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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 4 => Episode 4x03 => Topic started by: Point Place WI on February 14, 2008, 11:06:01 PM

Title: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Point Place WI on February 14, 2008, 11:06:01 PM
I don't get that one.  Nice cliffhanger but obviously Sayid is working to keep his friends alive from what we know.  How is that relevant if Ben is no longer on the island.  Is Locke keeping them hostage?  Richard?  Jacob?   
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: JBRam on February 14, 2008, 11:07:20 PM
Maybe Ben isn't Bad.... ;)
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: E-Rich on February 14, 2008, 11:07:39 PM
These are all excellent questions.....

What list is he referring to when he tells Sayid to kill someone?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: AstroJones on February 14, 2008, 11:08:12 PM
I took it to mean that Sayid was working to keep the other 5 of the Oceanic 6 alive.  Like perhaps these people they're chasing are a danger to them.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on February 14, 2008, 11:08:55 PM
I really have thought that Ben is not lieing like everyone says he is.  He might be manipulative but he has said since the end of season two that they are the good guys.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: jillybean4u on February 14, 2008, 11:08:58 PM
I don't know why Ben's involved, but it blew my whole Sayid is in a Mr & Mrs Smith escapade. So hoping they were working for mafia -- oh wait, maybe Ben's bigger than any other crime boss in history!
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: nikarro on February 14, 2008, 11:09:13 PM
So if jack and hurley want to go back and Sayid is killing people for Ben, do they not know about Ben's little agenda?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: E-Rich on February 14, 2008, 11:09:54 PM
Oh really?  That is interesting. 

Plus - the bracelet looked the same on naomi as it did on elsa....he had to have known she was bad because of naomi. 

I'm looking forward to a flashback to find out what ben tells sayid in that little rec room in New Otherton.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: E-Rich on February 14, 2008, 11:10:46 PM
oh wait, maybe Ben's bigger than any other crime boss in history!

Tony Soprano looks like a little baby compared to ben....
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: versed4every1 on February 14, 2008, 11:11:03 PM
I took it to mean that Sayid was working to keep the other 5 of the Oceanic 6 alive.  Like perhaps these people they're chasing are a danger to them.

I think that is the right line of thinking.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Blackrock Bob on February 14, 2008, 11:11:03 PM
Ben is protecting the other survivors. Either the Oceanic 6 or the people that remained on the island.
Obviously Sayid makes some stupid mistake that gives Ben power over him. I'm sure Desmond has something to do with it too, since they both got on the helicopter.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: JBRam on February 14, 2008, 11:12:04 PM
I took it to mean that Sayid was working to keep the other 5 of the Oceanic 6 alive.  Like perhaps these people they're chasing are a danger to them.

I think that is the right line of thinking.
I concur... I think Abaddon getting through to Hurley was a mistake on Sayid's part... maybe not getting Elsa's boss?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: lostatsea on February 14, 2008, 11:13:37 PM
Ben has been off the island more than he has claimed to be
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: JBRam on February 14, 2008, 11:14:35 PM
Who's giving Ben the new lists? Jacob?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Maxor127 on February 14, 2008, 11:14:41 PM
I don't know why.  I'm guessing Ben is systematically killing anyone linked to whoever sent the freighter.  That last scene reminded me of the film Munich.  I called it though about Ben being Sayid's boss.  When Sayid was talking to Ben on the island and saying something about how he'd never trust him, I had a feeling he'd end up his boss.  And when he said he had a list of names, I was even more sure.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: FoxyMama on February 14, 2008, 11:15:24 PM
But who does Elsa and Abaddon work for?  I'm assuming they were after Ben (given the info we have so far) and now, they're after Ben's island buddies?  what gives? :-\
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: versed4every1 on February 14, 2008, 11:15:51 PM
I took it to mean that Sayid was working to keep the other 5 of the Oceanic 6 alive.  Like perhaps these people they're chasing are a danger to them.

I think that is the right line of thinking.
I concur... I think Abaddon getting through to Hurley was a mistake on Sayid's part... maybe not getting Elsa's boss?

Either that or maybe Abaddon getting through to Hurley was what set Sayid off to play the role of executioner again.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Point Place WI on February 14, 2008, 11:16:06 PM
Ben is protecting the other survivors. Either the Oceanic 6 or the people that remained on the island.
Obviously Sayid makes some stupid mistake that gives Ben power over him. I'm sure Desmond has something to do with it too, since they both got on the helicopter.

I have a weird felling that Desmond will be dead by seasons end.  Penny's people will run into Ben's and she's gonna die too.  Just throwing that out there.  He is not one of the Oceanic Six. 
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 14, 2008, 11:17:07 PM
why does ben give a crap about keeping these 6 people alive?  and what did ben mean by "the last time you thought with your heart and not your gun"
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: JBRam on February 14, 2008, 11:18:02 PM
But who does Elsa and Abaddon work for?  I'm assuming they were after Ben (given the info we have so far) and now, they're after Ben's island buddies?  what gives? :-\
I'm guessing Paik/Widmore...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: JBRam on February 14, 2008, 11:18:29 PM
why does ben give a crap about keeping these 6 people alive?  and what did ben mean by "the last time you thought with your heart and not your gun"
He probably went after Nadia when he got out...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Point Place WI on February 14, 2008, 11:18:38 PM
Ben would not send Sayid out to save the Oceanic six if in fact Sayid is one of the survivors.  That would make no sense what-so-ever. 
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: jillybean4u on February 14, 2008, 11:18:40 PM
  I called it though about Ben being Sayid's boss. 
The voice threw me off, at first I thought it could have been Christian.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on February 14, 2008, 11:19:06 PM
why does ben give a crap about keeping these 6 people alive?  and what did ben mean by "the last time you thought with your heart and not your gun"

I think he was talking about, back when he let his woman go from the prison
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: joeboo on February 14, 2008, 11:20:38 PM
How does Ben get off of the island??? ???
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 14, 2008, 11:20:52 PM
why does ben give a crap about keeping these 6 people alive?  and what did ben mean by "the last time you thought with your heart and not your gun"

I think he was talking about, back when he let his woman go from the prison
yeah, but that didn't really effect him too negativly...Bhasra incident?

The only way i can see Sayid working for Ben is due to a common goal... Sayid isn't in it for any money or anything, he has enough of that.  So he must want to take these people down as bad as Ben does, and that is where he gets his info. 
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: FoxyMama on February 14, 2008, 11:22:04 PM
Quote
Ben would not send Sayid out to save the Oceanic six if in fact Sayid is one of the survivors.


Why not?  If Ben is supposedly 'good' then it would make sense that he wants to protect those that he tried to warn.  And if Ben has only 6 to choose from, and we know who 3 of them are, Sayid would make the strongest/most clever assassin, wouldn't he?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: JBRam on February 14, 2008, 11:22:33 PM
Ben is protecting the other survivors. Either the Oceanic 6 or the people that remained on the island.
Obviously Sayid makes some stupid mistake that gives Ben power over him. I'm sure Desmond has something to do with it too, since they both got on the helicopter.

I have a weird felling that Desmond will be dead by seasons end.  Penny's people will run into Ben's and she's gonna die too.  Just throwing that out there.  He is not one of the Oceanic Six. 
He's not Oceanic Six because he wasn't on Oceanic. Ben isn't Oceanic Six either.

Ben would not send Sayid out to save the Oceanic six if in fact Sayid is one of the survivors.  That would make no sense what-so-ever. 
Whatever Ben is doing is "best for the island." Maybe keeping the 6 alive is in the island's best interest somehow.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 14, 2008, 11:24:39 PM
Well...if we know Jack and Hurley want to go back...maybe Sayid is fighting because he sees it as his way to go back..and that is what Ben's main goal is?  But why would killing people accomplish that?  It seems like more of a vendetta...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: E.S.B. on February 14, 2008, 11:27:42 PM
I feel like somehow Ben is manipulating and using Sayid - he had some agenda where he needs these people dead, probably because they're after him and connected to Abaddon, etc., and he's like threatening Sayid with the "you don't want your friends to die, do you" thing.  It's Ben doing what he always does, which is find out what people care about and exploiting it.

And how the heck does Ben get off the Island!!!!
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: FoxyMama on February 14, 2008, 11:28:49 PM
He jumps on the back of one of those Giant Hamsters he's got running the electricity and rides off into the sunset.   ;D
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: dragonflyk on February 14, 2008, 11:32:42 PM
Well...if we know Jack and Hurley want to go back...maybe Sayid is fighting because he sees it as his way to go back..and that is what Ben's main goal is?  But why would killing people accomplish that?  It seems like more of a vendetta...

I think it may be a bit of both... a vendetta and protection...maybe not necessarily the protection of the survivors/ Oceanic Six, but more so the protection of the Island and to get the "evil" away from the Island?

Just a thought... flame away
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: JBRam on February 14, 2008, 11:34:38 PM
Ben is probably eliminating everyone he doesn't like and wants dead. I don't think Sayid is really protecting the 6.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 14, 2008, 11:34:45 PM
I feel like somehow Ben is manipulating and using Sayid - he had some agenda where he needs these people dead, probably because they're after him and connected to Abaddon, etc., and he's like threatening Sayid with the "you don't want your friends to die, do you" thing.  It's Ben doing what he always does, which is find out what people care about and exploiting it.

And how the heck does Ben get off the Island!!!!
Agree all the way.  How DOES Ben get off the island?  If he gets off the same way as the 6, there are too many questions... but obviously he must have several ways of leaving the island, if he wasn't too sad to see the sub go, i now doubt that that is the only way to leave.  maybe he left by his own means, maybe he is the one who took them all to saftey!  No, that's no good...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: E.S.B. on February 14, 2008, 11:40:36 PM
Or maybe Locke didn't really blow up the sub...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: JBRam on February 14, 2008, 11:42:57 PM
I feel like somehow Ben is manipulating and using Sayid - he had some agenda where he needs these people dead, probably because they're after him and connected to Abaddon, etc., and he's like threatening Sayid with the "you don't want your friends to die, do you" thing.  It's Ben doing what he always does, which is find out what people care about and exploiting it.

And how the heck does Ben get off the Island!!!!
Agree all the way.  How DOES Ben get off the island?  If he gets off the same way as the 6, there are too many questions... but obviously he must have several ways of leaving the island, if he wasn't too sad to see the sub go, i now doubt that that is the only way to leave.  maybe he left by his own means, maybe he is the one who took them all to saftey!  No, that's no good...
The still have Des's boat.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 14, 2008, 11:48:22 PM
If he has a man on the boat then he has continued contact with the outside world in some way, so maybe he could just ask for a real rescue boat.  I dunno.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Point Place WI on February 14, 2008, 11:49:27 PM
Yeah I'll pull the crappy storyline out that I think sucks....

It wasn't the real Ben it was Ghost Ben.....

Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: E.S.B. on February 14, 2008, 11:51:37 PM
I feel like somehow Ben is manipulating and using Sayid - he had some agenda where he needs these people dead, probably because they're after him and connected to Abaddon, etc., and he's like threatening Sayid with the "you don't want your friends to die, do you" thing.  It's Ben doing what he always does, which is find out what people care about and exploiting it.

And how the heck does Ben get off the Island!!!!
Agree all the way.  How DOES Ben get off the island?  If he gets off the same way as the 6, there are too many questions... but obviously he must have several ways of leaving the island, if he wasn't too sad to see the sub go, i now doubt that that is the only way to leave.  maybe he left by his own means, maybe he is the one who took them all to saftey!  No, that's no good...
The still have Des's boat.

And he has a compass bearing.  I bet the same bearing he gave Michael to get off the Island is the bearing that Faraday is sending Lapidus on - that's got to be the only way to get out through whatever forcefield is surrounding the Island (or time-altering tractor beam or something).  So Des couldn't leave on his sailboat because he didn't have the right compass bearing.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: lostfan777 on February 15, 2008, 12:11:19 AM
Whatever Ben is doing is "best for the island." Maybe keeping the 6 alive is in the island's best interest somehow.

I think whatever Losties are remaining in the time of these flash forwards now realise that Ben was one of the good guys all along and those that stayed behind are now working with the remnants of the Others to continue protecting the island.  So far, only Kate has been shown to not want any part of it anymore.  I haven't figured out why Jack can't just go back if he knows Ben was right, though.  Maybe because they are so famous now, it would draw too much attention if they just disappeared again, especially all six of them?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: E.S.B. on February 15, 2008, 12:16:09 AM
But Ben has done so much to them, I just can't see them looking at him as a "good guy."  Maybe he is right in some way that the freighter people are "bad," but I think he's still out there serving his own interests in the future and using Sayid as a pawn, somehow.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 15, 2008, 12:17:04 AM
Whatever Ben is doing is "best for the island." Maybe keeping the 6 alive is in the island's best interest somehow.

I think whatever Losties are remaining in the time of these flash forwards now realise that Ben was one of the good guys all along and those that stayed behind are now working with the remnants of the Others to continue protecting the island.  So far, only Kate has been shown to not want any part of it anymore.  I haven't figured out why Jack can't just go back if he knows Ben was right, though.  Maybe because they are so famous now, it would draw too much attention if they just disappeared again, especially all six of them?
I like your thinking here.  Ben was right, as we have seen him "predict the future" in a way before, like telling Jack he may want to come to the island again in that mobisode.  But there must be some key to getting to the island that Jack is missing...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: General Zod on February 15, 2008, 12:24:02 AM
That was kind of surprising when Sayid pulls the gun from the golf bag and shoots the guy.  Probably thought he was one of the guys after him.  It was obvious the guy acted very weird when Sayid told him he was one of the Oceanic 6.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 15, 2008, 12:25:23 AM
yes, he seemed very ready to get out of there.  did anyone catch that guy's name?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: lostfan777 on February 15, 2008, 12:30:28 AM
That was kind of surprising when Sayid pulls the gun from the golf bag and shoots the guy.  Probably thought he was one of the guys after him.  It was obvious the guy acted very weird when Sayid told him he was one of the Oceanic 6.

Sayid didn't think the guy was after him, HE was after the guy.  He was on Ben's list and the guy knew he was in trouble because he somehow knew that the six are related to Ben.

And what WAS his nme, I didn't get it either.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Joseph_Kerr on February 15, 2008, 12:48:42 AM
But "Ben" was using Christian's voice if you pay attention. Is this really Ben or is this Smokey? I don't think its Ben. I suspected Sayidd worked for Ben because of the Lists... but I don't think its Ben.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on February 15, 2008, 01:06:13 AM
Yea at first it sounded like Christian but I think that is because I wanted it to sound like him.  Then after a few sentences I could tell its Ben.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: madmax22e on February 15, 2008, 01:08:04 AM
i could tell it was ben right away. there isnt really any way to make him sound different while they build anticipation. i guess he had the sars medical mask on, that could have changed his voice a bit. but it didnt really.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Austruck on February 15, 2008, 01:09:21 AM
I think Michael Emerson just purposely tried to talk differently early on so that it held the suspense for us as viewers until they revealed his face. I think it was nothing more than that.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: on the island on February 15, 2008, 02:25:14 AM
I feel like somehow Ben is manipulating and using Sayid - he had some agenda where he needs these people dead, probably because they're after him and connected to Abaddon, etc., and he's like threatening Sayid with the "you don't want your friends to die, do you" thing.  It's Ben doing what he always does, which is find out what people care about and exploiting it.

I went back and watched that part. 

Ben: These people don't deserve our sympathies.  Need I remind you what they did the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?
Sayid: You used that to recruit me to killing for you.
Ben: You wanna protect your friends or not Sayid?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: on the island on February 15, 2008, 02:37:03 AM
yes, he seemed very ready to get out of there.  did anyone catch that guy's name?

Mr. Avellino.

Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 15, 2008, 03:30:53 AM
Ben: These people don't deserve our sympathies.  Need I remind you what they did the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?
Sayid: You used that to recruit me to killing for you.
Ben: You wanna protect your friends or not Sayid?
Could this go all the way back to Nadia?  Was Nadia a plant?  I may have to build a case for this one...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Maxor127 on February 15, 2008, 07:38:54 AM
It wasn't Christian's voice.  I could tell it was Ben's voice the whole time.  His voice was just deepened or slowed for some stupid reason, probably just to make it not so obvious until they showed his face.  I agree maybe Ben really was good.  It somehow fits the character and show perfectly.  Of course good is all relative.  He might not be a great guy, but maybe he's the lesser of two evils.  He may seem like a compulsive liar, but I think there's truth just below the surface of everything he says if you read between the lines...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Savior on February 15, 2008, 08:38:44 AM
My thoughts are that Sayid and "Ben" are protecting the people that were left back on the island.  The woman that Sayid killed is prob in league with Abaddon, and he was asking Hurley if there were people still alive on the island.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: opgelost on February 15, 2008, 08:55:12 AM
Is Ben off the island? How did you see that? I thought Sayid was on the island.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: footballmom10 on February 15, 2008, 10:28:39 AM
Is it really Ben?  That would mean that he is not the man in the coffin.  Too bad.  Did Sajid want back on the island as well?  Did he have the wierd stuff happen that Hurley has?

If they don't know Ben's name, and that was the purpose of Elsa hooking up with Sajid (too bad, I liked her), then how did Miles already have a photo and the name of Ben?  Wouldn't a photo be worth much more when you can (and by his California Closet he already has) change your name often.

I'm having an excedrin moment.  My kids understood more about the show than I did.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: footballmom10 on February 15, 2008, 10:35:20 AM

topic already taken...sorry
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: *MaZ* on February 15, 2008, 10:41:11 AM
I'm guessing this means Ben is not the one in the coffin? Or was this ff earlier than the coffin ff?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: lostfan777 on February 15, 2008, 10:43:34 AM
Ben: These people don't deserve our sympathies.  Need I remind you what they did the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?
Sayid: You used that to recruit me to killing for you.
Ben: You wanna protect your friends or not Sayid?
Could this go all the way back to Nadia?  Was Nadia a plant?  I may have to build a case for this one...

If he's referring to Nadia, maybe they kill her after Sayid gets home and finds her.  Or maybe someone on the island dies before the rescue because sayid fails to act fast enough.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Ladybug on February 15, 2008, 10:48:14 AM
Ben would not send Sayid out to save the Oceanic six if in fact Sayid is one of the survivors.  That would make no sense what-so-ever. 
it would work, because he would be the perfect bait for those who are after them to bite on.  only sayid would be prepared.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Ladybug on February 15, 2008, 10:49:22 AM
  I called it though about Ben being Sayid's boss. 
The voice threw me off, at first I thought it could have been Christian.
that's what i kept hoping for!
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Savior on February 15, 2008, 10:52:43 AM
Quote
Ben: These people don't deserve our sympathies.  Need I remind you what they did the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?
Sayid: You used that to recruit me to killing for you.
Ben: You wanna protect your friends or not Sayid

I took this to mean something will happen to him before the oceanic six get off the island.  \

Maybe he lands on the boat and Nadia is there.  Instead of thinking with his "gun", that this cant be right, he thinks with his heart, ie, this is the woman i love.  She ends up killing desmond and he has to kill her.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: lostfan777 on February 15, 2008, 11:04:09 AM
Quote
Ben: These people don't deserve our sympathies.  Need I remind you what they did the last time you thought with your heart instead of your gun?
Sayid: You used that to recruit me to killing for you.
Ben: You wanna protect your friends or not Sayid

I took this to mean something will happen to him before the oceanic six get off the island.  \

Maybe he lands on the boat and Nadia is there.  Instead of thinking with his "gun", that this cant be right, he thinks with his heart, ie, this is the woman i love.  She ends up killing desmond and he has to kill her.

I like it, I think he is almost surely referring to Nadia.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: The_Soilworker on February 15, 2008, 11:09:10 AM
Sayid has to kill everyone of the Hanso Foundation / Dharma Iniative leftovers (involved), So Ben can return safely, and be the king he always wanted to be on his island. for leverage against Sayid, Ben uses the Losties who still are on the island.

Just a theory
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: *MaZ* on February 15, 2008, 11:10:11 AM
Sayid has to kill everyone of the Hanso Foundation / Dharma Iniative leftovers (involved), So Ben can return safely, and be the king he always wanted to be on his island. for leverage against Sayid, Ben uses the Losties who still are on the island.

Just a theory
Good one.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: FoxyMama on February 15, 2008, 11:17:11 AM
I don't think we can assume that Ben isn't the one in the coffin.  We have no idea when Sayid's story takes place in the future, whether it's before or after the coffin part, you know?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Fallybear on February 15, 2008, 11:30:48 AM
But "Ben" was using Christian's voice if you pay attention. Is this really Ben or is this Smokey? I don't think its Ben. I suspected Sayidd worked for Ben because of the Lists... but I don't think its Ben.

I disagree. When I heard the voice before they showed Ben, I thought the voice was clearly Ben's.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: *MaZ* on February 15, 2008, 11:42:56 AM
But "Ben" was using Christian's voice if you pay attention. Is this really Ben or is this Smokey? I don't think its Ben. I suspected Sayidd worked for Ben because of the Lists... but I don't think its Ben.

I disagree. When I heard the voice before they showed Ben, I thought the voice was clearly Ben's.
I'm with you. I knew it was Ben way before they showed his face. The voice was distorted, but the pattern of speech is unmistakable. Definitly Ben all the way.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: FrostyLosty on February 15, 2008, 11:48:35 AM
I took it to mean that Sayid was working to keep the other 5 of the Oceanic 6 alive.  Like perhaps these people they're chasing are a danger to them.
I agree.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: goober on February 15, 2008, 12:00:38 PM
Now I'm thinking that there are three factions involved here.

1) The Island protectors - Ben and the others. Some of the others may be indigeous peoples, but more likely they are survivors of previous shipwrecks, etc. and have found some connection to/with the island in their years there.

2) The Dharma Initiative - a group of scientists/researchers (patsies) that were genuinely interested in divining the island's properties and setting up a utopian community. No evil intent on their part, but they were funded by...

3) Corporate Interest Group - bent on finding ways to use the island for profit, military exploitation, name a bad intent here...

I think Ben found out about the Corporate backing of the Dharma Initiative and determined that the only way to protect the island and Jacob was to get rid of the Dharma-ites.

After what is going to happen on the island has occurred, Ben sets out to get rid of the Corporate backers of the Dharma Inititative. Sayid is somehow convinced to help Ben do this. Don't have any good ideas on how yet.

IMHO
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: sillysab on February 15, 2008, 12:03:51 PM
This whole twist was way too reminiscent of the Alias bad guy to me... Ben as some crazy way too powerful bad guy. I didn't like it at all and not sure if I'll keep watching if this is where the show keeps going. I hope some are right in this thread and it's not really Ben but some apparition of him "haunting" Sayid. There's lots of haunting going on I guess.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: blueeyed2200 on February 15, 2008, 12:30:25 PM
In my opinion, I think at some point, everyone will be forced to work together to defend themselves against whatever type of organization or group the people on the ship are associated with.  With that being said, since Ben supposedly knows more about these people then any of the 815-ers, I think desperate times call for desperate measures and they will be forced to actually hear Ben out and work with him to protect everyone on the island, whether they were on the plane or not.  At this point, Ben's group is in jeopardy, and as little as he may care about the 815-ers, he will realize that he needs their strength to be able to protect him, his people and all the years of research and whatever else his group has been doing on the island.  My prediction is once they work together and the 815-ers see that Ben is actually being truthful in what he has to say about the creepy people on the boat, they will value what Ben has to say more, and they will actually let him be a part of the group instead of just a hostage.  Now what transpires between this and the flash-forward we saw of Sayid working with Ben, NO CLUE.  But I honestly think that the 815-ers working together with the Others to protect the island and those who are on it will open up a new comraderie between the 815-ers and Ben, thus the relationship between Sayid and Ben off the island.  I know the Oceanic 6 plus Ben are not the only ones to survive whatever is going to happen.  But I think that Sayid and Ben are definitely working together to protect whoever is still on the island as well as whatever secrets they may still have regarding what happened on the island and what Ben's group was doing on the island.  Does Jack and Hurley know what Sayid and Ben are doing??  That is my question. . . . I guess only time will tell. 
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: lostfan777 on February 15, 2008, 12:34:00 PM
Now I'm thinking that there are three factions involved here.

1) The Island protectors - Ben and the others. Some of the others may be indigeous peoples, but more likely they are survivors of previous shipwrecks, etc. and have found some connection to/with the island in their years there.

2) The Dharma Initiative - a group of scientists/researchers (patsies) that were genuinely interested in divining the island's properties and setting up a utopian community. No evil intent on their part, but they were funded by...

3) Corporate Interest Group - bent on finding ways to use the island for profit, military exploitation, name a bad intent here...

I think Ben found out about the Corporate backing of the Dharma Initiative and determined that the only way to protect the island and Jacob was to get rid of the Dharma-ites.

After what is going to happen on the island has occurred, Ben sets out to get rid of the Corporate backers of the Dharma Inititative. Sayid is somehow convinced to help Ben do this. Don't have any good ideas on how yet.

IMHO

I've also said this although I had thought the 'evil' group would be separate from Dharma altogether and I had the Losties as a fourth group, currently out of the loop but eventually joining the 'men of faith' Others to protect the island.

Edit: The last post was entered as I was typing this and I totally agree with blueeyed2200 also.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 15, 2008, 01:34:42 PM
In my opinion, I think at some point, everyone will be forced to work together to defend themselves against whatever type of organization or group the people on the ship are associated with.  With that being said, since Ben supposedly knows more about these people then any of the 815-ers, I think desperate times call for desperate measures and they will be forced to actually hear Ben out and work with him to protect everyone on the island, whether they were on the plane or not.  At this point, Ben's group is in jeopardy, and as little as he may care about the 815-ers, he will realize that he needs their strength to be able to protect him, his people and all the years of research and whatever else his group has been doing on the island.  My prediction is once they work together and the 815-ers see that Ben is actually being truthful in what he has to say about the creepy people on the boat, they will value what Ben has to say more, and they will actually let him be a part of the group instead of just a hostage.  Now what transpires between this and the flash-forward we saw of Sayid working with Ben, NO CLUE.  But I honestly think that the 815-ers working together with the Others to protect the island and those who are on it will open up a new comraderie between the 815-ers and Ben, thus the relationship between Sayid and Ben off the island.  I know the Oceanic 6 plus Ben are not the only ones to survive whatever is going to happen.  But I think that Sayid and Ben are definitely working together to protect whoever is still on the island as well as whatever secrets they may still have regarding what happened on the island and what Ben's group was doing on the island.  Does Jack and Hurley know what Sayid and Ben are doing??  That is my question. . . . I guess only time will tell. 
Agreed.  The Losties & the Others are forced to become allies as they realize they have a common enemy.

Now I'm thinking that there are three factions involved here.

1) The Island protectors - Ben and the others. Some of the others may be indigeous peoples, but more likely they are survivors of previous shipwrecks, etc. and have found some connection to/with the island in their years there.

2) The Dharma Initiative - a group of scientists/researchers (patsies) that were genuinely interested in divining the island's properties and setting up a utopian community. No evil intent on their part, but they were funded by...

3) Corporate Interest Group - bent on finding ways to use the island for profit, military exploitation, name a bad intent here...

I think Ben found out about the Corporate backing of the Dharma Initiative and determined that the only way to protect the island and Jacob was to get rid of the Dharma-ites.

After what is going to happen on the island has occurred, Ben sets out to get rid of the Corporate backers of the Dharma Inititative. Sayid is somehow convinced to help Ben do this. Don't have any good ideas on how yet.

IMHO
To piggyback on this....I think the info that the writers have given us in TLE give shed light on what the ultimate purpose of each group is.  I think that Dharma really believes that they were going to "save the world" through their research, whereas the Others either do not want the Island exploited or they simply want the universe to follow its natural, predetermined course.  The men of science/ men of faith theme on its grandest scale.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Asmodean on February 15, 2008, 02:47:25 PM
Run this theory up the chain...
Sayid's first scene is a flash forward.  He tells the guy in the Seychelles (been there/beautiful) he's one of the Oceanic 6.
All the rest of his flashes are flash backs.  Let it sink in.  Think about what, if true, this means.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: lostfan777 on February 15, 2008, 02:53:18 PM
Run this theory up the chain...
Sayid's first scene is a flash forward.  He tells the guy in the Seychelles (been there/beautiful) he's one of the Oceanic 6.
All the rest of his flashes are flash backs.  Let it sink in.  Think about what, if true, this means.

Let me be the first to disagree with this.  Are you saying that sayid worked for Ben trying to eliminate this list of preople before the crash, then made believe he didn't know him and beat him while they were alone in the room in the hatch to maintain his cover?  And then, after the rescue, he went on to continue his assasin work?  C'mon!

I'm sure the writers want to keep an air of mystery, but I doubt they want to confuse us so much that people stop watching the show.  Remember, those of us that come to places like this to get the 'scoop' on things are probably a small minority.  Most viewers will get turned off if they purposefully mix things up like that.  The season ending last year was a WOW! moment and not meant to be expected at every turn.  IMHO
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: blueeyed2200 on February 15, 2008, 03:00:34 PM
Not quite getting what you are getting at, Asmodean??  I mean . . . Didn't he mention something to Elsa about him having money (ie: the settlement money)???  I could be wrong and he could have just told the golfer guy he killed, but I don't see how that would tie in.  Plus he has the same straight and manicured haircut in all of the flashes.  Just my impression
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: laklost on February 15, 2008, 03:02:45 PM
I can't agree with Asmodean - we were seeing life-after-the-island.  If nothing else, his life before the island was not one of designer suits.  He was an ex-soldier, chef, and buddy to a terrorist cell.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Ladybug on February 15, 2008, 03:41:06 PM
Run this theory up the chain...
Sayid's first scene is a flash forward.  He tells the guy in the Seychelles (been there/beautiful) he's one of the Oceanic 6.
All the rest of his flashes are flash backs.  Let it sink in.  Think about what, if true, this means.
so are you saying the rest are flashbacks BEFORE the island, or flashbacks as in BEFORE he killed the guy, AFTER they got off the island?

i'll buy into the later.  so maybe they guy on the golf course is the Economist?  is that guy the one that he was after, HIM?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 15, 2008, 04:01:36 PM
I think if the man he shot on the golf course was the economist he would have recognized sayid.  Since Elsa knew all along what sayid was up to, it only makes sense that the economist would know all about sayid.  The guy on the golf course had no idea.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Asmodean on February 15, 2008, 04:03:02 PM
Not saying I'm buying into it either, completely.  Just something I was thinking about while on flu meds.
The execs did say we'd see both flash fwds and backs in this season.  He did tell Elsa he had money but wasn't specific.  For all we know, that could've been Kelvin money.  He was straight and manicured at the Sydney airport too.
Ben's shown to have many resources in many places.  Everyone has a price.  Maybe Sayid DID sell his soul.
Crazy theory of the day?  Probably.  Goes into my top 5 for episodes.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 15, 2008, 04:05:19 PM
i know what you mean.  but i think so far we have seen episodes with flashbacks (confirmed dead) and episodes with flashforwards (the economist, begining of the end).  So so far i don't think they have had an epsiode featuring both, though thats not to say it wont happen.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: lostfan777 on February 15, 2008, 04:10:54 PM
I think if the man he shot on the golf course was the economist he would have recognized sayid.  Since Elsa knew all along what sayid was up to, it only makes sense that the economist would know all about sayid.  The guy on the golf course had no idea.

The golfer didn't recognise sayid's FACE, but when he heard his name, he certainly got nervous!
Sayid = Oceanic 6 = island = Ben 
This guy is someone who knows, sorry, knew what is going on!
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 15, 2008, 04:13:21 PM
That is true, but Elsa probably was able to snap a photo.  Wouldn't she want her boss to know everything about the man who was going to kill him?  And even so, there were probably photos all over of him newspapers, whatnot.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 15, 2008, 04:14:51 PM
I think if the man he shot on the golf course was the economist he would have recognized sayid.  Since Elsa knew all along what sayid was up to, it only makes sense that the economist would know all about sayid.  The guy on the golf course had no idea.

The golfer didn't recognise sayid's FACE, but when he heard his name, he certainly got nervous!
Sayid = Oceanic 6 = island = Ben 
This guy is someone who knows, sorry, knew what is going on!
Agreed.  His reaction reminded me of the environmental secretary's the 1st time Jin went to deliver a "message."
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Asmodean on February 15, 2008, 04:15:11 PM
Just thought of something else too (yep I'm loopy today).
When Sayid was leaving Sydney, he had the location (Irvine, CA) of Nadia from the Feds.  That would've been his first and last stop after leaving LAX.  Why in the world would he leave the woman he loves to go work for Ben?  He wouldn't. 
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 15, 2008, 04:16:25 PM
well he may have stopped there.  and maybe that was part of what ben meant about thinking with his heart and not his gun.  maybe there was a confrontation when sayid went to visit nadia, which lead him to ben....?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 15, 2008, 04:20:14 PM
Everyone is building my "Nadia is a plant" theory for me!
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on February 15, 2008, 04:27:47 PM
Run this theory up the chain...
Sayid's first scene is a flash forward.  He tells the guy in the Seychelles (been there/beautiful) he's one of the Oceanic 6.
All the rest of his flashes are flash backs.  Let it sink in.  Think about what, if true, this means.

Let me be the first to disagree with this.  Are you saying that sayid worked for Ben trying to eliminate this list of preople before the crash, then made believe he didn't know him and beat him while they were alone in the room in the hatch to maintain his cover?  And then, after the rescue, he went on to continue his assasin work?  C'mon!

I'm sure the writers want to keep an air of mystery, but I doubt they want to confuse us so much that people stop watching the show.  Remember, those of us that come to places like this to get the 'scoop' on things are probably a small minority.  Most viewers will get turned off if they purposefully mix things up like that.  The season ending last year was a WOW! moment and not meant to be expected at every turn.  IMHO

NONONONONO.  There will not be flashback and flashforwards in the same episode.  Also in the flash where they woke up and the shoosting took place.  She mentions the fact that she understands he doesnt want to talk about the crash.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 15, 2008, 06:09:04 PM
All flash forwards, sorry Asmodean.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: laklost on February 15, 2008, 10:20:05 PM
And flashforwards showing his eventual moral decline - like Jack and Hurley before him.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 15, 2008, 11:26:39 PM
Yeah, these three need redemption as much as, or more than, ever.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: stefward on February 15, 2008, 11:38:58 PM
maybe Ben is the lessor of 2 evils so sayid is working with him for the mutual goal of helping people who did not escape but probably include bens pretend daughter???
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 15, 2008, 11:51:54 PM
Welcome, Stef!

I wouldn't be surprised if the deal the O6 make has something to do with keeping the folks who remain on the Island alive, so, yeah, I agree.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 16, 2008, 03:53:57 PM
My crackpot theory du jour is that Sayid is like Anakin Skywalker & Ben is like Darth Sidious.  Either Sayid was manipulated into thinking that the only way to save Nadia was to turn to the dark side, but it ultimately killed her OR Sayid just gave up all hope once he learned that Nadia was a plant all along.

Sayid & Ben seem to have a very Darth Vader/ Emperor-esque relationship & with all the other Star Wars shout-outs I thought this was worth throwing out there.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: laklost on February 16, 2008, 04:06:33 PM
My crackpot theory du jour is that Sayid is like Anakin Skywalker & Ben is like Darth Sidious.  Either Sayid was manipulated into thinking that the only way to save Nadia was to turn to the dark side, but it ultimately killed her OR Sayid just gave up all hope once he learned that Nadia was a plant all along.

Sayid & Ben seem to have a very Darth Vader/ Emperor-esque relationship & with all the other Star Wars shout-outs I thought this was worth throwing out there.

Thank you, PRINCESS LEIA!!!

I don't mind that analysis at all ~ Love, Chewbacca
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 16, 2008, 04:13:45 PM
My crackpot theory du jour is that Sayid is like Anakin Skywalker & Ben is like Darth Sidious.  Either Sayid was manipulated into thinking that the only way to save Nadia was to turn to the dark side, but it ultimately killed her OR Sayid just gave up all hope once he learned that Nadia was a plant all along.

Sayid & Ben seem to have a very Darth Vader/ Emperor-esque relationship & with all the other Star Wars shout-outs I thought this was worth throwing out there.

Thank you, PRINCESS LEIA!!!

I don't mind that analysis at all ~ Love, Chewbacca
I had to go there! :D

Hey- you'll appreciate this one.  I was describing the Island to someone the other day as possibly a "Wood Between the Worlds."  But since they hadn't read The Magician's Nephew, I had to use the white hallway from The Matrix as an example. :D
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: laklost on February 16, 2008, 04:18:12 PM
My crackpot theory du jour is that Sayid is like Anakin Skywalker & Ben is like Darth Sidious.  Either Sayid was manipulated into thinking that the only way to save Nadia was to turn to the dark side, but it ultimately killed her OR Sayid just gave up all hope once he learned that Nadia was a plant all along.

Sayid & Ben seem to have a very Darth Vader/ Emperor-esque relationship & with all the other Star Wars shout-outs I thought this was worth throwing out there.

Thank you, PRINCESS LEIA!!!

I don't mind that analysis at all ~ Love, Chewbacca
I had to go there! :D

Hey- you'll appreciate this one.  I was describing the Island to someone the other day as possibly a "Wood Between the Worlds."  But since they hadn't read The Magician's Nephew, I had to use the white hallway from The Matrix as an example. :D

Total thumbs up from me.  Wood between the Worlds, Matrix's white hallway, island's specific bearings.  It's all good to me.

So, delineate for me, your Royal Cinnabun-ness, what are the two worlds the island is between?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 16, 2008, 04:22:38 PM
My crackpot theory du jour is that Sayid is like Anakin Skywalker & Ben is like Darth Sidious.  Either Sayid was manipulated into thinking that the only way to save Nadia was to turn to the dark side, but it ultimately killed her OR Sayid just gave up all hope once he learned that Nadia was a plant all along.

Sayid & Ben seem to have a very Darth Vader/ Emperor-esque relationship & with all the other Star Wars shout-outs I thought this was worth throwing out there.

Thank you, PRINCESS LEIA!!!

I don't mind that analysis at all ~ Love, Chewbacca
I had to go there! :D

Hey- you'll appreciate this one.  I was describing the Island to someone the other day as possibly a "Wood Between the Worlds."  But since they hadn't read The Magician's Nephew, I had to use the white hallway from The Matrix as an example. :D

Total thumbs up from me.  Wood between the Worlds, Matrix's white hallway, island's specific bearings.  It's all good to me.

So, delineate for me, your Royal Cinnabun-ness, what are the two worlds the island is between?
Not just 2, as I'm a subscriber to the Vile Vortices theory. :)
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: laklost on February 16, 2008, 04:26:26 PM
My crackpot theory du jour is that Sayid is like Anakin Skywalker & Ben is like Darth Sidious.  Either Sayid was manipulated into thinking that the only way to save Nadia was to turn to the dark side, but it ultimately killed her OR Sayid just gave up all hope once he learned that Nadia was a plant all along.

Sayid & Ben seem to have a very Darth Vader/ Emperor-esque relationship & with all the other Star Wars shout-outs I thought this was worth throwing out there.

Thank you, PRINCESS LEIA!!!

I don't mind that analysis at all ~ Love, Chewbacca
I had to go there! :D

Hey- you'll appreciate this one.  I was describing the Island to someone the other day as possibly a "Wood Between the Worlds."  But since they hadn't read The Magician's Nephew, I had to use the white hallway from The Matrix as an example. :D

Total thumbs up from me.  Wood between the Worlds, Matrix's white hallway, island's specific bearings.  It's all good to me.

So, delineate for me, your Royal Cinnabun-ness, what are the two worlds the island is between?
Not just 2, as I'm a subscriber to the Vile Vortices theory. :)

Ahh ha.  Could you link us up to that?  Didn't T Mack spell that out?  Where did I put that thread?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 16, 2008, 04:28:57 PM
My crackpot theory du jour is that Sayid is like Anakin Skywalker & Ben is like Darth Sidious.  Either Sayid was manipulated into thinking that the only way to save Nadia was to turn to the dark side, but it ultimately killed her OR Sayid just gave up all hope once he learned that Nadia was a plant all along.

Sayid & Ben seem to have a very Darth Vader/ Emperor-esque relationship & with all the other Star Wars shout-outs I thought this was worth throwing out there.

Thank you, PRINCESS LEIA!!!

I don't mind that analysis at all ~ Love, Chewbacca
I had to go there! :D

Hey- you'll appreciate this one.  I was describing the Island to someone the other day as possibly a "Wood Between the Worlds."  But since they hadn't read The Magician's Nephew, I had to use the white hallway from The Matrix as an example. :D

Total thumbs up from me.  Wood between the Worlds, Matrix's white hallway, island's specific bearings.  It's all good to me.

So, delineate for me, your Royal Cinnabun-ness, what are the two worlds the island is between?
Not just 2, as I'm a subscriber to the Vile Vortices theory. :)

Ahh ha.  Could you link us up to that?  Didn't T Mack spell that out?  Where did I put that thread?
T mack may have.  I agree with many of his ideas. :D  But the 1st I heard speak of it on here was Jordan, & that was last year sometime. 

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Vile_Vortices


ps- happy theorizing, Lakie!  I'm off to ride bikes with the kiddos!
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: laklost on February 16, 2008, 04:39:40 PM
Excellent.  I do remember reading that last year.  I'm with you.  Not one entry point, but 12.  How many passports did Ben have?  ;)

Have a fun bike ride!  (She must live in CA - no bike riding here today...)
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: footballmom10 on February 16, 2008, 10:52:43 PM
I have a question but don't want to start a new topic.

They showed us a picture of a plane at the bottom of the ocean, the helicopter arrives, and there's the oceanic 6.

How can only six people survive a plane crash in which the plane stayed largely intact or, on the other hand, how could anybody survive a large jet hitting the water and then sinking to the bottom of the ocean. 

The two notions (all 815'ers dead and oceanic 6) don't go together and I didn't see anybody really discuss this on last weeks stuff or this week. ??? ???

Are they going to say...ooopppss, we were wrong, six people from different spots in the cabin (one handcuffed), managed to jump from the plane before it hit, inflate a raft, float without water to an island, live there for a long time, until a boat came along. ;D ;D

The video feed of the plane and the idea of the oceanic 6 don't go together (sesame street).  Two different stories/realities?  (I read the Puff stuff and it's what my husband and I now think is occurring). ::)
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 16, 2008, 11:12:44 PM
I don't think any of us have a particularly good guess about this, though we did discuss it a couple of weeks or so ago. Could have been before the season opener, so you might not have picked up on those threads. Doesn't much matter as we didn't come to any real conclusion.

It seems likely that the powers in control of the coverup will find some means to work the miraculous escape of six passengers into their story, but just how or why they do that... we dunno.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Gmonkey on February 17, 2008, 06:54:58 AM
Yeah, these three need redemption as much as, or more than, ever.


my belief why they are on the island is for redemption....and they will need it more than ever once they leave and realize that
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: sillysab on February 18, 2008, 01:22:31 PM
"He'll be wondering where I am." -Kate Last epi season 3
I bet Kate is working for ben too!
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: jugdish on February 18, 2008, 01:37:11 PM
"He'll be wondering where I am." -Kate Last epi season 3
I bet Kate is working for ben too!

That is another good possibility,

We have Kate could be with
a) a lover
b) a baby
c) working for ben,

My guess is a kid.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: footballmom10 on February 18, 2008, 03:20:43 PM
what is the vile vortices theory?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 18, 2008, 03:33:28 PM
what is the vile vortices theory?

http://www.lostpedia.com/wiki/Vile_Vortices
bump
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Ladybug on February 18, 2008, 04:31:43 PM
"He'll be wondering where I am." -Kate Last epi season 3
I bet Kate is working for ben too!
oooh   i kind of like this one.  maybe kate & sayid are working for ben.  jack isn't because he is a reject (in ben's mind), and hurley is to messed up. 

but i still think it's a kid she's going home to.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: footballmom10 on February 18, 2008, 05:29:28 PM
Judging by how Sajid pushed Naomi's eyes down and how Sajid wants to get to the ship, I think that Sajid has ALWAYS been working for Ben.  So, Nadia's the girl Ben was referring to.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on February 18, 2008, 05:47:35 PM
That Kate may also be working for Ben is a delicious deduction, if true. The way she said 'He'll miss me' didn't strike me as fearful, tho, as she would've been had she gone off-leash from Ben to meet Jack.  Or, if a lover, perhaps he is a himbo equivalent of Elsie, and 'the Economist' is hoping Kate spills some beans when she talks in her sleep.  If her son, then he'd have to be a few years old to be able to 'wonder where Mommy is'; if the kid were an infant, she probably would've said just 'he'll miss me'.  I'm not convinced that the writers, who across the first half of the show kept the narrative to a timespan of just 3 months,  will so stretch out the story's timeline so far to accomodate Kate having two, three or four-year old. 

So, I'm voting for a himbo spy.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: footballmom10 on February 18, 2008, 10:25:12 PM
I haven't heard is said yet that the six all made it back at the same time, but I guess that's assumed.  It just seemed like Jack and Hurley were in different stages of getting back to life.  I don't know. 

Anyway, I bet that Kate not only works for Ben, but is her honey!  She doesn't want to get back to the island and Jack doesn't want to go back by the help of Ben but can't himself.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: E.S.B. on February 18, 2008, 10:57:01 PM
The idea of Kate working for Ben is a neat idea, but I can't see it.  She's way too independent.  Sayid, on the other hand, is more of a "good soldier" than anything else.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: footballmom10 on February 18, 2008, 11:02:19 PM
Kate is a utilitarian.  The ends by any, any, means.  She is named after Kate Austin, the famous anarchist of my gender and it is her ability to rationalize her chaos that is most interesting and dangerous.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: laklost on February 19, 2008, 12:35:15 AM
Kate is a utilitarian.  The ends by any, any, means.  She is named after Kate Austin, the famous anarchist of my gender and it is her ability to rationalize her chaos that is most interesting and dangerous.

That's about the best statement I have read about Kate's character.  Much better than the "hottie fugitive"  :P.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: footballmom10 on February 19, 2008, 01:15:56 PM
Kate is evil.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: lostfan777 on February 19, 2008, 02:46:32 PM
Kate is evil.

Evil Hottie!
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: laklost on February 19, 2008, 02:53:30 PM
Kate is hot.  Kate has done evil things.  Kate is not evil.  Kate has asked for forgiveness.  Kate needs to do better.  Kate is trying.

Hot formerly evil fugitive wrestling with the variables of reform

Put that in a caption.  :D
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on February 19, 2008, 03:42:17 PM
I have ANOTHER possibility concerning who Kate's 'he' may be.  When she returns as an Oceanic 6, there's no way the Feds didn't recognize their fugitive.  How could she meet Jack at the airport if she were back in the hoosegow?  Clearly, the authorities have either reduced her sentence to probation, or she had already had a trial and got off somehow (justifiable homicide?).  That would leave her a free woman.  To go on Oprah and seek forgiveness. To give 'ole Kevin a second try.  She could fly him out from Miami, and he could get a job with the LAPD.  Kevin could be Kate's 'he'.

Kate's training in the real world - tracking lore learned from her father, poise & cunning learned from her con lifestyle - was perfectly suited for the rigors of island castaway life.  But now in the real world again, no longer a fugitive, her transition back to a 'normal' person must be difficult.  Can she possibly settle down?  She may be like a homeless person who has been homeless so long that, even given an apartment to stay in, ends up back on the street. Can Kate rewire her brain to find happiness with, as Bilbo Baggins described it, the simple life?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: laklost on February 20, 2008, 01:30:52 PM
I have ANOTHER possibility concerning who Kate's 'he' may be.  When she returns as an Oceanic 6, there's no way the Feds didn't recognize their fugitive.  How could she meet Jack at the airport if she's were back in the hoosegow?  Clearly, the authorities have either reduced her sentence to probation, or she had already had a trial and got off somehow (justifiable homicide?).  That would leave her a free woman.  To go on Oprah and seek forgiveness. To give 'ole Kevin a second try.  She could fly him out from Miami, and he could get a job with the LAPD.  Kevin could be Kate's 'he'.

Kate's training in the real world - tracking lore learned from her father, poise & cunning learned from her con lifestyle - was perfectly suited for the rigors of island castaway life.  But now in the real world again, no longer a fugitive, her transition back to a 'normal' person must be difficult.  Can she possibly settle down?  She may be like a homeless person who has been homeless so long that, even given an apartment to stay in, ends up back on the street. Can Kate rewire her brain to find happiness with, as Bilbo Baggins described it, the simple life?

I love this post.  You have perfectly summarized Kate's dilemma.  And I love the idea that Kevin is still with her.  Thanks, LOA!
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: nomteticus on February 20, 2008, 07:12:15 PM
About Kate's redemption...
I'm not sure, but if someone is declared dead isn't he absolved of his sentence, even if (s)he "comes back to life"?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: E-Rich on February 20, 2008, 07:15:19 PM
About Kate's redemption...
I'm not sure, but if someone is declared dead isn't he absolved of his sentence, even if (s)he "comes back to life"?
excellent point.....i don't know if it is 100% true - but a good point.  I think they still go through with her trial though....
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on February 20, 2008, 07:45:46 PM
All it would take is for a prosecutor to present evidence that she is indeed alive, and surely a judge could overturn a coroner's prior declaration of a person's death. 
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: footballmom10 on February 20, 2008, 08:19:20 PM
Kate's evil.  Ben (or Abaddon) will get her out of her legal stuff if only she makes her deal with the devil and starts doing their bidding (or agrees not to tell anyone about the island).
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Asmodean on February 20, 2008, 09:40:05 PM
I dunno.  I think her island time has made her a worker in the light.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: LouE68 on February 20, 2008, 11:48:10 PM
To get back to the original question, Sayid is a follower(soldier), Ben is a leader...I know it sounds kind of complex, but thats as simple as I can make it...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: laklost on February 20, 2008, 11:57:02 PM
And Cowboy gets 10 points for getting us back on topic about Sayid in a thread about Ben being Sayid's boss!
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on February 21, 2008, 12:18:08 AM
Although about Kate, this could equally be about Sayid:      ;) ;) ;) ;)
Kate's evil. 

I think her [Kate's] island time has made her a worker in the light.

How easy it is to employ a yin-yang, dualist, good vs. evil lens to evaluate our Losties.  I prefer to hope that TPTB are alluding to a wave-particle duality (http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/w/wave-particle_duality.htm) in which we move beyond a discredited dialectical materialism.  How else to explain a serial killer/torturer who just may be serving noble purposes?
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: laklost on February 21, 2008, 12:20:45 AM
Although about Kate, this could equally be about Sayid:                ;) ;) ;) ;)
Kate's evil. 

I think her [Kate's] island time has made her a worker in the light.

How easy it is to employ a yin-yang, dualist, good vs. evil lens to evaluate our Losties.  I prefer to hope that TPTB are alluding to a wave-particle duality (http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/w/wave-particle_duality.htm) in which we move beyond a discredited dialectical materialism.  How else to explain a serial killer/torturer who just may be serving noble purposes?


Wow.  Here I saw you on and was gonna say, Howdy, Lion!  But I feel sort of like SpongeBob now because you said "discredited dialectical materialism."  :P

*slinking away to the kids room...*
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: LouE68 on February 21, 2008, 12:38:53 AM
Denghit I thought it was Jung and the duality of man....
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: footballmom10 on February 21, 2008, 12:43:55 AM
Ben as a boss would be like that episode of the Family Guy where Stewie loans Brian money and in return, Brian has to work it off by being a telemarketer for some ponzi scheme business the baby has created.  It was on tbs two nights ago.  Priceless.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: LouE68 on February 21, 2008, 01:05:23 AM
Ben as a boss would be like that episode of the Family Guy where Stewie loans Brian money and in return, Brian has to work it off by being a telemarketer for some ponzi scheme business the baby has created.  It was on tbs two nights ago.  Priceless.
hmm I guess it would help if I watched FamilyGuy....I don't get it...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Maxor127 on February 21, 2008, 01:33:21 AM
I think Kate's "he" was a kid she had with Sawyer and I think Sawyer is either dead or left on the island.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on February 21, 2008, 01:50:58 AM

Wow.  Here I saw you on and was gonna say, Howdy, Lion!  But I feel sort of like SpongeBob now because you said "discredited dialectical materialism."  :P

*slinking away to the kids room...*

 :o  I just had to incorporate a little Marxism somehow, having been inspired by Damon & Carlton's amusing Podcast discussion of Politburo members & polar bears.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: KateReallyLovesJack on February 21, 2008, 02:18:58 AM
I can't make up my mind...

Ben to Sayid "Do you want to protect your friends or not, Sayid?"

What friends is he talking about? The Six? Or the ones left on the island? I've been going over that one now for the last week and can't come to any conclusion...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: LouE68 on February 21, 2008, 02:20:13 AM
I can't make up my mind...

Ben to Sayid "Do you want to protect your friends or not, Sayid?"

What friends is he talking about? The Six? Or the ones left on the island? I've been going over that one now for the last week and can't come to any conclusion...
Juliet made it perfectly clear...he's a liar, or he may be telling the truth...we just dont know LOL
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: KateReallyLovesJack on February 21, 2008, 02:27:21 AM
The one and only thing I can come up with for this one is that the Oceanic Six are now such public figures - signing autographs kind of famous - I don't think that anybody would get away with 'getting rid' of them.
The ones on the island however... people don't even believe they're alive and if somebody is trying to cover it up, they certainly don't want the survivors coming back and telling their stories...

So, based on that and that alone, I'm thinking that Sayid is actually protecting his 'friends' on the island... I don't think the Oceanic Six needs that kind of protection.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Lion of Atreides on February 21, 2008, 02:36:46 AM
It could go either way. Sayid's friends could mean Bernard, Rose & company on the island, or the Oceanic 6.  The Oceanic 6 may not need protection from violence - Abaddon just seems to loom -  but they may need protection from rampant insanity (half of those shown so far have been shown to have gone bonkers). 
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: KateReallyLovesJack on February 21, 2008, 02:44:46 AM
Nice - protection from rampant insanity!  :D
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: footballmom10 on February 21, 2008, 09:43:30 AM
Ben as a boss would be like that episode of the Family Guy where Stewie loans Brian money and in return, Brian has to work it off by being a telemarketer for some ponzi scheme business the baby has created.  It was on tbs two nights ago.  Priceless.
hmm I guess it would help if I watched FamilyGuy....I don't get it...

Broaden your horizons.  Roll a big one and turn on a Family Guy marathon.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: lostfan777 on February 21, 2008, 11:04:58 AM
Ben as a boss would be like that episode of the Family Guy where Stewie loans Brian money and in return, Brian has to work it off by being a telemarketer for some ponzi scheme business the baby has created.  It was on tbs two nights ago.  Priceless.
hmm I guess it would help if I watched FamilyGuy....I don't get it...

Broaden your horizons.  Roll a big one and turn on a Family Guy marathon.

Hey!  I thought you said your kids read these pages!  Shame, shame!   ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: lostfan777 on February 21, 2008, 11:10:02 AM
About Kate's redemption...
I'm not sure, but if someone is declared dead isn't he absolved of his sentence, even if (s)he "comes back to life"?

This is off topic in this thread, but no, a person isn't excused from a crime just because someone mistakenly declares them dead.  You may be thinking of 'double jeopardy' where if a person is aquitted of a crime and then new evidence turns up that proves them guilty, they cannot be tried again, no matter how damning the evidence.  This is why many prosecutors will not go forward with a murder case if they don't have a body (like the unfortunate Natalie Holloway case in Aruba).  They fear that they will lose and if the body turns up later, it's too late.

OK, sorry, now back to our regularly scheduled program, "Who's the boss" already in progress.......
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: LouE68 on February 21, 2008, 09:45:13 PM
I was just rewatching and Sayid to Locke says the day he starts trusting Ben, is the day he sells his soul...just thought it interesting and worth repeating...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 22, 2008, 04:16:44 AM
I'm telling you!  It's Anakin & Palpatine!
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Asmodean on February 22, 2008, 01:52:13 PM
I'm calling my uncle George to confirm...
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 22, 2008, 02:30:32 PM
As in Lucas?  LOL
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Asmodean on February 22, 2008, 03:13:57 PM
Yeah, but shhhhhh. ;)
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 22, 2008, 03:28:56 PM
Wow.  Our very own Lost connection, because Darth Vader is my daddy. ::)
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Asmodean on February 22, 2008, 08:04:05 PM
I knew we had to be connected somehow.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: nikarro on February 23, 2008, 01:12:54 PM
Wow.  Our very own Lost connection, because Darth Vader is my daddy. ::)

HOLY CRAP, that makes you my SECOND cousin....Once removed!
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: Asmodean on February 23, 2008, 02:41:36 PM
Plus you being in Pennsyltucky and me being from WV...See you at Skywalker Ranch on the 15th brotha.
Title: Re: Why is Ben Sayids Boss off the island?
Post by: LostinLock on December 24, 2008, 02:04:21 PM
This is interesting now that it is in a different perspective, but he, Ben, just make be speaking of both 06 and island folks.