Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 3 => Episode 3x13 => Topic started by: HanginWithMrEko on March 22, 2007, 12:12:08 AM

Title: Magic Box
Post by: HanginWithMrEko on March 22, 2007, 12:12:08 AM
does this magic box explain how some of the island's crazy anomolies come about?
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: unitus on March 22, 2007, 12:13:00 AM
is the magic box even real, or just something ben said to get to Locke, once again?
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: scrod on March 22, 2007, 12:14:19 AM
Unless Ben can pull a disappeared con man out his ass, I say the box is some cool stuff.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: lostatsea on March 22, 2007, 12:14:25 AM
Can they think of those that have died on the island and bring them back to life?

Is that how Jack's dad showed up on the island?
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: unitus on March 22, 2007, 12:15:44 AM
well, if Locke's dad is the real sawyer, and they have ways to find out minute details about our loveable losties...perhaps they arranged to bring him to the island in the last 70 days, to someday use as a bartarting chip with either Locke or Sawyer.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: unitus on March 22, 2007, 12:16:24 AM
i just think a "magic box that can make your dreams come true" is a pretty weak plot-fixer-upper. i'd expect more.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: jugdish on March 22, 2007, 12:18:10 AM
I think the magic box is made up. They are playing John again. Ben said earlier, "Bring me the man from Tallahassee" He is one of the others. It  is another con. I believe him, widmore, pak, christian are all involved.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: dcnole on March 22, 2007, 12:18:34 AM
i just think a "magic box that can make your dreams come true" is a pretty weak plot-fixer-upper. i'd expect more.
You are assuming this box literally exists, which seems quite presumptuous.  It may be a symbolic or metaphoric way to describe something else. It may just be a flat out lie. 
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: unitus on March 22, 2007, 12:21:22 AM
i wasn't assuming there was a literal "box"...but thanks for that.

i guess, though...

something needs to explain Yemi...Kate's horse, Dave, etc....

is all of this taking place on the holodeck?
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: jugdish on March 22, 2007, 12:23:03 AM
I think you are really looking to far out there on this. It is going to be much more straightforward than "magic"
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: lostatsea on March 22, 2007, 12:24:01 AM
There is a giant box, Ben said there are two mice in a giant wheel powering the island with electricity....

j/k
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: scrod on March 22, 2007, 12:24:37 AM
Do you think this concept will lose people if it is not adequately explained?
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: scrod on March 22, 2007, 12:25:37 AM
I think the magic box is made up. They are playing John again. Ben said earlier, "Bring me the man from Tallahassee" He is one of the others. It  is another con. I believe him, widmore, pak, christian are all involved.
Kinda would help along the whole 'Christian faked his death' thing a bit, wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Ladybug on March 22, 2007, 12:26:31 AM
i don't think there is a real physical box.  i think it is just an expression ben made.  (like the 2 mice on wheels powering the joint)  i don't quite understand it, but i don't think there is a real box.  maybe it's a plane?  or a boat?  or another form of transportation that they call "the box."  or maybe that's what they are calling the "room" cooper was in.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: FeelLikeANut on March 22, 2007, 12:26:58 AM
As disappointed as I've been in this show, I need to say that I definitely don't think the magic box was a plot fixer-upper. I think the writers have been planning this for a very long time.

Back towards the beginning of season 2, they told us that the book "The Third Policeman" was very important to the story of LOST. The idea of a box that will give you whatever you desire is practically copy-pasted from "The Third Policeman."
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: lostatsea on March 22, 2007, 12:27:02 AM
it will be explained 3 years from now. (in our time frame)

however, it will only be 100 days since when the plane crashed
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: DaBills on March 22, 2007, 12:27:48 AM
Yemi, dave and christian, not touched...dead...only seen...conjured images from the box.

The horse...real?

The Man from Tally...like the Jug said...another con
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: jugdish on March 22, 2007, 12:28:23 AM
Scrod, this is how Christian is going to come back and freak out JAck.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: DaBills on March 22, 2007, 12:29:15 AM
Look back....I have been saying Christian alive for a while...nice to see others may think so
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: LouE68 on March 22, 2007, 12:29:33 AM
I just know, I'm more confused than ever now!!!!
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: JMart on March 22, 2007, 12:32:03 AM
LOL. wowwww.. i want to see new theories people.. get to typing!
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on March 22, 2007, 12:33:16 AM
I dont know if anyone remembers anything about what I said last week about how they should show Christian being alive.  But they showed Lockes dad being alive in the same exact way.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: versed4every1 on March 22, 2007, 12:37:58 AM
Maybe "the box" is just a metaphor for whatever controls the smokie.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Nancy Drew on March 22, 2007, 12:47:47 AM
I think it very peculiar that all these disfunctional, crooked dads all drink the same booze.  Does anyone remember the background of that booze and who made it?  I think Widmore told Desmond the story about it in his office.  That could tie in, in a big way with who "Him" is, I think.  "Him" is who made the booze.  Nancy Drew is on the case!
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on March 22, 2007, 12:50:40 AM
Maybe it is a certain kind of boose and the only people who can obtain it are people who are part of the "big picture" so to speak, which then leads to be that someone on the plain had it and hwo was that someone.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Maxor127 on March 22, 2007, 12:58:51 AM
Why do people think Christian is alive?  He's dead.  It would ruin the show if he was alive.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: thwgt on March 22, 2007, 01:03:11 AM
I think the magic box is made up. They are playing John again. Ben said earlier, "Bring me the man from Tallahassee" He is one of the others. It  is another con. I believe him, widmore, pak, christian are all involved.
Playing John again?  Are you suggesting that Locke is vulnerable to being conned?  Especially when he thinks he knows what's going on?  Hmmm...interesting theory. ;)
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: General Zod on March 22, 2007, 01:25:12 AM
I personally think that it would be stupid if Jack's dad is alive.  They better have a solution that makes sense if he is alive.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on March 22, 2007, 01:29:10 AM
I personally think that it would be stupid if Jack's dad is alive.  They better have a solution that makes sense if he is alive.

go to par avion there are threads in there that explain why he is alive.

I really wanna know why you think it would be stupid for him to be alive.  It would prove a major theory of how everyone on the plain was planned to be there for a reason.  there is a "big picture" so to speak.
Title: WHAT IS THE MAGIC BOX?
Post by: puff6962 on March 22, 2007, 01:30:25 AM
It is my belief that the island has afforded the Others the ability to traverse quantum realities.  Please read the Unifying Theory of Lost I compiled from previous postings.

With such ability, the Other's could discern the survivors past lives although little time has transpired on the island.  Additionally, the Others could be privy to any circumstance or piece of history provided they didn't alter the quantum trail that leads them to the island and the magic box.  Thus, Mikail speaks of Nadia Komenich as the greatest athlete of all time from personal experience.

Play with the possibilites, but it makes sense that the reason the writers have been so persistent in showing us the flawed lives of the survivors is to provide the reason why they cannot be allowed to have access to such a phenomenon.  Inevitably, Kate would travel back along the quantum thread that led her to the island and save her childhood sweetheart.  Such a move would alter the island, and the Others, within the real time quantum thread/bubble that they inhabit.

It is possible to yank things from the realities experienced.  Hence, the books....art....the man from tallahassee.
Title: Re: WHAT IS THE MAGIC BOX?
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on March 22, 2007, 01:33:39 AM
I read your theory and it is well thought out but it is a hard one to believe since it is so hard to understand and the main things that have happened have turned out to be very simple.  Making your theory kind of unlikely
Title: Re: WHAT IS THE MAGIC BOX?
Post by: Zenobia on March 22, 2007, 01:40:02 AM
Yeah -  this one is a bit too hard to understand

...but anything is possible on Lost!!
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: General Zod on March 22, 2007, 01:42:47 AM

I really wanna know why you think it would be stupid for him to be alive.  It would prove a major theory of how everyone on the plain was planned to be there for a reason.  there is a "big picture" so to speak.

Maybe.....after reading the threads..there are some good theories.  But like I said, they better have a good solution, and if faking his death is the solution, then so be it.  I'm just going off of seeing Jack identify his father's body.  Time will tell....that is why we love watching this show.  I don't mean to offend anybody.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Cardacct on March 22, 2007, 01:46:46 AM
I think it would be stupid if Jack's dad were alive, too.

But I think it's sort of stupid that Locke's dad showed up.  They'd better do a good job of explaining this one!
Title: Re: WHAT IS THE MAGIC BOX?
Post by: General Zod on March 22, 2007, 01:47:24 AM
But we still don't know how The Others know everything about the losties.  How they got their info...I mean Ben knew everything about Locke...did he get the info from his Dad? 
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on March 22, 2007, 01:47:31 AM
no offense taken, everyone is entitled to there own opinion.  You have to remember that jack was not looking at his dad through a Doctors eyes, he was looking at his dad as a son.

The line about the wallet

The story about the girl waking up when she was about to have an obtopsy

The way he is such a big part in Jacks flashbacks.

Is seen talking to Sawyer(James Ford),  Talks to Ana Lucia, and is Claires father as well he is connected in such a big way that he cant be dead.

Just some things that hint to him being alive
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on March 22, 2007, 01:47:59 AM
Everything happens for a reason.
Title: Re: WHAT IS THE MAGIC BOX?
Post by: hefalumps on March 22, 2007, 01:55:27 AM
It's hard to say exactly how they got their info, but if Ethan got his hands on that crew manifest, he easily could've reported back everyone's names to the Flame station. Mikhail starts communicating with their parent organization in the outside world, who may be able to dig this kind of information up, and that's how they know so much about Jack, Locke, and everyone else. How else could they determine who "the good ones" are? Mikhail seemed to know everyone's history when he made his comments before his demise in Par Avion - probably because their dossiers passed through his station. Just a theory.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: lostatsea on March 22, 2007, 02:22:47 AM
Do you think Jack could view his dad's body and not notice he was alive? He is a Doctor for crying out loud! Jack should be able to id a dead body, especially his Dad's dead body.
Title: Re: WHAT IS THE MAGIC BOX?
Post by: DaddyBeast on March 22, 2007, 02:45:31 AM
Or, Ben made up the idea of the magic box a long time ago and was planning to use it to con Locke...
Ben already knows that Locke would want to see his father brought to justice somehow, and if Ben convinces Locke to ask the box for his father, Ben shows that the box works.
(The Box Works - isn't that John's previous place of employment?)
Title: What is the magic box>????
Post by: lost_soul12 on March 22, 2007, 03:37:43 AM
we all heard ben tell locke about a magic box where anything can come out of it. is this box a portole or a gatway ? was that room where lockes dad was kept the magic box. can some one give me answers im loseing my mind aaaaawwwwww im about to go to abc head quarters and steal and watch the rest of the episodes just to get it over with lol
Title: Re: What is the magic box>????
Post by: lost_soul12 on March 22, 2007, 03:39:13 AM
sorry i didnt see the other topic that said the same thing my bad guys
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Maxor127 on March 22, 2007, 03:41:45 AM
I don't think the line about the wallet means anything except maybe to uncover how his dad really died in a later episode or it could've just been a throwaway line just to show Jack's distress.  He's a big part in flashbacks but so are a lot of characters.  For him to be alive and the mastermind behind the whole thing and fake his own death would be a jump the shark moment.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: BRBob on March 22, 2007, 03:43:55 AM
Do you think Jack could view his dad's body and not notice he was alive? He is a Doctor for crying out loud! Jack should be able to id a dead body, especially his Dad's dead body.

We've beat this dead horse for about a while. I agree with your statement, but a doctor said that the girl drowned and was dead. Eko went to investigate the miracle. He felt there was no miracle that the doctor was mistaken. If Locke can be healed, maybe a newly dead Christian can be healed. Who knows.

If there really is a magic box, we don't know the limits of it. I think that Ben never tells the whole truth. I don't trust him. Magic box or Magic Submarine that can grab Locke's father?
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: uofapiglet on March 22, 2007, 04:22:28 AM
Man, I have to think about this one... the whole "magic box" thing is confusing so I'll have to rewatch a couple clips and post my thoughts later... I don't even know where to begin... interesting topic though...
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Blitz Wing on March 22, 2007, 05:01:31 AM
There has been a reference to a "Box" by the others before. Didn't the others stick Walt into a Box? The episode when Ms Clues tells Michael to bring the Jack, Kate, Swayer, Hurley to them.....they let Michael see Walt. I remember Ms Clues threaten to stick Walt back in the "Box" again. And wasn't there a Darma Box Logo on some fake doors?

Possible link between the Box & the Numbers?
I was reviewing Episde 1x18 "Numbers" (To see if the falling guy in Hurley's Flashback was locke......it's not)......Hurley was talking to Lenard in the Mental Institute asking him where he got the numbers from.....Lenard freaks out and says "You've Open the Box! You shouldn't have used the numbers!". Of course Lenard could have been referring to Pandora's Box....but who knows, the numbers were on the hatch.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on March 22, 2007, 05:14:22 AM
I personally believe "the box" is in reference to Pandora's Box, an alliteration, if you will.  There have been many events on the Island and off that have opened "the box" so to speak.  The same as "opening a new can of worms."

Is Christian still alive?  Yep.  Particularly since DrDrunk's constant theme and message has been one of hope, and of not losing hope--something our Losties seem to all have done at one time or another.

I don't judge Benry as harshly as I once did.  I don't think he's quite as awful as I once did (for now.)  Benry's compassion for Alex shows his humanistic traits at the most basic level.  I think Juliette is evil.

But the story to follow for sure will be Desmond's...

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: LouE68 on March 22, 2007, 07:08:46 AM
I think it would be stupid if Jack's dad were alive, too.

But I think it's sort of stupid that Locke's dad showed up.  They'd better do a good job of explaining this one!
LUCY!!! Ju got sum splainin to do!!!!


But wasnt Ben's explainations of the "magic box" just an analogy to describe the island mystery?

Besides we know Ben is the master of the con, pssst..it's not a box it's a magic 8-ball.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: WhatThe on March 22, 2007, 07:41:01 AM
I don't think the line about the wallet means anything except maybe to uncover how his dad really died in a later episode or it could've just been a throwaway line just to show Jack's distress.  He's a big part in flashbacks but so are a lot of characters.  For him to be alive and the mastermind behind the whole thing and fake his own death would be a jump the shark moment.

Couldn't agree more...and not to mention that Locke's dad faked HIS death in a flashback episode as well. Having every other character fake his or her own death, to me, would point to lazy writing and definitely lower the show a notch or two in my eyes. Having Jack's dad show up standing knee-deep in the ocean while wearing a suit, then disappearing...only to say "he's really alive, people" would lower the show in my eyes. Having the police find Christian apparently laying dead in an alley, and having the doctor claim Christian died of a heart attack from overdrinking after doing tests on his supposed dead body...only to later say "He's alive, folks!" would diminish the show in my eyes. Having Christian evaporate into thin air right in front of Jack's eyes, only to come back later and say "He's alive afterall" would diminish the show in my eyes.

Christian better be dead, dammit lol.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: LostGirlDeb on March 22, 2007, 11:03:42 AM
I agree with Des8
Pandora's box is more like it.

Christian is absolutely alive and one of the head honcho's
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: char1 on March 22, 2007, 11:08:32 AM
I think it very peculiar that all these disfunctional, crooked dads all drink the same booze.  Does anyone remember the background of that booze and who made it?  I think Widmore told Desmond the story about it in his office.  That could tie in, in a big way with who "Him" is, I think.  "Him" is who made the booze.  Nancy Drew is on the case!

I think it definitely is a tie in that they all have it.  I was looking at it like maybe it was a gift from someone to all of them, which would tie everyone who's had it in together. 
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Schmoe on March 22, 2007, 12:56:30 PM
Didn't Ben say "imagine" a box.  He did not say there was a box.  He was just putting it into terms that John would understand.

I can't wait for the scientific explaination of this.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: JF on March 22, 2007, 01:03:28 PM
an alliteration, if you will.
???  Maybe if it were "Bandora's Box"?
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 22, 2007, 01:13:09 PM
Think about the big box as a means to enter another quantum reality besides the physical reality that got you to the island.  The only way to travel to the latter is the sub. 

The producers have said that there is no "time travel" but chose their words very delicately here citing that time may "move differently" on the island.

I presented the unifying theory of lost with help of the wikipedia info, very complex, but it really is not.  Deja Vu, the unexplained interaction of particles, the miracles of life may be due to the influence of similar quantum realities with our own.  I nickname this quantum averaging, but to the onlooker, it would look like a betrayal of David Hume's constancy principle leading to the unexplained, the bizarre, and the unpredictable.....ie the island.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: jugdish on March 22, 2007, 01:15:59 PM
The scientific explanation is that there is no box. Cooper is an other, he is part of this. They are conning John once again. It is part of the plan.

Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: msdoran on March 22, 2007, 01:27:31 PM
i wasn't assuming there was a literal "box"...but thanks for that.

i guess, though...

something needs to explain Yemi...Kate's horse, Dave, etc....

is all of this taking place on the holodeck?

Please keep in mind that those were all apparitions that appeared in the jungle, and were most likely related to Smokey.  Locke's dad was flesh and blood, tied up, sitting on a chair and looked terrified. I believe the island can manifest things, but only certain things, at certain times, for certain people, and that is why they are still there, studying it, and why Ben told Locke that he was a very important person.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: rdt2323 on March 22, 2007, 02:25:53 PM
It's not "Bandora's Box" nor is it "Pandora's Box its actually "Bendora's Box".
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: sissi on March 22, 2007, 02:29:00 PM
I'm kind of thinking that the box is just a simple way of explaining things.Or is it a litural explantion with the numbers being the combination? I've been tossing around the idea that there is some sort of time travel going on that ties in to the magnetic force of the island. I also think that there are people that are doing the traveling such as Libby and that is why she is in so many places. I also think that somehow time was manipulated and that is why Locke can walk because someone intervened and course corrected Lockes fate buy preventing the event of his dad from pushing him from the window. Thus he walks because he was never paralized. I know this theory is not well put together,but I would enjoy everyones input.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: LostGirlDeb on March 22, 2007, 02:45:47 PM
I'm kind of thinking that the box is just a simple way of explaining things.Or is it a litural explantion with the numbers being the combination? I've been tossing around the idea that there is some sort of time travel going on that ties in to the magnetic force of the island. I also think that there are people that are doing the traveling such as Libby and that is why she is in so many places. I also think that somehow time was manipulated and that is why Locke can walk because someone intervened and course corrected Lockes fate buy preventing the event of his dad from pushing him from the window. Thus he walks because he was never paralized. I know this theory is not well put together,but I would enjoy everyones input.
There are similar theories floating around in the threads for your reading pleasure.
You have to cruise around and read them because at this moment I couldn't tell you where they are LOL
The latest one posted by puff6962 l will try to find it for you.

Here it is http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,4030.msg212220.html#msg212220  Looks as though the topic was merged or something, the begining has a strange looking format but I think you can get the jist of it
Also there are a few more  threads about "time"-probably in the "flashes before your eyes" thread that you might find interesting to read   
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Creflo on March 22, 2007, 03:18:29 PM
There's a reason why so many people (the Others) are willing to leave the real world and come to this place of hardship and sacrifice.  They can't all be running for the law or receiving magical healing like Locke.  Most don't look or act like scientists or researchers of any kind.  They don't strike me as deluded cultists either.


There's something keeping these folks committed to the island besides the imagined freedom to leave via the sub.  This would be where "the box" comes in.

btw, thanks Blitz Wing for bringing up the line that Klugh said to Michael about him not wanting to go back in the box.  At the time, I thought it must be something like the room where Karl was recieving the Ludovico Technique.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: sissi on March 22, 2007, 03:19:10 PM
Thanks Lostgirl. I have tried to read some of these - I just can't seem to keep up. I guess I read slower then people post.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 22, 2007, 04:43:42 PM
The island has the effect of blurring time, reality, magnetism, location, and etc.

I think that Ben is facinated by Locke.

There obviously must be some mechanism on the island to manipulates it's effects.  Ben seeks to learn how Locke has done it without use of the Other's techniques.

That is why the Other's were studying Walt, why Ben wants to learn from Locke.....
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: psychoag98 on March 22, 2007, 06:21:22 PM
Didn't Ben say "imagine" a box.  He did not say there was a box.  He was just putting it into terms that John would understand.

I can't wait for the scientific explaination of this.

That's what I thought.  It was a metaphor.  If he would have actually asked Locke what would be in this imaginary magic box, Locke would have assuredly answered "my father".  Ben knew this, and actually did have his father in a box.  The box/cell didn't PRODUCE or TIME/SPACE WARP his father, Ben was just phrasing his question metaphorically.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 22, 2007, 06:37:24 PM
Realize the the producers have stated that there would be no time travel on the show.  That is why the Unifying Theory blah blah blah that I pieced together was based upon the Hugh Everett premise of "many worlds" underlying the wierdness in quantum mechanics.  It's on both the theory threads....and doesn't rely upon time travel.  In fact, the only stipulation under the theory is that you can't be someone who has a strong motivation to go back and change the past that got you to the island.  This would alter the lives of the Others in their quantum thread/bubble and that must be forbidden.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: psychoag98 on March 22, 2007, 06:46:46 PM
Did anyone else have Justin Timberlake spring to mind when they saw Locke's dad?


Hey!  It's a d*ck in a box!
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Chefpyro on March 22, 2007, 07:00:05 PM
Try to keep an open mind about this one. A box, and anything in your head pops out. Kate saw a horse from her past. Jack saw his father. Sayid saw a cat from his past. Walt saw a polar bear ( well,everyone saw the bear, but it was from a comic book that belonged to Hurley ). Hurley saw Dave ( but nobody else did ). Shannon saw Walt after his abduction ( but nobody else did ). Countless others. Maybe, just maybe, there  is a magic box. Or a portal or gateway to let your past be seen, even if only by one person.
<------Pyro[move]
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Psych0666 on March 22, 2007, 09:30:31 PM
Try to keep an open mind about this one. A box, and anything in your head pops out. Kate saw a horse from her past. Jack saw his father. Sayid saw a cat from his past. Walt saw a polar bear ( well,everyone saw the bear, but it was from a comic book that belonged to Hurley ). Hurley saw Dave ( but nobody else did ). Shannon saw Walt after his abduction ( but nobody else did ). Countless others. Maybe, just maybe, there  is a magic box. Or a portal or gateway to let your past be seen, even if only by one person.
<------Pyro[move]
Just a quick wee thought, didn't Shannon see Walt twice, once by herself and once with Sayid just before Ana Lucia shot her?
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: scrod on March 22, 2007, 09:51:23 PM
Try to keep an open mind about this one. A box, and anything in your head pops out. Kate saw a horse from her past. Jack saw his father. Sayid saw a cat from his past. Walt saw a polar bear ( well,everyone saw the bear, but it was from a comic book that belonged to Hurley ). Hurley saw Dave ( but nobody else did ). Shannon saw Walt after his abduction ( but nobody else did ). Countless others. Maybe, just maybe, there  is a magic box. Or a portal or gateway to let your past be seen, even if only by one person.
<------Pyro[move]
Just a quick wee thought, didn't Shannon see Walt twice, once by herself and once with Sayid just before Ana Lucia shot her?
Yes.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Psych0666 on March 22, 2007, 09:56:30 PM
Try to keep an open mind about this one. A box, and anything in your head pops out. Kate saw a horse from her past. Jack saw his father. Sayid saw a cat from his past. Walt saw a polar bear ( well,everyone saw the bear, but it was from a comic book that belonged to Hurley ). Hurley saw Dave ( but nobody else did ). Shannon saw Walt after his abduction ( but nobody else did ). Countless others. Maybe, just maybe, there  is a magic box. Or a portal or gateway to let your past be seen, even if only by one person.
<------Pyro[move]
Just a quick wee thought, didn't Shannon see Walt twice, once by herself and once with Sayid just before Ana Lucia shot her?
Yes.

Thought so. Chers :)
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Chefpyro on March 22, 2007, 10:26:17 PM
Sayid didn't see Walt.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: scrod on March 22, 2007, 10:42:09 PM
Sayid didn't see Walt.
From the Sledgeweb timeline:
Shannon and Sayid see Walt [2x6]
Sayid tells Kate that he saw Walt [2x9]


EDIT: no problem psycho, you had a remarkable recollection of the events.  I just kinda thought that's what happened, so I looked it up.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Psych0666 on March 22, 2007, 10:44:03 PM
Sayid didn't see Walt.

Are you sure cos I'm pretty sure I remember  Shannon saying something like 'Do you see that/him' whatever and I'm pretty sure I remember Sayid mentioning it in a later episode, thats why I thought he'd seen him, which got me thinkin that smokie doesn't just appear to one person at a time all the time if you know what I mean, dammit I'll have to check that now, or can someone else check it cos I dont have season 2 anymore, it was season 2 wasn't it that that happened, wait ye had to have been, Shannon didn't die till 2 and thats when she saw him, in fact it's just the bit before she got shot cos it was raining and she fell or something then Sayid went to help her up and I'm sure I remember them both seeing it and some kind of question answer thing before she ran off and got herself shot..... ahhh I rambled sorry. I may be wrong about this but I don't think I am. Any way enough from me.... stop typing dammit lol


Edit - Cheers Scrod for clearing that up like :D typed so long you said that before my rambling thoughts had finished themselves off :D
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: jugdish on March 22, 2007, 11:10:20 PM
Right before Shannon was shot, Sayid told her he saw Walt.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Maxor127 on March 23, 2007, 01:01:56 AM
Do you think Jack could view his dad's body and not notice he was alive? He is a Doctor for crying out loud! Jack should be able to id a dead body, especially his Dad's dead body.

We've beat this dead horse for about a while. I agree with your statement, but a doctor said that the girl drowned and was dead. Eko went to investigate the miracle. He felt there was no miracle that the doctor was mistaken. If Locke can be healed, maybe a newly dead Christian can be healed. Who knows.

If there really is a magic box, we don't know the limits of it. I think that Ben never tells the whole truth. I don't trust him. Magic box or Magic Submarine that can grab Locke's father?

Then no one on the island would die... and everyone who have already died on the island would be alive.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Maxor127 on March 23, 2007, 01:10:45 AM
Okay, after reading more posts I have to also say this about Christian being alive:

They would have already done an autopsy on Christian's body so even if he did look dead but was not really dead, he's dead now because they've cut him open to determine the cause of death.  Unless you don't think they'd do an autopsy on the mysterious death of a foreigner who is an upper class U.S. citizen.  Or they would have at least cut into his body, and seen that he was bleeding.  So he's dead, unless you want to believe he has a clone or a twin or that the coroner was an accomplice.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: ape on March 23, 2007, 08:26:05 AM
the coroner was an accomplice.

yeah, why not?..
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: PurpleLostPrincess on March 23, 2007, 12:23:01 PM
I'm puzzled as to why they would show Locke his Dad, knowing that he has had such a strong influence on his life in recent years but not show Jack his Dad when he has been in such a similar situation (well, kind of). I know he saw him on the island ages ago but they could have used that in a similar way when trying to convince him to help Benry. Maybe thats what was going on when we heard his voice on the thingymajig in the cell that Jack was in? Or maybe they already have shown him to him and thats part of why Jack is playing along in such a calm way?  
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: LostGirlDeb on March 23, 2007, 12:34:48 PM
Okay, after reading more posts I have to also say this about Christian being alive:

They would have already done an autopsy on Christian's body so even if he did look dead but was not really dead, he's dead now because they've cut him open to determine the cause of death.  Unless you don't think they'd do an autopsy on the mysterious death of a foreigner who is an upper class U.S. citizen.  Or they would have at least cut into his body, and seen that he was bleeding.  So he's dead, unless you want to believe he has a clone or a twin or that the coroner was an accomplice.
I don't think there was an autopsy
I think the whole thing was planned/arranged
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: LostGirlDeb on March 23, 2007, 12:36:21 PM
I'm puzzled as to why they would show Locke his Dad, knowing that he has had such a strong influence on his life in recent years but not show Jack his Dad when he has been in such a similar situation (well, kind of). I know he saw him on the island ages ago but they could have used that in a similar way when trying to convince him to help Benry. Maybe thats what was going on when we heard his voice on the thingymajig in the cell that Jack was in? Or maybe they already have shown him to him and thats part of why Jack is playing along in such a calm way?  
My guess is that it isn't the right time yet for Jack
((((TY))))  :-*
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: jugdish on March 23, 2007, 01:21:47 PM
I'm puzzled as to why they would show Locke his Dad, knowing that he has had such a strong influence on his life in recent years but not show Jack his Dad when he has been in such a similar situation (well, kind of). I know he saw him on the island ages ago but they could have used that in a similar way when trying to convince him to help Benry. Maybe thats what was going on when we heard his voice on the thingymajig in the cell that Jack was in? Or maybe they already have shown him to him and thats part of why Jack is playing along in such a calm way?  
My guess is that it isn't the right time yet for Jack
((((TY))))  :-*

They have gotten Jack to do what they want with out having to use his father as leverage.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: LostGirlDeb on March 23, 2007, 01:26:19 PM
I'm puzzled as to why they would show Locke his Dad, knowing that he has had such a strong influence on his life in recent years but not show Jack his Dad when he has been in such a similar situation (well, kind of). I know he saw him on the island ages ago but they could have used that in a similar way when trying to convince him to help Benry. Maybe thats what was going on when we heard his voice on the thingymajig in the cell that Jack was in? Or maybe they already have shown him to him and thats part of why Jack is playing along in such a calm way?  
My guess is that it isn't the right time yet for Jack
((((TY))))  :-*

They have gotten Jack to do what they want with out having to use his father as leverage.
I agree!  And it isn't time for him to face his "demons" yet
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 23, 2007, 02:17:11 PM
There is an old science fiction periodical, Analog, that once carried a story "E for Effort."  A couple of novel scientists stumbled upon an effect that would allow them to watch the past in real time.  They could play with it to go back to Alexander the Great, Lincoln, ect.  They used the images to make movies and hired actor voices to fill in dialogue. 

The producer scientists won a number of awards but then began to understand the ramifications of their work.  The made a last movie that showed the massive profiteering that went on behind closed doors in WWII america.  They additionally recognized that their invention could be dialed to the very immediate past and could therefore be used as the ultimate spy satellite.  The US government intervenes, but not before the scientists provide all of the governments of the world the plans for this device. 

Before their plan of equal access can be implemented, however, panic leads to conflict, and conflict leads to nuclear holocost.

The scientists had created a quantum window able to look across various realities.  The Others have such a device and have used it to learn the pasts of the survivors.  The difference may be that the others are also able to insert themselves in these realities...ie ring lady.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: sissi on March 23, 2007, 03:41:05 PM
I keep playing around with a theory along the same lines as what you wrote Puff6962.I think the island has something that is allowing people to manipulate time. I think that the others may be the good guys trying to correct what the Darma group started to do. Not the original Darma - but rather a corrupt group how dicovered this and started to use it for their own purposes. You have explained the quantum window and various realities much better then I can though
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: thwgt on March 23, 2007, 05:52:26 PM
There is an old science fiction periodical, Analog, that once carried a story "E for Effort."  A couple of novel scientists stumbled upon an effect that would allow them to watch the past in real time.  They could play with it to go back to Alexander the Great, Lincoln, ect.  They used the images to make movies and hired actor voices to fill in dialogue. 

The producer scientists won a number of awards but then began to understand the ramifications of their work.  The made a last movie that showed the massive profiteering that went on behind closed doors in WWII america.  They additionally recognized that their invention could be dialed to the very immediate past and could therefore be used as the ultimate spy satellite.  The US government intervenes, but not before the scientists provide all of the governments of the world the plans for this device. 

Before their plan of equal access can be implemented, however, panic leads to conflict, and conflict leads to nuclear holocost.

The scientists had created a quantum window able to look across various realities.  The Others have such a device and have used it to learn the pasts of the survivors.  The difference may be that the others are also able to insert themselves in these realities...ie ring lady.
Puff, I reallyt like your theory but tend to lean with the "it's too complicated" crowd.  Can you dumb it down so that it could be explained by a character in a 3 minute sound bite?

Another question:  I get what you're saying about looking *across* quantum realities, but how does that allow viewing and/or travel *back*?
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: thwgt on March 23, 2007, 06:25:13 PM
I keep playing around with a theory along the same lines as what you wrote Puff6962.I think the island has something that is allowing people to manipulate time. I think that the others may be the good guys trying to correct what the Darma group started to do. Not the original Darma - but rather a corrupt group how dicovered this and started to use it for their own purposes. You have explained the quantum window and various realities much better then I can though
I like this.  Seems to me that Kelvin & Radzinski were not Dharma, but rather post-Dharma.  If the original Dharma folks had sent them, why the need to make the blast door map?  I think they were working for someone else who was trying to figure out just what Dharma was up to.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on March 23, 2007, 07:00:57 PM
I believe that Kelvin and partner were dharma, the original.  If they were part of the Others, you would think that there would be a shift change regularly, like the one our survivors set up.  The need for the blast door map could be explained because after the hostile takeover, perhaps records and maps were lost, the people stationed in the swan would still need some physical account of the island.  I just dont see the Others taking over dharma, slaughtering members of the swan, and setting up their own staff there.  It would seem more logical that they made the swan members live in fear to continue the work of button pushing.  To keep using them.  Also, Ben mentioned the submarine needed to be there so that everyone knew they could leave when they needed to.  This contradicts Kelvin's actions with Desmond's boat.  If there was another way off the island, he would use that if he was post-dharma, or, he would make requests to have another job.  Radzinski wouldn't have killed himself years ago if he was part of the hostiles and knew he could leave the island.  Or so I think...
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on March 23, 2007, 07:07:37 PM
Again I think that the only reason why ben says that is the only way off the island is because the boats that we have seen that the others have are not big enought to make it in the open ocean.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: DirtyMaggieMae on March 23, 2007, 07:23:31 PM
I tend to believe that Yemi, Kate's horse, Jack's dad, and so on are all manifestaions of the smoke, and not produced from 'the box' itself.  I think that the box signifies a person of utmost influence and power.  Someone to call (Mittlewerk?) when in need.  I believe that Locke's dad is real and not (oh, made up isn't the right word..) Look at his situation, bound, gagged, and beaten.  All the other flashback folk we find on the island are disturbingly calm, collected, and harbingers of danger, more like traps than people.  Locke's father is clearly disturbed the the situation.  How he got there, I'm going to say, is somthing like this...  The other's have extensive records of each survivor's past, medical, personal, professional.  The others also like to hit you where it hurts.  His father being Locke's weakness.  Realizing this weeks ago, the other's could have put in a phone call to 'the box' and found daddy  for a situation such as this.  He must have been on the island before the hatch exploded, seeing as after that communications went down.  The arms of the others reach far.  I find it hard to grasp that the box could be anything but an eccentric, influential, financialy able person.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: soccerman on March 24, 2007, 12:52:57 AM
Doesn't add too much to this thread but when Kate saw the horse with Sawyer right after Sawyer channeled her dad, Sawyer asked "Do you know that horse?"  this shows that two people saw a Smokie appearance.

If Smokie is making these illusions.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: thwgt on March 24, 2007, 01:40:51 AM
I believe that Kelvin and partner were dharma, the original.  If they were part of the Others, you would think that there would be a shift change regularly, like the one our survivors set up.  The need for the blast door map could be explained because after the hostile takeover, perhaps records and maps were lost, the people stationed in the swan would still need some physical account of the island.  I just dont see the Others taking over dharma, slaughtering members of the swan, and setting up their own staff there.  It would seem more logical that they made the swan members live in fear to continue the work of button pushing.  To keep using them.  Also, Ben mentioned the submarine needed to be there so that everyone knew they could leave when they needed to.  This contradicts Kelvin's actions with Desmond's boat.  If there was another way off the island, he would use that if he was post-dharma, or, he would make requests to have another job.  Radzinski wouldn't have killed himself years ago if he was part of the hostiles and knew he could leave the island.  Or so I think...
Not one of the Others, but not Dharma either.  Certainly not part of the original Dharma bunch because Kelvin was in Iraq in '91.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 24, 2007, 01:46:38 AM
I just watched the Last Mimsy with my kids and if they got that, then Losties could be explained a quantum window or the idea of multiple quantum realities.

Most of all, I agree that you can go nuts thinking of all the ramifications of such a device or phenomenon, but you need something so broad to explain people waking from the dead, visions, the man from talahassee, knowledge of the survivors, etc. 
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 25, 2007, 11:52:10 AM
We have seen smokie bond with locke, who has a special communion with the island.  We have seen smokie kill echo, who felt guilt about his brother and was thus killed by his representation.

The Black Box is a contained smokie.... cheating, as locke put it.

Even the contained black box is a dangerous thing.... hence, you can't be too afraid, too angry, weak..... therefore, the list.

But, how does the others have such insight into the personalities of the losties?

They seemingly know not only what happened but why the survivors have done the things they did.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 25, 2007, 02:24:51 PM
perhaps the magic box has been able to pull out key individuals in each of the survivor's lives.....hence the others know so much personal info about each.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 26, 2007, 11:20:15 PM
The map that was visible in the hatch displayed a central area, function uncertain.  Stations were placed in a perimeter about the this center. 

Whether it be to focus and control the magnetism of the island or for housing the magic box, here you will find the mystery of the Others and their abilities.
s
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: scrod on March 26, 2007, 11:24:11 PM
The map that was visible in the hatch displayed a central area, function uncertain.  Stations were placed in a perimeter about the this center. 

Whether it be to focus and control the magnetism of the island or for housing the magic box, here you will find the mystery of the Others and their abilities.
s
Wasn't the Pearl in the center, under the ?
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Nancy Drew on March 26, 2007, 11:27:13 PM
I don't believe the Pearl was the ? in the center of the blastdoor map.  I think we will find the ? is where all the tunnels lead to underground.  Maybe there was some kind of control room there.  That is just my opinion, though.  It seems they would have had to travel further if they were going to the middle of the island.  Locke and Boone used to go there and come back each day, so it couldn't be that far away from the Swan.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: MichaelAtTheBeach on March 27, 2007, 04:06:42 AM
Deus ex Machina
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Chefpyro on March 27, 2007, 05:40:01 PM
I think Boone is still hallucinating from that stuff Locke rubbed on his head.




<------Pyro[move]
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Chefpyro on March 27, 2007, 05:59:46 PM
The box, I believe, is a "careful what you wish for" kinda thing. It's the devil.

<------Pyro[move]
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 28, 2007, 12:29:11 AM
The box may provide a physical reality for those who enter it, thus explaining what these people do with their time and why their willing to die for the thing in addition to living in motel 6 lodgings.  I believe that the box is concentrated but its effects can escape without the user....Jack's dad, kate's horse, walt, whispers, revengeful boar, polar bear, locke's legs, rose's cancer, kim's baby, desmond's gift, and so on.....but it must be special for the physical presence to remain.  What freaks Ben out is that this old snowbird from florida showed up with no particular connection to the person using the box and his physical presence remains.  This must be atypical, otherwise the others would have a lot of people hanging around and nothing to do with them except feed them to the chickens (see dark meat thread).  So, Locke's special communion with the island has bypassed the method used by the others to access the qualities of the island...the so named magic box....and it shocks them.  This may have been what happened to Rousseau's companions when they "got sick."  Did she describe them as physically sick or did she just shoot them all?  What may have happened is that she was the only one unaffected.  Big flashback coming there. 

Anyway, getting off point.  Oh ya, the box.  The box allows you to experience or remember any reality....as with Desmond....the only rule is that you can't alter the quantum thread that led you to the island in the first place.  That would set up a paradox and would effect the happenings on the island, ergo effecting the lives of the others and changing the course of events unpredictably.  Again, as Desmond found, trying to shift quantum outcomes is more difficult that one thinks as realities are straddled alongside one another based upon outcomes.  You can try to win her back, but you'll get smacked in the head by a crickett stick or you'll die in a taxi cab. 

Only a fool is enslaved by time and space lies at the heart of the box question....what would be required of one who was not?  He or she could not be flawed and could be trusted to enjoy the benefits of the box while not changing others' or their own destiny.  Every flashback has been constructed to show us the flaws of the survivors (except Rose and Bernard who have recently disappeared from the show....overbudget).  To be allowed full access to the box, the kind of courage that was shown by the lady in Sajid's recent flashback is required.  One must take a searching and fearless moral invetory and come face to face with the demon in all of us.  The most pure are obviously the children, hence they were on the list and taken early.  I can't explain why some from the tail and none from the main section (except Walt) were sought.  Better defenses by those aft probably. 

Anyway, now we've found out that there is a wizard.  It's time to see whose behind the curtain!
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: scrod on March 28, 2007, 12:40:01 AM
Puff, I'm sure that was totally genius, but I will have to attack it earlier in the day, after some strong coffee.  I was totally lost in the second paragraph.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Ladybug on March 28, 2007, 10:35:46 AM
i was lost in the first sentence.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 28, 2007, 11:20:13 AM
blah blah blah...

a.  we've already seen some of the effects of the magic box. one reason the other's may not want the losties close may be that the effects of the box become more pronounced with proximity.

b.  the box does provide a reality for the person using it, but there are rules. you can't alter the fate that drew you to the island (or you don't want to).  hence, the need to be without flaw in order to be on the list.

c.  physical realities are not retained after the user leaves.  ergo, Locke's dad showing up as a physical reality is bizarre and makes locke very special.

d.  the universe tends to be self correcting.  if the box allows one to revisit or experience quantum realities, one must accept that these are alligned and linked via outcome.  thus, desmond's frustration in the flashback.

e.  there is a wizard (box), but who is behind the curtain (the great man)
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Creflo on March 28, 2007, 03:59:17 PM
imo:

King Con "appeared" in the closet bound and gagged to further Ben's manipulation of Locke.  I don't believe he (talking about the original Sawyer) was wished into existence by Locke and the Magic Box.

I don't believe in the classic time travel paradox of not being able to alter the events leading up to your engaging the time machine.  Marty McFly's brother would not slowly vanish from the Polaroid.  If Desmond went back in time, the first time he takes a step away from the historic path he previously tread, he has set up an alternate chain of events and an alternate reality from the one he left.

If he went back and married Pen, there would be no sailboat, no meeting with Kelvin, no fight at the inlet and no crash of flight 815...IN THAT REALITY.

In the reality we've been watching, Kelvin would simply cease to exist once he turned the failsafe key and went back in time.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 28, 2007, 04:30:38 PM
if the ring lady is to be believed, in that reality kelvin would have still made it to the island and the results thereafter unpredictable (since Desmond's contribution would be withheld).  Why would Kelvin cease to exist? 

the ring lady states that if Desmond does not perform his fate then we all will die.

the irony to me is that Desmond has jumped back in time AFTER he has performed his function of turning the key and therefore the ring lady's argument is mute.  Desmond has simply decided to replay a portion of his life after performing the seemingly necessary portion on the island.  why he is not allowed to doesn't make sense unless, as the ring lady states, the universe has a certain inertia and fate altered still results in the same fate.  this would mean that, even if desmond had remained in his flashback, he would have still arrived at the island by a possibly different method and still would have turned the key.....and if that is the case, then why is the ring lady there in the first place. 

paradoxes exist in the very message that she delivered.  if the universe is self correcting, the why would she intervene?  i don't pretend to understand it, but i think it's facinating.  moreover, peering into a quantum reality is not time travel.  desmond's flashback was not the exact history he had lived.  did he previously awaken covered in red paint....doubtful.  so, prior to doing anything different....based upon knowledge of the past....the past was still different.  desmond was instead moved to a similar quantum thread by the implosion of the hatch where it is true that he has YET to turn the key. 

the key thing becomes what is the fate of this quantum reality.  now it will make sense for the ring lady to intervene because if desmond chooses not to turn the key.....then he has de facto chosen a quantum reality where the world will end.  if, on the other hand, he fulfills his ultimate fate, then he can still change the world and hope for a way of penny ultimately finding him.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: jdearmond on March 29, 2007, 04:25:56 AM
Aside from all of the quantum talk (read Michael Crichton's Timeline for a good story on that. The movie sucked), IF the box is real in whatever sense, would that give a little sympathy to the Others? Maybe they're just trying to protect it. And when people think they are in charge of something special, they can get a little "high and mighty" which may explain the Others' attitudes towards everyone.

On a side note, why is no one asking questions?! When Jack tells Kate he's going home, why doesn't she ask him why she can't go or what the heck is going on, or... ANYTHING!? It just seems that a lot of the characters have opportunities to figure more out about the island and they're more interested the soap operas going on.
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: 4.8.15.16.23.42 on March 29, 2007, 01:05:51 PM
The Magic Box it's Ben's refrigerator, watch how it's content change everytime someone open the door...

(http://i13.tinypic.com/30jqmpw.jpg)

(http://i7.tinypic.com/40l48et.jpg)

(http://i12.tinypic.com/29ori34.jpg)
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on March 30, 2007, 12:04:01 AM
I agree with Des8
Pandora's box is more like it.

Christian is absolutely alive and one of the head honcho's
Look at the big brain on DebDeb!!!  No wonder I love her so.... :)

DrDrunk is alive and out there

see you in another life, sistah
cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on March 30, 2007, 12:15:24 AM
In all seriousness, this was the best epi this season IMHO and it changed everything we thought we knew what was happening on the Island.

There are so many different scenarios to take place in the future (after the crash) from that one epi alone that they are too myriad to list here.

This will be the crux of the show, I think..or at least lead us initially down the inevitable finale path.  I've watched this epi at least 10 times and every time I watch it I see something I'd either missed that was important, or something that will ultimately change the path of every 815 survivor, or better yet--those who periled.

The Man From Tallahassee was a great epi, but Flashes Before Your Eyes was the singlemost largest contributor to giving the viewer a glimpse of where the story is leading us--including all characters we know of to date.  This includes Frank Duckett, Dave, Rose, Bernard, Nikki, Paolo, even The Marshall (gasp), our LOSTIES, TheOthers and TheOtherOthers we have yet to meet.

BTW, I stick with my initial conclusion that the Magic Box is an allusion to Pandora's Box, but my original theory from S1 and the Skinner Box still holds true.  Any old time Sledgelings out there remember that theory and if you do, do you think it fits in now more than ever?

I'm convinced of it.

see you in another life
cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 30, 2007, 01:00:31 AM
the magic box is a way of peering into other quantum realities.  it takes a lot of responsibility, though, cause you can certainly change the course of history if you so desire.  this was discussed by the ring lady and the conversation was meant to frame the reasons why the others are careful with their little device.

all of the bf skinner, purgatory, and alien theories just don't allow a believable and encompassing method of explaining the happenings.

here is what we know:

-the survivors lived when they should have died
-the survivors flashbacks all show mixed up lives
-the island's been associated with some wierd stuff....locke, horse, monstor, etc.
-it is possible to travel into a separate reality (Desmond)
-the universe tends to be self correcting
-there is a magic box

the latter 3 fit perfectly well with some quantum based explanation but flounder through any quasi-religious or alien theory.  bf skinner's work, or that of another scientist, may have been melded into the thinking of the others....but that's no explanation for anything.

the island began as some sort of utopia with healing properties and a special communion held with the inhabitants. dharma came along, realized the possibilites, and exploited the effects of the island.  they created the controls for the magic box, a way to intensify the island's characteristics, or both.

the magic box will have to be something cool, with a lot of scientist looking people running it, and with a lot of machines that go "ping!"
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: puff6962 on March 31, 2007, 07:11:12 PM
Behind Winged Victory is an expression heard on Locke's television which refers to fragments of work and thought combining into a compelling notion or hypothesis which, over a span of time, builds into a solid and magnificent work.

In a way, it may be a metaphor for the characters of the show. 

C S Lewis, when asked how he could come to find faith in such a time (1940's England) of evil, and how God could tolerate so much individual suffering, answered with the following metaphor.  He stated that God see's each man as a unrefined block of marble.  Over time, He begins his work shaping his creation.  Each blow is precise and shapeful, but each blow is painful.  However, the result...in the end...is a masterpiece.

Is this the purpose of the island?  Are the blows shown in the flashbacks a method of shaping individuals? 

I beg to ask the question, are the past experiences of the Losties real, or have they been implanted by the Other's?  In which case, a follow-up question, are the losties simply past members of the Others who got lost in the magic Box?
Title: Re: Magic Box
Post by: Chefpyro on April 25, 2007, 08:54:12 PM
i was wrong about Sayid seeing Walt. He did. sorry.
<------Pyro[move]