Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 2 => Episode 2x23 => Topic started by: abaymomma on May 25, 2006, 03:14:53 PM

Title: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: abaymomma on May 25, 2006, 03:14:53 PM
Does anyone else think that the boat race that Desmond went on was a huge set up by Widmore to get Des out of Pen's life for good?  The race was sponsored by Widmore and maybe he knew Desmond would enter in order to win and prove that he is worthy of his daughter.  Again, maybe, Widmore banked on that and sent Libby to meet Des and offer her "dead" husbands boat. 

THe question with this line of thinking (and I'm thinking out loud) is how were they sure Desmond's boat would crash on the island?  It was all too convenient that Kelving happened to come onto the beach to take him back to the hatch.  He had to know that Des was coming.  I think this because a plane crashed on the island and Des didn't even know about it.  Thinking I'd notice a plane over a boat crash any day!

Any thoughts?
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Syco on May 25, 2006, 04:35:14 PM
This is an AWESOME theory and could explain a lot of things.  Specifically, it would tie Libby in in a way that would make a lot more sense.  First off, it would explain why she GAVE her boat to Desmond.  A rational person doesn't do such a thing, especially when you've just met someone over coffee.  It would also allow the writers to continue to unfold Libby's backstory.  When she died her backstory was left hanging while Ana Lucia's was pretty much finished and more or less understood.  With Libby though, we didn't know who she really was or what the circumstances were surrounding her presence in the Psychiatric Hospital with Hurley.  Perhaps she has been working for Hanso/Widmore all along and is instrumental in nudging some of these people in different directions.  It would also explain Kelvin's presence at just the right time on the beach.

On the other hand, maybe the writers just wanted to kill off Libby because of her DUI.  And Kelvin did mention to Desmond that he had been out there "for some time" before he was found.  Who knows.  Still, I like the theory.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Pandora on May 25, 2006, 04:39:11 PM
Well, as to why it would crash, you could ask why any of the vessels would crash--balloon, Danielle's research ship, Black Rock, and so on.

There's definitely something about the island which causes unique shipwrecks/strandings, and I think Desmond (when he tried to escape) pointed that out when he said he was sailing due West, away from the island, and should have been in Fiji, but ended up right back where he started from.  I think it's along the lines of the whole Bermuda Triangle thing that's been discussed before.

As for the race, to me, that storyline didn't make any sense.  Why someone who had just been bribed to leave Widmore's daughter alone, who would then turn around go on a solo race SPONSORED by said guy... turning down the love of his life, for "honor" just made no sense to me.  If he was a coward and wanted to run away with the bribe, there are easier ways to run away.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: XeroRestraint on May 25, 2006, 04:57:01 PM
This is an AWESOME theory and could explain a lot of things.  Specifically, it would tie Libby in in a way that would make a lot more sense.  First off, it would explain why she GAVE her boat to Desmond. 

I agree to the extent that we've seen a lot of "cons" on Lost so far.  I would go further to entertain the possibility that it could be (the other way around) that Des was conning Libby - setting up their "chance" encounter at the coffee shop (already knowing her circumstances in advance) with the sole purpose of playing on her emotional state to "obtain" her boat.

Also, I assume this meeting took place after Libby's stretch in the mental hospital but I haven't seen anything that definitively proves it one way or the other.  I think this could be siginificant if it winds up that either the death of her husband, or (potentially) learning she was conned by Des was the trigger that led to her mental dissarray.

A rational person doesn't do such a thing, especially when you've just met someone over coffee.  It would also allow the writers to continue to unfold Libby's backstory.  When she died her backstory was left hanging while Ana Lucia's was pretty much finished and more or less understood.  With Libby though, we didn't know who she really was or what the circumstances were surrounding her presence in the Psychiatric Hospital with Hurley.  Perhaps she has been working for Hanso/Widmore all along and is instrumental in nudging some of these people in different directions.  It would also explain Kelvin's presence at just the right time on the beach.

On the other hand, maybe the writers just wanted to kill off Libby because of her DUI.  And Kelvin did mention to Desmond that he had been out there "for some time" before he was found.  Who knows.  Still, I like the theory.

I'm pretty certain when the new cast members for season two were announced that both Michelle Rodriguez and Cynthia Watros' (Libby) contracts were only for one season so I think Lindehoff & Cuse were planning on killing them both off all along.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Syco on May 25, 2006, 05:38:57 PM
I really don't think that the conversation between Libby and Desmond took place before her stint in the Mental Hospital.  Since the events of the show are taking place in late 2004 their conversation would have happened around early to mid-2001.  I get the impression that Hurley was in the Psych Ward around twelve months to two years prior to the plane crash.

Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: XeroRestraint on May 25, 2006, 06:10:50 PM
I really don't think that the conversation between Libby and Desmond took place before her stint in the Mental Hospital.  Since the events of the show are taking place in late 2004 their conversation would have happened around early to mid-2001.  I get the impression that Hurley was in the Psych Ward around twelve months to two years prior to the plane crash.

So then, based on your premises:

2004 = plane crash / begin real-time on the island

2003-2002 = Hurley's hospitalization

2001 = Libby & Desmond's meeting

Please correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this validate the possibility that Libby & Desmond met before she (or Hurley) was in the mental hospital? 

In terms of timeline certainty - after last night we now know the exact date of the plane crash (Sept-2004), and we know that Desmond has been on the island for 3+ years (which would more or less make 2001 the latest that he could have still been preparing for the race / trip).  That makes the speculated hospital stint fall nicely between those two events, no?
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: jules778 on May 25, 2006, 06:29:25 PM

I think that the magnet on the island is causing all the wrecks.  Think about it... using a compass it points to a false North,right? So maybe the equipment being used  to help guide each "vehicle" is being thrown off (as  they get w/in a certain range of the magnet), thus throwing them off course.  what do you think?
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: LOSTgurl on May 25, 2006, 06:32:07 PM
I have a feeling Widmore sent Libby to Desmond and sent Desmond to the Island.  After all, he was in a rainstorm and went inside the boat for cover......... with all the chaos outside, Widmore could have had a tugboat pull Desmond's boat to the Island and he probably would never have known.  How did Desmond even end up on the beach? Was he thrown out of the boat (that had a door to downstairs)?

Did Penelope have an accent? Widmore could be centrally located in Australia and that's why Libby was there.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: AlwaysLOST4ever on May 25, 2006, 07:37:44 PM
.......On the other hand, maybe the writers just wanted to kill off Libby because of her DUI. 

I'm pretty certain when the new cast members for season two were announced that both Michelle Rodriguez and Cynthia Watros' (Libby) contracts were only for one season so I think Lindehoff & Cuse were planning on killing them both off all along.

I can't remember where I heard or read it--web site? podcast?--but supposedly Michelle Rodriguez (Ana-Lucia) was hired for just 1 year, but that wasn't the case for Cynthia Watros (Libby).  Her death was added in order to make the audience have more of a sympathetic response than if Michael had only killed Ana-Lucia, who had not endeared herself to viewers.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on May 25, 2006, 08:26:56 PM
Quote
Please correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't this validate the possibility that Libby & Desmond met before she (or Hurley) was in the mental hospital? 

In terms of timeline certainty - after last night we now know the exact date of the plane crash (Sept-2004), and we know that Desmond has been on the island for 3+ years (which would more or less make 2001 the latest that he could have still been preparing for the race / trip).  That makes the speculated hospital stint fall nicely between those two events, no?
Quote
Okay first off Iagree Libby is working for Widmore but not a family member of Widmore.If she did have a husband whose name was David, I think the joke was done by the producers to make us think of Hurley's Dave.- red herring.I went through the time line on a commercial break and I came to same conclusion after she gives Desmond the boat, she ends up in the mental ward with Hurley. Desmond never sees her again after she gives him the boat.
Also keep in mind as Jack is running up the steps when Desmond arrives at stadium this is the same timef rame when Jack meets and fixes his future wife whom he later divorces.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Mrs. Charlie Pace on May 26, 2006, 01:48:38 AM
Quote
Also keep in mind as Jack is running up the steps when Desmond arrives at stadium this is the same timeframe when Jack meets and fixes his future wife whom he later divorces.

Now...I also noticed that the man pulling up at the stadium as Desmond is preparing to workout looks an awful lot like Jack.  You can really tell as he is walking through the background.  It's almost as if the camera focuses on him for a split second. Who knows how much if any significance this has later...it seems like the writes just like to throw things in there to make us wonder sometimes.

The quote above seems to indicate that maybe Penelope and Sarah are one in the same...but based on a review of the two characters appearance I don't think this is the case...but that's strictly my opinion.

Everyone seems to be looking at Libby as a bad guy in this whole thing, but it seems to me that if she had been a plant (especially in the mental hospital with Hurley) that she would have had a lot more contact with him than what the writers have led us to believe so far.  If she had been close to him there then I would venture to say he would have remembered her.

The final thing I want to throw out there is this...I haven't seen anyone mention the possibility that Desmond is the reason Libby is in the mental hospital.  There seem to be lots of conspiracy theories about Libby, but we don't know the extent of their relationship between the time that they meet and the time that he leaves.  This is not to say that Desmond has forsaken his feelings for Penelope.  However, maybe Libby falls for Desmond during the 8 months before the race and his disappearance with her former husband's boat is what finally pushes her over the edge.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on June 05, 2006, 01:05:08 AM
No I don't think Libbywas in therebecuase of Desmond(nor to spy on Huley he plays the lottery after he gets out) Widmore supplied the boat,she probably lied.No one  gives a stranger a boat.
BUt the first flashback Desmond isin a good mood pumping jack to believe in the miracle.Yet in finale flashback he just left the love of his lifePenny and was very very down. How and why did he get in such a good mood?
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: demra on June 05, 2006, 01:15:23 AM
just  a thought on that

he is pumped because he knows she still loves him and he believes he can win her and his honor back
so he is in a very positive frame of mind when he first meets Jack

I could be way off base
it's just a thought
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on June 05, 2006, 01:21:40 AM
Excelennt point Demra wow 9 to go,go .
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: demra on June 05, 2006, 01:23:26 AM
I know I am so close i can taste the survivor bar from here

 ;D
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on June 05, 2006, 01:24:05 AM
maje yur final post in surviovrlounge
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: demra on June 05, 2006, 01:25:12 AM
okie dokie 

thanks for the props

Excelennt point Demra wow 9 to go,go .

I am a sucker for Love
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on June 05, 2006, 01:30:12 AM
Just dowhat your little guy is doing keep on marching
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: demra on June 05, 2006, 01:32:15 AM
Battered and Bruised 

but i will never give up
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on June 05, 2006, 01:34:37 AM
There'salways the song gameforlast few.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: sticks1983 on June 17, 2006, 12:36:22 PM
what about when it flashed back to desmond in the storm, on the boat..... what was that bouy??? I mean it was the middle of the ocean!.... does anyone have any ideas?
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: siouxiesue1919 on June 17, 2006, 03:00:51 PM
What I am wondering is what Kelvin was doing wandering around outside when he found Desmond...Was he searching for something?  Or was he never really in the hatch prior to meeting Desmond?
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Zeke on June 17, 2006, 04:08:22 PM
Yea i doubt Kelvin was searching that beach, i mean hes not gonna find much out there except sand and sea so i think he must have had some clue Desmond was gonna crash out there.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: LostGirlDeb on June 18, 2006, 11:57:53 PM
Why do you think he was on that beach though?  anyone?
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: sticks1983 on June 19, 2006, 12:15:20 AM
well there were a whole bunch of people...... where did THEY come from, and where did they go???
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: siouxiesue1919 on June 19, 2006, 02:32:33 PM
well there were a whole bunch of people...... where did THEY come from, and where did they go???

I don't think there was a bunch of people.  That's what I thought at first, but when I watched it again, Desmond just has blurry vision; they are all Kelvin.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on June 20, 2006, 04:43:25 PM
well there were a whole bunch of people...... where did THEY come from, and where did they go???

I don't think there was a bunch of people.  That's what I thought at first, but when I watched it again, Desmond just has blurry vision; they are all Kelvin.
It was only kelvin watch it again very slowly seeing it from Desmond's point of view.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: LostGirlDeb on June 22, 2006, 12:05:23 AM
Yeah it did seem like a lot of people but I think it was only kelvin too
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: demra on June 23, 2006, 10:19:26 AM
It was just Kelvin that found Desmond

It seems like the Others know when someone new arives on the island
they infiltrated both groups immeditatly after the crash and were dressed the part and knew enough to get by undiscovered
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on June 24, 2006, 11:13:39 PM
It was just Kelvin that found Desmond

It seems like the Others know when someone new arives on the island
they infiltrated both groups immeditatly after the crash and were dressed the part and knew enough to get by undiscovered
It was only kelvin but again we agree ;D ;D ;D the others knew somehow Des was coming.Sent kelvin out there to grab him. how and why are the big questions.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: demra on June 27, 2006, 01:34:15 AM
I would submit that they have to have some sophisticated  equip that montiors they surrounding  area
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on June 27, 2006, 11:57:33 PM
just  a thought on that

he is pumped because he knows she still loves him and he believes he can win her and his honor back
so he is in a very positive frame of mind when he first meets Jack

I could be way off base
it's just a thought
Derma: great post; I'm with you on this one ;)  Post quickly so we can congratulate you!

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 05, 2006, 01:22:26 PM
I would submit that they have to have some sophisticated  equip that montiors they surrounding  area
Maye the TV'sin the pearl?
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 05, 2006, 01:23:22 PM
just  a thought on that
Thaywould explain si sudden mood change when stumblinginto jack,being sodepressed then so full ofhope and sharing that hope with jack otbeelivein miracles.

he is pumped because he knows she still loves him and he believes he can win her and his honor back
so he is in a very positive frame of mind when he first meets Jack

I could be way off base
it's just a thought
Derma: great post; I'm with you on this one ;)  Post quickly so we can congratulate you!

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: button pusher on July 24, 2006, 06:50:17 PM
Maybe it really was a SOLO race around the world... Widmore has enough money to pay a bunch of people with boats to start a "race" knowing Desmond would be the type to try to win it. So the race starts, the course is set to run through the area where the boat will get caught in the islands pull. Desmond takes off and pulls ahead of everyone with a commanding lead... feeling pretty pumped and good about himself. What he doesn't know is that Widmore has the fix in and that all of the other "racers" are letting Desmond get ahead and once he's out of sight, they turn around, pull into the harbor and have a great steak and lobster dinner with open bar hosted by Charles Widmore. Desmond goes right on racing to his prison.

As far as Libby goes... I can see giving a stranger a boat if you have no use for it and it holds painful memories. I once gave a car to a complete stranger who knocked on my door one day... I want to believe in Libby's goodness
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 25, 2006, 01:51:38 PM
Button pusher I'mthorughly enjoyign reading your posts this morning.No one would dispute what yopu posted here about Des and the post race.
On other site though there was a lot of discussion about libby and how and why she was working for Widmore to give Des that boat.



Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: LostGirlDeb on July 25, 2006, 10:13:35 PM
I enjoy your posts button pusher and you seem like a very nice person but I really think there is more to Libby giving Des the boat
I mean how many people in the world are REALLY like you (to give something of such value to a total stranger).  I suppose it could happen as you are proof of that but in this story I really think it was some sort of a setup.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: button pusher on July 25, 2006, 11:34:09 PM
I wouldn't really say that I'm that nice a guy... In the case of the car, I didn't need it anymore... had some memories to it that I was ready to part with. It had been sitting for several months in my carport. One day a kid knocked on the door and asked if I wanted to sell it to him. I looked at him. He didn't look like he had much to offer so I told him he could have it. It benefited me to be rid of it as much as it benefited him.

I haven't read any of the theories about Libby working with Widmore... I just hope she wasn't because I really like Libby and want to think of her as being just genuine... may she rest in peace.

Oh... and shame on you who gather information and speculation from other sites  :P
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: LostGirlDeb on July 25, 2006, 11:40:28 PM
Thanks for sharing that little bit about yourself and maybe you are right about Libby
I liked her too
She did seem nice and genuine I guess I am just to cynical (wish I wasn't) and find it hard to believe that someone would do that and because it is the show I am suspicious of everything.
Hey GJ there should be a punishment for going to other sites  J/K
I know you only do it to provide us with even more info LOL
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on July 25, 2006, 11:41:44 PM
well there were a whole bunch of people...... where did THEY come from, and where did they go???

I don't think there was a bunch of people.  That's what I thought at first, but when I watched it again, Desmond just has blurry vision; they are all Kelvin.

Uh-oh.  Here comes another one of my theories.  

I think half of those people were Kelvin and the other half were Joe.  (I know the producers have said that Kelvin and Joe are the same person, but I don't trust them!)  Why use a cluster lens to show delerium when it would be just as easy to use a blurry lens?  I think they wanted to confuse us about the number of people who came to Desmond's rescue.  At first we assume there were several, then we realize they all looked alike, so we assume there was only one.  I say there were two, Kelvin and Joe Inman.  Desmond knew his rescuer as Kelvin.  Kelvin frequently came and went from the hatch, leaving Desmond inside to push the button by himself, and telling him it would be dangerous for him to leave.  Was it always Kelvin who came back after an outing?  Could it be that sometimes it was Kelvin and sometimes it was Joe?  Kelvin seemed to have a Jekyll and Hyde personality.  Sometimes he was cynical, demanding and cold, morose, other times he was charming, funny, warm, devil-may-care.  So what if Kelvin was Jekyll and Joe was Hyde?  

(This theory is inspired in part by the "secret twins twist" from season five of Big Brother.  Remember Natalie and Adria?)  
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 27, 2006, 01:41:59 AM
well there were a whole bunch of people...... where did THEY come from, and where did they go???

I don't think there was a bunch of people.  That's what I thought at first, but when I watched it again, Desmond just has blurry vision; they are all Kelvin.

Uh-oh.  Here comes another one of my theories.  

I think half of those people were Kelvin and the other half were Joe.  (I know the producers have said that Kelvin and Joe are the same person, but I don't trust them!)  Why use a cluster lens to show delerium when it would be just as easy to use a blurry lens?  I think they wanted to confuse us about the number of people who came to Desmond's rescue.  At first we assume there were several, then we realize they all looked alike, so we assume there was only one.  I say there were two, Kelvin and Joe Inman.  Desmond knew his rescuer as Kelvin.  Kelvin frequently came and went from the hatch, leaving Desmond inside to push the button by himself, and telling him it would be dangerous for him to leave.  Was it always Kelvin who came back after an outing?  Could it be that sometimes it was Kelvin and sometimes it was Joe?  Kelvin seemed to have a Jekyll and Hyde personality.  Sometimes he was cynical, demanding and cold, morose, other times he was charming, funny, warm, devil-may-care.  So what if Kelvin was Jekyll and Joe was Hyde?  

(This theory is inspired in part by the "secret twins twist" from season five of Big Brother.  Remember Natalie and Adria?)  

SLOL I"M disagreeing with you on this one didn't Sledge do a screen c ap showing they were  not the same person?
 Desmond did say to Jack that Kelvin said come with me come with me or something to that affect.But Kelvin didn't speak to him so we did learn from the rescue is that Des does lie.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: jugdish on July 27, 2006, 02:25:40 AM
Agreed Gj.different people and only one person got des off of the beach.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on July 27, 2006, 03:18:01 AM
I'm going to stick with this one for awhile.  I think the twins, Joe and Kelvin, where both in the swan station, but not at the same time.  They kept switching places.  Desmond thought they were the same person.  Maybe I'm being stubborn about it because I'm a twin.  (BTW, my evil twin recorded S2 on dvd and she promised to send me her discs so I can really study the images up close.  I hope she remembers.)
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: jugdish on July 28, 2006, 02:13:00 AM
Stick to your beliefs. I have my faith in underwater hatches and christian still being alive.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Sweet Old Lady on July 28, 2006, 02:39:28 AM
Stick to your beliefs. I have my faith in underwater hatches and christian still being alive.

Thanks, Jug.  I'm with you on the underwater hatch and Christian, too.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on July 28, 2006, 05:20:44 AM
speaking of sticking to your beliefs; I see that someone on the ABC board hijacked my art/mural/loft theory and took it 1 step further adding Fenry to the mix, but keeping the Thomas story.  I'll post it under a new topic, but it kind of pissed me off.  I've been working on that one for a LONG, LONG time. 

Too bad Sledge or a mod deleted my original theory from this board.  I posted it on ABC's board about a year ago and they don't keep their topics for that long, either.  Particularly considering the nonsense people post there.

stick to your guns!

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Geronimo Jackson on July 31, 2006, 03:54:28 PM
I noticed it was just gone not locked but gone and I loved your theorys and all the responses to them maybe repost under sasopliers theroies?
 I wish poeple wouldgoabck and read what toics are already open and running I ahev three ofmine being copied,think one was remvoed this mornign can't findit but two others till open and PM'ed them to lock.
Title: Re: Desmond's Boat Race
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on October 03, 2006, 10:10:32 PM
I noticed it was just gone not locked but gone and I loved your theorys and all the responses to them maybe repost under sasopliers theroies?
 I wish poeple wouldgoabck and read what toics are already open and running I ahev three ofmine being copied,think one was remvoed this mornign can't findit but two others till open and PM'ed them to lock.

GJ: you know how long it took me to come up with that, complete--from beginning to end--and some assclown hijacked it?  Oh man...  I'm going to repost it here tonight.  Thanks for sticking by me, my friend.

cheers
*Des8