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Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 2 => Episode 2x23 => Topic started by: RedDevils on July 20, 2006, 11:34:22 AM

Title: John Locke Trapped
Post by: RedDevils on July 20, 2006, 11:34:22 AM
I realize this did not take part in the finale, but I feel that it needs to be discussed just the same.  Has anyone ever asked who hot wired the blast doors to trap John Locke?  We saw Desmond and Kelvin perform the little operation that enabled them to create the blacklight map, the crackling of the speakers, the blast doors coming down with no magnetic force at all, all of this happened when Locke was trapped as well.  So the real question is who is it that had intimate knowledge to able to hotwire the hatch and simulate a shutdown?  I for one can only think of three that we know of that were privey to such information...Kelvin...Desmond...and Slivinski (Kelvin's previous partner).  Desmond was accounted for, Kelvin and Slivinski were both presumed dead...so who is left...or who isn't really dead?  Just throwing it out there...
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Ladybug on July 20, 2006, 11:54:27 AM
welcome to the boards!!  i don't think it was a "fake" lockdown.  i think it was a real lockdown because of the food drop.  anyone else have anything to add?
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on July 20, 2006, 12:18:20 PM
welcome to the boards!!  i don't think it was a "fake" lockdown.  i think it was a real lockdown because of the food drop.  anyone else have anything to add?

Howdy Red Devils and welcome to the board!  I agree with LadyBug that in this instance, it was a true lockdown.  Primarily because the black lamp went off, enabling Locke to actually *see* the lockdown map, whereas when the lockdown was manually triggered, no black light was visible.  In Desmond's flashback, we saw Kelvin working on the map, but it was not visible because the blacklight wasn't triggered.  I believe it's only triggered during a true lockdown.  I agree that it probably coincides with the food drop, this being the first food drop that's occurred since our LOSTies got to the island.

Great idea, though!
cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Ladybug on July 20, 2006, 12:32:27 PM
welcome to the boards!!  i don't think it was a "fake" lockdown.  i think it was a real lockdown because of the food drop.  anyone else have anything to add?

Howdy Red Devils and welcome to the board!  I agree with LadyBug that in this instance, it was a true lockdown.  Primarily because the black lamp went off, enabling Locke to actually *see* the lockdown map, whereas when the lockdown was manually triggered, no black light was visible.  In Desmond's flashback, we saw Kelvin working on the map, but it was not visible because the blacklight wasn't triggered.  I believe it's only triggered during a true lockdown.  I agree that it probably coincides with the food drop, this being the first food drop that's occurred since our LOSTies got to the island.

Great idea, though!
cheers
*Des8
i forgot about the black light.  thanks des.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on July 20, 2006, 12:52:57 PM
Sure thing, doll...and congrats on making it to In The Joop!  ;)

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 20, 2006, 01:18:05 PM
welcome to the boards!!  i don't think it was a "fake" lockdown.  i think it was a real lockdown because of the food drop.  anyone else have anything to add?

Howdy Red Devils and welcome to the board!  I agree with LadyBug that in this instance, it was a true lockdown.  Primarily because the black lamp went off, enabling Locke to actually *see* the lockdown map, whereas when the lockdown was manually triggered, no black light was visible.  In Desmond's flashback, we saw Kelvin working on the map, but it was not visible because the blacklight wasn't triggered.  I believe it's only triggered during a true lockdown.  I agree that it probably coincides with the food drop, this being the first food drop that's occurred since our LOSTies got to the island.

Great idea, though!
cheers
*Des8
i forgot about the black light.  thanks des.

I completly agree withDes we all reached this after much discussion.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: RedDevils on July 20, 2006, 03:49:00 PM
Thanks for the replies everyone!  I don't know if I made myself clear in the first post.  I do agree that the blacklight did come on in the midst of a true lockdown...however, lest we forget Locke was under the door long before the blacklights actually came on.  He let Henry out of the cell in order to gain his help to open the door, which was already shut...with no blacklight...therefore someone still must have shorted it out in order to get the doors to shut with no blacklight...so the question remains...who was it?
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: relient k on July 20, 2006, 04:00:47 PM
welcome to the boards!!  i don't think it was a "fake" lockdown.  i think it was a real lockdown because of the food drop.  anyone else have anything to add?

why would they do lockdown for that?
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on July 20, 2006, 04:55:42 PM
Thanks for the replies everyone!  I don't know if I made myself clear in the first post.  I do agree that the blacklight did come on in the midst of a true lockdown...however, lest we forget Locke was under the door long before the blacklights actually came on.  He let Henry out of the cell in order to gain his help to open the door, which was already shut...with no blacklight...therefore someone still must have shorted it out in order to get the doors to shut with no blacklight...so the question remains...who was it?

Red:

During the various fake lockdowns in the past, the black light never came on, we only saw the black light come on once--hence the point above.  I understood where you were going with that, but I'm sorry, I just don't agree with it.

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Ladybug on July 20, 2006, 05:21:44 PM
welcome to the boards!!  i don't think it was a "fake" lockdown.  i think it was a real lockdown because of the food drop.  anyone else have anything to add?

why would they do lockdown for that?
so that those in the hatch can't see where the food is coming from.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on July 20, 2006, 07:41:38 PM
welcome to the boards!!  i don't think it was a "fake" lockdown.  i think it was a real lockdown because of the food drop.  anyone else have anything to add?

why would they do lockdown for that?
so that those in the hatch can't see where the food is coming from.
Lady:
Both GJ and I, and I think maybe Jug agrees if I remember correctly, that the lockdown occurs during the food drop--either to prevent the hatch inhabitant to see who's dropping the food, how, to prevent a distress signal, or perhaps due to the "quarantine" factor.

Of course this is all speculation, but at this point, given the info we have at hand, I think it's pretty solid.

Your thoughts?  You have such great ideas!

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Ladybug on July 20, 2006, 11:22:15 PM
welcome to the boards!!  i don't think it was a "fake" lockdown.  i think it was a real lockdown because of the food drop.  anyone else have anything to add?

why would they do lockdown for that?
so that those in the hatch can't see where the food is coming from.
Lady:
Both GJ and I, and I think maybe Jug agrees if I remember correctly, that the lockdown occurs during the food drop--either to prevent the hatch inhabitant to see who's dropping the food, how, to prevent a distress signal, or perhaps due to the "quarantine" factor.

Of course this is all speculation, but at this point, given the info we have at hand, I think it's pretty solid.

Your thoughts?  You have such great ideas!

cheers
*Des8
i completely agree, it was reliant k who asked why the lockdown occurred.  you can add me to the list of those who agree on why it happens.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: jugdish on July 20, 2006, 11:30:12 PM
Des you correctly included me in your conclusion. I 100% agree. There is no mystery here because no shorted out the system. THe announcement came on saying there will be a lockdown and it occured. Most likely because of the food drop.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 21, 2006, 02:54:05 PM
Des you correctly included me in your conclusion. I 100% agree. There is no mystery here because no shorted out the system. THe announcement came on saying there will be a lockdown and it occured. Most likely because of the food drop.

Exactlyand why it didn't happen when Des and Locke did fake lockdown, doors not all the way down no black lights.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: HurleysGirl on July 21, 2006, 08:59:15 PM
In addition, the shorted out lockdown must be done from the dome.  If I remember correctly, there was NO ONE else in the hatch during the real lockdown which is why Fenry had to crawl through the shaft to get to the dome and push the button.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 22, 2006, 07:33:57 PM
In addition, the shorted out lockdown must be done from the dome.  If I remember correctly, there was NO ONE else in the hatch during the real lockdown which is why Fenry had to crawl through the shaft to get to the dome and push the button.

Exactly! I miss Tara's avatar.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: button pusher on July 24, 2006, 06:28:38 PM
I have to agree on the point that it was an "official" lockdown and not caused by shorting the system, and I think mostly likely that you are right that the lockdown occurred during the food drop, but there is one thing about it all that doesn't have me quite convinced and that's the idea that the black lights only come on during a real lockdown. I tend to believe that Fenry activated the black lights. Here's why... Fenry went through the shaft into the dome. The timer hit zero and the humming started. Then Fenry apparently pushed the button. The humming stopped and then the black lights came on. I think Fenry new about the map... perhaps the others watching from the Pearl. I think he wanted John to see the map. He wanted John to think about the map and eventually find the Pearl... where John would see the orientation video and lose faith in pushing the button...

I believe that the others know all about everything involved with the hatches... Tom in Hunting Party- "When you go to a man's house for the first time, do you take your shoes off, put your feet up on the coffee table. Go into his kitchen and eat his food. Open the doors to rooms you got no business opening (looking directly at Locke on that last statement)" Whether they are DHARMA related or not, the others know what's going on in the hatches. I tend to believe they are DHARMA related, and that by John's going into the hatch he caused a major upset in the operation there...
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Ladybug on July 25, 2006, 11:06:39 AM
i agree button pusher.  (to an extent)  i too think dharma knows EVERYTHING that has gone on in the hatches.  BUT i don't think fenry turned the lights on.  i like the idea that the lights came on to sanitize the hatches.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 25, 2006, 01:47:50 PM
I agree button pussher withever point you made except that the foodropwas real therefore the black lights came on to as Lady bug santize, but santize te poeple who went outside to get the food.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on July 25, 2006, 07:27:44 PM
I agree button pussher withever point you made except that the foodropwas real therefore the black lights came on to as Lady bug santize, but santize te poeple who went outside to get the food.

I like the sanitization idea.

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: button pusher on July 25, 2006, 07:54:43 PM
I hadn't thought a whole lot on the sanitization idea, and it does make sense... except for the timing... if it was meant to sanitize them after going out to collect the food, then why did they come on for 10 seconds before the doors went up... they would have been locked in and not able to go collect the food at that point... I'm not discounting the idea, I'm just trying to put it all together... don't hate me... PLEASE! 
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on July 25, 2006, 08:45:35 PM
I hadn't thought a whole lot on the sanitization idea, and it does make sense... except for the timing... if it was meant to sanitize them after going out to collect the food, then why did they come on for 10 seconds before the doors went up... they would have been locked in and not able to go collect the food at that point... I'm not discounting the idea, I'm just trying to put it all together... don't hate me... PLEASE! 

No, no, nobody hates you; you raise excellent points.  Perhaps it is some sort of quick sanitization before you go outside?  Now that you bring that point up, it still makes sense that the Lockdown occurs when the food drop takes place so there's no shooting down a plane, balloon etc., to get off the island, considering their firepower in the Swan Hatch.

great point there.  thanks for that.
cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 27, 2006, 01:44:57 AM
I hadn't thought a whole lot on the sanitization idea, and it does make sense... except for the timing... if it was meant to sanitize them after going out to collect the food, then why did they come on for 10 seconds before the doors went up... they would have been locked in and not able to go collect the food at that point... I'm not discounting the idea, I'm just trying to put it all together... don't hate me... PLEASE! 

No, no, nobody hates you; you raise excellent points.  Perhaps it is some sort of quick sanitization before you go outside?  Now that you bring that point up, it still makes sense that the Lockdown occurs when the food drop takes place so there's no shooting down a plane, balloon etc., to get off the island, considering their firepower in the Swan Hatch.

great point there.  thanks for that.
cheers
*Des8
no one hates  :) :)you you'll find onthis board we are like a family and we agree to disagree, but you are righg was done for when they came back.KUDOS :) :)
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: button pusher on July 27, 2006, 09:17:44 PM
Oh, I know... I like the debate.

I'm still pondering this... just rewatched Lockdown, and the one question I have now is why didn't John just use the air ducts to get back to the dome instead of risking all that trouble and letting Fenry out... I guess it just wouldn't have made for such a good story.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on July 28, 2006, 05:08:51 AM
Oh, I know... I like the debate.

I'm still pondering this... just rewatched Lockdown, and the one question I have now is why didn't John just use the air ducts to get back to the dome instead of risking all that trouble and letting Fenry out... I guess it just wouldn't have made for such a good story.
Perhaps he had faith in Fenry...

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: button pusher on July 30, 2006, 11:13:05 AM
Need someone to confirm or discount this for me... I rewatched Live Together, Die Alone. Desmond and Locke are in the dome. Desmond becomes convinced that the button needs to be pushed. Locke destroys the computer. Desmond shorts the wires out again to open the blast doors so he can get to the failsafe. They show a shot of Locke as the doors are opening. Is it my imagination, or is it suddenly darker where he is and can you see that the blacklights are on behind him? I'm all but convinced that they are, I just would like someone else to confirm it. This would be the only other instance in the show that we see the blast doors open.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: button pusher on July 30, 2006, 11:38:55 AM
Adding 2 screen captures.

(http://www.eyemdigital.net/images/lost1.jpg)
This one as Desmond is running to open the blast doors

(http://www.eyemdigital.net/images/lost2.jpg)
This one just after he shorts the wires to abort lockdown
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 31, 2006, 03:40:27 PM
Need someone to confirm or discount this for me... I rewatched Live Together, Die Alone. Desmond and Locke are in the dome. Desmond becomes convinced that the button needs to be pushed. Locke destroys the computer. Desmond shorts the wires out again to open the blast doors so he can get to the failsafe. They show a shot of Locke as the doors are opening. Is it my imagination, or is it suddenly darker where he is and can you see that the blacklights are on behind him? I'm all but convinced that they are, I just would like someone else to confirm it. This would be the only other instance in the show that we see the blast doors open.
The black lights never come on only came on in epsidoe Lockdown when food dropwas made only time.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: RedDevils on July 31, 2006, 11:37:19 PM
On board with the whole food drop activating the lock down...do we think this was timed by a computer, or someone had to manually activate the lockdown before the food drop occured...maybe from the airplane that the food was dropped from?  If that could have happened, that means someone somewhere could have ultimate control about what happened within all the hatches.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: jugdish on August 02, 2006, 08:36:52 PM
I like your theory of a distant activation of the lockdown. I assumed that it was a timed thing, like every 6 months at this time the lockdown occurs. But it does make sense that since the place was being watched, someone could activate the lockdown when the desired.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on August 03, 2006, 01:07:34 PM
On board with the whole food drop activating the lock down...do we think this was timed by a computer, or someone had to manually activate the lockdown before the food drop occured...maybe from the airplane that the food was dropped from?  If that could have happened, that means someone somewhere could have ultimate control about what happened within all the hatches.
More importantly would havev the power to remove electric magentic field that hid thei sland from even god.......
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: jugdish on August 04, 2006, 01:32:44 AM
That would be wild. Some outside person controlling the whole island.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on August 10, 2006, 01:34:48 PM
That would be wild. Some outside person controlling the whole island.

not all that far fetched.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: jugdish on August 10, 2006, 02:06:38 PM
What are you saying GJ. Do you have some inside information?? Remember this is a non spoiler thread. ;D
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on August 10, 2006, 02:18:25 PM
What are you saying GJ. Do you have some inside information?? Remember this is a non spoiler thread. ;D

No none at all just would be far fetched like the idea that they are(not really spoilers but playing it safe)
1)
Spoiler
living in a snow globe

 2)
Spoiler
living inside the earth
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: jugdish on August 10, 2006, 02:22:15 PM
I thought the producers dismissed the first one.

I don't like either of those. I want a somewhat quasi-scientifical and conspiracy based reason.
Title: Re: John Locke Trapped
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on August 10, 2006, 02:40:27 PM
I thought the producers dismissed the first one.

I don't like either of those. I want a somewhat quasi-scientifical and conspiracy based reason.

Oh so do I so do I first one based on book that was dismissed but remerging that'swhyon my rant under your new yopic iaksed can we repost fornewcomers that this book not offical trying to be careful here as spoiler free, and second one ,  no no even I don't want that one.
The thing about time bothers me too.