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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 3 => Episode 3x21 => Topic started by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 12:36:36 PM

Title: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 12:36:36 PM
 Okay jack was appointed the leader in season one and did a good job,season two amongst all his head bobbing all he ever wanted to do was go fight the Others and sometimes just out of the blue,he would say "We need to form an army", then he would head out to go get them and stop and play cards with Sawyer.

So now in season 3, he is with the others,and is willing to leave all our Losties behind to cure Ben and get on a submarine and go home.
Now he comes back and wants to blow all the Others to hell.

Twice Sayid has to stop him once about the transmitter belonging to Naomi to get it to work another time Sayid has to remind Jack that the main goal is to get off the island.(Sayid shoudl be the leader). Jack is once again all gung ho warrior to blow the others all to hell,yet all he wanted to do before was get off the island himself.Now he is like who cares about getting off the island,let's fight.

But I think if Jack was given the option again to get off the island by himself he would take it.  I don't trust Jack at all. 
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Point Place WI on May 17, 2007, 12:57:15 PM
Bah, He is playing the cards.  Sayid is like a right hand man.  Has to step in to keep balance but knows Jack's intentions are in the right place.  Let's see Docter or Iraqi National guard member.  Obviously Sayid is a leader.  Jack was the peoples choice.  I agree he looks flustered at times.  The "Others" are coming a day early which is screwing up the plan.  So, improvise.  They are all going to Danielle's radio signal and Charlie is taking out the switch at the bunny hatch.  So either way you look at it Sayid will get his walkie talkie working.  Unless Naomi can screw Sayid and live up to her word.

Like Rose said:  Jack, I like you better now that your an Optimist.  Best case scenario

Could be Locke...AWOL pledging allegiance to them.

I like Sayid he is the man.  He's trustworthy but Jack's way isn't necessarily wrong either. 

Go Team Losties
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 01:18:40 PM
Point Place having trouble quoting you.yes Sayid is a great leader too, he ist he man. Jack is doing the best he can, but when all is said is done I think going along with his tatoo saying walks among them but belongs tonoone, he would if given another chance, get off the island by himself. Sayid wouldn't.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Sunflower on May 17, 2007, 01:32:56 PM
Yeah, I feel like he would/will dupe us.  I hope I'm wrong tho
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 01:42:52 PM
Yeah, I feel like he would/will dupe us.  I hope I'm wrong tho

hey he was willing to get on that sub with Juliet not looking back at all.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: General Zod on May 17, 2007, 01:56:07 PM
Yeah, I feel like he would/will dupe us.  I hope I'm wrong tho

hey he was willing to get on that sub with Juliet not looking back at all.

According to Jack he was going to go on the sub and come back for them....that's what he told Kate.  So he could save them....right?
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: T Mack on May 17, 2007, 01:57:42 PM
He's smart but he's a hothead...that doesn't make him a 'great' leader, just the loudest one.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 02:04:17 PM
He's smart but he's a hothead...that doesn't make him a 'great' leader, just the loudest one.

Got that right give me Sayid any day
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Point Place WI on May 17, 2007, 02:29:51 PM
Yeah, I feel like he would/will dupe us.  I hope I'm wrong tho

hey he was willing to get on that sub with Juliet not looking back at all.

According to Jack he was going to go on the sub and come back for them....that's what he told Kate.  So he could save them....right?

Agree 100% with you...not the hot head points.

Never trust an Iraqi (jk'n)
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 02:34:15 PM
Yeah, I feel like he would/will dupe us.  I hope I'm wrong tho

hey he was willing to get on that sub with Juliet not looking back at all.

According to Jack he was going to go on the sub and come back for them....that's what he told Kate.  So he could save them....right?

Agree 100% with you...not the hot head points.

Never trust an Iraqi (jk'n)

When the miltary trained and about to go into battle and  plans changed as (why would ben ever trust Juliet), Sayid  says just booby trap the tents, I go with him thinking both ways  battle and getting off the island. Only in preview do we see Jack saying to ben he is getting his people off the island, up until then he is only thinking of a battle like it's his only option.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: WhatThe on May 17, 2007, 02:39:55 PM
Yeah, I feel like he would/will dupe us.  I hope I'm wrong tho

hey he was willing to get on that sub with Juliet not looking back at all.

Nope, he told Kate he would come back for them after he got off the island...and the way the writers had him tell her, it was 1,000% sincere. ("I told you not to come back for me....but I will come back for you.").

Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 02:42:51 PM
Yeah, I feel like he would/will dupe us.  I hope I'm wrong tho

hey he was willing to get on that sub with Juliet not looking back at all.

Nope, he told Kate he would come back for them after he got off the island...and the way the writers had him tell her, it was 1,000% sincere. ("I told you not to come back for me....but I will come back for you.").



Welll  will we ever know maybe in three years? but youmade an excellent point.  Or could he mean just Kate?
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: WhatThe on May 17, 2007, 02:46:05 PM
Yeah, I feel like he would/will dupe us.  I hope I'm wrong tho

hey he was willing to get on that sub with Juliet not looking back at all.

Nope, he told Kate he would come back for them after he got off the island...and the way the writers had him tell her, it was 1,000% sincere. ("I told you not to come back for me....but I will come back for you.").



Welll  will we ever know maybe in three years? but youmade an excellent point.  Or could he mean just Kate?

LoL True...Kate would definitely be worth coming back for..heh :)
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: misseko815 on May 17, 2007, 02:49:56 PM
But he was really quick to say "no" to Sayid trying to figure out the sat phone thing last night. Seemed odd. He said something along the lines of "You called me your leader and have asked me to make decisions for the last 90 days. Well, I just made one. No." Seemed like he was really trying to dissuade Sayid from working on that... and then Juliet tried to further dissuade moments later when she told them the Looking Glass was flooded... It all seems fishy to me.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 02:56:08 PM
But he was really quick to say "no" to Sayid trying to figure out the sat phone thing last night. Seemed odd. He said something along the lines of "You called me your leader and have asked me to make decisions for the last 90 days. Well, I just made one. No." Seemed like he was really trying to dissuade Sayid from working on that... and then Juliet tried to further dissuade moments later when she told them the Looking Glass was flooded... It all seems fishy to me.

Exactly when he said that I said outluud to TV well you have been gone for about ten days of these 90 and they did just fine without you. Who put youback in charge.

Sayid seemd very suscpious(sp?) of Jack too.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Point Place WI on May 17, 2007, 02:56:20 PM
Yeah but either way Sayid wouldn't even know that the Bunny hatch was blocking signals to get out if it wasn't for juliet.  So, Charlie and Des wouldn't have even went out to the underwater hatch.  So, the radio would never work without that info since it wasn't working previously.  I don't know but you'd think your team would try sending another person to the island if the helicopter went down.  At least find the person.  Naomi is the plant.  It's an underground lesbian woman's prison.  They are keeping woman there to get them pregars and Charlie is going to get taken advantage of. 
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 03:02:47 PM
Yeah but either way Sayid wouldn't even know that the Bunny hatch was blocking signals to get out if it wasn't for juliet.  So, Charlie and Des wouldn't have even went out to the underwater hatch.  So, the radio would never work without that info since it wasn't working previously.  I don't know but you'd think your team would try sending another person to the island if the helicopter went down.  At least find the person.  Naomi is the plant.  It's an underground lesbian woman's prison.  They are keeping woman there to get them pregars and Charlie is going to get taken advantage of. 

Yes Naomi is a plant and yes they would have sent someone else after her.That is why Sayid questioned her whole story and said way back when first found her, did you see the helicopter?like could fake the noise of one.
And where was Naomi- who could get up and talk to Charlie- when they were discussing how to work her radio to contact her ship?

When those two chicks came out with the guns I thought what Charlie jump into a Bond Film all they were missing were the swim suits.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: WhatThe on May 17, 2007, 03:04:49 PM
It's an underground lesbian woman's prison.  They are keeping woman there to get them pregars and Charlie is going to get taken advantage of. 

That WOULD explain Charlie's little smile at the end of the show lol.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 03:07:35 PM
It's an underground lesbian woman's prison.  They are keeping woman there to get them pregars and Charlie is going to get taken advantage of. 

That WOULD explain Charlie's little smile at the end of the show lol.

If ya gotta dye I guess fora guy that is the way to go...
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: WG?JIFFY on May 17, 2007, 03:07:58 PM
It's an underground lesbian woman's prison.  They are keeping woman there to get them pregars and Charlie is going to get taken advantage of. 

That WOULD explain Charlie's little smile at the end of the show lol.
Yes because lesbians want to do is have sex with men!!  
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 03:09:27 PM
It's an underground lesbian woman's prison.  They are keeping woman there to get them pregars and Charlie is going to get taken advantage of. 

That WOULD explain Charlie's little smile at the end of the show lol.
Yes because lesbians want to do is have sex with men!!  

no but men sure like to watch two women getting it on.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Point Place WI on May 17, 2007, 03:13:15 PM
It's for the greater good :)
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Lost_Is_My_Favorite on May 17, 2007, 03:21:15 PM
I think Jack is playing the Others.  I think he let Sayid in on what his plan was when he got back or even before then, but we haven't seen it yet.  Maybe the finale!  That is why Sayid is working with Jack and is trusting him.  I think back to when Sayid told Jack they wouldn't be bringing Juliet back and Jack said sternly "She's coming with us."  It looked to me like he gave him a look of even though it doesn't make sense, I'll fill you in later.  But then, this is just me being overly optimistic!  LOL
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 03:23:09 PM
It's for the greater good :)

The education/explanations we have to give these youngins ;D ;D
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 03:25:16 PM
I think Jack is playing the Others.  I think he let Sayid in on what his plan was when he got back or even before then, but we haven't seen it yet.  Maybe the finale!  That is why Sayid is working with Jack and is trusting him.  I think back to when Sayid told Jack they wouldn't be bringing Juliet back and Jack said sternly "She's coming with us."  It looked to me like he gave him a look of even though it doesn't make sense, I'll fill you in later.  But then, this is just me being overly optimistic!  LOL

But a lot of what happened lastnight was also Sayid insisting that jack listen to him and follow some of his ideas.True jack acted on his own with Juliet contacting Danielle, but it is usually Sayid that does that......  Jack has changed.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Lost_Is_My_Favorite on May 17, 2007, 03:37:03 PM
I think Jack is playing the Others.  I think he let Sayid in on what his plan was when he got back or even before then, but we haven't seen it yet.  Maybe the finale!  That is why Sayid is working with Jack and is trusting him.  I think back to when Sayid told Jack they wouldn't be bringing Juliet back and Jack said sternly "She's coming with us."  It looked to me like he gave him a look of even though it doesn't make sense, I'll fill you in later.  But then, this is just me being overly optimistic!  LOL

But a lot of what happened lastnight was also Sayid insisting that jack listen to him and follow some of his ideas.True jack acted on his own with Juliet contacting Danielle, but it is usually Sayid that does that......  Jack has changed.

I think Sayid is keeping Jack "focused".  I think they both have a mutual plan and Sayid is aware of it completely, but they are making it appear as if Jack is doing a lot more solo stuff for Juliet's sake.  Ultimately I do think that Sayid is being a good co-leader and making sure that Jack WANTS to do the things he is doing. Before Jack was more wishy-washy and that is why I think Sayid was a bit proud that Jack is finally stepping up.  JMO
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Point Place WI on May 17, 2007, 03:41:58 PM
GJ I was just kidding about the Lesbian woman's prison and Charlie getting some action. 

I am turning 27 in less than a month so you can consider that young.  I for one have a lookout on life at times as "you are only young once but you can be immature for the rest of your life!" 

Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 03:43:56 PM
Bah, He is playing the cards.  Sayid is like a right hand man.  Has to step in to keep balance but knows Jack's intentions are in the right place.  Let's see Docter or Iraqi National guard member.  Obviously Sayid is a leader.  Jack was the peoples choice.  I agree he looks flustered at times.  The "Others" are coming a day early which is screwing up the plan.  So, improvise.  They are all going to Danielle's radio signal and Charlie is taking out the switch at the bunny hatch.  So either way you look at it Sayid will get his walkie talkie working.  Unless Naomi can screw Sayid and live up to her word.

Like Rose said:  Jack, I like you better now that your an Optimist.  Best case scenario

Could be Locke...AWOL pledging allegiance to them.

I like Sayid he is the man.  He's trustworthy but Jack's way isn't necessarily wrong either. 

Go Team Losties
It's for the greater good :)

The education/explanations we have to give these youngins ;D ;D



Bah, He is playing the cards.  Sayid is like a right hand man.  Has to step in to keep balance but knows Jack's intentions are in the right place.  Let's see Docter or Iraqi National guard member.  Obviously Sayid is a leader.  Jack was the peoples choice.  I agree he looks flustered at times.  The "Others" are coming a day early which is screwing up the plan.  So, improvise.  They are all going to Danielle's radio signal and Charlie is taking out the switch at the bunny hatch.  So either way you look at it Sayid will get his walkie talkie working.  Unless Naomi can screw Sayid and live up to her word.

Like Rose said:  Jack, I like you better now that your an Optimist.  Best case scenario

Could be Locke...AWOL pledging allegiance to them.

I like Sayid he is the man.  He's trustworthy but Jack's way isn't necessarily wrong either. 

Go Team Losties

 did you bum this i was referring to the explanation about smile on charlie...
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Point Place WI on May 17, 2007, 03:46:27 PM
I don't know what happened somehow it quoted some of my old stuff
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Sunflower on May 17, 2007, 03:56:42 PM
Uh, how did you guys get to Lesbians?  I thought this was about Jack...maybe Sayid...

But he was really quick to say "no" to Sayid trying to figure out the sat phone thing last night. Seemed odd. He said something along the lines of "You called me your leader and have asked me to make decisions for the last 90 days. Well, I just made one. No." Seemed like he was really trying to dissuade Sayid from working on that... and then Juliet tried to further dissuade moments later when she told them the Looking Glass was flooded... It all seems fishy to me.

Exactly when he said that I said outluud to TV well you have been gone for about ten days of these 90 and they did just fine without you. Who put youback in charge.

Sayid seemd very suscpious(sp?) of Jack too.
Sayid is smart.  He will either keep Jack accountable or be the first to bring him down.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: WhatThe on May 17, 2007, 04:00:42 PM
It's an underground lesbian woman's prison.  They are keeping woman there to get them pregars and Charlie is going to get taken advantage of. 

That WOULD explain Charlie's little smile at the end of the show lol.
Yes because lesbians want to do is have sex with men!! 

If they want to be impregnated in an underwater hatch without medical facilities they do lol...
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 04:04:35 PM
I don't know what happened somehow it quoted some of my old stuff

 it was good to read again
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 04:05:13 PM
Uh, how did you guys get to Lesbians?  I thought this was about Jack...maybe Sayid...

But he was really quick to say "no" to Sayid trying to figure out the sat phone thing last night. Seemed odd. He said something along the lines of "You called me your leader and have asked me to make decisions for the last 90 days. Well, I just made one. No." Seemed like he was really trying to dissuade Sayid from working on that... and then Juliet tried to further dissuade moments later when she told them the Looking Glass was flooded... It all seems fishy to me.

Exactly when he said that I said outluud to TV well you have been gone for about ten days of these 90 and they did just fine without you. Who put youback in charge.

Sayid seemd very suscpious(sp?) of Jack too.
Sayid is smart.  He will either keep Jack accountable or be the first to bring him down.

yes sayid very smart.

I had them as Bond girls.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Sunflower on May 17, 2007, 04:07:46 PM
I know, just thought it was funny how off topic this thread had become ;)
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 17, 2007, 04:14:44 PM
I know, just thought it was funny how off topic this thread had become ;)

I know leave it to the guys... :) :) :) :)
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: ChellyKins on May 20, 2007, 12:14:54 AM
Okay jack was appointed the leader in season one and did a good job,season two amongst all his head bobbing all he ever wanted to do was go fight the Others and sometimes just out of the blue,he would say "We need to form an army", then he would head out to go get them and stop and play cards with Sawyer.

So now in season 3, he is with the others,and is willing to leave all our Losties behind to cure Ben and get on a submarine and go home.
Now he comes back and wants to blow all the Others to hell.

Twice Sayid has to stop him once about the transmitter belonging to Naomi to get it to work another time Sayid has to remind Jack that the main goal is to get off the island.(Sayid shoudl be the leader). Jack is once again all gung ho warrior to blow the others all to hell,yet all he wanted to do before was get off the island himself.Now he is like who cares about getting off the island,let's fight.

But I think if Jack was given the option again to get off the island by himself he would take it.  I don't trust Jack at all. 

I'm not going to sit on the sidelines and allow you to trash my boy! lol

Seriously tho..jack was trying to run from his hurt from sleezeball and hobag...you know them by Sawyer and Kate. She wanted Jack, wanted Sawyer...slept with Sawyer...Jack gets to see a glimpse of it...come on!!...you'd be wigging out too! He was hurt and wanted out. He realized no one gave a hoot about him, so why should he? And ultimately he was ALL for letting Sawyer and Kate go!!!!

Jack keeps people under him pretty well for being such a sucky leader. They followed him out into the freakin jungle like it was nothing. Lil Charlie was the only one to say a word different!
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: ChellyKins on May 20, 2007, 12:19:25 AM
But he was really quick to say "no" to Sayid trying to figure out the sat phone thing last night. Seemed odd. He said something along the lines of "You called me your leader and have asked me to make decisions for the last 90 days. Well, I just made one. No." Seemed like he was really trying to dissuade Sayid from working on that... and then Juliet tried to further dissuade moments later when she told them the Looking Glass was flooded... It all seems fishy to me.

Ummm. He didn't want someone to attempt the SUICIDE mission...come on people!!! He's just trying to keep alive all that he can!! He's a doctor, who helps SAVE lives. Not allows suicide missions!
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Sunflower on May 20, 2007, 01:26:19 PM
Okay jack was appointed the leader in season one and did a good job,season two amongst all his head bobbing all he ever wanted to do was go fight the Others and sometimes just out of the blue,he would say "We need to form an army", then he would head out to go get them and stop and play cards with Sawyer.

So now in season 3, he is with the others,and is willing to leave all our Losties behind to cure Ben and get on a submarine and go home.
Now he comes back and wants to blow all the Others to hell.

Twice Sayid has to stop him once about the transmitter belonging to Naomi to get it to work another time Sayid has to remind Jack that the main goal is to get off the island.(Sayid shoudl be the leader). Jack is once again all gung ho warrior to blow the others all to hell,yet all he wanted to do before was get off the island himself.Now he is like who cares about getting off the island,let's fight.

But I think if Jack was given the option again to get off the island by himself he would take it.  I don't trust Jack at all. 

I'm not going to sit on the sidelines and allow you to trash my boy! lol

Seriously tho..jack was trying to run from his hurt from sleezeball and hobag...you know them by Sawyer and Kate. She wanted Jack, wanted Sawyer...slept with Sawyer...Jack gets to see a glimpse of it...come on!!...you'd be wigging out too! He was hurt and wanted out. He realized no one gave a hoot about him, so why should he? And ultimately he was ALL for letting Sawyer and Kate go!!!!

Jack keeps people under him pretty well for being such a sucky leader. They followed him out into the freakin jungle like it was nothing. Lil Charlie was the only one to say a word different!
Actually, in the Answers epi TPTB said that Juliet misinterpreted it as heartbreak over seeing them, but that was not the case.  Jack wanted to save them both.  He loves Kate and wants her to be happy and he was trying to facilitate that.  After rewatching the last couple of episodes I think we have been giving Jack a hard time.  He has been preparing and planning.  Juliet told him from the day they were in the operating room what Ben's plan's were so her and Jack could work together to get them off the Island.  I think we will see Jack in full force this finale.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Lost_Is_My_Favorite on May 20, 2007, 01:30:09 PM
Okay jack was appointed the leader in season one and did a good job,season two amongst all his head bobbing all he ever wanted to do was go fight the Others and sometimes just out of the blue,he would say "We need to form an army", then he would head out to go get them and stop and play cards with Sawyer.

So now in season 3, he is with the others,and is willing to leave all our Losties behind to cure Ben and get on a submarine and go home.
Now he comes back and wants to blow all the Others to hell.

Twice Sayid has to stop him once about the transmitter belonging to Naomi to get it to work another time Sayid has to remind Jack that the main goal is to get off the island.(Sayid shoudl be the leader). Jack is once again all gung ho warrior to blow the others all to hell,yet all he wanted to do before was get off the island himself.Now he is like who cares about getting off the island,let's fight.

But I think if Jack was given the option again to get off the island by himself he would take it.  I don't trust Jack at all. 

I'm not going to sit on the sidelines and allow you to trash my boy! lol

Seriously tho..jack was trying to run from his hurt from sleezeball and hobag...you know them by Sawyer and Kate. She wanted Jack, wanted Sawyer...slept with Sawyer...Jack gets to see a glimpse of it...come on!!...you'd be wigging out too! He was hurt and wanted out. He realized no one gave a hoot about him, so why should he? And ultimately he was ALL for letting Sawyer and Kate go!!!!

Jack keeps people under him pretty well for being such a sucky leader. They followed him out into the freakin jungle like it was nothing. Lil Charlie was the only one to say a word different!
Actually, in the Answers epi TPTB said that Juliet misinterpreted it as heartbreak over seeing them, but that was not the case.  Jack wanted to save them both.  He loves Kate and wants her to be happy and he was trying to facilitate that.  After rewatching the last couple of episodes I think we have been giving Jack a hard time.  He has been preparing and planning.  Juliet told him from the day they were in the operating room what Ben's plan's were so her and Jack could work together to get them off the Island.  I think we will see Jack in full force this finale.

I still question how he said that he was told about Juliets plan after the ultra sound.  Also, does Jack know that Claire was implanted with a device that would nearly kill her just to make Juliet look good?  I am just hoping that the finale does show Jack as being a better leader and planning his own plan, minus Juliet, to save the losties. 
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Sunflower on May 20, 2007, 01:49:19 PM
He probably learned about the implant at some point.  It seems they put it in Claire some time ago...the others are very efficient ::) ;)  Juliet probably told him about it after the fact.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Blitz Wing on May 21, 2007, 07:49:03 AM
I don't know about Jack anymore.....I liked him in Season 1 & 2, but now he just irritates me with his attitude and decisions.

In the last episode posts, I pretty much summed up the reasons why he gets on my nerves now: http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,5003.15.html

In this episode all he seems to care about is to blow up the Others until Sayid sets him straight. I don't think he's doing a very good job as a leader. He says that the Losties asked him to "Make Decisions" for them.....I don't remember any vote.

You know, maybe if he actually told everybody when Juliette disclosed Ben's plan to him, they would have been ready with the Dynamite with wires by now, instead of having to shoot at them. But no, Jack decided to withhold that info because "He hasn't decided what to do about it yet". And look what happened, Jack almost screwed up yet again because the Others decided to come a day early. Jack's just damn lucky Alex sent Karl to warn them. I even suspect that Juliette's still working for Ben considering the way she answered Karl's accusations of Juliette being a Spy. That's the perfect way to reinforce Juliette's cover, "They already know Karl, I told them".

Another major inconsistency I found with Jack is now he wants to kill a bunch of Others. Before this it always seemed like Jack is willing to preserve life, even the Others, at all costs. He didn't want Sayid beating up Ben (under the guise of Henry Gale) for info even. Jack couldn't bring himself to mercy kill that US marshall Lostie, until Sawyer screws up and shoots him wrong. Anna-Luica kills Shannon, ah well lets forgive her. Michael kills Anna-Luica & Libby and makes a deal with the Others and gets away......ah well nothing to dwell over, no need to kick the crap out of Michael. Kate sleeps with Sawyer, Locke blows up the Sub, Jack can't get off the Island, Others leave him with the Lostie! Ah damn it......lets go kill a whole bunch of Others now! WTF?!?! He doesn't even stay true to his own principles. Sometimes you have to compromise your principles, but not that quickly and lightly. This is almost as quick and unreasonable of a switch as Anakin Skywalker going from Light Side to Dark Side in Episode 3! WTF!  ???

Jack needs a good tongue lashing and a beating to set him straight.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: laklost on May 21, 2007, 10:52:36 AM
I don't know about Jack anymore.....I liked him in Season 1 & 2, but now he just irritates me with his attitude and decisions.

In the last episode posts, I pretty much summed up the reasons why he gets on my nerves now: http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,5003.15.html

In this episode all he seems to care about is to blow up the Others until Sayid sets him straight. I don't think he's doing a very good job as a leader. He says that the Losties asked him to "Make Decisions" for them.....I don't remember any vote.

You know, maybe if he actually told everybody when Juliette disclosed Ben's plan to him, they would have been ready with the Dynamite with wires by now, instead of having to shoot at them. But no, Jack decided to withhold that info because "He hasn't decided what to do about it yet". And look what happened, Jack almost screwed up yet again because the Others decided to come a day early. Jack's just damn lucky Alex sent Karl to warn them. I even suspect that Juliette's still working for Ben considering the way she answered Karl's accusations of Juliette being a Spy. That's the perfect way to reinforce Juliette's cover, "They already know Karl, I told them".

Another major inconsistency I found with Jack is now he wants to kill a bunch of Others. Before this it always seemed like Jack is willing to preserve life, even the Others, at all costs. He didn't want Sayid beating up Ben (under the guise of Henry Gale) for info even. Jack couldn't bring himself to mercy kill that US marshall Lostie, until Sawyer screws up and shoots him wrong. Anna-Luica kills Shannon, ah well lets forgive her. Michael kills Anna-Luica & Libby and makes a deal with the Others and gets away......ah well nothing to dwell over, no need to kick the crap out of Michael. Kate sleeps with Sawyer, Locke blows up the Sub, Jack can't get off the Island, Others leave him with the Lostie! Ah damn it......lets go kill a whole bunch of Others now! WTF?!?! He doesn't even stay true to his own principles. Sometimes you have to compromise your principles, but not that quickly and lightly. This is almost as quick and unreasonable of a switch as Anakin Skywalker going from Light Side to Dark Side in Episode 3! WTF!  ???

Jack needs a good tongue lashing and a beating to set him straight.


I get what you're saying.  The only thing I wanted to point out is that in Season One when it was time to take down their first Other it was Jack who had him down on the ground.  I only remember that moment because it was the first time I liked Jack.  Not only was he a healer/doctor, but he was willing to break his hand on the Enemy's face.  I know Charlie actually killed Ethan -- but Jack stopped him.  He wasn't willing to just stand around and wait to stitch him up!
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Point Place WI on May 21, 2007, 08:21:28 PM
I don't know about Jack anymore.....I liked him in Season 1 & 2, but now he just irritates me with his attitude and decisions.

In the last episode posts, I pretty much summed up the reasons why he gets on my nerves now: http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,5003.15.html

In this episode all he seems to care about is to blow up the Others until Sayid sets him straight. I don't think he's doing a very good job as a leader. He says that the Losties asked him to "Make Decisions" for them.....I don't remember any vote.

You know, maybe if he actually told everybody when Juliette disclosed Ben's plan to him, they would have been ready with the Dynamite with wires by now, instead of having to shoot at them. But no, Jack decided to withhold that info because "He hasn't decided what to do about it yet". And look what happened, Jack almost screwed up yet again because the Others decided to come a day early. Jack's just damn lucky Alex sent Karl to warn them. I even suspect that Juliette's still working for Ben considering the way she answered Karl's accusations of Juliette being a Spy. That's the perfect way to reinforce Juliette's cover, "They already know Karl, I told them".

Another major inconsistency I found with Jack is now he wants to kill a bunch of Others. Before this it always seemed like Jack is willing to preserve life, even the Others, at all costs. He didn't want Sayid beating up Ben (under the guise of Henry Gale) for info even. Jack couldn't bring himself to mercy kill that US marshall Lostie, until Sawyer screws up and shoots him wrong. Anna-Luica kills Shannon, ah well lets forgive her. Michael kills Anna-Luica & Libby and makes a deal with the Others and gets away......ah well nothing to dwell over, no need to kick the crap out of Michael. Kate sleeps with Sawyer, Locke blows up the Sub, Jack can't get off the Island, Others leave him with the Lostie! Ah damn it......lets go kill a whole bunch of Others now! WTF?!?! He doesn't even stay true to his own principles. Sometimes you have to compromise your principles, but not that quickly and lightly. This is almost as quick and unreasonable of a switch as Anakin Skywalker going from Light Side to Dark Side in Episode 3! WTF!  ???

Jack needs a good tongue lashing and a beating to set him straight.


Wrong plain and simple but thanks for the info
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Madam P on May 21, 2007, 11:24:44 PM
Also, does Jack know that Claire was implanted with a device that would nearly kill her just to make Juliet look good?--Lost_Is_My_Favorite

Very good question -- I wondered about that too.  If he does, that sure wasn't very Hippocratic of him, was it?  As a doctor, I'd think he'd be highly offended at that tactic.  If he doesn't, what does that tell us about Juliet?
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: puff6962 on May 22, 2007, 12:04:08 AM
Posted on April 12th, 2007.

Jack is the biggest moron on the show.  Tell me once that he has been right!!!!  He's an idiot.  How did he ever get into med school.  He should be a greeter at WalMart....not that there's anything wrong with that.  Jack's character fulfills the literary role of "crap-magnet."  There are characters you inject who are always getting screwed, betrayed, or enduring bad luck.  The reason you have a crap-magnet is that it simplifies the dynamics of writing a group story and, ever so often, everybody gets to say...poor Jack.  Eventually, you either kill the dude off or you make him into a turnaround story.  I'm betting that Jack is the latter, but I'm kinda hoping for the former.

In either case, Jack will either get crapped on again or he is laying a trap....waiting for the other's to go after Sun.  Any thoughtful person who knew of Sun's pregnancy would be concerned about the island's disease.  The fact that Jack didn't mention Sun to Juliet upon thinking that some condition inherent to the island was sickening Claire is already suspect.  Either Jack is a lousy doctor, laying a trap, hiding Sun's pregnency until he knows more about Juliet, or is just a moron. 

If Jack is a complete moron and trusts Juliet, he will tell Juliet about Sun immediately (Jack thinks Sun conceived on the island) due to the risk to Sun.  If he has doubts, he will discuss the issue with Sun, or somebody, first. 




I don't think I want to add anything further except that, what Jack want most will destroy him.

As the producers stated....Jack is the kind of person who could snatch failure from the clutches of success.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Blitz Wing on May 22, 2007, 02:26:31 AM
I get what you're saying.  The only thing I wanted to point out is that in Season One when it was time to take down their first Other it was Jack who had him down on the ground.  I only remember that moment because it was the first time I liked Jack.  Not only was he a healer/doctor, but he was willing to break his hand on the Enemy's face.  I know Charlie actually killed Ethan -- but Jack stopped him.  He wasn't willing to just stand around and wait to stitch him up!

I don't remember if Jack was going to beat the crap out of Ethan.......from what I recall, I think Jack was going to question Ethan, but Charlie shoots up Ethan before he could. I can't see Jack abusing Ethan that much even if Charlie didn't kill Ethan.

If it was me though, I would have gotten Sayid to torture the crap out of Ethan for info and then bury Ethan. Ethan killed Scott (or was it Steven.....a Lostie on the Beach for no reason but to instill fear), he tried to hang Charlie, and he kidnapped Claire. Probably what does it for it me is Ethan killing Scott/Steven. But regardless, my point being.....I still don't think Jack would have abused Ethan too much if he was captured. But for some weird reason, he wants to blow up all the Others now.

Oh yeah, blowing up the Tree to show the other Losties his plan was stupid too. Yeah like there's no possibility of the Others seeing or hearing the explosion right? Real smart Jack.  ::)
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: DizzyIzzy on May 22, 2007, 01:51:38 PM
I think blowing up the tree was for dramatic effect in the storytelling.  Seems like some things are heard by the others and other stuff is not. 

Most people aren't born leaders, people like being liked too much and for the most part a leader is respected, but not always liked.  Something has made Jack very very angry.  Or maybe it is the island that leads so many people to kill.  There has been a tremendous amount of murder on this island and for the most part the killing is done not in a life/death situation, but more for the sake of revenge or personal gain.  It's almost just expected for me.

We can't like or even embrace every character or it would be a very boring story.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 22, 2007, 02:02:23 PM
I get what you're saying.  The only thing I wanted to point out is that in Season One when it was time to take down their first Other it was Jack who had him down on the ground.  I only remember that moment because it was the first time I liked Jack.  Not only was he a healer/doctor, but he was willing to break his hand on the Enemy's face.  I know Charlie actually killed Ethan -- but Jack stopped him.  He wasn't willing to just stand around and wait to stitch him up!

I don't remember if Jack was going to beat the crap out of Ethan.......from what I recall, I think Jack was going to question Ethan, but Charlie shoots up Ethan before he could. I can't see Jack abusing Ethan that much even if Charlie didn't kill Ethan.

If it was me though, I would have gotten Sayid to torture the crap out of Ethan for info and then bury Ethan. Ethan killed Scott (or was it Steven.....a Lostie on the Beach for no reason but to instill fear), he tried to hang Charlie, and he kidnapped Claire. Probably what does it for it me is Ethan killing Scott/Steven. But regardless, my point being.....I still don't think Jack would have abused Ethan too much if he was captured. But for some weird reason, he wants to blow up all the Others now.

Oh yeah, blowing up the Tree to show the other Losties his plan was stupid too. Yeah like there's no possibility of the Others seeing or hearing the explosion right? Real smart Jack.  ::)


Excellent points but ins eason one Jack was quite willing to LET Sayid torture Sawyer for the asthma medicine.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: misseko815 on May 22, 2007, 08:06:48 PM

Oh yeah, blowing up the Tree to show the other Losties his plan was stupid too. Yeah like there's no possibility of the Others seeing or hearing the explosion right? Real smart Jack.  ::)


Did he think Danielle had fun hauling all of the dynamite from the Black Rock all the way to the beach??? and then to use some for demonstrative effect??? Doesn't add up!!!
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: puff6962 on May 22, 2007, 08:21:15 PM
Do you all remember Christian's conversation with his young son?

"Jack, don't choose, cause when you do you don't have what it takes."

Christian knew that his son was an idiot.

Realize that the show is built on paradoxes.....Jack wants to get off the island but he shouldn't.....Jack plans to use the SAT phone, but that may not be a good idea.....Jack loves Kate, but he shouldn't.....Jack thought his dad was a drunk, but he didn't even know his father....Jack trusts Juliet, but should he?

Jack is like one of those kid toys you punch, knock over, it flips back up, and you punch it again.  I think that his plan will quickly unravel.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: laklost on May 23, 2007, 12:47:53 AM
I get what you're saying.  The only thing I wanted to point out is that in Season One when it was time to take down their first Other it was Jack who had him down on the ground.  I only remember that moment because it was the first time I liked Jack.  Not only was he a healer/doctor, but he was willing to break his hand on the Enemy's face.  I know Charlie actually killed Ethan -- but Jack stopped him.  He wasn't willing to just stand around and wait to stitch him up!

I don't remember if Jack was going to beat the crap out of Ethan.......from what I recall, I think Jack was going to question Ethan, but Charlie shoots up Ethan before he could. I can't see Jack abusing Ethan that much even if Charlie didn't kill Ethan.

If it was me though, I would have gotten Sayid to torture the crap out of Ethan for info and then bury Ethan. Ethan killed Scott (or was it Steven.....a Lostie on the Beach for no reason but to instill fear), he tried to hang Charlie, and he kidnapped Claire. Probably what does it for it me is Ethan killing Scott/Steven. But regardless, my point being.....I still don't think Jack would have abused Ethan too much if he was captured. But for some weird reason, he wants to blow up all the Others now.

Oh yeah, blowing up the Tree to show the other Losties his plan was stupid too. Yeah like there's no possibility of the Others seeing or hearing the explosion right? Real smart Jack.  ::)


Respectfully, Blitzwing, I ask you to go back and watch Season One Ep One called "Homecoming" -- truly one of the great Lost episodes.  Jack is all over Ethan. 

I hated the fact that they had a doctor front stage center, but he's grown on me.  I really think he has the welfare of the group in mind!
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Madam P on May 23, 2007, 01:57:22 AM
Total waste of perfectly good and potentially useful dynamite for that stupid demonstration, and it risked giving away their plan to the Others, too.  (Why the Others don't have a scout hiding in the woods I'll never know... probably because Juliet and Naomi are the scouts... LOL!) 

Is there a "Is Jack an idiot?" poll like the ones for Juliet and Naomi being liars?   :D
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Sunflower on May 23, 2007, 01:59:44 AM
Count it girl!
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Madam P on May 23, 2007, 02:16:49 AM
Nah, you're the counter... maths is not my strong point...   :D
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Sunflower on May 23, 2007, 02:18:35 AM
I trained Paula well *sigh*

I love that girl!  :D :-*
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Blitz Wing on May 23, 2007, 08:03:40 AM
Respectfully, Blitzwing, I ask you to go back and watch Season One Ep One called "Homecoming" -- truly one of the great Lost episodes.  Jack is all over Ethan. 

I hated the fact that they had a doctor front stage center, but he's grown on me.  I really think he has the welfare of the group in mind!

Ah back in Season One when I liked Jack and he was respectable to me. I just watched the episode again (1x15), looks like Jack kicked the crap out of Ethan but was still upset Charlie shot Ethan up because they could have gotten info from Ethan. It would have been interesting to see what would have happened if they captured Ethan. I would have loved seeing Sayid torture the crap out of Ethan, as apparently Ethan murder Scott (The Lostie on the beach) worse than I remembered (Broke all his bones in his fingers and arms before he snapped his neck. WTF? Ethanís supposed to be a surgeon.....heís more like a thug).

I think Jack was all into kicking the crap out of Ethan because he was protecting Claire, Ethan killed Scott......but mostly I got the impression that he was doing it because Jack got beat up by Ethan earlier. In the Episode Recap it showed Jack getting the crap kicked out of him by Ethan. I think this was when Ethan originally kidnapped Claire and Jack couldn't stop him. So interestingly enough I think more than anything Jack was only beating up Ethan with so much enthusiasm because he lost to Ethan in a fight earlier. Kind of like if the bully beats you up, you go and beat the snot out of the bully really good and then leave him be. I didn't get any sense of malice in Jack after he beat up Ethan, so what I'm saying is......maybe Jack wouldn't have allowed Sayid to Torture Ethan. Maybe Jack would have just done a "Keep Ben Prisoner" thing. I would have shot Ethan in the leg, you canít run away or fight effectively with a gunshot wound to the leg.

I do want to note in this Episode (1x15).....Jack running with a loaded gun at Ethan & Clare (Not very safe), Jack losing his gun just in the act of tackling Ethan (What were you thinking Jack?), Charlie gets this dropped gun and shoot Ethan. Should Ethan had gotten the dropped gun, it might have not turned out too well.
Title: Re: Jack a lousy leader and a hypocrite
Post by: Madam P on May 23, 2007, 03:43:16 PM
Yet another example...  ;D

See?  I told you he was an idiot...

I'd count everybody up but I only have four toes...