Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 2 => Episode 2x23 => Topic started by: BurkRoyer on May 25, 2006, 05:45:41 PM

Title: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 25, 2006, 05:45:41 PM
That's a heck a lot of cansisters and notebooks...  All handwritten... Talk about major carpal tunnel syndrome!!!  I hope Dharma provided a good health care plan...
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Goldmund on May 25, 2006, 07:32:15 PM
It looked like years worth atleast. Season three will hopefully clue us in on pre-crash happenings.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 25, 2006, 08:18:36 PM
And let'shope they are biodegradable
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: jugdish on May 25, 2006, 08:24:10 PM
They must have a lot of money to spend on craphole island. You would think that they would just empty them and return then to the Pearl. Who buys that many cannisters.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 25, 2006, 08:50:26 PM
Who knows jugdish they seemtoahve a big budgetbut seriously were thye enver ever red now that is arat in amze game.Thye would make great land fill on the enviornmentally friendly island.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Gelotripsy on May 26, 2006, 01:14:10 AM
We use a tube system in my hospital to send messages and specimens. Some of us call it the "suck and blow". Anyway, I found that scene hysterical because I have secretly thought that's what really is happening to our cannisters when some department says that they never recieved an order or specimen.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: AlwaysLOST4ever on May 26, 2006, 01:22:13 AM
We use a tube system in my hospital to send messages and specimens. Some of us call it the "suck and blow". Anyway, I found that scene hysterical because I have secretly thought that's what really is happening to our cannisters when some department says that they never recieved an order or specimen.

Love it!

The whole "dumping the cannisters in the middle of a field" certainly contradicts Locke's assumption that they go back to headquarters.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Austruck on May 26, 2006, 03:49:46 PM
...and it backs up Desmond's own assertion that the Hatch 2 people were the experiment, NOT the Hatch 1 people!

How ironic that Locke had it backwards: The button-pushing in Hatch 1 IS important. The note-taking in Hatch 2 is a sociological experiment.

Nice touch. :)
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: psychoag98 on May 26, 2006, 03:58:09 PM
I'm curious.  If the "Hatch 2" (Pearl) people are the experiment, what exactly IS the experiment?  Handwriting analysis? 

With Swan Hatch, it makes sense that they could have been trying to see if people will keep pushing the button out of fear of what could happen.

But what would be the experiment of having two people watch other people pushing a button that actually needs to be pushed?
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Austruck on May 26, 2006, 04:03:22 PM
I thought it would be a similar psychological experiment. See how long these people will keep watching the other folks and keep filling up those notebooks with notes and sending those notebooks up the tube without any feedback from anyone that what they're doing has value.

Really, the same experiment.

And, we *do* see that the tubes get purposely dumped into nowhere. In this one episode we learn that Hatch 1 has meaning and Hatch 2 might not.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Austruck on May 26, 2006, 04:04:30 PM
Sorry about the double-post. Wanted to add this: When I was in college I participated in some experiments in the psych department (for modest amounts of money), and yes, one of them was a pointless exercise in which they were trying to see how long we'd do some otherwise meaningless task simply because we were told to.

Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: mollyh on May 26, 2006, 04:07:57 PM
Austruck: Please elborate about the experiment. Thanks!
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: psychoag98 on May 26, 2006, 04:08:23 PM
I agree that would make sense if BOTH hatches were fake, but if the need to push the button is a real scientific one, why muddle it with a psychology experiment?

For example, if the whole thing was a psych experiment, I could see them setting up one group to see if they would keep pushing the button, and a second to see how long they would keep recording the data.  But if the first group was NOT an experiment, which it seems it wasn't, why go to a scientific site that deals with intense electromagnetism and set up your psychology experiment there?  It doesn't seem a single group would be interested in both an electro magnetic energy project and a psychology experiment.

Just my take.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: eYeBall on May 26, 2006, 04:16:45 PM
I thought it would be a similar psychological experiment. See how long these people will keep watching the other folks and keep filling up those notebooks with notes and sending those notebooks up the tube without any feedback from anyone that what they're doing has value.

Really, the same experiment.

And, we *do* see that the tubes get purposely dumped into nowhere. In this one episode we learn that Hatch 1 has meaning and Hatch 2 might not.


There could have been a station or a retrieval system at the end of the tube at one time, but like the some of the rest of the island it fell in to disrepair, was moved or destroyed.  It still could have been a research experiment though, but the information and knowledge gained would have had some value to someone and so I fell like there at one time had to be someone getting the filled-out notebooks.  The pearl would have been a very strategic location and seemed to have been used recently before the intrusion of Locke and Eko.  Maybe the chain of all the experiments broke down and at one time all the stations had a real meaning and served a real function?
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: AmazonMonkey on May 26, 2006, 10:07:50 PM

Maybe someone already said this, but those tube systems work on vaccum and to create the vaccum it has to be a sealed (air tight) system.  The tube that came out if the ground was open ended and therefore would not be a vaccum.  I am either being too anal or someone didn't do their homework.  
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: psychoag98 on May 26, 2006, 11:04:05 PM
HAHAHA!!  That's a great point, Amazon.  I'm guessing there is a writer oversight on this one and not that it is a clue, but a great point nonetheless...
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: scrod on May 26, 2006, 11:32:05 PM

Maybe someone already said this, but those tube systems work on vaccum and to create the vaccum it has to be a sealed (air tight) system.  The tube that came out if the ground was open ended and therefore would not be a vaccum.  I am either being too anal or someone didn't do their homework.  
One of my great frustrations is the seemingly sloppy attention to basic laws of physics, medicine et al.  I mean I will voluntarily suspend belief for weird stuff (like a plane breaking up at 40,000 feet and lots of people surviving) but some of this other stuff makes no sense.

If it came out of the side of a cliff, at least you could assume gravity made them drop past the suction point, but nto the case here.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: eYeBall on May 27, 2006, 12:44:03 AM
I looked at a screen shot from the episode and found that the tube is sealed on the end.


Clickie (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4708/2679/1600/tubefault.jpg)
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: OLLY-wood on May 27, 2006, 12:54:07 AM
I looked at a screen shot from the episode and found that the tube is sealed on the end.


Clickie (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4708/2679/1600/tubefault.jpg)

nice find! I wouldn't necessarily say "sealed" though... maybe it's lightly hinged in a way that it closes back after something passes through it???
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: andersinlost on May 27, 2006, 05:55:14 AM
I think that either the Hanso foundation have either taken a huge risk and messed it up big time (they are only human) or theres something else at work. No-one in there right mind would set up a incredibly important station that potentially affects every living thing on the island (or the world but we dont know that) and then set up another one that says its not important! If id found the pearl hatch and saw the video i would have stopped pushing the button, iv just been told what i do is not important (even though it is) im not gonna carry on!
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: ragedBR on May 27, 2006, 11:40:59 AM
Hmmm, when I first watched the final episode I thought that the canisters were dumped in the right place, but there wasn't anyone there anymore to collect them and read them. Maybe the so called "headquarters" got blown up or it was a "mobile" station. I didn't think that either station were just for psychological experiment...

But if you really look it, there were LOTS of cannisters, years worth of them, so it's possible that the notebooks served no purpose, as the station #2 had no purpose either.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: sam_i_am on May 27, 2006, 12:22:49 PM
I don'tknow if I'm being to harsh about this or something... but there is no way there were 34 years worth of canisters there. If they filled those books with every single thing they saw, they'd fill up a book in less then a week. 52 books a year means 1178 note books (give or take a couple, becuase we know Dharma hasn't been running for some time (I'll say 3-8 years, from what we know of Desmond and Kelvin). After the subtraction, that's 762 books, which still seems like too many. I don't know. If someone could get me a screen shot of the pile of canisters, that would be great.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: ragedBR on May 27, 2006, 12:32:07 PM
Before the plane crash, the swan station would have only one or two inhabitants, which means there isn't that much stuff to record.
I would think they'd fill like a notebook per month.. The pile of canisters were huge, there are screenshots going around on the boards, I would think that they could have there at least 10-20years worth of canisters and notebooks.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: sam_i_am on May 27, 2006, 01:14:08 PM
Maybe Dharma did pick note books up. I remember something on the blast doors about "Every 6 - 8 months". Now i know the general theory is this meant food drops, but what if, at some point, this is when Dharma came to collect anything? Just a thought.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: FallenAngel on May 27, 2006, 05:14:07 PM
What I myself am curious about is who was in the pearl watching them and what ever happened to them?
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Bones on May 27, 2006, 06:04:24 PM
52 books a year means 1178 note books (give or take a couple, becuase we know Dharma hasn't been running for some time (I'll say 3-8 years, from what we know of Desmond and Kelvin). After the subtraction, that's 762 books, which still seems like too many.

The producers said the cigarette on the tray was smoking.  So even if Dharma hasn't been working...someone was there.

Andersinlost - I agree about the pearl station.  I would totally have stopped pushing the button too.  Maybe Dharma isn't so concerned with public safety and is more concerned with human responses to stimuli...even if those responses amount to murder (Michael) and huge EM catastrophes.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: AmazonMonkey on May 27, 2006, 08:36:28 PM
52 books a year means 1178 note books (give or take a couple, becuase we know Dharma hasn't been running for some time (I'll say 3-8 years, from what we know of Desmond and Kelvin). After the subtraction, that's 762 books, which still seems like too many.

The producers said the cigarette on the tray was smoking.  So even if Dharma hasn't been working...someone was there.

Andersinlost - I agree about the pearl station.  I would totally have stopped pushing the button too.  Maybe Dharma isn't so concerned with public safety and is more concerned with human responses to stimuli...even if those responses amount to murder (Michael) and huge EM catastrophes.


Not to mention that hatch was locked from the outside... so clearly there are other ways to to in and out of that hatch.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: jugdish on May 28, 2006, 03:00:59 AM
You are assuming that the person smoking the cig was there at the same "time" as eko and locke. Oh sorry was not suppose to mention time manipulation. (it would explain how if there was no other door)
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Maxor127 on May 28, 2006, 03:58:16 AM
I'm having a hard time accepting any theories about the Pearl hatch and the cannisters.  It doesn't make any sense to have a fake experiment in a hidden hatch covered by a question mark.  And the cannisters get sent to nowhere and somehow the hatch gets refilled with cannisters instead of using the old ones.  I mean, if it were an experiment, wouldn't they still want to study what people are writing down and wouldn't they at least have some cost-effective dispenser instead of dumping them in the middle of nowhere?  They're going to have a hard time explaining this one.  If it was an experiment and the cannisters did go somewhere at some point, then why was the site moved or destroyed and why weren't whoever was in the hatch notified?  That's another thing... they don't have phones on the island in these Dharma hatches?  And how does a computer survive in an area of such erratic and strong magnetism?
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: sam_i_am on May 28, 2006, 11:30:28 AM
Here's my question about the Pearl. Why were there cameras inside of it? Who was watching them?
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: AmazonMonkey on May 28, 2006, 11:48:28 AM
You are assuming that the person smoking the cig was there at the same "time" as eko and locke. Oh sorry was not suppose to mention time manipulation. (it would explain how if there was no other door)

So its a time travelling cigarette?  No no the cigarette is the Monster... wait wrong thread.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: OLLY-wood on May 28, 2006, 06:59:15 PM
You are assuming that the person smoking the cig was there at the same "time" as eko and locke. Oh sorry was not suppose to mention time manipulation. (it would explain how if there was no other door)

So its a time travelling cigarette?  No no the cigarette is the Monster... wait wrong thread.

cigarette... smoke... oh no....
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 28, 2006, 09:10:45 PM
Here's my question about the Pearl. Why were there cameras inside of it? Who was watching them?
That'sthe big question as no one read what they were writing.And how come no one noticed the cameras in the Swan Desmond was there for three years.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: demra on May 28, 2006, 09:14:21 PM
just to clear up the  though t that  the tube has to be air tigh t
the canister create the seal ( think of the drive up window at a bank )

My question is how did Lockes map get through the tube with out being in a canister

Oh and I did say that they would find it 
1 for the " Good Guys "  LOL
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 28, 2006, 10:04:57 PM
Yes you did say they would find it,good call maybe air presure  was so strong in tube.We got to letsome things slide we are talking about this really weird island with polar bears, monsters, magnetic foces, underground hatches, need I go on ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: OLLY-wood on May 29, 2006, 12:46:53 AM
Yes you did say they would find it,good call maybe air presure  was so strong in tube.We got to letsome things slide we are talking about this really weird island with polar bears, monsters, magnetic foces, underground hatches, need I go on ;) ;) ;)

second truest thing ever said on this board
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: demra on May 29, 2006, 02:06:37 AM
Yes you did say they would find it,good call maybe air presure  was so strong in tube.We got to letsome things slide we are talking about this really weird island with polar bears, monsters, magnetic foces, underground hatches, need I go on ;) ;) ;)

second truest thing ever said on this board

True true my friend I do think that we are over analizing some aspects of the show
But i still think that it all has to do with time traveling clones from the future past

LOl
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: OLLY-wood on May 29, 2006, 02:28:39 AM
Yes you did say they would find it,good call maybe air presure  was so strong in tube.We got to letsome things slide we are talking about this really weird island with polar bears, monsters, magnetic foces, underground hatches, need I go on ;) ;) ;)

second truest thing ever said on this board

True true my friend I do think that we are over analizing some aspects of the show
But i still think that it all has to do with time traveling clones from the future past

LOl

who do drugs and commit incest...
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: demra on May 29, 2006, 02:31:46 AM
Yes you did say they would find it,good call maybe air presure  was so strong in tube.We got to letsome things slide we are talking about this really weird island with polar bears, monsters, magnetic foces, underground hatches, need I go on ;) ;) ;)

second truest thing ever said on this board

True true my friend I do think that we are over analizing some aspects of the show
But i still think that it all has to do with time traveling clones from the future past

LOl

who do drugs and commit incest...

Ya OLLY
I was in such a haze from the black smoke that I forgot all about that

ROFLMAO
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: shepherd on May 30, 2006, 03:38:51 AM
weren't all the hatches connected at one point then blocked off (according to the blast door map?)  maybe peral was a fail safe observation station, where is someone died there would be someone watching.  then they can rush to the swan and enter the button.  the video they watched from the pearl looked total different than the one from the swan, a decoy covering up the true meaning of the pearl.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: OLLY-wood on May 30, 2006, 04:28:24 AM
weren't all the hatches connected at one point then blocked off (according to the blast door map?)  maybe peral was a fail safe observation station, where is someone died there would be someone watching.  then they can rush to the swan and enter the button.  the video they watched from the pearl looked total different than the one from the swan, a decoy covering up the true meaning of the pearl.

hmmmm... nice way to make a first post... now get yourself over to the community lounge and let everyone know you're here

wouldn't say that the pearl was there with the intent of watching for safety... whoever is watching the hatch that watches the hatches would probably be looking out for that kinda thing but people get killed off like nothing over on this piece
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: AmazonMonkey on May 30, 2006, 10:43:46 AM
weren't all the hatches connected at one point then blocked off (according to the blast door map?)  maybe peral was a fail safe observation station, where is someone died there would be someone watching.  then they can rush to the swan and enter the button.  the video they watched from the pearl looked total different than the one from the swan, a decoy covering up the true meaning of the pearl.

It sure looked that way, but we don't really know.  Also if the computers are connected in a fashion that they can talk to each other you would think that they also would ALL in that network be able to reset the timer if they had to... just that is pure assumption.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: jugdish on May 30, 2006, 12:33:38 PM
No one came when they were having fake lockdowns and wandering the island. No one came when they were making invisible maps on blast doors. They did not seem to care what was going on. And no one read the diary entries.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: scrod on May 30, 2006, 02:10:52 PM
No one came when they were having fake lockdowns and wandering the island. No one came when they were making invisible maps on blast doors. They did not seem to care what was going on. And no one read the diary entries.
Jugdish, you are absolutley right.  nothing more to add...
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on June 05, 2006, 03:03:03 AM
I think we are all in agreement here after so many postings the cannisters were never read time for a new topic?
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: jugdish on June 05, 2006, 02:31:14 PM
Lock(e) this thread up. GJ is in charge.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: relient k on July 18, 2006, 08:11:41 PM
It looked like years worth atleast. Season three will hopefully clue us in on pre-crash happenings.
and to think they did it all for nothing!

i think the people in the pearl found that pile of cannisters and knew they had just wasted years doing it so they abandoned that hatch.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on July 19, 2006, 04:53:55 PM
HAHAHA!!  That's a great point, Amazon.  I'm guessing there is a writer oversight on this one and not that it is a clue, but a great point nonetheless...

Actually, the tube Jack picked up had Locke's Lockdown map on it; this was to let us know that not all of the books or observations that were there were old.  It was current.  It was a big tube to nowhere.

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: relient k on July 19, 2006, 05:14:38 PM
dharma is just plain useless now
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: BurkRoyer on July 19, 2006, 05:51:24 PM
Yes, but someone else, or something else is in control now... but who or what...
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: relient k on July 19, 2006, 06:11:27 PM
We will probably find out next season.
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 20, 2006, 01:19:51 PM
HAHAHA!!  That's a great point, Amazon.  I'm guessing there is a writer oversight on this one and not that it is a clue, but a great point nonetheless...

Actually, the tube Jack picked up had Locke's Lockdown map on it; this was to let us know that not all of the books or observations that were there were old.  It was current.  It was a big tube to nowhere.

cheers
*Des8
Actually Des it was Sawyer who picked it up and it was loose and not in a tube. Just proves the tube system still works but not still in use?
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on July 21, 2006, 11:45:42 AM
HAHAHA!!  That's a great point, Amazon.  I'm guessing there is a writer oversight on this one and not that it is a clue, but a great point nonetheless...

Actually, the tube Jack picked up had Locke's Lockdown map on it; this was to let us know that not all of the books or observations that were there were old.  It was current.  It was a big tube to nowhere.

cheers
*Des8
Actually Des it was Sawyer who picked it up and it was loose and not in a tube. Just proves the tube system still works but not still in use?

GJ exactly.  I remember when Locke first put the copy of the map into the vacuum system and sent it up I thought "ut oh....now someone's going to know he's not only there, but that he's got a map of the hatch system," but in LTDA I realized that scene was to let us know the vacuum system works, is operational, that the huge pile of tubes is relatively current, and came from the Pearl.  It was a pretty effective way to establish all of those points with just one scene--clever writing.

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: The canisters and the notebooks...
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 22, 2006, 07:36:38 PM
HAHAHA!!  That's a great point, Amazon.  I'm guessing there is a writer oversight on this one and not that it is a clue, but a great point nonetheless...

Actually, the tube Jack picked up had Locke's Lockdown map on it; this was to let us know that not all of the books or observations that were there were old.  It was current.  It was a big tube to nowhere.

cheers
*Des8
Actually Des it was Sawyer who picked it up and it was loose and not in a tube. Just proves the tube system still works but not still in use?

GJ exactly.  I remember when Locke first put the copy of the map into the vacuum system and sent it up I thought "ut oh....now someone's going to know he's not only there, but that he's got a map of the hatch system," but in LTDA I realized that scene was to let us know the vacuum system works, is operational, that the huge pile of tubes is relatively current, and came from the Pearl.  It was a pretty effective way to establish all of those points with just one scene--clever writing.

cheers
*Des8
Exactly dear friend.