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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 3 => Episode 3x19 => Topic started by: LostGirlDeb on May 03, 2007, 10:11:51 AM

Title: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: LostGirlDeb on May 03, 2007, 10:11:51 AM
Wow the only thing I kept thinking is....
What did Ben mean when he kept telling Locke that he was the one that brought Cooper to the island.
Is it possible that the island is a magic place and it allows you to
face the demons of your past?  And if this is true do the people that you need to see just manifest themselves?
Although Cooper didn't seem to just "manifest"  His explanation of how he got there was more in the lines of some sort of grand consipracy (yes again!)
What do you guys think ?
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: LostbutFound on May 03, 2007, 10:20:24 AM
I was thinking about this myself.  It kind of reminds me of the Monkey's Paw.  That is a short story written by W. W. Jacobs.  In the story the monkey's paw will grant you three wishes.  The only problem is that something terrible has to happen for the wishes to be granted.  I thought about this as far as Ben needing a back surgeon and there "fell one out of the sky."  The problem was now there are more people on the island (and many others died because of it...not that Ben cared).  Then Ben keeps telling Locke that he's the one who "brought" Anthony Cooper there.  Maybe Locke really wanted Cooper dead, but he would have to be the one to kill him.  Heck I don't know I know that my story has many holes in it, its just the first thing I thought of.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: puff6962 on May 03, 2007, 10:54:54 AM
It was the mind of Sawyer who divined Cooper to the island.    Perhaps it was Locke who first put two and two together from Sawyer's file.  The others had just reported the events of Sawyer's life, but Locke knew his father, recognized the similarities to Sawyer, and imagined the circumstances of the death of Sawyer's parents.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: Ladybug on May 03, 2007, 10:57:35 AM
i don't know debs, but i've been wondering that.  i think there is a much more PHYSICAL way that cooper came to the island, but i think that ben WANTS locke to believe that cooper came to the island because he dreamed it, or thought it.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: kkehoe5 on May 03, 2007, 11:08:56 AM
I think Sawyer "James" is the real ONE not Locke. Sawyer is the one who brought Cooper, he killed a Polarbear, was shot more times then 50 cent.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: Maxor127 on May 03, 2007, 11:09:19 AM
Another reason I'm thinking it wasn't really his dad and was the smoke monster or something else similar to other people seeing things from their past.  I think it was an island test.  Or Ben was just messing with Locke and they really did kidnap his dad, which seems like a lot of trouble just to humiliate Locke.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: LostGirlDeb on May 03, 2007, 11:10:58 AM
Another reason I'm thinking it wasn't really his dad and was the smoke monster or something else similar to other people seeing things from their past.  I think it was an island test.  Or Ben was just messing with Locke and they really did kidnap his dad, which seems like a lot of trouble just to humiliate Locke.

Island Test is my guess (By Island I mean= Dharma conspiracy- Test)
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: Shanimal on May 03, 2007, 11:24:05 AM
If its not the "Real Sawyer" who's going to be wrapped up in the tarp when Locke drops the body at Ben's feet next week??  I'm thinking its a test also.  I also like the idea of Sawyer being the "Real One"!!
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: char1 on May 03, 2007, 11:56:53 AM
interesting theory that Sawyer brought him there.  Sawyer was definitely facing his demons last night.

As far as Cooper being the smoke monster, I honestly believe the Others are afraid of Smokey and don't know what it's all about.  Smokey is connected to the island and he's out to judge and weed out it's inhabitants.  I think Cooper got there just like everyone else, he was hit on purpose, drugged on purpose, and transported, thinking he is dead.  Of course he thought Locke died on a plane, the whole world believes they were all dead. 
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: cbw420 on May 03, 2007, 12:03:00 PM
I think cooper made it clear that the others brought him there,

ironically he was hit from behind, the medics smiled at him and next thing he knew he was on the island, i bet it was a creepy smile as well
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: LostGirlDeb on May 03, 2007, 12:04:36 PM
I think cooper made it clear that the others brought him there,

ironically he was hit from behind, the medics smiled at him and next thing he knew he was on the island, i bet it was a creepy smile as well

LOL I was thinking that exact same thing about the smile I mean
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: matahari on May 03, 2007, 12:05:29 PM
I think cooper made it clear that the others brought him there,

ironically he was hit from behind, the medics smiled at him and next thing he knew he was on the island, i bet it was a creepy smile as well

I bet it was Ethan!
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: casino on May 03, 2007, 12:12:05 PM
interesting theory that Sawyer brought him there.  Sawyer was definitely facing his demons last night.

As far as Cooper being the smoke monster, I honestly believe the Others are afraid of Smokey and don't know what it's all about.  Smokey is connected to the island and he's out to judge and weed out it's inhabitants.  I think Cooper got there just like everyone else, he was hit on purpose, drugged on purpose, and transported, thinking he is dead.  Of course he thought Locke died on a plane, the whole world believes they were all dead. 

This is my take on it as well.  As Ben said, the magic box is just a metaphor.  I think what he is talking about is the fact that the Others are well connected and can make things happen, on the Island or off.  For them, the seemingly impossible is easily accomplished.  They can heal your sister's cancer.  They can find a man from your past that you could never track down and lay him right at your feet.  They can find out things about your past that you think nobody else can possibly know.  He's talking about the power to make things happen, not some sort of magic.

It may appear miraculous, but only because of the level of influence it would take to make it physically happen.  Obviously the Others and their associates have that level of influence.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: cbw420 on May 03, 2007, 12:14:15 PM
interesting theory that Sawyer brought him there.  Sawyer was definitely facing his demons last night.

As far as Cooper being the smoke monster, I honestly believe the Others are afraid of Smokey and don't know what it's all about.  Smokey is connected to the island and he's out to judge and weed out it's inhabitants.  I think Cooper got there just like everyone else, he was hit on purpose, drugged on purpose, and transported, thinking he is dead.  Of course he thought Locke died on a plane, the whole world believes they were all dead. 

This is my take on it as well.  As Ben said, the magic box is just a metaphor.  I think what he is talking about is the fact that the Others are well connected and can make things happen, on the Island or off.  For them, the seemingly impossible is easily accomplished.  They can heal your sister's cancer.  They can find a man from your past that you could never track down and lay him right at your feet.  They can find out things about your past that you think nobody else can possibly know.  He's talking about the power to make things happen, not some sort of magic.

It may appear miraculous, but only because of the level of influence it would take to make it physically happen.  Obviously the Others and their associates have that level of influence.

'

I LOVE THAT WE'RE ON THE SAME PAGE NOW
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: LostGirlDeb on May 03, 2007, 12:17:06 PM
interesting theory that Sawyer brought him there.  Sawyer was definitely facing his demons last night.

As far as Cooper being the smoke monster, I honestly believe the Others are afraid of Smokey and don't know what it's all about.  Smokey is connected to the island and he's out to judge and weed out it's inhabitants.  I think Cooper got there just like everyone else, he was hit on purpose, drugged on purpose, and transported, thinking he is dead.  Of course he thought Locke died on a plane, the whole world believes they were all dead. 

This is my take on it as well.  As Ben said, the magic box is just a metaphor.  I think what he is talking about is the fact that the Others are well connected and can make things happen, on the Island or off.  For them, the seemingly impossible is easily accomplished.  They can heal your sister's cancer.  They can find a man from your past that you could never track down and lay him right at your feet.  They can find out things about your past that you think nobody else can possibly know.  He's talking about the power to make things happen, not some sort of magic.

It may appear miraculous, but only because of the level of influence it would take to make it physically happen.  Obviously the Others and their associates have that level of influence.


I love that Casino and good point
Thanks for that!  Makes a lot more sense  that "magic" in the true sense
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: LoniZeppelin on May 04, 2007, 10:01:41 AM
i am terrrible with names... but its kind of weird that when ben opens the door to show locke who is in it that guy is there... and then that guy hands locke sawyers file... he  obviously just arrived, with the file, the bag and the fancy shirt he has on. we know they have people off the island working... so the hit him in the car took him in an ambulance. the iv was prob a tranq. just my thoughts
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: DaddyBeast on May 04, 2007, 02:21:56 PM
The other thing we know is that the time-frame for Cooper's arrival was after the plane crash and after the word got out that the passengers were all dead.

He says that he woke up to find that he was looking at his dead son, so unless they induced a coma, I think they only knocked him out for a day or two tops.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: eelpie62 on May 04, 2007, 02:29:12 PM
When Ben tells Ram Dass "Bring me the man from Tallahassee" does he mean "go to Tallahassee and get him" or does he mean "get the guy in the boiler room down the hall, the one from Tallahassee"? The latter would indicate that Fireman DeSoto was already on the island for some as yet un-known reason.
I had assumed the former, except that these scenes take place after the purple sky occurance, which makes it now seem impossible. I'm now leaning more towards the "magic box" theory, and it's seeming more and more that James Ford brought him there, not John Locke.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: CurtYanko on May 04, 2007, 02:46:14 PM
interesting theory that Sawyer brought him there.  Sawyer was definitely facing his demons last night.

As far as Cooper being the smoke monster, I honestly believe the Others are afraid of Smokey and don't know what it's all about.  Smokey is connected to the island and he's out to judge and weed out it's inhabitants.  I think Cooper got there just like everyone else, he was hit on purpose, drugged on purpose, and transported, thinking he is dead.  Of course he thought Locke died on a plane, the whole world believes they were all dead. 

This is my take on it as well.  As Ben said, the magic box is just a metaphor.  I think what he is talking about is the fact that the Others are well connected and can make things happen, on the Island or off.  For them, the seemingly impossible is easily accomplished.  They can heal your sister's cancer.  They can find a man from your past that you could never track down and lay him right at your feet.  They can find out things about your past that you think nobody else can possibly know.  He's talking about the power to make things happen, not some sort of magic.

It may appear miraculous, but only because of the level of influence it would take to make it physically happen.  Obviously the Others and their associates have that level of influence.


I think the box as a metaphor just means there is no box. Metaphors are just ways of explaining something in different terms.

Main Entry: met·a·phor
Pronunciation: 'me-t&-"for also -f&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English methaphor, from Middle French or Latin; Middle French metaphore, from Latin metaphora, from Greek, from metapherein to transfer, from meta- + pherein to bear -- more at BEAR
1 : a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them (as in drowning in money)

Besides, comms are down so the idea of being very well connected isn't working anymore. I think there is something akin to magic going on. We keep seeing Stephen Hawkins book and phrases like 'only fools are enslaved by space and time'.

Back to the original thread. This phrase has bothered more than almost any other line in the episode. I figure it is one of two things... either Ben is messing with Locke, pushing emotional buttons and all or there is some truth to it.

If there is some truth to it then you have to ask, is it just the island? or can people 'connected' to the island invoke it (closer to the box metaphor). So maybe, Locke's desire to ensure his father 'couldn't get him' actually triggered Cooper being brought???

To me people have only come to this island in one of two ways, they were brought or they crashed there (possibly still having been brought on some mystical level or whatever). So to me, the only thing that makes sense is that Ben sent someone like Richard to go get him and they can do that through what might appear as magical since they are not enslaved by space and time but what really has some explanation in quantum physics or psuedo-science.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: Lost_Is_My_Favorite on May 05, 2007, 11:52:58 AM
I think Sawyer "James" is the real ONE not Locke. Sawyer is the one who brought Cooper, he killed a Polarbear, was shot more times then 50 cent.


LMBO!  That was good.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on May 05, 2007, 05:55:56 PM
The others brought him there just like they brought Juliet there.  I think that he was brought to the island by the sub marine right before Locke "blew it up." 

This would mean that they were about to go get Locke again or somehow knew he was coming.  Im going with the fact that they were about to go get him again. 

When Ben told Mr. Friendly to go get the man from Tallahasee, i think this was saying go gethim and put him in that room so i can tell locke about a magic box which is just a metaphor and to make Locke think that the island is more magical than it really is.

Also when Cooper states that he was hit from behind and the paramedic smiled at him I think this was probably "Robert" ( the guy that was with Ethan to get Julliet, i think that is his name)

He thought he was in hell because "the news told him that the flight was found and they said all the names of the people who were dead.  So when he saw his son he thought he had to be in hell.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: T Mack on May 07, 2007, 12:58:21 PM
Quote
So when he saw his son he thought he had to be in hell.
  Why would Locked 'be in hell'?  What has he done to deserve that.  I don't think this theory is valid at all if you use that logic....Sawyer could have been in hell, yes, but not Locke.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: jugdish on May 07, 2007, 01:08:48 PM
Many reasons why Locke would be in hell. Did not go to church, worked on a pot farm, sold drugs etc. He is a non repented sinner.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: T Mack on May 07, 2007, 01:49:02 PM
Many reasons why Locke would be in hell. Did not go to church, worked on a pot farm, sold drugs etc. He is a non repented sinner.
  I don't see any sins there!  Who ever said 'going to church' was the only religion? There are Buddhists, Hindus and others that beleive quite differently...perhaps church is in 'nature' itself.  Also, God made 'pot'.  Marijuana is a plant, nothing more, nothing less.  Selling it or using it hardly qualifies as a 'sin' worthy of eternal damnation.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: jugdish on May 07, 2007, 03:04:41 PM
It all depends on what you believe in. I am just saying there are possible reasons for Locke being in hell. We do not know his whole life story. Also just because God makes something, it does not mean you have to injest it and sell it for profit. It is called temptation. I am not the prude I am sounding like, just throwing out possbilities.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: cbw420 on May 07, 2007, 03:41:55 PM
I am not the prude I am sounding like, just throwing out possbilities.

god i hope not, plus marijuana has been referenced in all religious memoirs/books/bibles/ etc etc LOL
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: jugdish on May 07, 2007, 03:49:05 PM
I am not stating that he should be in hell, just possible reasons why. I am not making a religous statement at all.

But until I die, I won't know which of my sins will be keeping me out!
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: T Mack on May 07, 2007, 06:01:54 PM
I am not stating that he should be in hell, just possible reasons why. I am not making a religous statement at all.

But until I die, I won't know which of my sins will be keeping me out!
  I'll bet you 1,000 of your post counts that they are dead in the Bali trench. :-\
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: cbw420 on May 07, 2007, 08:54:59 PM
I am not stating that he should be in hell, just possible reasons why. I am not making a religous statement at all.

But until I die, I won't know which of my sins will be keeping me out!

me neither.......on all accounts
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: JBRam on May 07, 2007, 09:13:55 PM
I am not stating that he should be in hell, just possible reasons why. I am not making a religous statement at all.

But until I die, I won't know which of my sins will be keeping me out!
I'll bet you 1,000 of your post counts that they are dead in the Bali trench. :-\
I see your 1000, and I raise to 10,000 that they ARE NOT DEAD.

If they are all dead, I will delete my profile and start over again.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: Ladybug on May 08, 2007, 02:07:00 PM
I am not stating that he should be in hell, just possible reasons why. I am not making a religous statement at all.

But until I die, I won't know which of my sins will be keeping me out!
I'll bet you 1,000 of your post counts that they are dead in the Bali trench. :-\
I see your 1000, and I raise to 10,000 that they ARE NOT DEAD.

If they are all dead, I will delete my profile and start over again.
if they are all dead, i will delete my profile and never watch lost again.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: LostGirlDeb on May 09, 2007, 12:33:48 PM
So maybe its really simple
The island has "magical" powers and is able to "bring up" or "call up"
people places and things that a person needs to deal with.
So since Locke had such daddy issues he was "called up" by him (Locke) so he could deal and move on.
Move on to what?  I don't know, possibly the next level of consciousness that he will need to fully understand the island and what goes on there.
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: JBRam on May 09, 2007, 12:45:47 PM
I am not stating that he should be in hell, just possible reasons why. I am not making a religous statement at all.

But until I die, I won't know which of my sins will be keeping me out!
I'll bet you 1,000 of your post counts that they are dead in the Bali trench. :-\
I see your 1000, and I raise to 10,000 that they ARE NOT DEAD.

If they are all dead, I will delete my profile and start over again.
if they are all dead, i will delete my profile and never watch lost again.
Well if LB leaves, there's really no reason for me to stick around, is there? :D
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: Ladybug on May 18, 2007, 01:49:57 PM
I am not stating that he should be in hell, just possible reasons why. I am not making a religous statement at all.

But until I die, I won't know which of my sins will be keeping me out!
I'll bet you 1,000 of your post counts that they are dead in the Bali trench. :-\
I see your 1000, and I raise to 10,000 that they ARE NOT DEAD.

If they are all dead, I will delete my profile and start over again.
if they are all dead, i will delete my profile and never watch lost again.
Well if LB leaves, there's really no reason for me to stick around, is there? :D
you still have princess.[/colro]
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 18, 2007, 01:58:44 PM
If LB leaves, then who am I going to agree with all the time? :-[ :D
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: Ladybug on May 19, 2007, 02:27:56 PM
If LB leaves, then who am I going to agree with all the time? :-[ :D
you still have juggie
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: PrincessLeia on May 19, 2007, 08:05:51 PM
If LB leaves, then who am I going to agree with all the time? :-[ :D
you still have juggie
True...but doesn't he agree with you?

ohmygoodness!  It just hit me!  LB is Jacob! :D
Title: Re: Ben "You brought him here"
Post by: Ladybug on May 21, 2007, 12:14:09 PM
If LB leaves, then who am I going to agree with all the time? :-[ :D
you still have juggie
True...but doesn't he agree with you?

ohmygoodness!  It just hit me!  LB is Jacob! :D
shhhh!!  don't tell anyone.