Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 3 => Episode 3x17 => Topic started by: kkehoe5 on April 19, 2007, 12:27:36 AM

Title: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: kkehoe5 on April 19, 2007, 12:27:36 AM
Am I the only one here who was hoping that Charlie was being killed off finaly? The only thing he is good for now, is to watch Desmond save his sorry butt. Now that we know Des has flashes, its time to off Charlie!
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Gar O Mac on April 19, 2007, 12:29:46 AM
Come on how can you not love Charlie?
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: HanginWithMrEko on April 19, 2007, 12:31:01 AM
so filled with anger... leave charlie alone.. he's my homeboy
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: ozman776 on April 19, 2007, 12:32:12 AM
and whilst this will annoy the charlie hobbit fans im left wandering what his role is worth anymore.... besides playing step daddy to aaron it seems like a serious waste of time even seeing charlies character anymore.... ever since his main man eko bit the bullet charlie has been left as a filler and someone to go on treks with... no substance left in his character except is this the epi he dies??? nope ok well i still have him in my dead pool so ive got 5 episodes left...crossing fingers....

Hopefully his demise is as gastly as dez's preminision was tonight!
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: kkehoe5 on April 19, 2007, 12:35:44 AM
Took the words right out of my mouth. The only thing keeping him alive from a writers point of view is:

Tune in to find out "Will he die this week????"
And
Someone to kill others in defence of Aaron and Claire
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: ozman776 on April 19, 2007, 12:43:31 AM
and its sad because i really liked the strung out paranoid charlie we all grew to love in season 1....

someone get that boy a crack pipe!
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: lostatsea on April 19, 2007, 01:01:30 AM
When this epi opened with Charlie holding hands with Aaron, my first thought was 'Is Charlie the one that is supose to raise Aaron?'

thats what I thought of


Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Maxor127 on April 19, 2007, 01:17:39 AM
Before, I didn't really care whether Charlie lived or died, but this episode made me glad it didn't happen and I hope it doesn't happen.  This episode made me sympathize with him.  I don't have anything against the character or actor, and I hope they build on his character now instead of killing him off.  The only problem with Charlie was the whole Aaron/Claire thing.  It was just annoying and it would've been annoying no matter which character was in the "I love Claire and Aaron" role. 
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: ozman776 on April 19, 2007, 01:26:30 AM
its the whole what have you done for me lately... i just havent had that feeling about charlie being any better than nikki-paulo characters anymore.... whats he good for?? he does nothing around camp except play step daddy... and i understand that the whole trip to otherville this season has left a lot of our characters in limbo, but atleast lock and dez have had episodes featuring and furthering there story... i feel sorry that charlie isnt more than he should be.. and if i was a true charlie fan id be up in arms about it! but we dont?
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on April 19, 2007, 01:45:23 AM
I love charlie he is one of the original group of losties who went around exploring.

Characters dont have to really have a story to be on the show, I mean if you say his story is gone then what the heck is Hurley good for other than comic relief for us viewers.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Maxor127 on April 19, 2007, 01:45:30 AM
You could say the same thing about Hurley, Jin, Sun, Bernard, Rose, Claire, Aaron, Vincent.  I guess you could argue Hurley is the comic relief and he keeps the mood light and is always looking to make the island seem more like home and less like a prison and find some enjoyment out of living there.  Jin and Sun really don't do anything except sit in the background.  Rose and Bernard are so worthless people have been wondering if they even exist on the island anymore.  Claire sits around and takes care of Aaron in the background except for her token moments.

I can see Charlie's value as a character as representing the underdog.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: ozman776 on April 19, 2007, 01:51:34 AM
my point exactly... why have charlies character play such important parts and then get to sit in the background like he has since eko left us (R.I.P Mr.Eko).. as for the other characters youve mentioned well we have known since day one and beyond that they were simply there to be background extras... and even thou we havent seen anything new out of sayid, atleast hes a part of doing SOMETHING!... again id be up in arms if locke was demoted to a caregiver or a comic relief but he isnt and im still rapped up in his character... im saying that all of the injected soap opera crap has in fact taken away a LOT of possible minutes and now hours of character time better spent elsewhere!!
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on April 19, 2007, 01:53:22 AM
Charlie's story as of now is awesome it ties together with Des which is a very good character and it gives Des a purpose of being with the losties.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: lostatsea on April 19, 2007, 01:53:50 AM
Charlie went exploring with the intent to find his DRUGS
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Maxor127 on April 19, 2007, 01:56:07 AM
I think the past few episodes with Charlie involving Desmond have redeemed his character.  Maybe we'll discover Charlie is already dead and really died when he was hung by Ethan but the powers of the island have made him stuck between life and death.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: ozman776 on April 19, 2007, 01:56:45 AM
he was helping eko build eko brothers church.. he went on exploration treks with locke... he went after ethan and KILLEd him... now he is simply a person we see in pan shots and is claires whipped roomate... im done... abc kill charlie or give him back his nuts!!!!!
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Pepsi-Maxx on April 19, 2007, 02:06:31 AM
im as big a charlie fan as the next but ur right the boy needs his dignity back and when he dies cus im certain hes dead before the finale, i hope they kill him with some dignity like he does something heroic to save someone else, like in the episode 'the moth' which is still my fav episode when he saves jack. Thats how i want charlie to go out!
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: ozman776 on April 19, 2007, 02:08:58 AM
agree 1001%
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on April 19, 2007, 02:21:05 AM
I agree with someone earlier in this thread that said maybe Charlie is there to take care of aaron.

I think the person that is actually going to die is not Charlie but Claire.

They have us thinking he is gonna die all this time but Claire will take his spot some how and will be save his life.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Maxor127 on April 19, 2007, 02:37:36 AM
I think it will be either Sun or Desmond.  I don't think Charlie will die either.  It just seems like a big setup for some sort of twist.  Claire would be my third choice for dying.  Or they will kill Charlie, only it will be completely unexpected kind of like it was today where you think he's safe and then all of a sudden a freak accident kills him.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: lost_soul12 on April 19, 2007, 03:49:03 AM
If charlie was suppost to die then who would be the third person on the ground helping jin, hurly catching the perechutiest? Think about it wacth desmons prevision their is three people catching the perechutiest but desmon still saw charlie die so i think he was ment to see that so he would save charlie? and didnt thr monk in his flash back say somthing about decesions he would make can change something? what do u all think,,,,,
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: razzle-dazzle on April 19, 2007, 08:18:53 AM
I think Desmond is in a Catch 22. So the parachutist had a copy of the book, but I think it was just one big explanation.

I think the Island is calling for Desmond to sacrifice Charlie and if he does, Desmond will be rewarded. Desmond, however doesn't share Locke's faith in the Island and won't offer up Charlie. Desmond keeps saving Charlie and the events that Desmond sees in his flashbacks don't come out exactly the way they would have.

I think it Desmond was sure that if Charlie died that Penny would be the parachutist.
He either was wrong in interpretting his visions or she would have been there.
So instead of Penny surviving the crash, that parachutist did.

Just a theory, but I think the whole Superman vs Flash was aimed at Locke vs Desmond.
Which one knows what to do? Which is interpretting the Island correctly.

Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: lostfromthestart on April 19, 2007, 09:07:31 AM
To begin with, it didn't look like the three of them did a particularly good job of catching her.  Didn't she still hit the ground at the bottom of the parachute?
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: MaxsDad on April 19, 2007, 09:29:47 AM
I think Desmond is in a Catch 22. So the parachutist had a copy of the book, but I think it was just one big explanation.

I think the Island is calling for Desmond to sacrifice Charlie and if he does, Desmond will be rewarded. Desmond, however doesn't share Locke's faith in the Island and won't offer up Charlie. Desmond keeps saving Charlie and the events that Desmond sees in his flashbacks don't come out exactly the way they would have.

I think it Desmond was sure that if Charlie died that Penny would be the parachutist.
He either was wrong in interpretting his visions or she would have been there.
So instead of Penny surviving the crash, that parachutist did.

Just a theory, but I think the whole Superman vs Flash was aimed at Locke vs Desmond.
Which one knows what to do? Which is interpretting the Island correctly.


I personally dont think the island is calling for Charlies Sacrifice, why is Desmond being shown all these accidents that Charlie will be in and he didnt see Nikki and Paulo being buried alive, or the Helicopter crashing with possibly more crew on board. I think he is being shown Charlies death to protect Charlie! The future is what you make of it! Plus I find it interesting that Des's Vision of future could only come about if he got his little merry band of adventures together and went looking for the new arrival. Otherwise this future event would have never came about.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: MaxsDad on April 19, 2007, 09:34:27 AM
Good observation Lost soul, I think Desmond is suppose to protect Charlie! And no they did a lousy job of catching the woman! :D
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on April 19, 2007, 10:10:28 AM
So if Des did allow the sacrifice of Charlie would the new Lostie be Penny? I think that by Des saving Charlie's life it changed the out come of who the parachutist would be. It's kind of strange to have someone else crash with a picture of Des. Yes, they might have been on a search and rescue mission for Des and need a photo of him. But you would think they would use a different photo to I.D. Des.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: MaxsDad on April 19, 2007, 10:27:36 AM
So if Des did allow the sacrifice of Charlie would the new Lostie be Penny? I think that by Des saving Charlie's life it changed the out come of who the parachutist would be. It's kind of strange to have someone else crash with a picture of Des. Yes, they might have been on a search and rescue mission for Des and need a photo of him. But you would think they would use a different photo to I.D. Des.
Maybe that is the only photo of Desmond Penny had. And I doubt if Charlies Death would have changed the outcome. other than there being less visions and less Hobbits running around the island. ;)
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: LostGirlDeb on April 19, 2007, 10:48:34 AM
I'm kinda torn on this one...
One the one hand I think the whole conversation with the monk
about sacrifice and Des not understanding the meaning of "sacrifice"
was significant if in fact he was meant to sacrifice Charlie.

On the other hand I'm not sure it would have changed anything either because up until that point the stage has already been set
I mean the helicopter had already crashed and the parachuter had already dropped so if something would change because of Des saving Charlie that was already set to begin with too.
OK that was hard to follow even for me writing it (sorry)

Bottom line is...what Des thinks...and now he is convinced that he probably should have not saved Charlie because he still didn't get what he wanted and Charlie will end up dead eventually anyway so what is the point of saving him over and over and over again.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on April 19, 2007, 02:01:33 PM
Alright this is now really bugging me with all the Isac and Abraham talk.
Is charlie a possible saint or desciple?
 - flashes of his mother, Claire, and Arron on beach looking holy
 - charlie's mother says, " you are going to save us."
there is to much for me to think that Charlie is somehow tied into all this somehow.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on April 19, 2007, 02:05:01 PM
No he is a man who was suppsoe to die in the hatch but didn't so has altered the timeline.once he dies, time lime restored.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on April 19, 2007, 02:11:15 PM
Charlie was suppose to diein the hatch implosion,now the time line is all askew and whomever is controlling the island,Smokey,dharma ben,Widmore has Des seeing flashes of chalrie's death -how many times would Chalrie die- it's an awful lot- proving that once Charlie does and Des does not interfere the time line of theisland will be restored.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Ailiu on April 19, 2007, 04:33:38 PM
Alright this is now really bugging me with all the Isac and Abraham talk.
Is charlie a possible saint or desciple?
 - flashes of his mother, Claire, and Arron on beach looking holy
 - charlie's mother says, " you are going to save us."
there is to much for me to think that Charlie is somehow tied into all this somehow.
Maybe he's supposed to be a marytr?  Having a death like that would certainly make him more important in the show. ;)

Not that I want him to die...  I like the humour he adds to the show.  He's no different from the other characters who are not featured as much anymore. 

Before, I didn't really care whether Charlie lived or died, but this episode made me glad it didn't happen and I hope it doesn't happen.  This episode made me sympathize with him.  I don't have anything against the character or actor, and I hope they build on his character now instead of killing him off. 
I agree; the epsiode made me feel sorry for Charlie.  He was completely unaware of Des's vision and was a bit relunct to go in the first place.  I didn't want to see him die.

And Des seemed so willing to let Charlie die too... just because he thought he would be seeing Penny again or that she could rescue them or whatever.  I have to say the writers built up the tension well in this episode.  I didn't think Des had what it takes to actually kill someone (or let someone die) though; he seemed too freaked out when he accidently killed Kelvin.

Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Hudson on April 19, 2007, 04:43:54 PM
Just a couple comments, hope I don't offend.

One of the common driving factors of this thread are "If a character isn't useful anymore, they should die?". Wow, thats harsh!  Can't a person step onto the sideline for a while?

Secondly, I've noticed things are often Cyclical in this show. Like, claire's abduction was HUGE earlier on, and then no one even thought about it in the show (Like, when Jack was in the glass walled room / cage, why didn't he press Ben for that peice of information when they chatted, I sure would have!) and now, lo and behold, claires abduction has become central to the story once more, hand in hand with the new "fertility problem" on the Island.

My opionion is just because charlie is not apparently that key to the show right now, doesn't mean that things won't cycle and he won't be very important again in the future, and even if he doesn't, I'd gladly let him stay around : )

Just my two bits.  Peace.

D
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Ailiu on April 19, 2007, 04:53:43 PM
Just a couple comments, hope I don't offend.

One of the common driving factors of this thread are "If a character isn't useful anymore, they should die?". Wow, thats harsh!  Can't a person step onto the sideline for a while?
I agree with you on that.  Vincet is hardly seen anymore-- he didn't appear this season at all until like Feburary.  Does that mean he should die too? 
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: zappa1 on April 19, 2007, 05:23:37 PM
maybe he is supposed to sacrifice what he thinks will be good for him(penny) to save Charlie.
Charlie will do something important before he dies and it. That something may never have gotten done if Des had let him die by the lightning strike.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: FrostyLosty on April 19, 2007, 06:01:04 PM
I was reading an article and it got me thinking.
I believe that the island is trying to save Charlie, rather than killing him, giving the flashbacks to Desmond.
Besides, prehaps he should of died when Ethan got hold of him.
Surely this should mean Charlie will have a big role within the storyline plot in the near future, or he would be buried in the beach with all the other bodies.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Ailiu on April 19, 2007, 06:16:03 PM
I don't think the Island cares one way or the other.  I doubt the Island demands a sacrifice at any rate;surely by now it has had enough deaths to satisfy itself for many seasons.

Thinking about it that way makes me think of those old jokes about primitive tribes always needing to sacrifice virgins to appease their gods and land. :D  Maybe Charlie's spared in that regard then. ;P

Anyways more seriously, yes I do think Charlie will have a big role in upcoming epsiodes.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on April 19, 2007, 06:55:48 PM
Just a couple comments, hope I don't offend.

One of the common driving factors of this thread are "If a character isn't useful anymore, they should die?". Wow, thats harsh!  Can't a person step onto the sideline for a while?
I agree with you on that.  Vincet is hardly seen anymore-- he didn't appear this season at all until like Feburary.  Does that mean he should die too? 

Vincent died in the plain crash and what we see of him now is Smokie in vincents body.  (sorry I have to post my theory whenever i get a chance to.)
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Ailiu on April 19, 2007, 07:26:00 PM
Just a couple comments, hope I don't offend.

One of the common driving factors of this thread are "If a character isn't useful anymore, they should die?". Wow, thats harsh!  Can't a person step onto the sideline for a while?
I agree with you on that.  Vincet is hardly seen anymore-- he didn't appear this season at all until like Feburary.  Does that mean he should die too? 

Vincent died in the plain crash and what we see of him now is Smokie in vincents body.  (sorry I have to post my theory whenever i get a chance to.)

Lol, okay then why doesn't Smokie use Vincent's body much anymore? :D 
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Lost-N-Detroit on April 19, 2007, 07:36:23 PM
Here is a question to your question?
When Charlie had his flashback there was a scene where Charlie's mother says, " You are going to save all of us."
I think that "YES" Charlie will be a huge part of the LOST storyline
And "NO" the island doen't need a sacrifice.
Is it maybe possible that Charlie could be actually a saint?
This just brings me back to the visions on the beach of Charlie's mother, Claire, and Arron.
Puzzled even more.........
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Gilgar on April 19, 2007, 09:50:00 PM
The whole thing about charlie seeing claire and his mother dressed like saints or the virgin mary or whatever had to do with his "test" from the island, which was to get rid of the statues with the heroin inside. He just mis-interpreted it as Aaron having to be baptized. I don't think it has anything to do with charlie being a saint
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: nikarro on April 20, 2007, 12:04:35 AM
When this epi opened with Charlie holding hands with Aaron, my first thought was 'Is Charlie the one that is supose to raise Aaron?'

thats what I thought of





This was a neat idea,
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: DIZZYBECKSTER on April 20, 2007, 09:26:25 AM
I think Charlie's role on the Island is a bit like Doctor Who's assistants.. they are there to ask questions, to be the one that has things done to them, the one to be saved each episode. He will be killed off eventually, I think we all can see that - but in the meantime he will serve as the vessel through whom the story will progress, deepen and unfold, and will allow other characters to act out their stories with his help.


Cripes that sounded profound.... still think he shoud die.... and soon!!

;)
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Gar O Mac on April 20, 2007, 02:24:41 PM
I don't think the Island cares one way or the other.  I doubt the Island demands a sacrifice at any rate;surely by now it has had enough deaths to satisfy itself for many seasons.

Thinking about it that way makes me think of those old jokes about primitive tribes always needing to sacrifice virgins to appease their gods and land. :D  Maybe Charlie's spared in that regard then. ;P

Anyways more seriously, yes I do think Charlie will have a big role in upcoming epsiodes.

Remember: Boone was the sacrifice that the island demaned. maybe it want's another one with Charlie.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: JBRam on April 20, 2007, 04:42:12 PM
The Island is getting greedy then. It just had its previous sacrifice (Eko)
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Ladybug on April 21, 2007, 11:04:56 AM
Here is a question to your question?
When Charlie had his flashback there was a scene where Charlie's mother says, " You are going to save all of us."
I think that "YES" Charlie will be a huge part of the LOST storyline
And "NO" the island doen't need a sacrifice.
Is it maybe possible that Charlie could be actually a saint?
This just brings me back to the visions on the beach of Charlie's mother, Claire, and Arron.
Puzzled even more.........

okay, here are my 2 cents whether you want them or not.

i think des feels like if he would have let charlie die that would have been penny in the chute.  i don't believe it, but i'm sure he probably does.  his mission was to get to penny.  nothing more, nothing less.

after reading the above statement by lost-n-detroit i had an epiphany (i love that word).  what IF charlie IS supposed to save them all?  i know, "ladybug, that's not a new theory!"  keep on reading........  what if we aren't getting the whole picture/story behind desmond's "visions."  maybe he has seen that CHARLIE is the one to save them/the one to get them off the island!!  THAT'S why he keeps saving charlie, so that he can eventually get off the island. 

i've had a problem with desmond saving charlie for "the greater good" from the beginning.  he isn't the type to save someone just to save them, he is very self-absorbed.  what i stated above gives REASON to desmond saving charlie.

that's my story and i'm sticking to it.
Title: Re: Was Charlie suppose to die?
Post by: Wishbone on April 25, 2007, 03:37:06 PM
I don't think Charlie is supposed to die. I think it is a test for Desmond and so far I would say he is passing it with flying colours. If Charlies death is inevitable though then Dessie is destined to fail at some point...although I'm hoping he doesn't!