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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 3 => Episode 3x18 => Topic started by: JBRam on April 26, 2007, 12:26:43 AM

Title: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: JBRam on April 26, 2007, 12:26:43 AM
This line makes me think that Juliet is acting against her will. I know everyone is saying don't trust her, but maybe she's actually trying to help the Losties in some way. I mean really, Sun DOES need help or she'll die... same with Kate if she turns out to be pregnant.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: puff6962 on April 26, 2007, 12:29:42 AM
She didn't depress the record button on that statement.  I think that she is unhappy with the difficult task she has been assigned.  But, if she is, why is she doing it?  Why is she still loyal to Ben and a partner in his manipulations?

Did he again promise to get her off of the island?
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: JBRam on April 26, 2007, 12:39:27 AM
Maybe because as long as Ben doesn't know that she's doing it for the Losties, then he won't get in her way... Plus he wants to know more about the pregnancies and if they can have kids and not die.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on April 26, 2007, 12:48:11 AM
I agree with you JB.  She is taking advantage of the situation to help the Losties, while still keeping face with the Others.  We'll find out in one island week!
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: dcnole on April 26, 2007, 12:51:24 AM
I don't think there is any doubt that she is conflicted about her role in all of this.  While she is a good liar, we've seen her frustration on so many different occasions, as well as her overwhelming desire to leave the island.  The question is simply whether or not she is, has, or will do anything to actively help the castaways. 
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on April 26, 2007, 01:58:54 AM
Ben is abviously holding something over her head maybe saying if you want your sister to stay alive then you do what i say.

Ben knows that jullietes sister is the only person in the world that means anything to her.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: dcnole on April 26, 2007, 02:18:42 AM
Ben is abviously holding something over her head maybe saying if you want your sister to stay alive then you do what i say.

Ben knows that jullietes sister is the only person in the world that means anything to her.
It may be nothing more than the fact that she thinks the Others will kill her if she refuses to comply, or she thinks she can't survive on her own on the island with the smoke monster and all sorts of other craziness around.  That's why she keeps begging to be taken home, but when refused, doesn't rebel further. 
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: AstroJones on April 26, 2007, 02:43:09 AM
I think Juliet would be more concerned about Ben killing her sister than killing her.  I think that she is 100% helping Ben, and not actually planning to help the losties at this point, but I think that scene was to show us that she isn't happy about it.  She's helping Ben because she feels that's her only way out right now, and the only way to keep her sister safe.  However, if she gets the chance, and can ensure her sister lives and she get's off the island, then she would sacrifice the losties I think.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: Kinuvia on April 26, 2007, 02:47:50 AM
Ben is abviously holding something over her head maybe saying if you want your sister to stay alive then you do what i say.

Ben knows that jullietes sister is the only person in the world that means anything to her.
It may be nothing more than the fact that she thinks the Others will kill her if she refuses to comply, or she thinks she can't survive on her own on the island with the smoke monster and all sorts of other craziness around.  That's why she keeps begging to be taken home, but when refused, doesn't rebel further. 

I STILL think that Juliet is pregnant. She is going along with Ben because she conceived on the island (with Goodwin) and she knows she's going to die unless she gets off the island.  She is doing everything/anything she can do to try and leave before her time is up.  ::)
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: thlaylirah on April 26, 2007, 06:51:25 AM
I think Juliet is 100% helping Juliet.  She will do whatever, help/hurt/kill whoever to save herself and her sister.  She will use whoever can help her the most and now that is Ben, but I dont see her being loyal to anyone but herself. 
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: HanginWithMrEko on April 26, 2007, 09:38:39 AM
Ben is abviously holding something over her head maybe saying if you want your sister to stay alive then you do what i say.

Ben knows that jullietes sister is the only person in the world that means anything to her.
It may be nothing more than the fact that she thinks the Others will kill her if she refuses to comply, or she thinks she can't survive on her own on the island with the smoke monster and all sorts of other craziness around.  That's why she keeps begging to be taken home, but when refused, doesn't rebel further. 

I STILL think that Juliet is pregnant. She is going along with Ben because she conceived on the island (with Goodwin) and she knows she's going to die unless she gets off the island.  She is doing everything/anything she can do to try and leave before her time is up.  ::)

She would be taking part in some fairly physical activities if she was pregnant. It would be at least 3 months and she'd be showing some, or so I would believe...
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: Ladybug on April 26, 2007, 10:50:31 AM
I don't think there is any doubt that she is conflicted about her role in all of this.  While she is a good liar, we've seen her frustration on so many different occasions, as well as her overwhelming desire to leave the island.  The question is simply whether or not she is, has, or will do anything to actively help the castaways. 
i TOTALLY agree.  i think she is completely conflicted and frustrated.
Ben is abviously holding something over her head
yep, but i don't think it's her sister.  juliet's job on the island is/was to make pregnant women NOT die.  she has not accomplished her job yet, and as long as she hasn't ben will not let her go home.  she hates him because he won't let her leave.  she is helping sun for 2 reasons.  1)  juliet is human, she doesn't want anyone to die.  if she saves sun and the baby's life, the losties will trust her.  2)  if she saves sun and the baby, ben will let her off the island. 
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on April 26, 2007, 10:52:55 AM
I think Juliet is 100% helping Juliet.  She will do whatever, help/hurt/kill whoever to save herself and her sister.  She will use whoever can help her the most and now that is Ben, but I dont see her being loyal to anyone but herself. 

Well stated!!
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: nothingbutsky on April 26, 2007, 11:06:30 AM
I think Juliet is 100% helping Juliet.  She will do whatever, help/hurt/kill whoever to save herself and her sister.  She will use whoever can help her the most and now that is Ben, but I dont see her being loyal to anyone but herself. 

Well stated!!

I think Juliet is way bad, one of the things that stick with me about her was early on, she pulled a gun on Kate (I think it was Kate) and Kate later said something like "I KNOW she would've killed me..."

And I really friggin' hate that s***eating smirk of hers! If I were one of those Losties she'd have a red, stinging mark on her cheek about the size of my hand ;-)
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on April 26, 2007, 11:07:54 AM
Close Sawyer told Kate that Juliet would of shot her in a second. But the idea is there, she is cold and is only looking out for herself.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: LostGirlDeb on April 26, 2007, 11:21:18 AM
I agree that Juliette is out to help herself and her sister...
but I do see a human side to her and I agree with LB that on some level she wants her work to finally matter and deep down she is good. 
She really never knew what she was in for when she came to the island and is doing her best to survive the nightmare.

As for whether she will betray the Losties?
not sure yet...I think she will do whatever is necessary to achieve her goal and I think that would be to get home to her sister, so if that means betraying the Losties then she will.  But I think she would do the same with Ben if it served her purpose.

I do think she will continue to surprise us.
I do not think she is evil.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: Austruck on April 26, 2007, 11:41:01 AM
I think the purpose of the Juliet flashbacks is to show us that she was NOTHING like this in her pre-island life. That part still makes me hold out hope that she will eventually do right by the right people. Yes, she's being incredibly pragmatic and focused, but I can't help thinking she's not a heartless b*tch by nature. At least, she wasn't in her "real" life.

An experience like this can change a person, yes, but it usually wouldn't change your sense of right and wrong.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: WG?JIFFY on April 26, 2007, 11:43:24 AM
Jug or Thlay had it right!
Juliet is out for Juliet.  She is not necessarily evil as long as you can help her off the island, then she will be nice to your face.  But if you can't help her off, then watch the hell out because she is gonna run you down if that is what it takes.  

Juliet is a "B" and that is that.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: LostGirlDeb on April 26, 2007, 11:47:25 AM
I think the purpose of the Juliet flashbacks is to show us that she was NOTHING like this in her pre-island life. That part still makes me hold out hope that she will eventually do right by the right people. Yes, she's being incredibly pragmatic and focused, but I can't help thinking she's not a heartless b*tch by nature. At least, she wasn't in her "real" life.

An experience like this can change a person, yes, but it usually wouldn't change your sense of right and wrong.

YES! AND I AGREE!
Maybe it is what I want to be true
but we have seen the way she was pre-island
She has to do whatever it takes now to survive
But in the end she will do the right thing
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: *MaZ* on April 26, 2007, 01:43:06 PM
Juliet is only concerned about Juliet.
She'll do anything to get what she wants, and that is to get out of the island. She doesn't give a crap if it requires sacrificing Sun and her baby, Kate, or Jack for that matter.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: matahari on April 26, 2007, 02:50:15 PM
Ben mentioned that Sabina knew she could die by getting pregnant. She knew the ramifications and was willing to take the risk. However the losties didn't have that choice. They were not volunteers. Does Juliet resent Ben for not allowing them to have free will?
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: MaxsDad on April 26, 2007, 02:51:28 PM
I think Juliet is 100% helping Juliet.  She will do whatever, help/hurt/kill whoever to save herself and her sister.  She will use whoever can help her the most and now that is Ben, but I dont see her being loyal to anyone but herself. 

Well stated!!
Ditto!
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: WhatThe on April 26, 2007, 03:32:25 PM
If Juliet "only cares about Juliet" and will f*** over anyone in her quest to do what is best for her, she would never say "I hate you" to Ben, especially when she knows nobody can hear her. Saying that means that her emotions and heart are not into what she is presently doing...and if she "only cares about Juliet" then her emotions would not be effected one iota by what she's doing, because she would see it as helping and furthering her own needs and agenda.

It's pretty obvious the writers want us to see that Juliet is not simply a manipulative b*tch, and that the friendly woman who lived in Florida who was genuine and sincere in her desire to help women become pregnant is still there. They want that to be the wild card in all this...will she ultimately keep helping Ben or will she align herself with the Losties?

I guess Juliet's "I hate you" statement underscores her trying to get Jack to kill Ben on the operating table, huh lol...
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: *MaZ* on April 26, 2007, 05:38:47 PM
If Juliet "only cares about Juliet" and will f*** over anyone in her quest to do what is best for her, she would never say "I hate you" to Ben, especially when she knows nobody can hear her.
She hates having to keep doing his deeds in order to (maybe) get away from the mess she put herself into. 
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: miketrapasso on April 26, 2007, 05:42:36 PM
Sorry to whoever I'm stealing this joke from, but...if Juliet ends up betraying the Losties, i'll run around the site naked.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: WhatThe on April 26, 2007, 05:58:53 PM
If Juliet "only cares about Juliet" and will f*** over anyone in her quest to do what is best for her, she would never say "I hate you" to Ben, especially when she knows nobody can hear her.
She hates having to keep doing his deeds in order to (maybe) get away from the mess she put herself into. 

She didn't say "I hate this"...she said "I hate you". Not to mention that anyone who is truly only about what benefits them and them alone, doesn't really care about the deeds they have to do.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: JBRam on April 26, 2007, 10:00:59 PM
Ok, I am the guy who came up with that insane theory back before S2 began that said what if the Others aren't all bad?

I'm am reviving that now to say that I think JULIET is GOOD! She wants to help the Losties, and I agree w/ Colonel Locke that Juliet won't betray them. She'll leave Ben first.

Rachel is out of her hands. She can't help Rachel and there's nothing that she can do to change Rachel's fate.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on April 27, 2007, 09:58:11 AM
Your theory is still wrong. Juliet may help the losties but for only her own personal gain. She is a self serving killer, just like the rest of the others.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: MaxsDad on April 27, 2007, 10:01:18 AM
I agree with you to a point Juggy, I think its all about getting off the island and getting back to her family. But also I think her sympathies are leaning toward the Losties and she has a thing for Jack.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: LostGirlDeb on April 27, 2007, 11:10:16 AM
Don't agree that Juliet is ALL Bad

And JB I had many people hate me for saying that the others were not all bad depending on the perspective that you looked at things.

I think Juliet is out for Juliet YES but... I really do beleive that if given the choice she would go against the others and Ben before she would go against the Losties.

I think she will continue to surprise us, but ultimately I think she will turn out to be  one of the "good ones"
We saw her pre-island and she didn't stike me as a "bad" person.
I guess hurry up and wait and see
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: JBRam on April 27, 2007, 12:52:09 PM
Don't agree that Juliet is ALL Bad

And JB I had many people hate me for saying that the others were not all bad depending on the perspective that you looked at things.

I think Juliet is out for Juliet YES but... I really do beleive that if given the choice she would go against the others and Ben before she would go against the Losties.

I think she will continue to surprise us, but ultimately I think she will turn out to be  one of the "good ones"
We saw her pre-island and she didn't stike me as a "bad" person.
I guess hurry up and wait and see
I agree, Debbie. I mean, sure, she's killed in the past. She isn't a saint. But none of our Losties are saints either. Juliet's pre-island experience suggests the only thing she did wrong was use her sister (WITH CONSENT) for testing, which might be against a doctor's complicated morals. She wasn't a druggie (Charlie), torturer (Sayid), weed-farmer (Locke), fugitive (Kate), or idiot doctor who can't keep a girl and contributed to his daddy's death (Jack).
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on April 27, 2007, 01:14:02 PM
Wow, now Jack killed his dad! That is a new development. Missed that episdoe. Its all relative. Juliet will do what helps her only.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: JBRam on April 27, 2007, 02:37:09 PM
Wow, now Jack killed his dad! That is a new development. Missed that episdoe. Its all relative. Juliet will do what helps her only.
He broke up the AA meeting which led his daddy back to drinking and ended up dying probably due to alcohol... Not my theory, someone else's.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on April 27, 2007, 02:52:33 PM
That is a big leap in logic. The dad was a long time drunk. We do not know that after that meeting he immediately went back on the bottle and killed himself. There is a lot left to that story.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: JBRam on April 27, 2007, 03:00:10 PM
True, but as I said, I borrowed the theory from someone else. Not sure who, but I'm sure it's in the thread for Epi 1.

Also, Jack ratted his daddy-o out and that made Christian ashamed enough to leave and go to Australia, where he died.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on April 27, 2007, 03:01:25 PM
If you do not believe in the theory then why state it?

His dad was a drunk who operated drunk, not really Jack's fault.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: JBRam on April 27, 2007, 03:24:26 PM
I think you missed the point of my post...

She isn't a saint. But none of our Losties are saints either. Juliet's pre-island experience suggests the only thing she did wrong was use her sister (WITH CONSENT) for testing, which might be against a doctor's complicated morals. She wasn't a druggie (Charlie), torturer (Sayid), weed-farmer (Locke), fugitive (Kate), or idiot doctor who can't keep a girl and contributed to his daddy's death (Jack).

which is that this Other is a lot better than most, if not all of our major Losties.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on April 27, 2007, 03:28:01 PM
(shaking my head) who cares what she was 3.5 years ago. It is her actions now. All she wants is to get off the island and she will do anything to accomplish that.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: JBRam on April 27, 2007, 03:33:59 PM
I still think she is very trustworthy in comparison to the rest of the Others (such as Pickett and Ben)
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: MaxsDad on April 27, 2007, 04:14:34 PM
I still think she is very trustworthy in comparison to the rest of the Others (such as Pickett and Ben)
She has a heart and a conscience. But she is still one of them!

Pull a Cotton Mouth out of a box full of rattle snakes just because its not like the rest....its still a snake your holding and a dangerous one at that.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on April 27, 2007, 04:18:17 PM
I still think she is very trustworthy in comparison to the rest of the Others (such as Pickett and Ben)
She has a heart and a conscience. But she is still one of them!

Pull a Cotton Mouth out of a box full of rattle snakes just because its not like the rest....its still a snake your holding and a dangerous one at that.

That is two straight great posts by you!! Well done.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: MaxsDad on April 27, 2007, 04:19:07 PM
I still think she is very trustworthy in comparison to the rest of the Others (such as Pickett and Ben)
She has a heart and a conscience. But she is still one of them!

Pull a Cotton Mouth out of a box full of rattle snakes just because its not like the rest....its still a snake your holding and a dangerous one at that.

That is two straight great posts by you!! Well done.
Hey wait a minute what the..... :-\
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on April 27, 2007, 04:20:28 PM
I still think she is very trustworthy in comparison to the rest of the Others (such as Pickett and Ben)
She has a heart and a conscience. But she is still one of them!

Pull a Cotton Mouth out of a box full of rattle snakes just because its not like the rest....its still a snake your holding and a dangerous one at that.

That is two straight great posts by you!! Well done.
Hey wait a minute what the..... :-\

ahhh it was a compliment
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: MaxsDad on April 27, 2007, 04:28:20 PM
Ummm...thank you...I think!?!?!   (waiting for the punch line.) :(
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on April 27, 2007, 04:29:46 PM
Just complimenting your way with words. You made great points.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: MaxsDad on April 27, 2007, 04:38:11 PM
Ahhh thanks, well I usually do!  ::)
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: Wishbone on April 27, 2007, 08:11:29 PM
I think Juliette is worse than some of the others - at least they are honest in their nastiness - she is sly and duplicitous and is only doing things that will serve her in some way. I thought the I hate you comment to Ben was self pitying and it made me dislike her even more.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: joshzam on April 27, 2007, 08:41:56 PM
Juliet is obviously very manipulative and simple logic tells us that she should not have been trusted and brought back to the Losties' beach camp (they've got nothing to gain and everything to lose). I am personally torn as to whether she is essentially good or evil, but until we see a flashback episode for anyone other than the Losties (our heroes, the good guys), I am forced to believe that Juliet is good and will do the right thing in the end. I feel that flashbacks are reserved for the good guys.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: Ladybug on April 28, 2007, 11:29:13 AM
Don't agree that Juliet is ALL Bad

And JB I had many people hate me for saying that the others were not all bad depending on the perspective that you looked at things.

I think Juliet is out for Juliet YES but... I really do beleive that if given the choice she would go against the others and Ben before she would go against the Losties.

I think she will continue to surprise us, but ultimately I think she will turn out to be  one of the "good ones"
We saw her pre-island and she didn't stike me as a "bad" person.
I guess hurry up and wait and see
i completely agree.  i want to add though that juliet may lie and she may still betray the idea of what we think she is, or should do, but ultimately we will find out that she is GOOD.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: Ladybug on April 28, 2007, 11:32:01 AM
Pull a Cotton Mouth out of a box full of rattle snakes just because its not like the rest....its still a snake your holding and a dangerous one at that.
yes, but you can also say:  Pull a Black Snake out of a box of rattle snakes, and even though it IS like the rest (a snake), it's NOT a dangerous one.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: ILoveLost on April 28, 2007, 12:04:18 PM
This line makes me think that Juliet is acting against her will. I know everyone is saying don't trust her, but maybe she's actually trying to help the Losties in some way. I mean really, Sun DOES need help or she'll die... same with Kate if she turns out to be pregnant.

I totally agree that Juliet is acting against her will, and even believe that she hates Ben...I'll even take it a step further and say that she is a good person deep down. However, I think she will do anything to get off of the island and Ben is her only way off (that we or she knows of). This is why I don't trust her around the losties. She says "I hate you" but she still leaves the message for Ben, and she doesn't leave that part of the message for him. Even though she doesn't want to do what she's doing she is still doing it (Hope that makes sense...lol)

I started a thread a few shows back that said So, now we are supposed to feel sorry for Juliet. I guess I kinda do but because of this I don't trust her. I've tried to put myself in her position over the last few weeks...If I was stranded on an Island with family I loved back home, I would do ANYTHING to get back to them. I'm sure she feels bad for what she is doing but she HAS to in order to get home. I think I would do the same. But this does make her a threat to the losties in my opinion.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: JBRam on April 28, 2007, 01:12:31 PM
Pull a Cotton Mouth out of a box full of rattle snakes just because its not like the rest....its still a snake your holding and a dangerous one at that.
yes, but you can also say:  Pull a Black Snake out of a box of rattle snakes, and even though it IS like the rest (a snake), it's NOT a dangerous one.
That was exactly what I was gonna say (just with a garden snake ;) ) Juliet is an OTHER, but she has been placed there and being held against her will. She might bite, but the bite isn't gonna kill you... just sting a little. She's benign, but being used by the King Cobra (Ben) for something she doesn't WANT to do.

Now sure, I'm not going to give her a rifle, but I trust her more than I trust Sun.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: matahari on April 28, 2007, 01:28:09 PM
Juliet's favorite book is "Carrie" I think this is telling. Juliet was asked to the prom (island) only to be left behind. She's upset that she trusted them and was betrayed (branded). Gee I hope she has telekenesis. That would be awesome! Can't wait to see her go all bad-a$$ on Ben. Her emotions are powerful and I think maybe can take some other form.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: cbw420 on April 28, 2007, 03:38:11 PM
Your theory is still wrong. Juliet may help the losties but for only her own personal gain. She is a self serving killer, just like the rest of the others.

with all due respect juggy, no ones theory can be wrong per say until proven, and the jury is still out on all this :)


with that being said, my thought is juliet is still a good soul deep down, i dont think she will kill any losties, unless her life is threatened, and i dont think she will do anything ben says because he is her ticket off the island.....its obvious that her little bob dylan skit was true, based on the little "i hate you ben", so if he is her ONLY ticket off the island why kill him??

now i think the reason she is playing both sides of the fence is to gain the losties trust, she cant just up and go against the others without having a definite trust with the losties, simply because she cant be on her own

i think she is helping Sun (and possibly Kate) because she truly wants to see her work actually work......i cant imagine her watching a pregnant woman die without trying to help no matter who it is, its not in her nature

so yes, she has done what she's needed to in order to survive, but to say she is a heartless cold killer is a bit much, i mean some losties have killed people themselves but it was out of survival
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: ILoveLost on April 28, 2007, 05:28:04 PM
Your theory is still wrong. Juliet may help the losties but for only her own personal gain. She is a self serving killer, just like the rest of the others.

with all due respect juggy, no ones theory can be wrong per say until proven, and the jury is still out on all this :)


with that being said, my thought is juliet is still a good soul deep down, i dont think she will kill any losties, unless her life is threatened, and i dont think she will do anything ben says because he is her ticket off the island.....its obvious that her little bob dylan skit was true, based on the little "i hate you ben", so if he is her ONLY ticket off the island why kill him??

now i think the reason she is playing both sides of the fence is to gain the losties trust, she cant just up and go against the others without having a definite trust with the losties, simply because she cant be on her own

i think she is helping Sun (and possibly Kate) because she truly wants to see her work actually work......i cant imagine her watching a pregnant woman die without trying to help no matter who it is, its not in her nature

so yes, she has done what she's needed to in order to survive, but to say she is a heartless cold killer is a bit much, i mean some losties have killed people themselves but it was out of survival

Your post has a lot of really good points that I can spin in my direction too...lol (everything with lost has at least two ways things could go)

As for your question why kill him?? I assume you're talking about her playing that movie for Jack while he was captured. I still think Ben told her to do that, this way Jack would trust her. Ben knows an aweful lot about each of the losties and I think he knew enough about Jack's character to take that bet.

As for her playing both sides of the fence again I think Ben has been setting her up as someone they could trust since the beginning.

I do agree that she wants her work to actually work, but I think that may be a little more selfish than you made it sound. I know that deep down Juliet isw (or used to be) a good person but she was kinda always out for herself (she did leave her pregnant sister who was under her care to go do this research). And I also agree that she is not a heartless cold killer but she will go along with enough plans that have had many of these losties being kidnapped and held against their will.

Juliet will do ANYTHING to go home.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: Ladybug on April 28, 2007, 08:48:57 PM
Your theory is still wrong. Juliet may help the losties but for only her own personal gain. She is a self serving killer, just like the rest of the others.

with all due respect juggy, no ones theory can be wrong per say until proven, and the jury is still out on all this :)


with that being said, my thought is juliet is still a good soul deep down, i dont think she will kill any losties, unless her life is threatened, and i dont think she will do anything ben says because he is her ticket off the island.....its obvious that her little bob dylan skit was true, based on the little "i hate you ben", so if he is her ONLY ticket off the island why kill him??

now i think the reason she is playing both sides of the fence is to gain the losties trust, she cant just up and go against the others without having a definite trust with the losties, simply because she cant be on her own

i think she is helping Sun (and possibly Kate) because she truly wants to see her work actually work......i cant imagine her watching a pregnant woman die without trying to help no matter who it is, its not in her nature

so yes, she has done what she's needed to in order to survive, but to say she is a heartless cold killer is a bit much, i mean some losties have killed people themselves but it was out of survival
i completely agree with you lou.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on April 29, 2007, 12:12:29 PM
I think Juliet has a stronger connection with the Losties than the Others.  They are both being used by Ben and held against their will.  She had no worries killing Pickett because to her, he was part of the problem- the 'monster' that was holding her there.  Not saying she will go to any great lengths to help the Losties off the island, but she has or needs a community feeling from these people.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: ChellyKins on April 29, 2007, 02:36:44 PM
I think Juliet is 100% helping Juliet.  She will do whatever, help/hurt/kill whoever to save herself and her sister.  She will use whoever can help her the most and now that is Ben, but I dont see her being loyal to anyone but herself. 
And I in turn agree with you 100%
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: ChellyKins on April 29, 2007, 02:45:55 PM
I still think she is very trustworthy in comparison to the rest of the Others (such as Pickett and Ben)
She has a heart and a conscience. But she is still one of them!

Pull a Cotton Mouth out of a box full of rattle snakes just because its not like the rest....its still a snake your holding and a dangerous one at that.


I always knew you were a snake handler  ::)

Good point Rick. I like that comparison!
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: LoniZeppelin on April 29, 2007, 07:55:45 PM
i have never not trusted juliet. i always thought she was stuck there and never wanted to be there. she does what ben says hoping for in return he will let her leave from his captive. she always seemed sincere to me and i never thought she was bad. my whole family disagreed with me until last week til the "i hate you" yes she did some bad things to people but also killed that guy to let kate and sawyer go... so shes cool in my book. always nice to jack. i would do whatever i could to get of the island of scerets lies and decite to! she a good person..[/glow][/glow][/glow]
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: matahari on April 29, 2007, 10:50:26 PM
i have never not trusted juliet. i always thought she was stuck there and never wanted to be there. she does what ben says hoping for in return he will let her leave from his captive. she always seemed sincere to me and i never thought she was bad. my whole family disagreed with me until last week til the "i hate you" yes she did some bad things to people but also killed that guy to let kate and sawyer go... so shes cool in my book. always nice to jack. i would do whatever i could to get of the island of scerets lies and decite to! she a good person..[/glow][/glow][/glow]
Ah finally someone else with dyslexia too. secrets and deceit
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: cbw420 on April 30, 2007, 02:39:49 PM
Your theory is still wrong. Juliet may help the losties but for only her own personal gain. She is a self serving killer, just like the rest of the others.

with all due respect juggy, no ones theory can be wrong per say until proven, and the jury is still out on all this :)


with that being said, my thought is juliet is still a good soul deep down, i dont think she will kill any losties, unless her life is threatened, and i dont think she will do anything ben says because he is her ticket off the island.....its obvious that her little bob dylan skit was true, based on the little "i hate you ben", so if he is her ONLY ticket off the island why kill him??

now i think the reason she is playing both sides of the fence is to gain the losties trust, she cant just up and go against the others without having a definite trust with the losties, simply because she cant be on her own

i think she is helping Sun (and possibly Kate) because she truly wants to see her work actually work......i cant imagine her watching a pregnant woman die without trying to help no matter who it is, its not in her nature

so yes, she has done what she's needed to in order to survive, but to say she is a heartless cold killer is a bit much, i mean some losties have killed people themselves but it was out of survival

Your post has a lot of really good points that I can spin in my direction too...lol (everything with lost has at least two ways things could go)

As for your question why kill him?? I assume you're talking about her playing that movie for Jack while he was captured. I still think Ben told her to do that, this way Jack would trust her. Ben knows an aweful lot about each of the losties and I think he knew enough about Jack's character to take that bet.

if ben told her to do this then why put her on a semi-trial.....remember whent he "sheriff" came in and asked jack about what juliet said???

i dont think this would have happened if ben told juliet to do it
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on April 30, 2007, 02:43:50 PM
I can say a theory is wrong at any time, it is my opinion. Just like anyone can say any of my theories is wrong. That is what we are discussing here.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: newyorktower on April 30, 2007, 02:54:51 PM
I'm new here so apologies if I have got this wrong.  Anyway, I think that Juliet has definitely lied to Sun and to Ben.  What she is doing is playing her trump card and she knows that the baby was conceived off the island.  She didn't want to upset Sun by saying that it wasn't Jin's baby so she lied.

As for Ben, if she tells him it was conceived on the island and she goes ahead and 'saves' it, then Ben will let her go home. He will have no reason then to keep her there.

Juliet is a very smart cookie and she is only out to get what she wants.  Obviously Sun will not die because Juliet will 'save' them both
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: JBRam on April 30, 2007, 06:51:23 PM
I can say a theory is wrong at any time, it is my opinion. Just like anyone can say any of my theories is wrong. That is what we are discussing here.
I said many many times that your Christian is alive theory was wrong ;)

To NY tower: I again disagree... I see absolutely no good reason for Juliet to lie. Why? Ben could just as easy come in and take another measurement with Juliet. In fact, they probably will. Then he'll look at it and say "oops, Juliet you lied to us"

Plus, if Kate is pregnant, then Juliet's plight would be null. She'd have to help Kate out. They won't let Juliet leave until they get a healthy baby and what's the best way to do this? Get a lot of expendable people pregnant. Kate and Sawyer had a fun time in the cage. She will skip within a month and then she'll check to see if she's pregnant. There is no way that Kate conceived off-island.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: LoniZeppelin on April 30, 2007, 09:04:04 PM
i have never not trusted juliet. i always thought she was stuck there and never wanted to be there. she does what ben says hoping for in return he will let her leave from his captive. she always seemed sincere to me and i never thought she was bad. my whole family disagreed with me until last week til the "i hate you" yes she did some bad things to people but also killed that guy to let kate and sawyer go... so shes cool in my book. always nice to jack. i would do whatever i could to get of the island of scerets lies and decite to! she a good person..[/glow][/glow][/glow]
Ah finally someone else with dyslexia too. secrets and deceit
yes when i type fast and my computer keeps shuting me off i have to type really fast and hit "POST" before it kicks me off.. sorry for the bad spelling also i so have a small dyslexia problem! hehe seriously oh well~ tchau
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: cbw420 on April 30, 2007, 09:05:23 PM
I can say a theory is wrong at any time, it is my opinion. Just like anyone can say any of my theories is wrong. That is what we are discussing here.

you obviously missed my sarcasm bro
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: cbw420 on April 30, 2007, 09:05:56 PM
I'm new here so apologies if I have got this wrong.  Anyway, I think that Juliet has definitely lied to Sun and to Ben.  What she is doing is playing her trump card and she knows that the baby was conceived off the island.  She didn't want to upset Sun by saying that it wasn't Jin's baby so she lied.

As for Ben, if she tells him it was conceived on the island and she goes ahead and 'saves' it, then Ben will let her go home. He will have no reason then to keep her there.

Juliet is a very smart cookie and she is only out to get what she wants.  Obviously Sun will not die because Juliet will 'save' them both

good thought, i could go with that
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on April 30, 2007, 09:07:12 PM
I can say a theory is wrong at any time, it is my opinion. Just like anyone can say any of my theories is wrong. That is what we are discussing here.

you obviously missed my sarcasm bro

I guess so!! I am in an agressive mood. All this doubt about Jim being the father etc has put me on edge!!

I need some help!
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: matahari on May 01, 2007, 01:18:34 AM
Do we need an anger management off-topic post here. Methinks so. Love ya Jug. get sick of answering the same questions too. Especially when they've been proved false time after time.
NO PURGATORY
CHRISTIAN DEAD
JIN BABY DADDY
ISLAND IS AN ISLAND
ETC....
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on May 01, 2007, 09:54:49 AM

Do we need an anger management off-topic post here. Methinks so. Love ya Jug. get sick of answering the same questions too. Especially when they've been proved false time after time.
NO PURGATORY
CHRISTIAN DEAD
JIN BABY DADDY
ISLAND IS AN ISLAND
ETC....

Thanks! You are better and cheaper than a therapist.
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: matahari on May 01, 2007, 12:39:47 PM
Anytime! Was a bartender for 5 years. Got that all the time
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: jugdish on May 01, 2007, 01:09:32 PM
Then next I want my advice with a drink :D
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: LoniZeppelin on May 01, 2007, 05:21:53 PM
how do u know the island is an island? an island is not man made... doesnt have an electromagnetic field around it... i think its actually loacted near or has sooooome thing to do with the artic region... a good place for people not to look for it... who knows.... but u said it has been proven... i just want to know how it has been proven that its an island ... besides the visual... that its not man made....
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: cbw420 on May 01, 2007, 08:11:58 PM
I can say a theory is wrong at any time, it is my opinion. Just like anyone can say any of my theories is wrong. That is what we are discussing here.

you obviously missed my sarcasm bro

I guess so!! I am in an agressive mood. All this doubt about Jim being the father etc has put me on edge!!

I need some help!

you know me man, i'm the biggest preacher of over thinking things, reading too far into things and NOT DROPPING THINGS lol
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: matahari on May 02, 2007, 12:40:37 AM
Then next I want my advice with a drink :D
What would you like, meet me at the Blackrock Pub
Title: Re: Juliet: "I hate you."
Post by: ILoveLost on May 02, 2007, 08:15:29 PM
Your theory is still wrong. Juliet may help the losties but for only her own personal gain. She is a self serving killer, just like the rest of the others.


with all due respect juggy, no ones theory can be wrong per say until proven, and the jury is still out on all this :)


with that being said, my thought is juliet is still a good soul deep down, i dont think she will kill any losties, unless her life is threatened, and i dont think she will do anything ben says because he is her ticket off the island.....its obvious that her little bob dylan skit was true, based on the little "i hate you ben", so if he is her ONLY ticket off the island why kill him??

now i think the reason she is playing both sides of the fence is to gain the losties trust, she cant just up and go against the others without having a definite trust with the losties, simply because she cant be on her own

i think she is helping Sun (and possibly Kate) because she truly wants to see her work actually work......i cant imagine her watching a pregnant woman die without trying to help no matter who it is, its not in her nature

so yes, she has done what she's needed to in order to survive, but to say she is a heartless cold killer is a bit much, i mean some losties have killed people themselves but it was out of survival

Your post has a lot of really good points that I can spin in my direction too...lol (everything with lost has at least two ways things could go)

As for your question why kill him?? I assume you're talking about her playing that movie for Jack while he was captured. I still think Ben told her to do that, this way Jack would trust her. Ben knows an aweful lot about each of the losties and I think he knew enough about Jack's character to take that bet.

if ben told her to do this then why put her on a semi-trial.....remember whent he "sheriff" came in and asked jack about what juliet said???

i dont think this would have happened if ben told juliet to do it

Your reaction is exactly why...Ben is calculating and I wouldn't put it passed him to think every little detail through to achieve what ever it is he wants. Personally I think he would go that far.