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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 3 => Episode 3x21 => Topic started by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 12:37:55 PM

Title: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 12:37:55 PM
in season one Charlie said he couldn't swim,why all of a sudden can he swim and be a champion swimmer?
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: jugdish on May 17, 2007, 12:45:28 PM
I think Charlie lied about the championsip swimmer. He used the weight belt to get down there. He even told Desmond that it does not matter how long he can hold is breath. He is destined to die doing it, so he knew he was going to get down there.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 12:53:44 PM
I think Charlie lied about the championsip swimmer. He used the weight belt to get down there. He even told Desmond that it does not matter how long he can hold is breath. He is destined to die doing it, so he knew he was going to get down there.

But in his back story last night did show him learning how to swim with his dad. Didn't he even put that on his list?
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: jugdish on May 17, 2007, 12:54:49 PM
JUst jumping into the pool. not really swimming. I don't know might be an error.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Hurleys Belly on May 17, 2007, 01:18:55 PM
Charlie jumping into his father's arms in the pool when's he was a kid doesn't mean he can swim.
Using a weightbelt doesn't make a difference either.  As Desmond said, it'll make him descend faster.
And I think he's lying about being a championship swimmer.  What's important here is that Charlie has said he can't swim.  Most importantly, Jack is the one he told.  Why is Jack now thinking he's the right man for the job???
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: jodeci on May 17, 2007, 01:22:29 PM
in the past, did charlie say he can't swim or that he doesn't swim? 
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 01:27:19 PM
He said in season one He CAN'T SWIM
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: gjohnson on May 17, 2007, 01:33:09 PM
I just rewatched the clip of "White Rabbit" and he says "It's just, I don't swim... I don't swim." So he may be able to swim, just not a strong enough swimmer to rescue someone hundreds of feet out to sea.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Sunflower on May 17, 2007, 01:35:05 PM
Is that why he was going to drown if he saved Claire instead of Des?  As for the championship comment that was just to ensure that Jack would let him go.  And I thought he put dad teaching to swim on his list as well.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 01:41:43 PM
I just rewatched the clip of "White Rabbit" and he says "It's just, I don't swim... I don't swim." So he may be able to swim, just not a strong enough swimmer to rescue someone hundreds of feet out to sea.

okay but why say it like that unless he deosn't know how to swim very well or not at all.Maybe that is why he may have put that on his list,as it was the only time he swam with his dad.His brother knew how to swim. Charlie realized he had to do it. It was his destiny. Plus I think Des lied to him about seeing Claire in a helicopter, he knew that would be the only way Charlie would do it, and Des didn't know if Charlie could swim or not.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: jodeci on May 17, 2007, 01:47:29 PM
i'm thinking something happened after the day his dad made him jump into the water.  something to make him afraid again and not want to be in the water.  maybe just the plane crashing into the water scared him enough to say he doesn't swim.   but now that desmond tells charlie about his vision, he'll do anything to save claire and aaron
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 02:09:27 PM
i'm thinking something happened after the day his dad made him jump into the water.  something to make him afraid again and not want to be in the water.  maybe just the plane crashing into the water scared him enough to say he doesn't swim.   but now that desmond tells charlie about his vision, he'll do anything to save claire and aaron

Could be wasn't it Charlie who saw the girl drowning in season one?
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: jodeci on May 17, 2007, 05:57:05 PM
or another thought, back in 'white rabbit' charlie was using heroine pretty regularly and didn't trust himself to attempt to rescue somebody in the water
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Lost_Is_My_Favorite on May 17, 2007, 06:14:31 PM
I think Charlie can swim but he's not a great swimmer.  But being an incredible situation where he thinks his actions will save Claire, Aaron and the rest, he will force himself to do it, and suprise himself by doing it well. JMO
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: a_dot_out on May 17, 2007, 06:17:40 PM
Also, we know he was already bluffing with regards to his swimming skills to convince everyone he was capable for the job. Remember he mentioned to Desmond that his ability to hold his breath underwater for 4 minutes was a gross exaggeration.

I believe the champion swimmer bit fits right into the above criteria.

Humans can perform great feats they would otherwise fail miserably at with the proper conditions, motivation, and confidence.

I think Charlie can swim but he's not a great swimmer.  But being an incredible situation where he thinks his actions will save Claire, Aaron and the rest, he will force himself to do it, and suprise himself by doing it well. JMO
Took the words right out of my fingers!
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: JBRam on May 17, 2007, 06:19:23 PM
GJ ~ It looked like in his flashback that Charlie was afraid of the water. I think he might have still been afraid at that point. Now, he wants to make up for something, so he'll risk his life for Claire.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 17, 2007, 11:43:37 PM
It just hit me!  Charlie's dream in S2E12- it's being fulfilled.  Charlie had to swim to save Aaron, essentially.  What do you think?
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Nancy Drew on May 17, 2007, 11:57:46 PM
i'm thinking something happened after the day his dad made him jump into the water.  something to make him afraid again and not want to be in the water.  maybe just the plane crashing into the water scared him enough to say he doesn't swim.   but now that desmond tells charlie about his vision, he'll do anything to save claire and aaron

I agree that this could be possible, and I am just speculating, but maybe the reason why he doesn't swim is because of his father in some way.  The memory he chose was of him and his dad in the pool.  Maybe we'll find out later that his dad had a water accident and Charlie couldn't save him, or something.  I don't know.  Just thinking in print.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: LouE68 on May 18, 2007, 12:09:03 AM
It just hit me!  Charlie's dream in S2E12- it's being fulfilled.  Charlie had to swim to save Aaron, essentially.  What do you think?
Thats a cool connection PL!
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: JMart on May 18, 2007, 12:15:26 AM
the episode in season 1 when he said "i dont swim" was actually entitled white rabbit? that's effing nuts right there!!!
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 18, 2007, 12:42:30 AM
the episode in season 1 when he said "i dont swim" was actually entitled white rabbit? that's effing nuts right there!!!
Wow.  Just wow. :)
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: JMart on May 18, 2007, 12:48:08 AM
are you excited about it?







or are you making fun of me? :(
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 18, 2007, 12:51:27 AM
are you excited about it?







or are you making fun of me? :(
NO!!! (((((J))))) :)  I'm totally feelin' the bunny thing.  All the references are coming out of the woodwork now! :)
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: DizzyIzzy on May 18, 2007, 03:28:38 AM
Cool catch with the white rabbit.  Charlie uses that kind of humor with a bite so saying he's a great swimmer fits into how he deals with situations in my opinion.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Nancy Drew on May 18, 2007, 03:42:26 PM
This is a little off-topic, but has the show ever said what became of Charlie's dad?  When Liam gave him the ring, he told Charlie that it was his father's, but his mother gave it to him.  Did Charlie's dad die when they were young?
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 18, 2007, 03:46:22 PM
Lostpedia didn't show anything beyond what we saw this past week, & the dream sequence from S2.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: LouE68 on May 18, 2007, 05:44:07 PM
...and basically, Charlie didn't swim, he just sank.....
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: CurtYanko on May 18, 2007, 11:10:31 PM
S1E5   Charlie   Jack! Jack! Jack! Hey Jack! Someone's out there. You've gotta... the current's... there's someone out there, look. I woke up and she's... I don't swim. I don't swim.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on May 19, 2007, 04:46:01 PM
What we saw in this episode was a different version of Charlie's dad.  Remember in Fire+Water he got the piano for Christmas, his mom woke him up.  Then we got a shot of Charlie's dad (I saw this part in the dvd extras- anatomy of an episode, so this is in reference to that not the show) was a butcher, chopping the heads off of dolls, I think he was talking about how you can't go anywhere with music as a career.  In this episode his dad is cheery and being... well, a dad.  I agree with ND that something must have happened to his dad-- maybe it was an accident with water.  Hope we find out!
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: ChellyKins on May 19, 2007, 05:01:59 PM
Whoever said that the dad possibly died very soon after that small flashback of Charlie's...I like that theory. Makes sense. And I'm finding it nifty how the episode was called White Rabbit and the rabbit hatch...yada yada yada...neat.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 19, 2007, 08:02:45 PM
btw- I didn't realize this while watching the epi, but Lostpedia noted that Charlie's dad was played by 2 different actors.  Did anyone else notice?
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Sunflower on May 20, 2007, 01:21:47 AM
He did write down Dad teaching me to swim at Butlins or wherever...
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: ChellyKins on May 20, 2007, 01:24:00 AM
Yeah, he wrote it..but did he look like he was REALLY swimming or just falling underwater and then floating up a little??
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Sunflower on May 20, 2007, 01:25:46 AM
I thought about this when I re watched it today.  I think he was swimming, but not necessarily because he had before, but out of sheer bravery/sacrifice to save Claire.  It isn't that hard to swim...and he had a pretty good breaststroke kick ;)
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: scrod on May 20, 2007, 01:27:31 AM
I have an AWESOME breaststroke! 8)
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: TXFlyboy on May 20, 2007, 01:29:19 AM
THLAY's my HERO
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: ChellyKins on May 20, 2007, 01:31:47 AM
I float very well...cuz of the blubber I am surrounded in.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 20, 2007, 01:54:33 AM
"I only dog paddle." :-\

 :)
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on May 20, 2007, 01:59:36 AM
No more rhyming, now I mean it!            ....anybody want a peanut?   ;)
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 20, 2007, 02:00:38 AM
No more rhyming, now I mean it!            ....anybody want a peanut?   ;)
:D :D :D
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: scrod on May 20, 2007, 02:06:36 AM
No more rhyming, now I mean it!            ....anybody want a peanut?   ;)
<sigh>I miss Andre...

The little bald guy died last year,too IIRC
apologies, after a trip to imdb, it appears Vezzini will be down for breakfast tomorrow.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: puff6962 on May 20, 2007, 02:12:27 AM
Maybe Charlie was lying about not being able to swim....I don't remember the context in which he disclosed this.....or perhaps it was bad detail control on behalf of the writers.  They've had a lot on their plate this season.  I am surprised that they remember that Rose and Bernard are not a plant and a dog, respectively.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: scrod on May 20, 2007, 02:14:47 AM
There has been some discussion about Naomi being a plant put there by Dharma.  Not sure anyone would be considered a dog, except maybe Sawyer
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: TXFlyboy on May 20, 2007, 02:15:00 AM
Maybe Charlie was just to stoned to swim after they first got to the island.  Didn't that scene happen close to the beginning while he was still doping?  
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Sunflower on May 20, 2007, 01:20:13 PM
Could be..don't remember  ???
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: ChellyKins on May 20, 2007, 06:30:55 PM
I'm leaning towards fear of not being able to swim from a past incident. Didn't a girl drown in Eko's flashbacks?? Could that be related somehow? Dunno. Just a quick thought.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 20, 2007, 09:51:13 PM
I think in both cases, he said what he did to get what he wanted.  He didn't WANT to swim before, so he said that he didn't.  This time, he DID want to, so he said he was an accomplished swimmer.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: gjohnson on May 21, 2007, 02:27:40 PM
Maybe Charlie was lying about not being able to swim....I don't remember the context in which he disclosed this.....or perhaps it was bad detail control on behalf of the writers.  They've had a lot on their plate this season.  I am surprised that they remember that Rose and Bernard are not a plant and a dog, respectively.

Charlie states "I don't swim" in episode 5 of season 1 which is titled, oddly enough, "White Rabbit." It is just about 1 minute into the episode if you have it.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 22, 2007, 03:33:47 PM
Maybe Charlie was lying about not being able to swim....I don't remember the context in which he disclosed this.....or perhaps it was bad detail control on behalf of the writers.  They've had a lot on their plate this season.  I am surprised that they remember that Rose and Bernard are not a plant and a dog, respectively.

Charlie states "I don't swim" in episode 5 of season 1 which is titled, oddly enough, "White Rabbit." It is just about 1 minute into the episode if you have it.

I ahd a continuity thread but  it'slong been buriedwouldadd this,  TPTB make a lotofmistakes.

He did put it on his list, his brother could but when girl was drowning -season one- charlie did not go out to save her and when Des saw Claire drowning in  season 3 - Des said Charlie would have drowned.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: matahari on May 23, 2007, 05:22:52 PM
I think Charlie lied and said that he couldn't swim so he wouldn't look like a coward for not saving someone who was drowning.
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 24, 2007, 10:01:44 PM
I think Charlie lied and said that he couldn't swim so he wouldn't look like a coward for not saving someone who was drowning.
Agreed. :)
Title: Re: Charlie can not swim
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 31, 2007, 03:12:01 PM
I think Charlie lied and said that he couldn't swim so he wouldn't look like a coward for not saving someone who was drowning.
Agreed. :)

 agree here too