Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 3 => Episode 3x15 => Topic started by: thwgt on April 05, 2007, 01:09:46 AM

Title: Sawyer making nice
Post by: thwgt on April 05, 2007, 01:09:46 AM
I get the point of what Hurley was doing, but here's what bothers me.  SAWYER IS A CON MAN.  Now, I know he's projecting this curmudgeonly, antisocial, "I'm only looking out for me, but I'll begrudgingly show affection for others because despite myself I want to be part of the team" demeanor, and maybe that's his true nature.  But, SAWYER IS A CON MAN.  What is it that con men do?  Oh, right, they get people to like and trust them.  But that's a huge chore for Sawyer, getting people to like and trust him.  He just doesn't have a clue how to do that.  Oh, wait, I forgot SAWYER IS A CON MAN. 

Not saying there's anything significant about this.  Just really bugged me.  Although it was endearing watching Sawyer be all awkward around Claire and really wanting to be part of the group.  He's not such a bad guy after all...DOH!!! HAVE I BEEN CONNED? :)
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: JMart on April 05, 2007, 01:11:20 AM
what do you want us to say w/ this thread?
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: thwgt on April 05, 2007, 01:16:12 AM
Don't know.  What do you want to say?  Just pointing out an inconsistency in a show that's built around analyzing every minute detail; or at least pointing it out on a site that's built around analyzing every minute detail of said show.
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: dcnole on April 05, 2007, 01:17:30 AM
I get the point of what Hurley was doing, but here's what bothers me.  SAWYER IS A CON MAN.  Now, I know he's projecting this curmudgeonly, antisocial, "I'm only looking out for me, but I'll begrudgingly show affection for others because despite myself I want to be part of the team" demeanor, and maybe that's his true nature.  But, SAWYER IS A CON MAN.  What is it that con men do?  Oh, right, they get people to like and trust them.  But that's a huge chore for Sawyer, getting people to like and trust him.  He just doesn't have a clue how to do that.  Oh, wait, I forgot SAWYER IS A CON MAN. 

Not saying there's anything significant about this.  Just really bugged me.  Although it was endearing watching Sawyer be all awkward around Claire and really wanting to be part of the group.  He's not such a bad guy after all...DOH!!! HAVE I BEEN CONNED? :)
I think the point of that was that Sawyer lacked motivation. When he has his eye on the prize ($$$$$) he is smooth as silk. But simple human interactions are tough for him when he has no cash incentive.  He's way out of his element in that regard.  Especially since they know he's pretty much a sleaze. Hard to con people who don't trust you and have seen your true colors. 

Beyond that, I really wouldn't waste time being bothered by this. The point of the little storyline was obvious, not very important, and fun to watch. 
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: LouE68 on April 05, 2007, 01:23:35 AM
Sawyer was also conned by Hurley in the ping-pong game.
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: JMart on April 05, 2007, 01:24:55 AM
everyone has some characteristics that are VERY VERY opposite their personalies/lives while offf of the island.






plus, sawyer said that he is living for himself (lord of the flies). so any person would find it weird/awkward to make nice with people whom you've done nothing to help..
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: thwgt on April 05, 2007, 01:28:43 AM
I get the point of what Hurley was doing, but here's what bothers me.  SAWYER IS A CON MAN.  Now, I know he's projecting this curmudgeonly, antisocial, "I'm only looking out for me, but I'll begrudgingly show affection for others because despite myself I want to be part of the team" demeanor, and maybe that's his true nature.  But, SAWYER IS A CON MAN.  What is it that con men do?  Oh, right, they get people to like and trust them.  But that's a huge chore for Sawyer, getting people to like and trust him.  He just doesn't have a clue how to do that.  Oh, wait, I forgot SAWYER IS A CON MAN. 

Not saying there's anything significant about this.  Just really bugged me.  Although it was endearing watching Sawyer be all awkward around Claire and really wanting to be part of the group.  He's not such a bad guy after all...DOH!!! HAVE I BEEN CONNED? :)
I think the point of that was that Sawyer lacked motivation. When he has his eye on the prize ($$$$$) he is smooth as silk. But simple human interactions are tough for him when he has no cash incentive.  He's way out of his element in that regard.  Especially since they know he's pretty much a sleaze. Hard to con people who don't trust you and have seen your true colors. 

Beyond that, I really wouldn't waste time being bothered by this. The point of the little storyline was obvious, not very important, and fun to watch. 
Fair enough, and good points.  Not trying to make a huge issue of this, just bugged me.  But to address your points:  he's got a better incentive than cash (see the lack of fishing skills, so he goes hungry); just because people have seen you at your worst doesn't mean you can't turn on the charm and win them over - he was doing everything but a Porky Pig stutter when talking to Claire.

I guess my point is in the last sentence of my original post.  This was meant to make the audience like Sawyer; I guess I just look too deep sometimes. (Mods, feel free to lock this thread)
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: puff6962 on April 05, 2007, 01:41:21 AM
I think what Hurley did was GENIUS!  I once owned a car dealership and I once heard a salesman remark that "nobody get's sold like a salesman."  How true.

But, bigger picture, Hurley was pulling a Louis De Palma / Jim.  There was once this episode of Taxi where Jim comes into a lot of money and gives three people 1000 dollars to give away to someone.  Louis (Danny DeVito) is just a prick of a little guy, and he's probably going to keep the money, but he finally decides to give it away to Jeff (his assistant).  Now, initially, Jeff doesn't trust the gesture and Loui is offended.  Later, he accepts it, tears are shed, and Louis feels like a million dollars.  Jim (Christopher Plummer)then peers out from behind a wall and says, "Feels pretty good boss, huh?"  The O. Henry of the story was that the gift was given to all who had a hand in the venture.  Jim got to see Loui step outside himself, Louis got to see the appreciation of Jeff (and was able to feel, briefly, what it was like to be human), and Jeff got a thousand bucks.

On the Island, Hurley didn't con Sawyer.  He gave him a gift.  Sawyer was shown what his world would be like if he would just drop his cynicism and selfish ways.  Hopefully, he will not forget this gift.
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: matahari on April 05, 2007, 02:25:16 AM
That bothered me too. How did sawyer not know he was being conned?
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on April 05, 2007, 02:44:32 AM
I think his ego is to big to even consider someone trying to con him. 
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on April 05, 2007, 02:52:29 AM
I think Sawyer felt that conning was a wasted cause on the island.  He even tossed diamonds away.  He has shed some of his old ideals and is still adjusting to that.
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: mindsparkle on April 05, 2007, 03:22:43 AM
For the first time in Sawyers life he can't run away from the relationships, his actions nor the consequences...  I think he is finally learning that applying his "conning" skills in a more appropriate and compassionate manner he will gain more than any of his simple cash-cons. He finally has to pay the piper for his actions and Hurley, bless his heart, found a way to give Sawyer an opportunity to save face and learn some of the harder life's lessons... which will ultimately make Sawyer a better person.  Hurley is like a saint... ever notice how compassionate and humanistic he is... amazing!
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: Maxor127 on April 05, 2007, 09:24:10 AM
The way I look at it, the people on the island know the kind of person Sawyer is.  You can't con someone you've been living with for months and suddenly try to make nice when you've gone out of your way to make people think you're a bad guy and build up that kind of reputation.  It's a lot harder to con someone you know than it is to con a stranger.  With a stranger, you can invent yourself anyway you like.  Yeah he's a con man, but I don't think he has the stomach or the charisma to con his own friends and family like Locke's dad did.  I don't see anything out of character or inconsistent in the writing with how his character acted.
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: WhatThe on April 05, 2007, 12:05:59 PM
Sawyer was also conned by Hurley in the ping-pong game.

He wasn't conned by Hurley, he just was cocky...
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: puff6962 on April 05, 2007, 12:27:49 PM
Sawyer didn't throw the diamonds away....those were the rhinestones on nikki's swimsuit from the expose shoot.  Sawyer may have released one of the other's to go find the woman he loves (bad writing), but he ain't going to part with money.
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: WhatThe on April 05, 2007, 12:29:43 PM
Sawyer didn't throw the diamonds away....those were the rhinestones on nikki's swimsuit from the expose shoot.  Sawyer may have released one of the other's to go find the woman he loves (bad writing), but he ain't going to part with money.

Sawyer said last nigh that money means nothing on the island, the politics of being "nice" holds far more value.
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: Ladybug on April 05, 2007, 02:07:40 PM
For the first time in Sawyers life he can't run away from the relationships, his actions nor the consequences...  I think he is finally learning that applying his "conning" skills in a more appropriate and compassionate manner he will gain more than any of his simple cash-cons. He finally has to pay the piper for his actions and Hurley, bless his heart, found a way to give Sawyer an opportunity to save face and learn some of the harder life's lessons... which will ultimately make Sawyer a better person.  Hurley is like a saint... ever notice how compassionate and humanistic he is... amazing!
mindsparkle, you've been reading my mind today.  yes, hurley is like a saint.  he is awesome.
Title: Re: Sawyer making nice
Post by: thwgt on April 05, 2007, 02:15:38 PM
For the first time in Sawyers life he can't run away from the relationships, his actions nor the consequences...  I think he is finally learning that applying his "conning" skills in a more appropriate and compassionate manner he will gain more than any of his simple cash-cons. He finally has to pay the piper for his actions and Hurley, bless his heart, found a way to give Sawyer an opportunity to save face and learn some of the harder life's lessons... which will ultimately make Sawyer a better person.  Hurley is like a saint... ever notice how compassionate and humanistic he is... amazing!
mindsparkle, you've been reading my mind today.  yes, hurley is like a saint.  he is awesome.
I can agree with that.  I think that's the "deeper meaning" we're supposed to take away from this.  As for my OP, as soon as I re-read it I realized I'd answered my own question.  Sawyer's "aw shucks" awkwardness was a device to make us, out here in TVLand, like him.  If he had turned on the charm and been real smooth, we would all have known he was bs'ing.  It's sort of the opposite of having the villain kill a dog or smack a child around when the writers want to remove all audience sympathy for him.  Anyway...can't believe this thread went to 2 pages.  :-\