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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 3 => Episode 3x07 => Topic started by: JBRam on February 08, 2007, 12:34:01 AM

Title: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 08, 2007, 12:34:01 AM
Two things:

One: BEN IS ALEX'S DAD?!?!?!

I'm guessing that he just took her in and that she isn't really his biological child. What do you think?

Two: Juliet said that if Alex left that Ben would kill Carl. Any insight into this?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: HanginWithMrEko on February 08, 2007, 12:36:47 AM
I just assumed that he played Dad so that there wouldnt be any questions. Make it easier to keep in line.

Carl seems to be dating the wrong girl... he was in a cage, then in a brain washing room, and now if his gf leaves with him, he dies... time to start dating outside the hatch...
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 08, 2007, 12:39:39 AM
You know that won't work. Long distance relations never last ;D
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on February 08, 2007, 12:44:53 AM
This really didnt make alot of since to me because he got on the boat with Kate and Sawyer so if she went to then how would Ben kill him??????
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jillybean4u on February 08, 2007, 12:46:02 AM
Here's a question i have about Ben & Alex. And well Danielle, too.  Do we know what Danielle's husband's name was.  He was on the boat with her right?  Danielle said something about the sickness or whatever took them.  Did she actually have proof they died?  Could Ben be her husband?

Probably a long shot, but that's the first thing I thought of.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: HanginWithMrEko on February 08, 2007, 12:49:49 AM
well, she cut him out of the net w/ Sayid, so I doubt he's the husband...

I think she did the say the husand was w/ the science team and that she killed him... not positive on that, but for some reason that was what I remembered.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 08, 2007, 12:51:17 AM
I'm curious about that too, Jilly... I don't believe that's true, because I think that Ben's been on the island a very long time (if he's trustworthy, he's been on the island his whole life).

This really didnt make alot of since to me because he got on the boat with Kate and Sawyer so if she went to then how would Ben kill him??????
I bet that Ben could find Carl on the Island, no problem. Remember, Ben has the sailboat, so he can travel between the two islands easily. Plus they have the sub.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 08, 2007, 12:52:12 AM
well, she cut him out of the net w/ Sayid, so I doubt he's the husband...

I think she did the say the husand was w/ the science team and that she killed him... not positive on that, but for some reason that was what I remembered.
She didn't trust Ben at all. She said he was one of the OTHERs. Sounds like either a paranoid lady or an ex.... ;D
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: firemanandlostfan on February 08, 2007, 12:52:47 AM
I wondered that exact thing jillybean4u, makes me want to go back and watch that episode where she was talking about it.  My guess is he could have been her husband and Alex's real dad.  Hense the desire to take Rousseau's baby because it was his own flesh and blood.  

Think about this though, remember Rousseau put an arrow in Ben after he got out of the net.  There didnt seem to be a surprised look on either of their faces when they saw each other.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: musicotb on February 08, 2007, 12:53:02 AM
IF Ben is Alex's biological father, and Rousseau is her biological mother, then Ben & Rousseau were hooked up in some way about 16 years ago... definitely interesting...
...and if he adopted her... Ben as a father?  even more interesting...
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: musicotb on February 08, 2007, 12:55:51 AM
I wondered that exact thing jillybean4u, makes me want to go back and watch that episode where she was talking about it.  My guess is he could have been her husband and Alex's real dad.  Hense the desire to take Rousseau's baby because it was his own flesh and blood.  

Think about this though, remember Rousseau put an arrow in Ben after he got out of the net.  There didnt seem to be a surprised look on either of their faces when they saw each other.

How can we be sure that Rousseau hasn't been an Other the whole time, and stationed on the island to interact sincerely with our islanders?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: HanginWithMrEko on February 08, 2007, 12:56:07 AM
JB,

What kinda crazy girls have you dated?!  :P
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 08, 2007, 12:57:40 AM
I wondered that exact thing jillybean4u, makes me want to go back and watch that episode where she was talking about it.  My guess is he could have been her husband and Alex's real dad.  Hense the desire to take Rousseau's baby because it was his own flesh and blood. 

Think about this though, remember Rousseau put an arrow in Ben after he got out of the net.  There didnt seem to be a surprised look on either of their faces when they saw each other.
Ben had been hanging around in the net for a while before Sayid cut him down. Also, I'm pretty sure that Danielle and Ben would know who each other were. If not, then Ben would know who Danielle was, and Danielle would have not been too surprised to catch another person in her nets.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 08, 2007, 12:58:31 AM
JB,

What kinda crazy girls have you dated?!  :P
Just one ;D my fiancee.

I wondered that exact thing jillybean4u, makes me want to go back and watch that episode where she was talking about it.  My guess is he could have been her husband and Alex's real dad.  Hense the desire to take Rousseau's baby because it was his own flesh and blood. 

Think about this though, remember Rousseau put an arrow in Ben after he got out of the net.  There didnt seem to be a surprised look on either of their faces when they saw each other.

How can we be sure that Rousseau hasn't been an Other the whole time, and stationed on the island to interact sincerely with our islanders?
Do you call torturing Sayid and stealing Aaron "acting sincerely"?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: HanginWithMrEko on February 08, 2007, 12:59:45 AM
i doubt Danielle is an other... she had her hands on Aaron and was later tracked down... Aaron seemed to be all the Others wanted for a while, and could have had it.

Plus she helped Claire escape when she was pregnant... if they turned her into an Other, they would have to explain why she didnt just keep claire/aaron
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 08, 2007, 01:01:16 AM
i doubt Danielle is an other... she had her hands on Aaron and was later tracked down... Aaron seemed to be all the Others wanted for a while, and could have had it.

Plus she helped Claire escape when she was pregnant... if they turned her into an Other, they would have to explain why she didnt just keep claire/aaron
Alex has helped people out in situations as well. But I agree. Danielle is not affiliated with the OTHERs
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: firemanandlostfan on February 08, 2007, 01:24:30 AM
I agree but it really bothers me about Danielle she really is a square peg with no round hole.  What the heck is her role on this island?  why didnt the others take her she obviously was fertile at one point, why do they leave here alone and pester everyone else....
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 08, 2007, 01:26:34 AM
I'm betting that the reason they didn't take her was because she was somewhat loca.

Plus, what harm does a crazy chick do? If anyone DOES happen to land on their island, the crazy chick will either kill them, or convince them that there is no one else by telling them that there is.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: mindsparkle on February 08, 2007, 02:18:58 AM
Rousseau's husband's name was Robert and she told the story of killing him with great remorse... I think she really thought they were sick and her actions were necessary... after all, when Sayid pulled the gun on Rousseau and it misfired she said that's the same thing that happened with Robert, he didn't know she had taken the firing pin out either... so Robert was going to shoot her...

Anyway, back to the subject... I think Ben is the adoptive father and because he's the head honcho he gets to have the one and only baby on the island...

Another interesting thought, Rousseau seemed really surprised when Sayid said she had been there 16 years... I think people age differently on the island and it hasn't been 16 years at all... Alex is aging faster than she should, one reason Ben doesn't want her to have a boyfriend yet!  Something about the 26 year old with a 70ish womb leads me to think aging is different on the island...
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Pandora on February 08, 2007, 02:20:04 AM
It totally freaked me out when he said this too, but yeah, I think the stepfather approach might make more sense.  Stillllll... you never know...........
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Cardacct on February 08, 2007, 02:26:10 AM
Well, they certainly don't have much resemblance if they're related.

Alex does throw a wrench into the aging theory for me because it really does seem that Danielle has been on the island for 16 years.  The distress signal had been playing for 16 years, according to the calculation Sayid made, so it would seem that Alex has been there for 16 years, too.

But the aging problem could be a recent problem that they've had.  Who knows?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on February 08, 2007, 02:28:34 AM
I dont know if anyone has thought of this but didn't they take Alex when she was a baby.  So how did they know what her name was?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: dcnole on February 08, 2007, 02:29:53 AM
I know I am not the only one who had picked up on the strong hints from Ben in 3x6 about him treating Alex as his daughter (adopted, or otherwise). Right before surgery, he said "Did Alex ask about me?"  I guess it could have been interpreted as him having a relationship with her, but it sure seemed more likely that he viewed her as his child, since she was so young, and had been their captive for years.  It was definitely discussed on this forum back in November.

In fact, I was so sure he was her surrogate father, that I thought he had said it outright in 3x6 until I went back and watched that scene right before his surgery. When I heard it tonight, I didn't even flinch. 
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Cardacct on February 08, 2007, 02:32:29 AM
I dont know if anyone has thought of this but didn't they take Alex when she was a baby.  So how did they know what her name was?

I would guess that at some point Danielle screamed at them to give them back her Alex (possibly while pointing a crossbow or harpoon at them), but that's just one theory.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: mindsparkle on February 08, 2007, 02:36:55 AM
Alex does throw a wrench into the aging theory for me because it really does seem that Danielle has been on the island for 16 years.  The distress signal had been playing for 16 years, according to the calculation Sayid made, so it would seem that Alex has been there for 16 years, too.

I think Sayid may have been fooled and the distress signal has not been playing for 16 years, Rousseau said "they" have control of the radio tower... why haven't they changed the signal... probably because there is no need, no one can hear it anyway... I just have a strong feeling about the time frame on the island is going to be thrown off because of aging...
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Cardacct on February 08, 2007, 02:41:39 AM
Alex does throw a wrench into the aging theory for me because it really does seem that Danielle has been on the island for 16 years.  The distress signal had been playing for 16 years, according to the calculation Sayid made, so it would seem that Alex has been there for 16 years, too.

I think Sayid may have been fooled and the distress signal has not been playing for 16 years, Rousseau said "they" have control of the radio tower... why haven't they changed the signal... probably because there is no need, no one can hear it anyway... I just have a strong feeling about the time frame on the island is going to be thrown off because of aging...

Good point, mindsparkle (as always).  The Others easily could have manipulated the signal.  My concerns regarding Alex relating to the theory have effectively been resolved.

Yay for NO TIME TRAVEL!
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: lostfromthestart on February 08, 2007, 09:29:11 AM
I agree with Mindsparkle.  Ben has been her surragate father since they captured her.  It really has been 16 years.  To me, Alex looks older than 16.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jugdish on February 08, 2007, 10:08:33 AM
Alex was taken from Danielle and raised by Ben as his own daughter. Danielle and ALex have been on the island for 16 years and they look every part of that. Danielle killed her husband and Alex's dad 16 years ago.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: MaxsDad on February 08, 2007, 10:53:10 AM
ALEX IS NOT BEN's child, Danielle was pregnant when she arrived on the island and had the baby by herself....ITS NOT BENS KID! THINK ABOUT IT!  Its easier to have control over a child if you convince them your there parent, I think Alex would be even more rebellious and violent if they told her that she was stolen from her Mom at an early age! :-\
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: LostGirlDeb on February 08, 2007, 12:15:22 PM
I agree with Juggy and Rick and everybody about Ben being her surrogate father
But one thing did cross my mind when I saw what they did to Carl

What if they did something similar (brainwashing) to Danielle and that is why she is a whack job.  Not sure if it would make a difference or anything but it did cross my mind and it could explain why she is the way she is.  Maybe they told her to tell that story or something....not sure but I would be interested to find out just how Ben became Alex's father and how she was taken from Rousseau etc..  (what REALLY happend)  Its about time we get a Danielle Rousseau flashback...long overdue
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jugdish on February 08, 2007, 01:14:59 PM
So who is Carl's parents, real or adoptative? How did he get to the island? Hopefully carl can give some answers now that he is with the losties.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: MaxsDad on February 08, 2007, 01:22:36 PM
I agree with Juggy and Rick and everybody about Ben being her surrogate father
But one thing did cross my mind when I saw what they did to Carl

What if they did something similar (brainwashing) to Danielle and that is why she is a whack job.  Not sure if it would make a difference or anything but it did cross my mind and it could explain why she is the way she is.  Maybe they told her to tell that story or something....not sure but I would be interested to find out just how Ben became Alex's father and how she was taken from Rousseau etc..  (what REALLY happend)  Its about time we get a Danielle Rousseau flashback...long overdue
I agree Debs, and a good speculation, maybe they did do something to her head! And yes lets see a Danielle flashback!
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: uofapiglet on February 08, 2007, 04:23:05 PM
I agree with most of you in that Ben is most-likely Alex's surrogate or adoptive father. That is unless Juliet is referring to another guy that is sleeping or somehow not awake. I still think it's probably Ben though.

I'm not sure if Alex identifies herself as Ben's actual biological daughter or if she knows that she's adopted or has a crazy French chick running around on the other island for a mom... but one thing is for sure, even though she rescued Carl and helped Sawyer & Kate escape, she chose to stay on Alcatraz and go back with Juliet - which means she cares about Carl, and rebels (like most teenagers) but proabaly respects her supposed dad's wishes. Last year, she fought just to say "I want to speak to my father" and even manipulated Aldo the guard, so obviously she is aware of his power and status in their community, and how her relationship to him can be used to her advantage.

Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Cardacct on February 08, 2007, 04:50:39 PM
I agree with Mindsparkle.  Ben has been her surragate father since they captured her.  It really has been 16 years.  To me, Alex looks older than 16.

That's not what mindsparkle said.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Optimus J on February 08, 2007, 05:21:22 PM
Nah, for me Danielle turned into a luné by the loneliness, the 16 years might be a miscalculation, since it's based solely on the radio message, and Ben is f*ing son of b*, that adopted Alex instead using her in experiments, with other children, that Walt hinted us are in the others facilities. Waldo (LOL) was guarding a complex with at least 27 rooms. Who knows what is behind the rest of doors?
Thinking about that, the obsessive protecting behavior of their facilities, makes sense if the others are protecting their children.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 08, 2007, 06:24:39 PM
I agree with Mindsparkle.  Ben has been her surragate father since they captured her.  It really has been 16 years.  To me, Alex looks older than 16.

That's not what mindsparkle said.
The actress for Alex is 18 years old (almost 19 now). When the series started (or when we first saw her), she would have been 16.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Ladybug on February 09, 2007, 12:44:36 PM
I wondered that exact thing jillybean4u, makes me want to go back and watch that episode where she was talking about it.  My guess is he could have been her husband and Alex's real dad.  Hense the desire to take Rousseau's baby because it was his own flesh and blood. 

Think about this though, remember Rousseau put an arrow in Ben after he got out of the net.  There didnt seem to be a surprised look on either of their faces when they saw each other.
Ben had been hanging around in the net for a while before Sayid cut him down. Also, I'm pretty sure that Danielle and Ben would know who each other were. If not, then Ben would know who Danielle was, and Danielle would have not been too surprised to catch another person in her nets.
IF danielle knew ben:

1.  she would have asked for alex.  she's been looking for her daughter like crazy, why would she put an arrow in him without asking about alex?

2.  one of them would have acknowledged the other.  (unless they are working together, which is another story)

i had another one, but someone came in and i forgot.  maybe i'll remember it later.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jugdish on February 09, 2007, 01:24:08 PM
Ben did not have Alex with Danielle. No evidence of this and everything we know contracdicts this. Either Ben is a surrogate father, or Alex is not Danielles.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Ladybug on February 09, 2007, 01:49:11 PM
Ben did not have Alex with Danielle. No evidence of this and everything we know contracdicts this. Either Ben is a surrogate father, or Alex is not Danielles.

i agree with you jugdish.  i wonder who karl's parents are.  don't you find it odd that we don't know that yet?  i mean i suppose he was born on the island, which would mean either he's an other's, or was stollen, so where did he come from?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Kosmetas on February 09, 2007, 04:59:29 PM
Quote
i agree with you jugdish.  i wonder who karl's parents are.  don't you find it odd that we don't know that yet?  i mean i suppose he was born on the island, which would mean either he's an other's, or was stollen, so where did he come from?
This brings up a point that has bothered me from the very begining, where are all the kids?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 09, 2007, 05:40:42 PM
Quote
i agree with you jugdish.  i wonder who karl's parents are.  don't you find it odd that we don't know that yet?  i mean i suppose he was born on the island, which would mean either he's an other's, or was stollen, so where did he come from?
This brings up a point that has bothered me from the very begining, where are all the kids?
Re: Kos

I think that the Others sent most of them back. I could be completely wrong.

Re: LB

I'm very curious to find out about this too. Who is Carl and where did he come from? It seems like he's almost Alex's age, or a little older. Was he in Rousseau's team as well? Is he (dare I say it) Alex's twin, and this is why they are supposed to be kept apart?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Ladybug on February 09, 2007, 05:58:33 PM
Quote
i agree with you jugdish.  i wonder who karl's parents are.  don't you find it odd that we don't know that yet?  i mean i suppose he was born on the island, which would mean either he's an other's, or was stollen, so where did he come from?
This brings up a point that has bothered me from the very begining, where are all the kids?
Re: Kos

I think that the Others sent most of them back. I could be completely wrong.

Re: LB

I'm very curious to find out about this too. Who is Carl and where did he come from? It seems like he's almost Alex's age, or a little older. Was he in Rousseau's team as well? Is he (dare I say it) Alex's twin, and this is why they are supposed to be kept apart?
i don't think he's her twin.  let me re-phrase that, i don't think danielle gave birth to a son without her knowledge.  now if we get down to this cloning/making babies with no daddies/making babies with no mommies/freaky stuff i don't know who karl is.  i guess he could be alex's brother.  that's kind of the impression i get because they want them apart so bad.  if the others are so intent on having kids and stealing kids why would they keep alex & karl from procreating? 
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 09, 2007, 06:04:23 PM
Quote
i agree with you jugdish.  i wonder who karl's parents are.  don't you find it odd that we don't know that yet?  i mean i suppose he was born on the island, which would mean either he's an other's, or was stollen, so where did he come from?
This brings up a point that has bothered me from the very begining, where are all the kids?
Re: Kos

I think that the Others sent most of them back. I could be completely wrong.

Re: LB

I'm very curious to find out about this too. Who is Carl and where did he come from? It seems like he's almost Alex's age, or a little older. Was he in Rousseau's team as well? Is he (dare I say it) Alex's twin, and this is why they are supposed to be kept apart?
i don't think he's her twin.  let me re-phrase that, i don't think danielle gave birth to a son without her knowledge.  now if we get down to this cloning/making babies with no daddies/making babies with no mommies/freaky stuff i don't know who karl is.  i guess he could be alex's brother.  that's kind of the impression i get because they want them apart so bad.  if the others are so intent on having kids and stealing kids why would they keep alex & karl from procreating? 
Maybe Danielle does know about it, but doesn't care about Carl as much as she wants Alex ???

Ok, I'm going crazy over that ;D I don't think they are twins either, but I could see it play out.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: LostGirlDeb on February 09, 2007, 06:19:35 PM

I think that the Others sent most of them back. I could be completely wrong.



Ummmm JB sent them back to where?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 09, 2007, 06:25:48 PM
Bakc home, Debs.

Where else? ;D
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: airdudei on February 09, 2007, 06:34:30 PM
Ben did not have Alex with Danielle. No evidence of this and everything we know contracdicts this. Either Ben is a surrogate father, or Alex is not Danielles.


How does everything we know contradict this? Alex's name is still Alex. That means Ben didn't just steal Alex from Danielle. As far as I know, Ben knocked her up. It sure seemed to me that he's the real father and until they say so otherwise, all signs point that way to me.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 09, 2007, 06:38:25 PM
Ben did not have Alex with Danielle. No evidence of this and everything we know contracdicts this. Either Ben is a surrogate father, or Alex is not Danielles.

Well, what we know states this:

Danielle was already pregnant before she arrived on the island.

Danielle has been on the island for over 16 years, thus Alex is 16 years old.

Alex is Danielle's child.

Ben has been on the island his whole life.

Danielle had a husband, whom she killed.

The evidence we have seems to contradict the thought that Alex is Ben's child as well. I don't think it rules it out, but makes it extremely improbable.

How does everything we know contradict this? Alex's name is still Alex. That means Ben didn't just steal Alex from Danielle. As far as I know, Ben knocked her up. It sure seemed to me that he's the real father and until they say so otherwise, all signs point that way to me.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jugdish on February 10, 2007, 02:08:24 AM
Ben did not have Alex with Danielle. No evidence of this and everything we know contracdicts this. Either Ben is a surrogate father, or Alex is not Danielles.


How does everything we know contradict this? Alex's name is still Alex. That means Ben didn't just steal Alex from Danielle. As far as I know, Ben knocked her up. It sure seemed to me that he's the real father and until they say so otherwise, all signs point that way to me.

You could not be more off base with this post. What JB said above are the facts. Other than having people call him dad to Alex, every piece of evidence points to Ben not being her biological father.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 10, 2007, 02:15:26 AM
my question then is this...why would they not change her name to further conceal the truth?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jugdish on February 10, 2007, 02:17:33 AM
No answer to that question. That is why I am saying it is a different Alex(I don't think so) or he is her surrogate father. No way he mated with Danielle
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 10, 2007, 02:19:23 AM
No answer to that question. That is why I am saying it is a different Alex(I don't think so) or he is her surrogate father. No way he mated with Danielle
I agree.  Another question that I think relates to this issue, though.....Danielle told Sayid that she had never seen "others" on the island.  Why then was she so confident that Ben was "one of them" when she caught him in her net?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 10, 2007, 10:37:06 AM
I think Danielle lies a lot. I'm not sure why, but she does.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: firemanandlostfan on February 10, 2007, 11:18:07 AM
Could you imagine if Danielle actually is teaming up with Ben.  Lets look at the evidence.  Ben just "happens" to get caught in her net, I find this kind of fishy, although Danielle did try to refute his story of being Henry Gale by saying he would lie for a long time.  When he was running away why did she not put an arrow into his heart instead of his shoulder which wasnt life threatening?  A bad shot or by design to make them take him to the hatch for treatment and recon of what is going on in the "Losties" community.  Ben is good at promises, maybe he told Danielle that he knew where Alex was and would get her, her daughter back if she helped him.  that wouldnt be far from the norm would it?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 10, 2007, 11:26:36 AM
She didn't want to kill him because she wanted them to get some answers. Maybe she thought he would tell them where Alex is, but a dead man can't do that. She trusts Sayid as much as she trusts anyone else on the island, so that's why she let Sayid take him back.

I really don't believe that Alex and Ben are teamed up in any fashion.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: firemanandlostfan on February 10, 2007, 11:31:43 AM
She didn't want to kill him because she wanted them to get some answers. Maybe she thought he would tell them where Alex is, but a dead man can't do that. She trusts Sayid as much as she trusts anyone else on the island, so that's why she let Sayid take him back.

I really don't believe that Alex and Ben are teamed up in any fashion.

Would make for an interesting twist though right?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 10, 2007, 11:32:43 AM
Yeah I suppose... I just don't see it happening. If they were a team, then Danielle would have Alex.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: LostGirlDeb on February 10, 2007, 02:32:14 PM
Could you imagine if Danielle actually is teaming up with Ben.  Lets look at the evidence.  Ben just "happens" to get caught in her net, I find this kind of fishy, although Danielle did try to refute his story of being Henry Gale by saying he would lie for a long time.  When he was running away why did she not put an arrow into his heart instead of his shoulder which wasnt life threatening?  A bad shot or by design to make them take him to the hatch for treatment and recon of what is going on in the "Losties" community.  Ben is good at promises, maybe he told Danielle that he knew where Alex was and would get her, her daughter back if she helped him.  that wouldnt be far from the norm would it?
I would not be one bit surprised if it turned out this way...but I would be dissapointed because even though she is nut job I still like her because I think she is NOT with the others and looking out for the interest of our Losties
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: LostGirlDeb on February 10, 2007, 02:38:11 PM
Ben did not have Alex with Danielle. No evidence of this and everything we know contracdicts this. Either Ben is a surrogate father, or Alex is not Danielles.


How does everything we know contradict this? Alex's name is still Alex. That means Ben didn't just steal Alex from Danielle. As far as I know, Ben knocked her up. It sure seemed to me that he's the real father and until they say so otherwise, all signs point that way to me.

I also think you are way off here
There is nothing at all that supports that Ben could have knocked her up, if it is pure speculation, then I suppose anything is possible.  You say "it sure seems to me that Ben is the real father" how did you come to that conclusion?  As far as we have seen so far we are not even sure that it is Ben they are referring to when they talk about her father (we are all just assuming at this point).  But if Ben is the one they are referring too I really doubt that he is her biological father.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: DaddyBeast on February 10, 2007, 04:49:25 PM
I agree with Lostgirl.  TPTB have deliberately used words and phrases that keep us guessing about who Alex's "Father" is.

Why would Jules or Alex fear a man who is face-down unconscious right now?

My guess is that Alex's "Father" is on the main Island, not Pala.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Wishbone on February 10, 2007, 05:47:08 PM
I don't think Ben is Alex's biological dad.

I do wonder about the day he was caught in a net by Danielle though, I always thought it was a bit fishy (no pun intended ;D) because he is soooooo important to the others yet he was the one that went to suss out the losties. This may have been his own choice but still a risky one with 'leader'. I believe Danielle has had some sort of contact with the others in the past - she said she had never seen them but she had heard the whispers - maybe she struck a deal with Ben that day, maybe she would get Alex back if Ben was saved and so helped him to get closer to them, and get Ben his spinal surgeon. I think everything Danielle said to the losties up to that point was genuine.

I also wonder if Alex has ever seen Danielle, she has been on the island before and she had a boat so could go back whenever she wanted. She seems quite normal too so if she saw someone else on the island maybe she would try to speak to them - if she wanted to.

I'm still pondering on Carl - I don't think he is Alex's brother because Danielle would remember having another baby and I think if he was Ben's son (ciurtesy of Juliettes magic potion) Ben would care about him a bit more - I'll have to think about Carl a bit more...
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: ChrisB4290 on February 10, 2007, 10:30:10 PM
i thought that this was mentioned in a previous episode? im not sure if im alone.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: airdudei on February 11, 2007, 12:44:13 AM
Ben did not have Alex with Danielle. No evidence of this and everything we know contracdicts this. Either Ben is a surrogate father, or Alex is not Danielles.


How does everything we know contradict this? Alex's name is still Alex. That means Ben didn't just steal Alex from Danielle. As far as I know, Ben knocked her up. It sure seemed to me that he's the real father and until they say so otherwise, all signs point that way to me.

You could not be more off base with this post. What JB said above are the facts. Other than having people call him dad to Alex, every piece of evidence points to Ben not being her biological father.

WHAT EVIDENCE? PROVE IT? I don't have to prove that Ben is not Alex's father. That is what everyone on this site is trying to do. They're SPECULATING that Ben stole Alex and that he lied to her about being her father. Where do you guys get this information from?? Your imagination. I'm being reasonable.

They said Alex's father was Ben. Thats all the evidence I need.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: airdudei on February 11, 2007, 12:45:03 AM
Ben did not have Alex with Danielle. No evidence of this and everything we know contracdicts this. Either Ben is a surrogate father, or Alex is not Danielles.


How does everything we know contradict this? Alex's name is still Alex. That means Ben didn't just steal Alex from Danielle. As far as I know, Ben knocked her up. It sure seemed to me that he's the real father and until they say so otherwise, all signs point that way to me.

I also think you are way off here
There is nothing at all that supports that Ben could have knocked her up, if it is pure speculation, then I suppose anything is possible.  You say "it sure seems to me that Ben is the real father" how did you come to that conclusion?  As far as we have seen so far we are not even sure that it is Ben they are referring to when they talk about her father (we are all just assuming at this point).  But if Ben is the one they are referring too I really doubt that he is her biological father.


HAHAHAHA There's nothing that suggests he didn't knock her up either! Get real people.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: daisyrain on February 11, 2007, 12:48:45 AM
Danielle arrived on the isalnd when she was pregnant, Ben has lived on the island his whole life. Ben is not the biological father he just raised her.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: airdudei on February 11, 2007, 01:13:08 AM
Bens a liar, he probably crashed with Danielle
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: daisyrain on February 11, 2007, 01:18:59 AM
If he was part of Danielles team why would she hand him over to Sayid when he gets trapped in the net?
I agree he is a liar but I dont think he had anything to do with Danielle getting pregnant
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jugdish on February 11, 2007, 02:11:58 AM
Bens a liar, he probably crashed with Danielle

But the information came from Danielle not Ben.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 11, 2007, 11:32:09 AM
Bens a liar, he probably crashed with Danielle
Danielle said she killed everyone from the team, and then the OTHERs stole Alex.

Ben has Alex.

Ben is one of the others.

Therefore, Ben was not in the science team.

Therefore Ben did not have sex with Danielle and get her pregnant when they were on opposite sides of the globe, literally.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jugdish on February 11, 2007, 01:20:11 PM
Bens a liar, he probably crashed with Danielle
Danielle said she killed everyone from the team, and then the OTHERs stole Alex.

Ben has Alex.

Ben is one of the others.

Therefore, Ben was not in the science team.

Therefore Ben did not have sex with Danielle and get her pregnant when they were on opposite sides of the globe, literally.

Perfectly stated!!
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 11, 2007, 01:31:25 PM
Bens a liar, he probably crashed with Danielle
Danielle said she killed everyone from the team, and then the OTHERs stole Alex.

Ben has Alex.

Ben is one of the others.

Therefore, Ben was not in the science team.

Therefore Ben did not have sex with Danielle and get her pregnant when they were on opposite sides of the globe, literally.

Perfectly stated!!
Thanks Juggy. Does this make up for some of my crappily stated posts? :D
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jugdish on February 11, 2007, 01:37:23 PM
It helps ;)
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 11, 2007, 01:45:43 PM
"crapily stated"??? rofl  :D :D :D

Yes...that was a good post, JB.  It encapsulates my thoughts as well.  :)
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 11, 2007, 01:48:01 PM
"crapily stated"??? rofl  :D :D :D

Yes...that was a good post, JB.  It encapsulates my thoughts as well.  :)
Thanks guys!
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Optimus J on February 13, 2007, 03:14:47 AM
Bens a liar, he probably crashed with Danielle
Danielle said she killed everyone from the team, and then the OTHERs stole Alex.

Ben has Alex.

Ben is one of the others.

Therefore, Ben was not in the science team.

Therefore Ben did not have sex with Danielle and get her pregnant when they were on opposite sides of the globe, literally.
Thinking more deeply it's even ironic that Danielle had the guy who stole her daughter in her hands and handed it to Sayid. Dude, if she knew...
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 13, 2007, 03:19:00 AM
Bens a liar, he probably crashed with Danielle
Danielle said she killed everyone from the team, and then the OTHERs stole Alex.

Ben has Alex.

Ben is one of the others.

Therefore, Ben was not in the science team.

Therefore Ben did not have sex with Danielle and get her pregnant when they were on opposite sides of the globe, literally.
Thinking more deeply it's even ironic that Danielle had the guy who stole her daughter in her hands and handed it to Sayid. Dude, if she knew...
Good point!  As hard as she has tried to get Alex back??  Yeah....this gives me all the more reason to believe that Ben & Danielle are NOT in cahoots.  lol

Great post.  :)
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jugdish on February 13, 2007, 09:49:30 AM
That is exactly why they are not in cahoots, Danielle did not know who she had in her net.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Creflo on February 13, 2007, 10:28:48 AM
Quote
How can we be sure that Rousseau hasn't been an Other the whole time, and stationed on the island to interact sincerely with our islanders?

One speculation:  She's not a plant, but a runaway Other.  How is it possible that she has NEVER seen an Other before catching Ben in the net?  Yet she knows he will lie for a long time.  She knows to set booby traps, not just for food animals, but to make sure her dugout explode if Others try to mess with it.  She seems pretty adaptive to survival and has some pretty nice supplies.

Everybody lies on this island!

She probably legitimately caught Ben but neither one is going to completely spoil the other one's story to the Losties.  As to why Ben, the alleged "leader", was sent on the mission to the main island, it's fairly simple.  He's not the leader.  He's probably the most skilled agent, most resistive to torture, best able to think on his feet.  He's probably very receptive to the telepathic whispers which help provide guidance with his storytelling.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Ladybug on February 13, 2007, 10:54:00 AM
i think danielle has not seen the others in all these years because they have not wanted to be seen.  they have hidden from her so as to hide alex from her too.  basically they have ignored her. 
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: goober on February 13, 2007, 01:01:42 PM
What she said  ;D
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jugdish on February 13, 2007, 01:02:27 PM
i think danielle has not seen the others in all these years because they have not wanted to be seen.  they have hidden from her so as to hide alex from her too.  basically they have ignored her. 

agreed!
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 13, 2007, 05:45:56 PM
i think danielle has not seen the others in all these years because they have not wanted to be seen.  they have hidden from her so as to hide alex from her too.  basically they have ignored her. 

agreed!
LB, if you keep posting things like this, you're going to have quite a following. I agree too.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: BlackrockBob on February 13, 2007, 05:56:42 PM
I am going out on a limb here and saying that isn't exactly it.
Please allow me to speculate:
1) Rousseau's ship crashes on the island due to an incident with the Swan.
2) They discover the transmitter that was transmitting the numbers.
3) The crew becomes "infected."
4) Rousseau kills them all because she is afraid they will infect the baby.
5) She changes the message on the transmitter to imply it was the monster on the island and not her that killed her crew.
6) Ben "rescues" Rousseau and tells her he has a cure.
7) Rousseau has Alex.
8 ) Ben takes Alex, and they attempt to condition Rousseau.
9) The conditioning doesn't work, but drives her crazy.
10) They dump her off on the other side of the island.
11) She is too crazy to leave her part of the island and can't find the Staff station because it is hidden.
12) She goes more crazy as the "years" go on.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 13, 2007, 06:13:10 PM
Good thoughts, except for one part:

Why didn't she keep Ben and force him to take her to Alex?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: PrincessLeia on February 13, 2007, 07:13:07 PM
Good thoughts, except for one part:

Why didn't she keep Ben and force him to take her to Alex?
I think one of his main points is that she's crazy.  :)
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 13, 2007, 11:11:45 PM
You'd think that no matter how crazy she is, if she is always screaming for Alex, then she'd at least mention Alex to Ben.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: airdudei on February 14, 2007, 01:09:42 AM
If he was part of Danielles team why would she hand him over to Sayid when he gets trapped in the net?
I agree he is a liar but I dont think he had anything to do with Danielle getting pregnant

Because he abandoned her, which is a decent theory, and she's getting retribution by calling him an other, and she probably didn't even know who he was. For the time being until I am proved wrong, and I won't be, I am right when I say that Ben is Alex's real father.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: airdudei on February 14, 2007, 01:23:18 AM
MAN YOU GUYS ARE TRUSTING A LIARS WORDS (BEN) AND A CRAZY FRENCH BITCH WITH YOUR PRIDE!

One is a lyin' piece of garbage and the other has more screws loose than an LA Hooker.

There's more to the story than we know.

And I'm not going to sit here and believe that Rousseau killed her whole crew over a virus which is non-existant. That's obviously not true so Rousseau could very easily be an other
radical.

If you guys want to throw out theories about how Ben and Danielle are not connected some how besides the fact that he stole Alex, then go ahead, and I'll bring my own theory.

One of us will be right.

I'll drink a Guinness for ya after I celebrate when I'm right.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jugdish on February 14, 2007, 10:29:42 AM
You are going to be thirsty for a long time.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Ladybug on February 14, 2007, 10:53:23 AM
I am going out on a limb here and saying that isn't exactly it.
Please allow me to speculate:
1) Rousseau's ship crashes on the island due to an incident with the Swan.
2) They discover the transmitter that was transmitting the numbers.
3) The crew becomes "infected."
4) Rousseau kills them all because she is afraid they will infect the baby.
5) She changes the message on the transmitter to imply it was the monster on the island and not her that killed her crew.
6) Ben "rescues" Rousseau and tells her he has a cure.
7) Rousseau has Alex.
8 ) Ben takes Alex, and they attempt to condition Rousseau.
9) The conditioning doesn't work, but drives her crazy.
10) They dump her off on the other side of the island.
11) She is too crazy to leave her part of the island and can't find the Staff station because it is hidden.
12) She goes more crazy as the "years" go on.
this sounds great, but i don't think ben (as he is now) and danielle have ever met.  let me explain, IF they have met, i think ben was in disguise or looked a lot different.  otherwise she would have recognized him "in the net".  i still think she's just a crazy lady that they stole her baby and leave her alone.  they got what they wanted out of her.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 14, 2007, 12:07:37 PM
If he was part of Danielles team why would she hand him over to Sayid when he gets trapped in the net?
I agree he is a liar but I dont think he had anything to do with Danielle getting pregnant

Because he abandoned her, which is a decent theory, and she's getting retribution by calling him an other, and she probably didn't even know who he was. For the time being until I am proved wrong, and I won't be, I am right when I say that Ben is Alex's real father.
TPTB have said that Ben was not her father, and almost stated thet Danielle was her mother (but that's still a "Mystery" for some folks). I'm going with the Producers on this one. Ben just adopted her.

Also, we know that Danielle had the capability to kill her entire team. Remember what she did to Sayid? She pulled out the firing pin in Sayid's gun and was about to shoot him.

She said that's what her husband said too.

Nope, Ben is NOT her father.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: FrostyLosty on February 14, 2007, 05:18:51 PM
Here's a question i have about Ben & Alex. And well Danielle, too.  Do we know what Danielle's husband's name was.  He was on the boat with her right?  Danielle said something about the sickness or whatever took them.  Did she actually have proof they died?  Could Ben be her husband?

Probably a long shot, but that's the first thing I thought of.
(Sorry if its been adressed!!) Well, remember when Danielle caught Ben in the net and 'gave' him to Sayid. She seemed to know about him, and I quote; 'For a long time, he will lie' As if Danielle actually knew who he was, what his game plan is.  If this is true, they must of 'broken up' (If that is the right word) becuase no lover would shoot an arrow in their sholder, only cupid does that with love arrows :D.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 14, 2007, 05:35:40 PM
Here's a question i have about Ben & Alex. And well Danielle, too.  Do we know what Danielle's husband's name was.  He was on the boat with her right?  Danielle said something about the sickness or whatever took them.  Did she actually have proof they died?  Could Ben be her husband?

Probably a long shot, but that's the first thing I thought of.
(Sorry if its been adressed!!) Well, remember when Danielle caught Ben in the net and 'gave' him to Sayid. She seemed to know about him, and I quote; 'For a long time, he will lie' As if Danielle actually knew who he was, what his game plan is.  If this is true, they must of 'broken up' (If that is the right word) becuase no lover would shoot an arrow in their sholder, only cupid does that with love arrows :D.
I think she was saying that because she knew what kind of people they were. I really don't think she had ever seen Ben before.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: FrostyLosty on February 14, 2007, 05:38:53 PM
Here's a question i have about Ben & Alex. And well Danielle, too.  Do we know what Danielle's husband's name was.  He was on the boat with her right?  Danielle said something about the sickness or whatever took them.  Did she actually have proof they died?  Could Ben be her husband?

Probably a long shot, but that's the first thing I thought of.
(Sorry if its been adressed!!) Well, remember when Danielle caught Ben in the net and 'gave' him to Sayid. She seemed to know about him, and I quote; 'For a long time, he will lie' As if Danielle actually knew who he was, what his game plan is.  If this is true, they must of 'broken up' (If that is the right word) becuase no lover would shoot an arrow in their sholder, only cupid does that with love arrows :D.
I think she was saying that because she knew what kind of people they were. I really don't think she had ever seen Ben before.
Do you believe that Danielle has been on the other island (Alcatraz)?
I'm sure there is some sort of conspiricy going on between Danielle and the others, it just doesn't make sence at the time, I can't put my finger on it.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 14, 2007, 05:44:58 PM
Here's a question i have about Ben & Alex. And well Danielle, too.  Do we know what Danielle's husband's name was.  He was on the boat with her right?  Danielle said something about the sickness or whatever took them.  Did she actually have proof they died?  Could Ben be her husband?

Probably a long shot, but that's the first thing I thought of.
(Sorry if its been adressed!!) Well, remember when Danielle caught Ben in the net and 'gave' him to Sayid. She seemed to know about him, and I quote; 'For a long time, he will lie' As if Danielle actually knew who he was, what his game plan is.  If this is true, they must of 'broken up' (If that is the right word) becuase no lover would shoot an arrow in their sholder, only cupid does that with love arrows :D.
I think she was saying that because she knew what kind of people they were. I really don't think she had ever seen Ben before.
Do you believe that Danielle has been on the other island (Alcatraz)?
I'm sure there is some sort of conspiricy going on between Danielle and the others, it just doesn't make sence at the time, I can't put my finger on it.
No, I don't think she's been on the other island. I think the only boat she's seen since her boat is the Black Rock.

I also do not think there is any conspiracy between Danielle and the Others.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: FrostyLosty on February 14, 2007, 05:48:05 PM
Here's a question i have about Ben & Alex. And well Danielle, too.  Do we know what Danielle's husband's name was.  He was on the boat with her right?  Danielle said something about the sickness or whatever took them.  Did she actually have proof they died?  Could Ben be her husband?

Probably a long shot, but that's the first thing I thought of.
(Sorry if its been adressed!!) Well, remember when Danielle caught Ben in the net and 'gave' him to Sayid. She seemed to know about him, and I quote; 'For a long time, he will lie' As if Danielle actually knew who he was, what his game plan is.  If this is true, they must of 'broken up' (If that is the right word) becuase no lover would shoot an arrow in their sholder, only cupid does that with love arrows :D.
I think she was saying that because she knew what kind of people they were. I really don't think she had ever seen Ben before.
Do you believe that Danielle has been on the other island (Alcatraz)?
I'm sure there is some sort of conspiricy going on between Danielle and the others, it just doesn't make sence at the time, I can't put my finger on it.
No, I don't think she's been on the other island. I think the only boat she's seen since her boat is the Black Rock.

I also do not think there is any conspiracy between Danielle and the Others.
So you believe the story Danielle told our Losties, about her boat becomming stranded etc.?
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: JBRam on February 14, 2007, 05:49:51 PM
Here's a question i have about Ben & Alex. And well Danielle, too.  Do we know what Danielle's husband's name was.  He was on the boat with her right?  Danielle said something about the sickness or whatever took them.  Did she actually have proof they died?  Could Ben be her husband?

Probably a long shot, but that's the first thing I thought of.
(Sorry if its been adressed!!) Well, remember when Danielle caught Ben in the net and 'gave' him to Sayid. She seemed to know about him, and I quote; 'For a long time, he will lie' As if Danielle actually knew who he was, what his game plan is.  If this is true, they must of 'broken up' (If that is the right word) becuase no lover would shoot an arrow in their sholder, only cupid does that with love arrows :D.
I think she was saying that because she knew what kind of people they were. I really don't think she had ever seen Ben before.
Do you believe that Danielle has been on the other island (Alcatraz)?
I'm sure there is some sort of conspiricy going on between Danielle and the others, it just doesn't make sence at the time, I can't put my finger on it.
No, I don't think she's been on the other island. I think the only boat she's seen since her boat is the Black Rock.

I also do not think there is any conspiracy between Danielle and the Others.
So you believe the story Danielle told our Losties, about her boat becomming stranded etc.?
For the most part. I think she has little reason to lie, especially since there are a lot more LOSTies than her. She wants her privacy, and she wants to use the Losties to help find Alex. She is not connected with the Others, except in the fact that she knows they have Alex.

Just my thoughts... doesn't mean it's 100% correct.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: jugdish on February 14, 2007, 09:48:29 PM
I believe Danielles story until I have reason not to.
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Wishbone on February 15, 2007, 08:36:07 PM
I think Danielle was genuine until she caught Ben. Claire had already told her that there was a girl called Alex with the others when they took her so I don't think she would let one go that easily. I believe she made a deal with Ben the day she caught him and part of the deal was to hand him over to the losties. But I believe everything she said and did before that moment.

Ben is definitely not Alex's biological dad, it isn't possible to impregnate a woman who is already pregnant!!
Title: Re: We Both Know Your Father
Post by: Kosmetas on February 21, 2007, 02:05:28 PM
Danielle has infiltrated the losties just as Ethan and Goodwin.  For some reason they trust her, even though she stole Aaron.  She is a plant, the others lie, and she used the trust the losties have in her to get Ben into their camp.  Ben was not captured by Danielle. It was a obvious setup to get him inside the camp.  If she actually did capture the leader of the others, regardless of where he was held they would have come and got him back.  They can come and get anyone they want anytime they need.