Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 2 => Episode 2x23 => Topic started by: buzmeg on May 29, 2006, 10:51:42 AM

Title: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: buzmeg on May 29, 2006, 10:51:42 AM
 I love this show, but some things are driving me nuts!!

1) Okay, Locke, Eko, and maybe Desmond may have been blown to smithereens, and Charlie sits at the campfire and holds hands? Nobody's frantically searching for these three? What, did everybody get into another chunk of Charlie's stash?

2) Sayid is going to signal that he's in place with black smoke? What, the Others are all blind? Black smoke is a common occurrence on the beaches? What sense did this make?

3) Jack thinks he can control all things that may happen as he sets out with Michael. Yet he doesn't inform Hurley, Kate, or Sawyer? What blessed sense does that make? I can see keeping Hurley in the dark, but Kate and Sawyer? This is a stretch---

I find it hard to believe that, as a matter of sanity and survival, people wouldn't all get together say, every two days, and run down what's been going on and who's feeling how in a big group meeting. This compartmentalization of information is too unnatural and drives much of the plot. It blows the credibility. No marooned group would actually act like this given all the dangers.


Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: Zeke on May 29, 2006, 12:28:43 PM
1) No-one/very few people knew that Locke and co were in the hatch and Charlie is still recovering from being blown up from the dynamite so for the time being let him worry about him.
2)Thats a good point but the others dont know that the losties have a boat so as far they're concerned the smoke could be anything from a forest fire to our friend the smoke monster...thing
3)i wouldnt have told sawyer because sawyer acts before he thinks and probably would have shot micheal at the first chance and i wouldnt have told kate because as soon as Sawyer  finds out that this is between jack and kate hes gonna think that they're still "caught in a net" and on  this kinds of a mission you need everyone to have their minds souly on the job.

Anyway thats my thoughts on your points
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: demra on May 29, 2006, 12:56:23 PM
I love this show, but some things are driving me nuts!!

1) Okay, Locke, Eko, and maybe Desmond may have been blown to smithereens, and Charlie sits at the campfire and holds hands? Nobody's frantically searching for these three? What, did everybody get into another chunk of Charlie's stash?

2) Sayid is going to signal that he's in place with black smoke? What, the Others are all blind? Black smoke is a common occurrence on the beaches? What sense did this make?

3) Jack thinks he can control all things that may happen as he sets out with Michael. Yet he doesn't inform Hurley, Kate, or Sawyer? What blessed sense does that make? I can see keeping Hurley in the dark, but Kate and Sawyer? This is a stretch---

I find it hard to believe that, as a matter of sanity and survival, people wouldn't all get together say, every two days, and run down what's been going on and who's feeling how in a big group meeting. This compartmentalization of information is too unnatural and drives much of the plot. It blows the credibility. No marooned group would actually act like this given all the dangers.




1 Nun of the redshirts  ever go looking for anyone ever
2 What else is Sayid going to use to signal Jack and Co ?
3 No one ever talks about what the plan is especially if it might get some one killed
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: Zeke on May 29, 2006, 12:59:45 PM
Quote
3 No one ever talks about what the plan is especially if it might get some one killed

No-one ever talks full stop!
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: AmazonMonkey on May 29, 2006, 01:01:39 PM

I find it hard to believe that, as a matter of sanity and survival, people wouldn't all get together say, every two days, and run down what's been going on and who's feeling how in a big group meeting. This compartmentalization of information is too unnatural and drives much of the plot. It blows the credibility. No marooned group would actually act like this given all the dangers.


I don't mean to sound like a pessemist.... but How real is that?  If you do that in real life then you one of few... I think is speaks very well of people in real life... we all keep things to ourselves, rarely communicate, and are selfish by nature (in fact even 'good deed doers' are selfish because they do it to make themselves feel good).    I think its very real, and very credible.  Especially in a setting where you have been on an island for two months with people dying, and creepy things happening all over the place.   There are in fend for yourself mode.  On a good day in Smalltown, USA there is still lack of communication on this level, with people we know and love... stick that on a island with strangers... I doubt they will have family meetings meettings, or core dump on each other once every couple days.  
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: demra on May 29, 2006, 01:05:10 PM
Quote
3 No one ever talks about what the plan is especially if it might get some one killed

No-one ever talks full stop!

Sorry if i sounded harsh  I was just trying to keep it simple and to the point 
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: davf0 on May 29, 2006, 01:45:30 PM
hey i think amazon monkey is right its not a documentary about real life and i live in london and generally(maybe is just us english) we talk to each other unless we know them already or totally have to!
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: buzmeg on May 29, 2006, 02:28:38 PM

I find it hard to believe that, as a matter of sanity and survival, people wouldn't all get together say, every two days, and run down what's been going on and who's feeling how in a big group meeting. This compartmentalization of information is too unnatural and drives much of the plot. It blows the credibility. No marooned group would actually act like this given all the dangers.


I don't mean to sound like a pessemist.... but How real is that?  If you do that in real life then you one of few... I think is speaks very well of people in real life... we all keep things to ourselves, rarely communicate, and are selfish by nature (in fact even 'good deed doers' are selfish because they do it to make themselves feel good).    I think its very real, and very credible.  Especially in a setting where you have been on an island for two months with people dying, and creepy things happening all over the place.   There are in fend for yourself mode.  On a good day in Smalltown, USA there is still lack of communication on this level, with people we know and love... stick that on a island with strangers... I doubt they will have family meetings meettings, or core dump on each other once every couple days. 

A small group of people living(?) on an island in survival mode and you don't think they should or would be communicating with each other? This is a life & death situation, not a two week vacation at Club Med.
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: demra on May 29, 2006, 02:38:58 PM
DOn't feel like you are alone in your frustration about our Losties not talking to each other

we all feel the same way
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 29, 2006, 03:05:35 PM
Oh don't we ever.We have so many ideas for them all to get together and TALK they could start by going to look for Eko,Locke,and Desmond. :)
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: buzmeg on May 29, 2006, 03:16:24 PM
Oh don't we ever.We have so many ideas for them all to get together and TALK they could start by going to look for Eko,Locke,and Desmond. :)
Exactly one of the points of my original post that is making me NUTZ.

I realize this is all fiction but some things a too far fetched from what a real survival situation might present.
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: demra on May 29, 2006, 03:22:31 PM
Charlie did give them the impression that the 3 were alright
so amybe they don't thin kthat they need to look for them

they also don't know that the 4 of them were in the hatch when the event happened
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: buzmeg on May 29, 2006, 03:43:00 PM
Charlie did give them the impression that the 3 were alright
so amybe they don't thin kthat they need to look for them
they also don't know that the 4 of them were in the hatch when the event happened
In my life's experiences, I would think that if something unusual and possibly life threatening had occurred, the next step would be to gather everyone together, perform a head count, then proceed to evaluate the situation and seek out the missing persons. It's called damage control.

These people are sitting around like they are having a backyard barbecue.
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 29, 2006, 04:01:58 PM
Quote
In my life's experiences, I would think that if something unusual and possibly life threatening had occurred, the next step would be to gather everyone together, perform a head count, then proceed to evaluate the situation and seek out the missing persons. It's called damage control.

Exactly  they just  saw the sky turn white violet heard a loud noise that hurt their ears, and no one compares notes,does a head count asks if everyone is all right.
There is a thread on this site called what proudcers are not allowed to do.You may want to check it out. ;) ;)
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: AmazonMonkey on May 29, 2006, 04:19:36 PM
Sure it would be nice, and maybe even more productive for them to talk, but look at what we know of their past... MANY of them have secrets, why would they start talking now?  "You run, I Con, Tiger don't change his stripes."   All I am saying is I think its very real, and there are many people that would be the same way, even in a survival situation.  I am not trying to say anyone is right or wrong here I am just saying how I feel and how I perceive the characters.
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: WhatThe on May 29, 2006, 04:28:58 PM
Sure it would be nice, and maybe even more productive for them to talk, but look at what we know of their past... MANY of them have secrets, why would they start talking now?  "You run, I Con, Tiger don't change his stripes."   All I am saying is I think its very real, and there are many people that would be the same way, even in a survival situation.  I am not trying to say anyone is right or wrong here I am just saying how I feel and how I perceive the characters.
I live in California. I've been through some pretty damaging earthquakes. The one thing that I notice is that when something of a disaster happens everyone who lives near or around you suddenly breaks down their "walls" and EVERYONE becomes supportive of one another. We all talk, constantly, nonstop. Someone hears a new piece of news, it gets passed onto everyone else, if for no other reason than it's "gossip" about the situation. I've never, EVER, seen people cluster into their own small, individual camps and keep secrets and lie to each other. Just the opposite.

Obviously the writers for Lost feel their storyline will propel forward better if this group of people constantly lie and keep secrets. But it's in no way because that's what people do in disastrous situations.
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: AmazonMonkey on May 29, 2006, 04:41:52 PM
Sure it would be nice, and maybe even more productive for them to talk, but look at what we know of their past... MANY of them have secrets, why would they start talking now?  "You run, I Con, Tiger don't change his stripes."   All I am saying is I think its very real, and there are many people that would be the same way, even in a survival situation.  I am not trying to say anyone is right or wrong here I am just saying how I feel and how I perceive the characters.
I live in California. I've been through some pretty damaging earthquakes. The one thing that I notice is that when something of a disaster happens everyone who lives near or around you suddenly breaks down their "walls" and EVERYONE becomes supportive of one another. We all talk, constantly, nonstop. Someone hears a new piece of news, it gets passed onto everyone else, if for no other reason than it's "gossip" about the situation. I've never, EVER, seen people cluster into their own small, individual camps and keep secrets and lie to each other. Just the opposite.

Obviously the writers for Lost feel their storyline will propel forward better if this group of people constantly lie and keep secrets. But it's in no way because that's what people do in disastrous situations.

I am sorry you had to have to go through that in order to know that is how people react... But I am sure there were still things people didn't know, people that kept secrets.   I am not saying you and your neighborhood did...but there are many differwnt personalities.   I am sure too that people on your stree were not Con Men, Doctors who lost their edge, A girl on the run, a Iraqi Torurist, and Crazy overwirhght guy who nobody likes, killed two people, went crazy, and then won the lottery... a man who agreed to become a murder for the love of his life so he could be with his love... but ruined that in the making... there are all kinds of reasons these people are keeping secrets.   I am a pesemist... I am not saying there are not people that band together (look at how all the reshirst banded together, I am sure they are talking), but where not watching those poeple.
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: WhatThe on May 29, 2006, 04:52:53 PM
Sure it would be nice, and maybe even more productive for them to talk, but look at what we know of their past... MANY of them have secrets, why would they start talking now?  "You run, I Con, Tiger don't change his stripes."   All I am saying is I think its very real, and there are many people that would be the same way, even in a survival situation.  I am not trying to say anyone is right or wrong here I am just saying how I feel and how I perceive the characters.
I live in California. I've been through some pretty damaging earthquakes. The one thing that I notice is that when something of a disaster happens everyone who lives near or around you suddenly breaks down their "walls" and EVERYONE becomes supportive of one another. We all talk, constantly, nonstop. Someone hears a new piece of news, it gets passed onto everyone else, if for no other reason than it's "gossip" about the situation. I've never, EVER, seen people cluster into their own small, individual camps and keep secrets and lie to each other. Just the opposite.

Obviously the writers for Lost feel their storyline will propel forward better if this group of people constantly lie and keep secrets. But it's in no way because that's what people do in disastrous situations.

I am sorry you had to have to go through that in order to know that is how people react... But I am sure there were still things people didn't know, people that kept secrets.   I am not saying you and your neighborhood did...but there are many differwnt personalities.   I am sure too that people on your stree were not Con Men, Doctors who lost their edge, A girl on the run, a Iraqi Torurist, and Crazy overwirhght guy who nobody likes, killed two people, went crazy, and then won the lottery... a man who agreed to become a murder for the love of his life so he could be with his love... but ruined that in the making... there are all kinds of reasons these people are keeping secrets.   I am a pesemist... I am not saying there are not people that band together (look at how all the reshirst banded together, I am sure they are talking), but where not watching those poeple.

Not when it came to the disaster itself. One reason we told everything we heard or discovered is because we wanted to know everything that everyone else heard and discovered as well. You instinctively know that information never flows one way, you encourage others telling you what they know by telling others what you know. Anything that would help us get through it. Seriously, they aren't reacting even remotely how people would act in a situation like surviving a plane crash together. Once you get your barings, you become closer out of an instinct for survival if nothing else. It would have been more realistic if the first season showed the survivors constantly sharing information and not keeping things from one another, and then slowly returning to their "civilized" selves by keeping important things from one another and lying to each other. But the show had them doing so right off the bat.

And that's the thing about disasters...there ARE no "con men", "iraqi soldiers", "fugitives on the run", "millionare lottery winners", etc, etc. All those identities fall by the wayside because those identities no longer hold any value or relevance. On Gilligan's Island the fact that Thurston Howell is a multi millionaire may have mattered lol...but in a more realistic portrayal like Lost the fact that Hurley is a multimillionaire is, at best, a mild curiosity to say "hmm" to.
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: buzmeg on May 29, 2006, 04:55:30 PM
Sure it would be nice, and maybe even more productive for them to talk, but look at what we know of their past... MANY of them have secrets, why would they start talking now?  "You run, I Con, Tiger don't change his stripes."   All I am saying is I think its very real, and there are many people that would be the same way, even in a survival situation.  I am not trying to say anyone is right or wrong here I am just saying how I feel and how I perceive the characters.
I live in California. I've been through some pretty damaging earthquakes. The one thing that I notice is that when something of a disaster happens everyone who lives near or around you suddenly breaks down their "walls" and EVERYONE becomes supportive of one another. We all talk, constantly, nonstop. Someone hears a new piece of news, it gets passed onto everyone else, if for no other reason than it's "gossip" about the situation. I've never, EVER, seen people cluster into their own small, individual camps and keep secrets and lie to each other. Just the opposite.

Obviously the writers for Lost feel their storyline will propel forward better if this group of people constantly lie and keep secrets. But it's in no way because that's what people do in disastrous situations.

I am sorry you had to have to go through that in order to know that is how people react... But I am sure there were still things people didn't know, people that kept secrets.   I am not saying you and your neighborhood did...but there are many differwnt personalities.   I am sure too that people on your stree were not Con Men, Doctors who lost their edge, A girl on the run, a Iraqi Torurist, and Crazy overwirhght guy who nobody likes, killed two people, went crazy, and then won the lottery... a man who agreed to become a murder for the love of his life so he could be with his love... but ruined that in the making... there are all kinds of reasons these people are keeping secrets.   I am a pesemist... I am not saying there are not people that band together (look at how all the reshirst banded together, I am sure they are talking), but where not watching those poeple.

I won't belabor the point. My one final comment is that even though these people have "pasts" they are now in a situation totally common to each other. It's survival, and IMHO this is not how human beings would act toward each other given this tragic event.

BTW: Did I miss something? I've never heard anyone referred to as "redshirts." Who are they?
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: AmazonMonkey on May 29, 2006, 05:01:51 PM
Sure it would be nice, and maybe even more productive for them to talk, but look at what we know of their past... MANY of them have secrets, why would they start talking now?  "You run, I Con, Tiger don't change his stripes."   All I am saying is I think its very real, and there are many people that would be the same way, even in a survival situation.  I am not trying to say anyone is right or wrong here I am just saying how I feel and how I perceive the characters.
I live in California. I've been through some pretty damaging earthquakes. The one thing that I notice is that when something of a disaster happens everyone who lives near or around you suddenly breaks down their "walls" and EVERYONE becomes supportive of one another. We all talk, constantly, nonstop. Someone hears a new piece of news, it gets passed onto everyone else, if for no other reason than it's "gossip" about the situation. I've never, EVER, seen people cluster into their own small, individual camps and keep secrets and lie to each other. Just the opposite.

Obviously the writers for Lost feel their storyline will propel forward better if this group of people constantly lie and keep secrets. But it's in no way because that's what people do in disastrous situations.

I am sorry you had to have to go through that in order to know that is how people react... But I am sure there were still things people didn't know, people that kept secrets.   I am not saying you and your neighborhood did...but there are many differwnt personalities.   I am sure too that people on your stree were not Con Men, Doctors who lost their edge, A girl on the run, a Iraqi Torurist, and Crazy overwirhght guy who nobody likes, killed two people, went crazy, and then won the lottery... a man who agreed to become a murder for the love of his life so he could be with his love... but ruined that in the making... there are all kinds of reasons these people are keeping secrets.   I am a pesemist... I am not saying there are not people that band together (look at how all the reshirst banded together, I am sure they are talking), but where not watching those poeple.

Not when it came to the disaster itself. One reason we told everything we heard or discovered is because we wanted to know everything that everyone else heard and discovered as well. You instinctively know that information never flows one way, you encourage others telling you what they know by telling others what you know. Anything that would help us get through it. Seriously, they aren't reacting even remotely how people would act in a situation like surviving a plane crash together. Once you get your barings, you become closer out of an instinct for survival if nothing else. It would have been more realistic if the first season showed the survivors constantly sharing information and not keeping things from one another, and then slowly returning to their "civilized" selves by keeping important things from one another and lying to each other. But the show had them doing so right off the bat.

And that's the thing about disasters...there ARE no "con men", "iraqi soldiers", "fugitives on the run", "millionare lottery winners", etc, etc. All those identities fall by the wayside because those identities no longer hold any value or relevance. On Gilligan's Island the fact that Thurston Howell is a multi millionaire may have mattered lol...but in a more realistic portrayal like Lost the fact that Hurley is a multimillionaire is, at best, a mild curiosity to say "hmm" to.

I am glad your passionate about it and that you have a good eperience, I can't say I know anything about it.  I am just being a devils advocate and can't substantiate what I say.  Thanks for sharing your experience.
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: jugdish on May 29, 2006, 05:41:48 PM
Just a party yesterday talking lost and I had to go on the Why dosen't people talk to each other rant? I love the show but this drives me nuts and at some point may turn me off. It is just unrealistic that these people would not discuss the events of craphole island.

i think it is something the should address next season
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 29, 2006, 06:11:16 PM
I completley agree,if they don't have their communal bonfire sing a few bars of Kum Baya,and discuss things soon in season 3,may lose me too. 
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: jugdish on May 29, 2006, 07:37:52 PM
It really needs to be done early in season 3 to get us to shut up about it? :)
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: AmazonMonkey on May 29, 2006, 08:43:24 PM
It really needs to be done early in season 3 to get us to shut up about it? :)

I am going to miss you guys... ;)
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: jugdish on May 29, 2006, 09:58:29 PM
I'll find something else once they do the big pow wow.
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: HurleysGirl on May 31, 2006, 04:22:51 PM

I live in California. I've been through some pretty damaging earthquakes. The one thing that I notice is that when something of a disaster happens everyone who lives near or around you suddenly breaks down their "walls" and EVERYONE becomes supportive of one another. We all talk, constantly, nonstop. Someone hears a new piece of news, it gets passed onto everyone else, if for no other reason than it's "gossip" about the situation. I've never, EVER, seen people cluster into their own small, individual camps and keep secrets and lie to each other. Just the opposite.

Obviously the writers for Lost feel their storyline will propel forward better if this group of people constantly lie and keep secrets. But it's in no way because that's what people do in disastrous situations.

Same here after Katrina.  Even though many of us were out of town, the communication between neighbors and even total strangers was amazing.

Slight digression:  When I lived in Los Angeles, we  had a small earthquake one morning.  Right after, my phone rang.  I answered and a man said "Are you OK?"  I said "Who is this?"  He said "Isn't this XXX?, I was looking for my wife to find out if she's ok."  I said, "I think you have the wrong number, you  should try and call her again."  He paused for a second and said "OK, but are you alright?"  I still smile when I think of that.
Title: Re: Making me NUTZ!
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on June 04, 2006, 11:12:44 PM
I too live in CA and the 1989 earthquake still fresh in my mind.Everyone looked out for everyone lse.I had no TV  just a llttle battery radio,my aunt was calling me from Virginia wiht  updates people do talk except on this island.