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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 4 => Episode 4x02 => Topic started by: nikarro on February 08, 2008, 11:18:54 PM

Title: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: nikarro on February 08, 2008, 11:18:54 PM
Jack and Hurley's Flashforward Episodes seem to me as though they are not as far in the future of them as people as we think.  What I mean is they have been off the island a little while but maybe far more time has passed in the real world during the hundred or so days they were on the island.  Lots of things support this I think, and in connection to this episode, somehow in 90 days the plane crashes, then later found and then Naomi and that Abbaddon guy put this team together then organize everything just right WHILE Ben is somehow figuring it all out enough to put someone on their boat....ALL in 90 days?  Maybe not, maybe it has been much longer that they have actually been on the island and a lot of time has passed in the real world.  I like the theory too that Micheal is on the freighter, and if he has been off of the island for a longer time than we think, than maybe that is possible....
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 08, 2008, 11:21:21 PM
Whenever the "time passes differently" theory comes up I ask how Charlie was able to have a realtime conversation with Penny..... ;)
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: Creflo on February 08, 2008, 11:33:55 PM
Their conversation does not necessarily discount the time passing differently.  Obviously, we can't tell how much time has passed for her, and it's not as if she'd have aged considerably.  We may be only talking about half-time for Island inhabitants.

If you mean that their conversation would be distorted because Charlie would sound like a 33 1/3 and Penny would be a 78 speed, I would explain it be blaming the digital transmission method.  You can see that her image is boxy like watching a crummy bootleg DVD (not that anyone here would do that) or poor satellite signal.  Digital video is sent in packets, even when it's streaming live.   It would be like little 5-second clips sent sequentially and reassembled, rather than like an analog radio broadcast or something subject to the Doppler Effect.

Really, I'm only attempting to explain away a very real inconsistentcy that you brilliantly point out.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on February 08, 2008, 11:49:58 PM
I dont think that the time is different on and off the island.  I think 90 days is plenty of time for the cover up and the rescue mission to start.


I dont believe in any of the alternate timeline and all that other mess, that is talked about on this site. 
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: thebeann on February 08, 2008, 11:53:24 PM
But if that WERE true...and time was only somewhat different (not like 10 years had passed in 90 days, but more like...180 days or something like that)...how BORING would that be???

It would only be cool if it were a huge difference, like they came back and it was 20 years later. But then wouldn't people notice they hadn't aged? Oh, and Penny didn't age either! So it must not be a huge difference...and again...zzzzz

I agree that the timeline is stable. Okay, Desmond went back in time once, but THAT'S IT!

Now...multiple parallel universes...MAYBE!  ;)
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 09, 2008, 12:16:34 AM

If you mean that their conversation would be distorted because Charlie would sound like a 33 1/3 and Penny would be a 78 speed, I would explain it be blaming the digital transmission method.  You can see that her image is boxy like watching a crummy bootleg DVD (not that anyone here would do that) or poor satellite signal.  Digital video is sent in packets, even when it's streaming live.   It would be like little 5-second clips sent sequentially and reassembled, rather than like an analog radio broadcast or something subject to the Doppler Effect.

Really, I'm only attempting to explain away a very real inconsistentcy that you brilliantly point out.

This is what I meant and while your explanation is clever it doesn't really work. It'd still take her twice as long to say the words and the packets can't arrive faster than she says them....
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 09, 2008, 01:29:48 AM
But if that WERE true...and time was only somewhat different (not like 10 years had passed in 90 days, but more like...180 days or something like that)...how BORING would that be???

It would only be cool if it were a huge difference, like they came back and it was 20 years later. But then wouldn't people notice they hadn't aged? Oh, and Penny didn't age either! So it must not be a huge difference...and again...zzzzz

I agree that the timeline is stable. Okay, Desmond went back in time once, but THAT'S IT!

Now...multiple parallel universes...MAYBE!  ;)
Adam & Eve= Des & Pen?   Maybe! :D
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: Blackrock Bob on February 09, 2008, 09:58:31 AM
We saw Randy filming Hurley's car chase. Randy was working another goofy job at a cheap Best Buy type place.
Also Hurley ran into Big Mike and he asked about Anna-Lucia.

It can't be that far in the future. I would say that Hurley's flashforward was somewhere close to real time. No more than a year or so after the crash, but probably the same as Island time.

I imagine that Hurley's flashback was within a few months of them making it back, while Jacks was around a year or so.
Jack had been flying a lot, grew the beard and changed his mind about going back. Jack doesn't change his mind that easily. I imagine it took some time, and some visions for him to want to go baaaack.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 09, 2008, 12:24:41 PM
Bob, it's pretty certain that weird beardy Jack is 2007 or later. When the finale aired people around here recognized car and cell phone models. Also the surrounding stories to the Obit in the paper were actual stories in the LA Times c. Spring '07.

I bet you're right about Hurley's flash being very near future, so then we're probably looking at another two years before the finale's flash forward.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: puff6962 on February 09, 2008, 12:50:36 PM
Information sent from different bodies travelling at different velocities is subject to the doppler effect whether travelling in a doppler or analog format.  The information in a digital broadcast would be completely normal, but would arrive at either a higher frequency or lower frequency signal depending on whether you were travelling towards or away from the broadcast respectively. 

I have been trying to find landmarks to compare time and I think that the writers have been very careful on this point....even misleading.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: Ladybug on February 11, 2008, 10:52:47 AM
I dont think that the time is different on and off the island.  I think 90 days is plenty of time for the cover up and the rescue mission to start.


I dont believe in any of the alternate timeline and all that other mess, that is talked about on this site. 
i agree with you. 

1.  charlie talked to penny on or around 12/21/2004 (91 days on the island)
2.  hurley imagined dead charlie sometime between rescue and 2007, when jack made the call on his 2007 cell phone with his overgrown beard.
3.  jack met with kate/went to funeral in 2007 (my guess is that the actual date to be may ??, 2007 (whatever date that specific episode first aired.)
4.  when it's 2004 on the island it's 2004 off the island.  BUT when we see stuff OFF THE ISLAND, they are either flashforwarding or flashbacking, so a different time is being shown.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: jugdish on February 11, 2008, 03:03:23 PM
I am in the middle, the producers said there is something funny with time. But no way is it all about multiple timelines.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 11, 2008, 06:17:28 PM


1.  charlie talked to penny on or around 12/21/2004 (91 days on the island)
2.  hurley imagined dead charlie sometime between rescue and 2007, when jack made the call on his 2007 cell phone with his overgrown beard.
3.  jack met with kate/went to funeral in 2007 (my guess is that the actual date to be may ??, 2007 (whatever date that specific episode first aired.)
4.  when it's 2004 on the island it's 2004 off the island.  BUT when we see stuff OFF THE ISLAND, they are either flashforwarding or flashbacking, so a different time is being shown.

Good summary, LB, I agree completely.

Hey, shouldn't it be Christmas pretty soon! That's actually relevant. If the Dream team and the Losties agree on Xmas it'll be more confirmation time has moved the same on and off island.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: E-Rich on February 11, 2008, 11:12:36 PM
I dont think that the time is different on and off the island.  I think 90 days is plenty of time for the cover up and the rescue mission to start.


I dont believe in any of the alternate timeline and all that other mess, that is talked about on this site. 
i agree with you. 

1.  charlie talked to penny on or around 12/21/2004 (91 days on the island)
2.  hurley imagined dead charlie sometime between rescue and 2007, when jack made the call on his 2007 cell phone with his overgrown beard.
3.  jack met with kate/went to funeral in 2007 (my guess is that the actual date to be may ??, 2007 (whatever date that specific episode first aired.)
4.  when it's 2004 on the island it's 2004 off the island.  BUT when we see stuff OFF THE ISLAND, they are either flashforwarding or flashbacking, so a different time is being shown.

Why does everyone think Jack's Razr is a 2007 model?  The first model came out several years before...he could easily be talking ALOT earlier than 2007.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_RAZR
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on February 12, 2008, 03:52:16 AM
because he wasnt talking on a Razr it was a KRZR which came out at the end of 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_KRZR_K1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_KRZR_K1)
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: CurtYanko on February 12, 2008, 10:26:15 AM
Whenever the "time passes differently" theory comes up I ask how Charlie was able to have a realtime conversation with Penny..... ;)

Can you elaborate on this? Do you mean the looking glass??
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: Ladybug on February 12, 2008, 10:28:19 AM


1.  charlie talked to penny on or around 12/21/2004 (91 days on the island)
2.  hurley imagined dead charlie sometime between rescue and 2007, when jack made the call on his 2007 cell phone with his overgrown beard.
3.  jack met with kate/went to funeral in 2007 (my guess is that the actual date to be may ??, 2007 (whatever date that specific episode first aired.)
4.  when it's 2004 on the island it's 2004 off the island.  BUT when we see stuff OFF THE ISLAND, they are either flashforwarding or flashbacking, so a different time is being shown.

Good summary, LB, I agree completely.

Hey, shouldn't it be Christmas pretty soon! That's actually relevant. If the Dream team and the Losties agree on Xmas it'll be more confirmation time has moved the same on and off island.
hmm....  i hadn't thought of this!  good thoughts!  i hope they can agree on Christmas, so that we can establish they are on the same timeline!
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: nikarro on February 12, 2008, 03:09:35 PM
Whenever the "time passes differently" theory comes up I ask how Charlie was able to have a realtime conversation with Penny..... ;)



Because he was NO LONGER on the island...
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: jugdish on February 12, 2008, 03:11:32 PM
Whenever the "time passes differently" theory comes up I ask how Charlie was able to have a realtime conversation with Penny..... ;)



Because he was NO LONGER on the island...

Then how did his two female captors and Patchy talk to Ben who was on the island?
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: T Mack on February 12, 2008, 04:25:11 PM
But if that WERE true...and time was only somewhat different (not like 10 years had passed in 90 days, but more like...180 days or something like that)...how BORING would that be???

It would only be cool if it were a huge difference, like they came back and it was 20 years later. But then wouldn't people notice they hadn't aged? Oh, and Penny didn't age either! So it must not be a huge difference...and again...zzzzz

I agree that the timeline is stable. Okay, Desmond went back in time once, but THAT'S IT!

Now...multiple parallel universes...MAYBE!  ;)
You can't seriously mean that if in fact you were able to 'time travel' even one day into the future or back into the past to know what was happening tomorrow or to try to 'change' things that happened yesterday, that it wouldn't be the most far out, cool, and explosive thing to ever happen to mankind?

With only one day's notice, one could change world events, become a soothsayer, win lotteries, and save lives.  The fact that the story of Lost is "messing with time" somehow cannot be denied. How and why it is being done is still a mystery, but even if it were for a short period of a year, it would be a major breakthrough for science, and certainly a game changer for the rest of the world.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: thebeann on February 12, 2008, 04:56:13 PM
But if that WERE true...and time was only somewhat different (not like 10 years had passed in 90 days, but more like...180 days or something like that)...how BORING would that be???

It would only be cool if it were a huge difference, like they came back and it was 20 years later. But then wouldn't people notice they hadn't aged? Oh, and Penny didn't age either! So it must not be a huge difference...and again...zzzzz

I agree that the timeline is stable. Okay, Desmond went back in time once, but THAT'S IT!

Now...multiple parallel universes...MAYBE!  ;)
You can't seriously mean that if in fact you were able to 'time travel' even one day into the future or back into the past to know what was happening tomorrow or to try to 'change' things that happened yesterday, that it wouldn't be the most far out, cool, and explosive thing to ever happen to mankind?

With only one day's notice, one could change world events, become a soothsayer, win lotteries, and save lives.  The fact that the story of Lost is "messing with time" somehow cannot be denied. How and why it is being done is still a mystery, but even if it were for a short period of a year, it would be a major breakthrough for science, and certainly a game changer for the rest of the world.

Sure, that would be great in real life. I mean, I'd be a millionaire from winning the lottery! But there is no lottery on Lost. And in the context of being on an island while the rest of the world goes on around you one day off...boring.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: T Mack on February 12, 2008, 07:51:51 PM
But if that WERE true...and time was only somewhat different (not like 10 years had passed in 90 days, but more like...180 days or something like that)...how BORING would that be???

It would only be cool if it were a huge difference, like they came back and it was 20 years later. But then wouldn't people notice they hadn't aged? Oh, and Penny didn't age either! So it must not be a huge difference...and again...zzzzz

I agree that the timeline is stable. Okay, Desmond went back in time once, but THAT'S IT!

Now...multiple parallel universes...MAYBE!  ;)
You can't seriously mean that if in fact you were able to 'time travel' even one day into the future or back into the past to know what was happening tomorrow or to try to 'change' things that happened yesterday, that it wouldn't be the most far out, cool, and explosive thing to ever happen to mankind?

With only one day's notice, one could change world events, become a soothsayer, win lotteries, and save lives.  The fact that the story of Lost is "messing with time" somehow cannot be denied. How and why it is being done is still a mystery, but even if it were for a short period of a year, it would be a major breakthrough for science, and certainly a game changer for the rest of the world.

Sure, that would be great in real life. I mean, I'd be a millionaire from winning the lottery! But there is no lottery on Lost. And in the context of being on an island while the rest of the world goes on around you one day off...boring.
The one day reference was only used in terms of making a point.  I'm sure we are looking at only a few years difference here, at most 20 years or so (1984 DHARMA).  One doesn't have to alter time by 1,000 years to solve the Valenzetti equation and work to prevent the end of the world 'from the past'.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 12, 2008, 07:58:56 PM
I'm just remember what Richard said to Juliet at the airport...
RICHARD: I know that erm, six months sounds like an eternity but, you're gonna be amazed at how time flies once you're there.
I know it isn't much to base a theory on, but with other references about time and whatnot (specifically the langoliers is what i'm thinking...) I don't think it is too much to think that time on the island moves a bit different...or is out of step slightly with the rest of the world.




....yeah time flies when you are having fun...he could have meant that...but...but...
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: Nancy Drew on February 13, 2008, 10:11:07 AM
Maybe time does go faster on the island and that's why Penny was confused about the boat.  Maybe she hadn't gotten to that point in time to send one or be on one??

I don't believe that Naomi's boat is Penny's, but maybe that's why Penny was questioning "what boat"??
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: laklost on February 13, 2008, 10:13:27 AM
Maybe time does go faster on the island and that's why Penny was confused about the boat.  Maybe she hadn't gotten to that point in time to send one or be on one??

I don't believe that Naomi's boat is Penny's, but maybe that's why Penny was questioning "what boat"??

Oooh, I like that - kind of like how Des praised Locke's speech before he gave it! 

((((AMY)))))  Your beautiful little light is on!!
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: thebeann on February 13, 2008, 11:51:39 AM
If time goes faster on the island, it would have no bearing on Penny, the boat, and Naomi. They all originated OFF the island. Naomi came, said she was hired by Penny Widmore (OFF the island). Penny didnt' have any clue (again, OFF the island). So if the timeline thing is a possibility, then one would have to assume two different timelines OFF the island.

And my point about 20 years vs 1 day was merely to point out that 20 years is not feasible (Penny isn't 20 years older in the communication), and 1 day would be almost pointless for gripping the minds of television viewers. The time difference would have to be enough to impact events in a significant way...but not so much as to give it away by aging actors 20 years.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: laklost on February 13, 2008, 01:33:47 PM
If time goes faster on the island, it would have no bearing on Penny, the boat, and Naomi. They all originated OFF the island. Naomi came, said she was hired by Penny Widmore (OFF the island). Penny didnt' have any clue (again, OFF the island). So if the timeline thing is a possibility, then one would have to assume two different timelines OFF the island.
And my point about 20 years vs 1 day was merely to point out that 20 years is not feasible (Penny isn't 20 years older in the communication), and 1 day would be almost pointless for gripping the minds of television viewers. The time difference would have to be enough to impact events in a significant way...but not so much as to give it away by aging actors 20 years.

*cough...alternate realities...cough*  ;)

post #4982
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: thebeann on February 13, 2008, 02:22:36 PM
If time goes faster on the island, it would have no bearing on Penny, the boat, and Naomi. They all originated OFF the island. Naomi came, said she was hired by Penny Widmore (OFF the island). Penny didnt' have any clue (again, OFF the island). So if the timeline thing is a possibility, then one would have to assume two different timelines OFF the island.
And my point about 20 years vs 1 day was merely to point out that 20 years is not feasible (Penny isn't 20 years older in the communication), and 1 day would be almost pointless for gripping the minds of television viewers. The time difference would have to be enough to impact events in a significant way...but not so much as to give it away by aging actors 20 years.

*cough...alternate realities...cough*  ;)

post #4982

I agree, for now. Until we learn otherwise, the evidence from Season 3 finale is compelling. Jack talking about his father, Kate not in jail, Jack's statement "We weren't supposed to leave."
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: Nancy Drew on February 13, 2008, 04:06:30 PM
If time goes faster on the island, it would have no bearing on Penny, the boat, and Naomi. They all originated OFF the island. Naomi came, said she was hired by Penny Widmore (OFF the island). Penny didnt' have any clue (again, OFF the island). So if the timeline thing is a possibility, then one would have to assume two different timelines OFF the island.

And my point about 20 years vs 1 day was merely to point out that 20 years is not feasible (Penny isn't 20 years older in the communication), and 1 day would be almost pointless for gripping the minds of television viewers. The time difference would have to be enough to impact events in a significant way...but not so much as to give it away by aging actors 20 years.

Well to say that time moves faster on the island is to imply a "than what?"
Time moves faster than what?  It moves faster than the time off the island. 
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 13, 2008, 04:17:42 PM
but if time moves faster on the island than the rest of the world did they have to go back in time to get to the place in the flashforwards?  you know what.  i'm done watching lost.  i'm going to pick up something less mind boggling.  like dora the explorer.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: laklost on February 13, 2008, 06:24:03 PM
but if time moves faster on the island than the rest of the world did they have to go back in time to get to the place in the flashforwards?  you know what.  i'm done watching lost.  i'm going to pick up something less mind boggling.  like dora the explorer.

Oh, I don't know, Ashley, Dora has a little adventure every week - has to go to some wacky places, and then there's that Swiper guy.  He's kind of like Ben.  I'm not sure Dora would be a complete track jump.

And if you stop watching Lost, I will be so confused that I will have to stop watching. Amy will be in trouble without her viewing buddy.  SWLS would crash.  Utter mayhem would ensue.  You better stick it out.  ;)
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 13, 2008, 09:46:59 PM
Um... I've said this before....

If time moves differently on and off the island, how did Charlie manage to have a realtime conversation with Penny?
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: laklost on February 13, 2008, 09:54:43 PM
Um... I've said this before....

If time moves differently on and off the island, how did Charlie manage to have a realtime conversation with Penny?

Time wrinkle...?
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 13, 2008, 10:44:03 PM
Um, you're going to have to expand on that a little...
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on February 13, 2008, 10:47:24 PM
i don't see how time could move differently on the island.  i thought it could be possible before i saw the flashforwards.  its what...december 2004 on the island, and April 2007 in the flashforwards or there abouts?  the only way for time to move differently on the island would  be for the losties to come back to the real world, in 2007, and miss a year or two of their life.  or they had to go back in time to hit 2007.  but i'm thinking that it is all real time on the island.  they may end up being there for about a year, then off the island for a year before we saw jack's flashforward.  either way, if time was different synching up again would be a pain.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: E.S.B. on February 13, 2008, 11:48:49 PM
I agree with Maggie on this one.  Up until 4.1 I thought it was possible that time moved differently, but it just doesn't feel like it anymore - I think we would have been clued in if that were the case when we started seeing the flashbacks for the Dream Team in 4.2.  I mean, I guess I don't have any hard evidence, but I just don't get the feeling the story is headed in that direction.  It's kind of like now that we're seeing realtime interactions between Lostaways and other-world characters we would have a better idea if there was some sort of a time wrinkle.
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: cbw420 on February 14, 2008, 02:17:03 PM
i don't see how time could move differently on the island.  i thought it could be possible before i saw the flashforwards.  its what...december 2004 on the island, and April 2007 in the flashforwards or there abouts?  the only way for time to move differently on the island would  be for the losties to come back to the real world, in 2007, and miss a year or two of their life.  or they had to go back in time to hit 2007.  but i'm thinking that it is all real time on the island.  they may end up being there for about a year, then off the island for a year before we saw jack's flashforward.  either way, if time was different synching up again would be a pain.


I agree with Maggie on this one.  Up until 4.1 I thought it was possible that time moved differently, but it just doesn't feel like it anymore - I think we would have been clued in if that were the case when we started seeing the flashbacks for the Dream Team in 4.2.  I mean, I guess I don't have any hard evidence, but I just don't get the feeling the story is headed in that direction.  It's kind of like now that we're seeing realtime interactions between Lostaways and other-world characters we would have a better idea if there was some sort of a time wrinkle.


this is what i like to see, people are coming around now......lol
Title: Re: Flash Forward Or Barely Forward...
Post by: LostAndSeek on February 14, 2008, 05:56:06 PM


this is what i like to see, people are coming around now......lol


And about time!  ;)