as one of the Oceanic 6 as he wasn't one of the original passengers. (The timeline still screws me up.)

I think you are referring to the promo for "The Economist" saying that another would be revealed (when we find out it is Sayid).  This episodes promos did not tell us of another one being revealed.  I don't think we can count Aaron as one of the 6.

Did Claire have him fed-exed over to the island later?  He was on the plain as sure as she was.  And the promo said another of the six will be revealed.  It was him.

Sorry, but he didn't have a ticket, so I wouldn't count him as one of the original survivors, that's all. Usually the media would report one of the six had a baby while marooned.

But you're right, I forgot the promo said another one of the six would be revealed.

As a father, I would count a fetus as a survivor, and I think the media would also, if only to avoid the backlash of leaving him out of the count.  The only way he would not be counted IMO would be if the rescue happens a long time after the arrival of the freighters and Kate later lies about the baby's age and claims to have gotten pregnant and had him completely on the island (Aaron was born shortly after crash, so if Kate got busy right away, she'd only have to claim her baby is nine months younger than Aaron actually is) or if that story is actually the case and Kate's Aaron is her own, named for Claire's baby who tragically died.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Floyd25 on February 25, 2008, 01:12:05 PM
Survivors are considered as names on the manifest or maybe not, how else would she claim him?  WHo would give her cistody of some one elses baby when she's a murderer?  SHe would have to say he's hers WHICH IS WHY she won't let her mom met Aaron, she knew Kate wasn't pregnant when she went on the run and needs to avoid the questions from the mother she doesn't trust.  Good for Kate for protecting Aaron.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Lady Penelope on February 25, 2008, 01:40:22 PM
I think that on the island there was either:

1. An ultimatum laid down by the people who will take the survivors off the island. They have lots of info on the losties and could then dictate who they take, feeding them the cover story (that jack keeps telling) etc.... and for some reason they keep the identity of who else is on the island a secret.

2. Locke goes a bit mental and accidently kills Claire, Jack and Kate come to help but it's too late. When faced with the orphaned Aaron, Ben says it's Jacks Nephew and Jack freaks out. Kate takes the baby.


Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: lostfan777 on February 25, 2008, 01:47:41 PM
Has anyone considered that maybe by the time our flash forwards take place, there may not BE any other survivors left on the island.  Maybe Jack was telling a different version of the truth when he said only six survived.  Maybe he avoids seeing Aaron because of his guilt about what happened to everyone left behind.
Doesn't explain everything, but just one option.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: Asmodean on February 25, 2008, 02:14:44 PM
Could be.  Maybe it'll go the route of City on the Edge of Forever from the old Star Trek.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: SQUIRT199 on February 25, 2008, 04:10:14 PM
We need to bear in mind that we have not necessarily seen the newest/oldest flash forward,

I think there will be more flash forwards later than jacks suicide attempt/visit to funeral home,

They could all eventually get rescued, at the point we are at we only know of six that get off, but that doesnt mean in the big picture everyone else is dead, although for Claire to give up Arron something terrible must have happened, as I said LOST could end alot further into the future that we have been shown up till now.
Title: Jack Claire's half brother..Aaron his Half Nephew
Post by: louisianagirl76l on March 07, 2008, 03:57:08 PM
Do you think that mybe Jack found out that Aaron is he half nephew and that is why he doenst want to see him? He did have major daddy issues.
Title: Re: jack's reaction to going home with kate
Post by: LostAndSeek on March 07, 2008, 10:08:48 PM
I think it's mainly guilt at leaving Claire and other Losties behind, alive or dead. If he knows Claire's his sis, that just adds to the guilt.