Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 3 => Episode 3x06 => Topic started by: dcnole on November 09, 2006, 12:00:49 AM

Title: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: dcnole on November 09, 2006, 12:00:49 AM
..."Did Alex ask about me?"...."No, we took her home last night."

To me, these 4 lines were the most interesting of the episode.  The first two were heard when Alex stormed the work site.  The second two was an exchange between Juliet and Benry right before he went under for surgery.

I'm interested in them for a few reasons.  First, the fact that Benry's lieutenants appear to be lying because Alex clearly asked for Ben. Why they're lying, I have no idea.   

Second, I think it's very interesting that Alex was able to get to the 2nd island without anyone knowing (so you can get back and forth by some other means than swimming the English Channel is possible), and also that that she wasn't supposed to be there.  Clearly, there is more of a rigid heirarchy to the Others than we know about. It appears that certain Others are stationed on the main island, and another group is stationed on the 2nd island.  It also appears that some Others don't have clearance to be with the group stationed on the 2nd island.  The question is, what is this main island Others tribe doing? Who is running them since Mr. Friendly has been chilling on Island #2 for a while? Where are they stationed?  What relationship do they have with Benry/Juliet/Tom, etc? 

I think we had speculated that there could be multiple outposts of Others, but this seems to clearly confirm it.  Maybe that explains why those Others on the main island seem so different (barefoot, raggy clothes, dirty) than the Others we saw at the book group on the day of the crash, and now interacting with Sawyer, Kate and Jack after capture.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: jugdish on November 09, 2006, 12:03:56 AM
There are some assumptions made here. Juliette said that she Alex was sent home. We do not know which island that is. Also Alex asked said she wanted to see Ben to the guys not to Juliette. So she did not know she asked about them. If my memory is correct.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: dcnole on November 09, 2006, 12:25:27 AM
There are some assumptions made here. Juliette said that she Alex was sent home. We do not know which island that is. Also Alex asked said she wanted to see Ben to the guys not to Juliette. So she did not know she asked about them. If my memory is correct.
Both of your comments are true and your memory is correct.  But neither is a significant assumptive leap on my part.  Clearly Tom wouldn't have said "how the hell did she get over here" if she lived "over here".  It wouldn't make sense.  And notice he didn't say "what the hell is she doing here" as if maybe to imply she just wasn't allowed on that part of the island.  The "how did she get over here" clearly suggests (albeit not 100% conclusively) that she isn't supposed to be on the island at all. If you accept that premise, her home must be on the main island. it wouldn't make sense otherwise. And since the only times we've seen her are hiding in the bushes on the 2nd island (never by the cages out in the open) or on the main island, there is certainly good circumstantial evidence that she is not supposed to be there.

As for her request, you are right she made it to Tom and not Juliet, but there would be no reason to put that line from Juliet in if it didn't mean anything.  Juliet could easily have said "I don't know" or, more likely, the writers wouldn't have included it if Juliet was just making pointless banter.  Tom and Juliet talk.  Juliet was clearly up to speed on what had happened to Alex after the scene at the work site.  I would say it is very likely (again, not 100% conclusive, as you say) that either Tom told Juliet what happened, a camera was on the worksite as the whole island seems to be under surveillance, or Juliet actually spoke to Alex before she was shipped off, and Alex repeated her demand.

It's pretty hard to make any connections in this show without some basic assumptions. 
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: jugdish on November 09, 2006, 12:28:04 AM
You may be correct. You make a strong arguement. It would support what they showed us last week with Juliette wanting Jack to kill Ben. She with held information because she wanted him to have the surgery
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: dcnole on November 09, 2006, 12:33:20 AM
You may be correct. You make a strong arguement. It would support what they showed us last week with Juliette wanting Jack to kill Ben. She with held information because she wanted him to have the surgery
Exactly. And it also fits in with the Jacob notion. If Benry is disobeying Jacob (whoever Jacob is) in some way, this might give us Juliet's motive for wanting Ben gone.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: jugdish on November 09, 2006, 12:35:35 AM
You may be correct. You make a strong arguement. It would support what they showed us last week with Juliette wanting Jack to kill Ben. She with held information because she wanted him to have the surgery
Exactly. And it also fits in with the Jacob notion. If Benry is disobeying Jacob (whoever Jacob is) in some way, this might give us Juliet's motive for wanting Ben gone.

Excellent, Especially if Jacob is someone not on the island. If he is trying to run things from the mainland then he would not know exactly what Ben is up to. So maybe Juliette is loyal to Jacob. I like it.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: mindsparkle on November 09, 2006, 12:40:29 AM
Just a nit picking point but I don't think anyone lives on the Hydra station island... I think it's a lab and they are using it to work on KSJ... when they leave they will all probably go back to the main island...

The only thing that makes me doubt this is when Kate was telling Jack that they were being made to work she added it was something big... like maybe a runway???

Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: mindsparkle on November 09, 2006, 12:42:15 AM
Oh, and meanwhile, I'm liking the direction you all are going with this theory... sounds very plausable to me... I didn't hear the name Jacob, I must have missed that part but I'm picking it up throught your conversation...
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: jugdish on November 09, 2006, 12:42:58 AM
Runway is interesting idea. They had the big shower area, but that could just be clean up before you go back to the village.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: nothingbutsky on November 09, 2006, 12:47:30 AM
wow, it seems that I got a completely different impression about Alex...it seemed pretty clear to me that she was working with the Others to convince Kate that they would kill Sawyer. She is just working them!

Who storms a prison camp with a slingshot??? Oh yeah, someone that believes that all those people with guns are cold blooded killers...that's who!

...on a side note...I also felt that Ben's remarks were that of a father asking about an estranged child. Maybe Ben raised her as his own but they had a falling out?
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: demra on November 09, 2006, 12:48:52 AM
i think that s fairly large group are staying on the hydra island at this point and it has to be equipped to handle a fair sized  crew from the days when they were experimenting on the animals
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: demra on November 09, 2006, 12:50:02 AM
wow, it seems that I got a completely different impression about Alex...it seemed pretty clear to me that she was working with the Others to convince Kate that they would kill Sawyer. She is just working them!

Who storms a prison camp with a slingshot??? Oh yeah, someone that believes that all those people with guns are cold blooded killers...that's who!

...on a side note...I also felt that Ben's remarks were that of a father asking about an estranged child. Maybe Ben raised her as his own but they had a falling out?


agreed 100%
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: jugdish on November 09, 2006, 12:50:19 AM
wow, it seems that I got a completely different impression about Alex...it seemed pretty clear to me that she was working with the Others to convince Kate that they would kill Sawyer. She is just working them!

Who storms a prison camp with a slingshot??? Oh yeah, someone that believes that all those people with guns are cold blooded killers...that's who!

...on a side note...I also felt that Ben's remarks were that of a father asking about an estranged child. Maybe Ben raised her as his own but they had a falling out?

It sounded like ALex talking to Jack on the intercom
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: demra on November 09, 2006, 12:54:06 AM
i think that Jack getting out was all part of the plan to get him to do the surgery

they were watching kate and sawyer the whole time  ( the lucky bastards )

so they knew when to let jack out and knew it would be easy to find the Op's room

the gun is a chance  Ben has taken before
he is shrewed
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: jugdish on November 09, 2006, 12:55:20 AM
When will the video of Kate and sawyer make you tube! The one Ben has that is.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: mindsparkle on November 09, 2006, 01:09:01 AM
I don't think Alex was just part of the con... she seems to truly care about this Carl guy, he's the only young man we've seen of the others, so maybe he was her boyfriend and Ben put his foot down and wouldn't let her see him and now she estranged from Ben and like any good parent Ben is wondering if she thinks of him...  a little family drama in the mist of this craziness...

She was truly slapping people with that sling shot... and I don't think she likes Danny (Pickett) he seems to be Ben's henchman and that's all, so maybe no one likes him. 

Just adding thoughts as they pop into my head... stream of consciouness kinda thing... I'm kinda stunned that Lost is over for another long spell... already starting to go through withdrawals.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: dcnole on November 09, 2006, 01:10:14 AM
wow, it seems that I got a completely different impression about Alex...it seemed pretty clear to me that she was working with the Others to convince Kate that they would kill Sawyer. She is just working them!

Who storms a prison camp with a slingshot??? Oh yeah, someone that believes that all those people with guns are cold blooded killers...that's who!

...on a side note...I also felt that Ben's remarks were that of a father asking about an estranged child. Maybe Ben raised her as his own but they had a falling out?
Certainly another plausible theory...but it just seems to strange to me that they would let us hear her demand to talk to Ben and than have Juliet tell Ben that Alex never asked about her.  It's not like Jack has ever seen or met Alex before. He didn't meet her on the main island last season, he didnt see her in the bushes like Sawyer and Kate did. So there was no deception to be gained by that comment in front of Jack.  It is possible that the two scenes are really unconnected, but I just don't think that's as likely.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: demra on November 09, 2006, 01:26:28 AM
when she was being hauled off she told kate not to believe anything they told her  and that they were going to kill sawyer just like they did her boyfriend
is Karl dead ???

if he shows back up then we will know she ws part of the plan if he is dead then she was on the level with kate
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: YouAllEverybody on November 09, 2006, 01:39:17 AM
Just gonna throw a quick thought in here.. I read somewhere in this thread something to the effect of "who's running the show on the other island..."

I think Mrs. Klugh is, I mean, she seemed pretty authoritative in the whole Michael and Walt episodes, so maybe she's the one taking care of the Lostie's island while Benry is in charge of the whole shabang(unless this Jacob is a real player). That and we haven't been to the lostie's island with the others yet, so this could very well be, yeah?

Huh?..... HUH?
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: DaddyBeast on November 09, 2006, 01:40:04 AM
Good points sparkle!

Alex could have stowed away on a boat/sub to get to Pala.  But what is she doing with a sling-shot against guys with guns and tasers?  Is she really trying to break out Kate and Sawyer?  Where are they going to run to?

She's just a kid, so they don't shoot her (she looks older than the character she is playing), but now she thinks they killed Karl.

Oh, and when Alex says, they're going to kill your boyfriend, how does she know Sawyer is her boyfriend?  Could she have heard they were going to kill Jack?  Alex obviously heard about the plan to kill the boyfriend on the main island somehow.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: debbie on November 09, 2006, 01:52:20 AM
Alex is not trying to fool our losties,she is gona help them :)
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: demra on November 09, 2006, 01:54:41 AM
i hope you are right debbie

that would be great
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: debbie on November 09, 2006, 01:58:44 AM
Demra remember when Alex helped Clair excape?,and when Zeke said bring her out Alex and she wouldnt she had a guy do it for her,you know when Kate got caught
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: demra on November 09, 2006, 02:01:21 AM
yes  she has been stuborn about helping the Others all along  but Juilet did say they took her home andi am assumeing that Home is not on the island they are on now
but i would like to see her get away from the Others and actually tell us SOMETHING
LOL
;D
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: debbie on November 09, 2006, 02:04:26 AM
And get to be back with her mom.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: demra on November 09, 2006, 02:07:47 AM
ya what ever  i want asnwers LOL

just kidding i would like that too but i dont think it wil happen anytime soon
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: Creampop on November 09, 2006, 02:39:15 AM
there are just so many things to weigh out here... Does Alex even know she was kidnapped? I believe she looks at Ben as a father figure.I also believe that this is all part of Ben's plan to get Jack to want to do the surgery. there have been some good points made the most important being, when Karl broke out there was an alarm but when Kate broke out and went to Sawyer there was none. at the same time we can think of the time she spoke with Kate about her dress again no alarm but tonight there was an alarm. why? (set up?) yes she help Claire but we also know Ethan was acting against orders maybe Ben or Jacob if he is him didn't like the fact that the plan wasn't going accordingly. also when she didn't take Kate out your right she didn't but she questioned the hell out of Michael about Claire why? maybe Ben or Jacob wanted to know what was going on with the situation, and after the returned she knocked Michael out with the gun... Like Ben said it's all part of the "bigger plan".
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: WhatThe on November 09, 2006, 10:46:59 AM
I took the "Ben as Alex's father figure" route as well...it would explain why Ben would wonder if she asked about him. And for the record, Alex really did NOT ask about Ben, she demanded to talk TO him...I assumed Ben meant "Did Alex ask about me concerning my operation", not simply "Did Alex ever say my name"...so to that Juliet would be speaking the truth...no, she didn't ask about you. Juliet, however, didn't say "She did, though, come storming the compound with a slingshot demanding to talk to you and telling Kate that we were gonna kill her boyfriend. Kids today, sheesh..."

And yeah, I think the "Alcatraz" island is set up with sleeping arrangements, but I think the main island is where they live...so Alex was taken back "home" to the main island. I also assume that they have more than the one boat they gave Michael.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: jugdish on November 09, 2006, 10:54:06 AM
I took the "Ben as Alex's father figure" route as well...it would explain why Ben would wonder if she asked about him. And for the record, Alex really did NOT ask about Ben, she demanded to talk TO him...I assumed Ben meant "Did Alex ask about me concerning my operation", not simply "Did Alex ever say my name"...so to that Juliet would be speaking the truth...no, she didn't ask about you. Juliet, however, didn't say "She did, though, come storming the compound with a slingshot demanding to talk to you and telling Kate that we were gonna kill her boyfriend. Kids today, sheesh..."

And yeah, I think the "Alcatraz" island is set up with sleeping arrangements, but I think the main island is where they live...so Alex was taken back "home" to the main island. I also assume that they have more than the one boat they gave Michael.

Good post. Her demand to talk to Ben was not one of missing someone. She wanted answers about Karl, not a reunion with surrogate dad.

Also if Karl is still alive it does not mean that Alex is helping the others. She does not know where Karl is and she is suspecting that they killed him, she does not know.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: WhatThe on November 09, 2006, 11:18:15 AM
I took the "Ben as Alex's father figure" route as well...it would explain why Ben would wonder if she asked about him. And for the record, Alex really did NOT ask about Ben, she demanded to talk TO him...I assumed Ben meant "Did Alex ask about me concerning my operation", not simply "Did Alex ever say my name"...so to that Juliet would be speaking the truth...no, she didn't ask about you. Juliet, however, didn't say "She did, though, come storming the compound with a slingshot demanding to talk to you and telling Kate that we were gonna kill her boyfriend. Kids today, sheesh..."

And yeah, I think the "Alcatraz" island is set up with sleeping arrangements, but I think the main island is where they live...so Alex was taken back "home" to the main island. I also assume that they have more than the one boat they gave Michael.

Good post. Her demand to talk to Ben was not one of missing someone. She wanted answers about Karl, not a reunion with surrogate dad.

Also if Karl is still alive it does not mean that Alex is helping the others. She does not know where Karl is and she is suspecting that they killed him, she does not know.

Has it been said why Karl/Carl was in the cage to begin with??...Do we know yet?
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: jugdish on November 09, 2006, 11:20:48 AM
No, but I think he was being punished for something he did. Most likely like Alex was running around and not being part of the program
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: Creflo on November 09, 2006, 05:41:22 PM
It's possible that Alex and some others live on a part of "Alcatraz" that's separate from the work area.  The prisoners working on the grading project are within a protected, secure area that may have some kind of perimeter intrusion detection.  When she tripped the alarm, it may have been because she came in to a secure area, not out of one.

I also believe that Juliet was being deceptive with Ben about this incident, and we are supposed to notice this.  Sure, she didn't technically ask about Ben, but the honest response would've been "she wanted to see you".  This might've prolonged the start of the operation.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: ape on November 09, 2006, 06:59:04 PM
Danielle has lied many times and manipulated whoever she met. When she handed over Ben to Sayid she pointed out that he would lie. Maybe she knows him. (Estranged couples sometimes fire arrows at each other.)

Why should we believe her story about being seven months pregnant on a science ship is any more real than Ben's balloon story?
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: Foxyschic on November 09, 2006, 07:40:43 PM
Danielle has lied many times and manipulated whoever she met. When she handed over Ben to Sayid she pointed out that he would lie. Maybe she knows him. (Estranged couples sometimes fire arrows at each other.)

It makes more sense that Danielle is telling the truth--she has repeatedly told the truth--and that Alex was stolen from her as a baby.  Ben and ___ then possibly raised her. 

What I want to hear is the FIFTH line that no one has yet mentioned.  After Ben asks if Alex has asked about him, and Juliette says no and we took her home, she then said that SHE DOESN'T NOW KNOW WHERE SHE IS. 

Questions from this:
1) Does this mean they DON'T have surveillance everywhere?
2) Does this possibly mean that they sent her back to Danielle (I always assume home is where the parents are...) and not to their little village on Island 1?
3) That it doesn't matter if they monitor her behavior or not--or else they would keep her in lock-down or under surveillance somewhere?

What do you guys think??
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: jugdish on November 09, 2006, 09:33:17 PM
I was interested in that line also. I shows they know less than we think. I do not think she is back with Danielle. She was sent home, but is she at a friends, is she pouting in a coconut tree, at the movies or the mall, Juliette just does not know.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: Foxyschic on November 09, 2006, 10:17:12 PM
Now see? If there's a mall, there is definitely construction equipment.  Or maybe her friend has a convertible and they are cruising to find her a new man!
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: Michelle13 on November 09, 2006, 10:22:33 PM
I don't think the "work area" has surveillance equipment...Alex asked for Ben...so if it were monitored wouldn't Ben know...or is he testing Jules??
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: Foxyschic on November 09, 2006, 10:29:09 PM
Hmmm...that's true.  We haven't seen any screenshots of the construction area.  Wonder if this is because the cameras/TVs were installed in the 1980s. So there is no new wire running to the new sections or developments on the island. 

That would mean that they don't have a way to install more.  Cause it seems like they would have. 

Wonder if the fuzzy screens in the Pearl mean some other hatches have been destroyed in the meantime. Like the Swan (well, not exactly like that...but maybe in other ways).
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: sawsee on November 10, 2006, 01:26:59 AM
It makes sense that Alex left Jack's celldoor open. With all the cameras around, Juliet would have been spotted, or at least suspected.

I thought Alex looked a bit 'wild-eyed' storming the gun-toting crew. I wonder if she, like her mother, has stability issues?
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: PrincessLeia on November 14, 2006, 04:33:38 PM
It makes sense that Alex left Jack's celldoor open. With all the cameras around, Juliet would have been spotted, or at least suspected.

I thought Alex looked a bit 'wild-eyed' storming the gun-toting crew. I wonder if she, like her mother, has stability issues?

I think Danielle's stability issues are related to the trauma of a shipwreck, giving birth on craphole island, her daughter being abducted, watching her team get sick, having to kill them, & then surviving on mystery island alone for 16 years.  I don't her stability issues are hereditary.

Alex hasn't exactly grown up in the healthiest environment, though, so I agree that she may have some stability issues of her own.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: Wishbone on November 14, 2006, 05:21:48 PM
I think Alex is somewhere in between the Losties and the Others. She was saying she wanted to talk to Ben and we all took that to mean that she was angry with him but maybe she is angry with people like Picket etc who are keeping her away from Ben. Juliette told Ben that Alex didn't ask about him but she did ask to speak to him and this info wasn't passed onto Ben - maybe it was a test of the Others by Ben and Alex? I think he may actually be 'one of the good guys' and it might be the others who aren't so good.

I think Alex's boyfriend is Karl but I don't think he's dead - maybe the others are making her believe this and she wants to see Ben to find out the truth.

I also think if it was Alex's voice on the tannoy she must have been helping Ben - or did she really think the door had been left open and no-one was around by coincidence - I don't think she's that naive. I have to say though, I'm not absoluetly sure it was her voice - need to re-watch that bit.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: Creflo on November 17, 2006, 02:45:53 PM
Wow, I learned a new word today.

"The name Tannoy is a syllabic abbreviation of tantalum alloy, which was the material used in a type of electrolytic rectifier developed by the company."

The PA system.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: Wishbone on November 17, 2006, 03:01:43 PM
You never heard tannoy before? - maybe it's a UK thing :)
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: eelpie62 on December 12, 2006, 09:23:59 AM
Quote from: foxyschic
Wonder if the fuzzy screens in the Pearl mean some other hatches have been destroyed in the meantime. Like the Swan (well, not exactly like that...but maybe in other ways).

The blast door map indicated more than one closed or abandoned station.
Title: Re: "How the hell did she get over here"..."I want to talk to Ben"...
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on December 12, 2006, 02:35:27 PM
When Juliet said "I don't know where she is" I took it to mean that she isn't paying attention to Alex's doings.  Or she just wanted to cut the conversation short by anticipating his next question before he had a chance to ask it.