Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x16 => Topic started by: BurkRoyer on May 27, 2010, 03:00:11 PM

Title: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 27, 2010, 03:00:11 PM
The more I think about it, the more I find the airplane escape by Lapidus and company a little useless.  Sure they didn't know that Jack would turn the light back on and stop the island from sinking.  And that the new leader would be Hurley, who would probably be the most benevolent leader ever on the island.  But had they not been able to get the plane started, they still would have been just fine.  All the bad guys were dead and Hurley would have probably just let them go home...  So the whole plane escape was quite unnecessary... Am I ruining it for everyone? :)
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: lostfan777 on May 27, 2010, 03:14:36 PM
If the show was reality, then yeah, it turns out they didn't really need to escape the island that second after all.  But since it's a show, and they needed to tie things up for us at the end, then:
1. Jack needed to know they got off the island before he died, and
2. WE needed to know they got off the island so we'd know they lived out their lives before they met again at the church.
We weren't going to have time to find out whether Hurley COULD change the rules and, if he could, how and when they would get to leave, etc. 
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 27, 2010, 03:19:35 PM
If the show was reality, then yeah, it turns out they didn't really need to escape the island that second after all.  But since it's a show, and they needed to tie things up for us at the end, then:
1. Jack needed to know they got off the island before he died, and
2. WE needed to know they got off the island so we'd know they lived out their lives before they met again at the church.
We weren't going to have time to find out whether Hurley COULD change the rules and, if he could, how and when they would get to leave, etc. 

Yeah, but, now that you say that... We never really saw them leave the island, did we?  We only saw them fly over it.  How do we know they didn't crash a few seconds later :)  Or fly through a time-wrap and end up in 1872 :D
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 27, 2010, 03:28:46 PM
Yeah I never thought of that. Their escape really wasn't so dire once the cork was replaced. Still dug the scene though. Great shot through the Bamboo.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: CaseyMac on May 27, 2010, 03:30:21 PM
If the show was reality, then yeah, it turns out they didn't really need to escape the island that second after all.  But since it's a show, and they needed to tie things up for us at the end, then:
1. Jack needed to know they got off the island before he died, and
2. WE needed to know they got off the island so we'd know they lived out their lives before they met again at the church.
We weren't going to have time to find out whether Hurley COULD change the rules and, if he could, how and when they would get to leave, etc. 

Yeah, but, now that you say that... We never really saw them leave the island, did we?  We only saw them fly over it.  How do we know they didn't crash a few seconds later :)  Or fly through a time-wrap and end up in 1872 :D


Shhhh, thats for the sequel ABC is going to try in a few years.

As for the escape, I guess in a way it's a little unnecessary, because perhaps they all could have gotten off on Elizabeth eventually. (though it would have been cramped) The runway was crumbling, so even though Jack saved the Island, the runway that Sawyer and Kate worked so hard on was toast.

Personally, I file it under the "unnecessary but cool" file, just like how Jack walked back to the bamboo grove. He didn't need to walk over there, it served no real purpose, but it was sooooo freaking cool.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: lostandfree on May 27, 2010, 04:01:43 PM
You guys are being too cynical now.  You're looking at it from the point of view of a tv show being written by the writers and it was pointless for the writers to have them do that.  If you look at it from the characters perspective they had no way of knowing that they would have been just fine.  The island was crumbling, maybe sinking, they needed to get off.  They couldn't predict the future.

Watching this show has made us all crazy and analytical that's it's almost ruined the fun and fantasy of television for us.  You wouldn't have said that about any other show.  Lost is the only show that I've ever thought about what the writers are doing and where they are going with this.  Remember when we used to just enjoy television and never think of it as fake or as something being written.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 27, 2010, 04:02:37 PM
If the show was reality, then yeah, it turns out they didn't really need to escape the island that second after all.  But since it's a show, and they needed to tie things up for us at the end, then:
1. Jack needed to know they got off the island before he died, and
2. WE needed to know they got off the island so we'd know they lived out their lives before they met again at the church.
We weren't going to have time to find out whether Hurley COULD change the rules and, if he could, how and when they would get to leave, etc. 

Yeah, but, now that you say that... We never really saw them leave the island, did we?  We only saw them fly over it.  How do we know they didn't crash a few seconds later :)  Or fly through a time-wrap and end up in 1872 :D


Shhhh, thats for the sequel ABC is going to try in a few years.

As for the escape, I guess in a way it's a little unnecessary, because perhaps they all could have gotten off on Elizabeth eventually. (though it would have been cramped) The runway was crumbling, so even though Jack saved the Island, the runway that Sawyer and Kate worked so hard on was toast.

Personally, I file it under the "unnecessary but cool" file, just like how Jack walked back to the bamboo grove. He didn't need to walk over there, it served no real purpose, but it was sooooo freaking cool.

Agreed. That whole finale was so freaking cool.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: MachThree on May 27, 2010, 04:54:30 PM
Actually, its a matter of timing.  The island was still breaking apart when they took off.  Even if they could tell from the air that Jackob had fixed things, why would they turn around?  No, they all wanted to go home.  None of them knew about Hurley's ascension.  And who would want to press their luck trying to land a 737 on that unpaved dirt strip that was too short a second time? 
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: lostlady on May 27, 2010, 04:55:12 PM
If the show was reality, then yeah, it turns out they didn't really need to escape the island that second after all.  But since it's a show, and they needed to tie things up for us at the end, then:
1. Jack needed to know they got off the island before he died, and
2. WE needed to know they got off the island so we'd know they lived out their lives before they met again at the church.
We weren't going to have time to find out whether Hurley COULD change the rules and, if he could, how and when they would get to leave, etc.
 

This!
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: conway on May 27, 2010, 05:05:19 PM
Let us not forget that Richard could go to LAX and get a passport to go to the Canary Islands...lrt's see  birthday ,1840...hmmm
Lapidus would change careers...never want to fly anywhere ever again
Sawyer could go meet Clemintine
Miles has his diamonds to spend and
Kate and Claire get to raise AAron,
Happy days off the island

p.S.  Claire gets to go to the hairdresser and they all get hot showers and new clothes
Hooray!
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: Creflo on May 27, 2010, 05:15:06 PM
Kate and Claire get to raise AAron

This is why the plane escaping was necessary.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: jugdish on May 27, 2010, 07:52:06 PM
They did not know Jack would save the island, plus if they did not get off on the plane how would they get home. Great scene with Jack dieing and seeing the plane talke off. It was worth it right there.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: CaseyMac on May 27, 2010, 09:17:55 PM
They did not know Jack would save the island, plus if they did not get off on the plane how would they get home. Great scene with Jack dieing and seeing the plane talke off. It was worth it right there.

They could have hitched a ride with Desmond on the Elizabeth, but I agree, having that last shot of the plane flying overhead was more than worth it.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: LouE68 on May 27, 2010, 09:54:24 PM
If the show was reality, then yeah, it turns out they didn't really need to escape the island that second after all.  But since it's a show, and they needed to tie things up for us at the end, then:
1. Jack needed to know they got off the island before he died, and
2. WE needed to know they got off the island so we'd know they lived out their lives before they met again at the church.
We weren't going to have time to find out whether Hurley COULD change the rules and, if he could, how and when they would get to leave, etc. 

Yeah, but, now that you say that... We never really saw them leave the island, did we?  We only saw them fly over it.  How do we know they didn't crash a few seconds later :)  Or fly through a time-wrap and end up in 1872 :D

Lapidus knew the coordinates to escape successfully when he was flying the chopper...
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: Madam P on May 28, 2010, 10:34:48 AM

Miles has his diamonds to spend

I totally forgot about that!  Awesome!   ;D  Wonder if he'd share?  Chip in a little to help buy Ricardus a fake passport?  Fund Aaron's college?   :D


They could have hitched a ride with Desmond on the Elizabeth...

Forgot about the "Elizabeth" too!  Here I was wondering how Desmond was going to escape... Donkey Wheel or something?  *D'oh!*  His boat is sitting right there! 

Funny... they could all get back off the island the same way they got there...
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: lostfan777 on May 28, 2010, 11:59:18 AM

Miles has his diamonds to spend

I totally forgot about that!  Awesome!   ;D  Wonder if he'd share?  Chip in a little to help buy Ricardus a fake passport?  Fund Aaron's college?   :D


Richard is probably already set from his Mittelos front.  Sawyer and Claire should be getting the same payoff as the O6 and Aaron already has his.  Actually, Miles is probably the least well off except for Frank, but they could sue Ajira for a similar payoff like Oceanic!  Makes me want to take a chance and fly more!   ;D
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: CaseyMac on May 28, 2010, 01:44:14 PM

Miles has his diamonds to spend

I totally forgot about that!  Awesome!   ;D  Wonder if he'd share?  Chip in a little to help buy Ricardus a fake passport?  Fund Aaron's college?   :D


Richard is probably already set from his Mittelos front.  Sawyer and Claire should be getting the same payoff as the O6 and Aaron already has his.  Actually, Miles is probably the least well off except for Frank, but they could sue Ajira for a similar payoff like Oceanic!  Makes me want to take a chance and fly more!   ;D

Yeah, Miles is pretty set, but I just have a feeling he wouldn't be the kind of guy to share those diamonds. Also, Oceanic may have a fraud case against Kate for lying about her story. Then of course, they would definitely have a case against Widmore Industries for fabricating the fake plane crash. Something tells me Sawyer would find a way of getting a good payoff though.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: WhatThe on May 29, 2010, 08:55:34 PM
Kate and Claire get to raise AAron,

Why does this sound like they're going to make a lovely lesbian couple raising a family together? lol :)
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: Maxor127 on May 30, 2010, 12:16:11 AM
The plane escape doesn't sit well with me either.  It was pretty worthless, and I don't like that they can easily leave and not care about at least leaving Hurley behind.  Oh well.  I wish they did a lot of things different for the finale but it is what it is.  I can only hope Lindeloff and Cuse will read my brilliant suggestions and bring everyone back to reshoot the Lost Finale: Maxor127 Cut.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: CaseyMac on May 30, 2010, 01:05:59 AM
The plane escape doesn't sit well with me either.  It was pretty worthless, and I don't like that they can easily leave and not care about at least leaving Hurley behind.  Oh well.  I wish they did a lot of things different for the finale but it is what it is.  I can only hope Lindeloff and Cuse will read my brilliant suggestions and bring everyone back to reshoot the Lost Finale: Maxor127 Cut.

Hurley chose to stay behind. Remember the scene on the cliff when they all split up. Hurley decided to stay with Jack while Kate and Sawyer took off. Jack likely knew he wasn't going to make it from his stab wound and knew someone would have to protect the Island after he died. Thats why he talked Kate into leaving, but didn't put up a fight when Hurley said he'd stay. He knew it had to be Hurley.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: Maxor127 on May 30, 2010, 03:11:14 AM
Yeah, but as far as everyone on the plane was concerned, the island was going to sink and Hurley was going to die.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: WhatThe on May 30, 2010, 03:24:07 AM
Yeah, but as far as everyone on the plane was concerned, the island was going to sink and Hurley was going to die.

Well, it's not as if they showed everyone's reactions later after letting the reality of it all sink in...all Kate, Sawyer, Miles and the rest were thinking was they need to escape, and now. Actually, that's an incredibly realistic reaction so it works for me. It's waaaay too "hollywood"-ish to constantly have people risking their lives because they MUST save every single character in the movie or tv show lol...even the pets.

"Where's Boomer?!...Here, Boomer! Here, boy!!" - Independence Day, as the world literally explodes all around Vivica Fox and her young son.

Ripley looking all over the spaceship for the damn cat, even though there's a 10 foot tall face-eating, acid-dripping alien after her lol...
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: Maxor127 on May 30, 2010, 03:37:54 AM
But since the entire point of the 5th season was to rescue everyone on the island and bring them back, now they leave people behind again.  And Jack basically wanting to commit suicide because of the guilt of leaving those people behind.  Now Hurley is expendable?  Nope, sorry, doesn't sit well with me.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: CaseyMac on May 30, 2010, 04:13:21 AM
The point is, Hurley chose to stay behind. The decision was made on the cliff. After that...whatever happens, happens. There was never a moment of, "ah screw Hurley, we're outta here." Hurley had his chance, and he wanted to stay with Jack to whatever end. Hurley was never expendable. He was very very heroic to stay with Jack to the end.

We thought the point of the 5th season was to rescue everyone, but we found out this season that Jack's purpose was much greater. Yes, part of it was to save those that got away, hence his smile at seeing the plane fly overhead through the bamboo thicket, however, Jack's destiny to save the Island, and perhaps mankind was fulfilled as well.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: WhatThe on May 30, 2010, 04:36:27 AM
But since the entire point of the 5th season was to rescue everyone on the island and bring them back, now they leave people behind again.  And Jack basically wanting to commit suicide because of the guilt of leaving those people behind.  Now Hurley is expendable?  Nope, sorry, doesn't sit well with me.

What? How did you come to the conclusion that Jack was wanting to "commit suicide" due to guilt of the people left behind? Seriously, I have ZERO idea where you got that from. Jack's inner transformation was not all that different from Desmond's sudden enlightenment and the realization of what MUST be done...and him being OK with it. Jack's transformation took a lot longer, but he reached the same place...he knew what must be done and was OK with doing so. No "guilt" necessary.

And as Casey has said numerous times, Hurley WANTED to stay behind. Why that doesn't matter to you and you can ONLY see it as the others viewing Hurley as expendable, I don't understand.

As for the point of season 5...Jack already said that the reason he came back was because he thought the island could "fix" him ("I came back because I was broken"). Do you remember, in season 5, when Juliet and Jack had this exchange in the bathroom?

JACK: I came back here because I care, Juliet. I came back here because I was trying to save you.

JULIET: We didn't need saving. We've been fine for three years. You came back here for you. At least do me the courtesy of telling me why.

JACK: I came back...because I was supposed to.

JULIET: Supposed to do what?

JACK: [Scoffs] I don't know yet.

JULIET: Well, you'd better figure it out.

So that kind of puts a dent in your theory that all of season 5 was geared around getting everyone off the island, doesn't it? Jack may have said that's why he went back, but it's made DAMN clear in that exchange that it wasn't the real reason he went back...that Jack didn't know yet why he came back, only that he "knew" he was supposed to. And as mentioned before, Jack further explains to Hurley that the underlying reason he came back was because he was "broken" and thought the island could "fix" him. No talk about getting everyone off the island that was left behind before.

Why did Hurley come back? Because Jacob visited him and set his path in motion...as Jacob said, some people just need to be told directly what to do, and Hurley was one of those people. Why did Sun come back? Because she was made to believe Jin was still alive, and she ONLY went back for him. Why did Sayid go back? He was forced lol...Ilana had him handcuffed and under arrest. Why did Kate come back? To find Claire and return her to Aaron.

Again, the idea that the "entire point of season 5" was to get everyone off the island is false.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: Madam P on May 30, 2010, 01:56:01 PM
But since the entire point of the 5th season was to rescue everyone on the island and bring them back, now they leave people behind again.  And Jack basically wanting to commit suicide because of the guilt of leaving those people behind.  Now Hurley is expendable?  Nope, sorry, doesn't sit well with me.

What? How did you come to the conclusion that Jack was wanting to "commit suicide" due to guilt of the people left behind? Seriously, I have ZERO idea where you got that from.

I think the reference was to when bearded, strung-out Jack was going to jump off the bridge, before he got distracted by having to rescue the people who were in the car crash.

Again, the idea that the "entire point of season 5" was to get everyone off the island is false.

Not entirely false -- your examples show that Kate went back to get Claire to bring her back to Aaron, and Sun went back to get Jin and bring him back.  I think Jack started out by thinking he had to go back to "rescue" everyone and at that point he thought it probably meant he had to bring them back with him, not that he'd have to do what he ended up doing.  Hurley, Sayid, Lapidus, Ben... yeah, not coming back for a rescue so much, I agree.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: Maxor127 on May 30, 2010, 02:26:08 PM
But since the entire point of the 5th season was to rescue everyone on the island and bring them back, now they leave people behind again.  And Jack basically wanting to commit suicide because of the guilt of leaving those people behind.  Now Hurley is expendable?  Nope, sorry, doesn't sit well with me.

What? How did you come to the conclusion that Jack was wanting to "commit suicide" due to guilt of the people left behind? Seriously, I have ZERO idea where you got that from.

I think the reference was to when bearded, strung-out Jack was going to jump off the bridge, before he got distracted by having to rescue the people who were in the car crash.

Again, the idea that the "entire point of season 5" was to get everyone off the island is false.

Not entirely false -- your examples show that Kate went back to get Claire to bring her back to Aaron, and Sun went back to get Jin and bring him back.  I think Jack started out by thinking he had to go back to "rescue" everyone and at that point he thought it probably meant he had to bring them back with him, not that he'd have to do what he ended up doing.  Hurley, Sayid, Lapidus, Ben... yeah, not coming back for a rescue so much, I agree.
You're apparently the only one who understood my simple argument.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: CaseyMac on May 31, 2010, 02:57:51 AM
But since the entire point of the 5th season was to rescue everyone on the island and bring them back, now they leave people behind again.  And Jack basically wanting to commit suicide because of the guilt of leaving those people behind.  Now Hurley is expendable?  Nope, sorry, doesn't sit well with me.

What? How did you come to the conclusion that Jack was wanting to "commit suicide" due to guilt of the people left behind? Seriously, I have ZERO idea where you got that from.

I think the reference was to when bearded, strung-out Jack was going to jump off the bridge, before he got distracted by having to rescue the people who were in the car crash.

Again, the idea that the "entire point of season 5" was to get everyone off the island is false.

Not entirely false -- your examples show that Kate went back to get Claire to bring her back to Aaron, and Sun went back to get Jin and bring him back.  I think Jack started out by thinking he had to go back to "rescue" everyone and at that point he thought it probably meant he had to bring them back with him, not that he'd have to do what he ended up doing.  Hurley, Sayid, Lapidus, Ben... yeah, not coming back for a rescue so much, I agree.
You're apparently the only one who understood my simple argument.

Yeah, here I am thinking your simple arguement was the characters felt "Hurley was expendable". Silly me.
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: WhatThe on May 31, 2010, 03:19:47 AM
But since the entire point of the 5th season was to rescue everyone on the island and bring them back, now they leave people behind again.  And Jack basically wanting to commit suicide because of the guilt of leaving those people behind.  Now Hurley is expendable?  Nope, sorry, doesn't sit well with me.

What? How did you come to the conclusion that Jack was wanting to "commit suicide" due to guilt of the people left behind? Seriously, I have ZERO idea where you got that from.

I think the reference was to when bearded, strung-out Jack was going to jump off the bridge, before he got distracted by having to rescue the people who were in the car crash.

Again, the idea that the "entire point of season 5" was to get everyone off the island is false.

Not entirely false -- your examples show that Kate went back to get Claire to bring her back to Aaron, and Sun went back to get Jin and bring him back.  I think Jack started out by thinking he had to go back to "rescue" everyone and at that point he thought it probably meant he had to bring them back with him, not that he'd have to do what he ended up doing.  Hurley, Sayid, Lapidus, Ben... yeah, not coming back for a rescue so much, I agree.

Read the quote again, though:

Quote
entire point of the 5th season was to rescue everyone on the island and bring them back

Do you REALLY think the "entire point" of season 5 was to bring everyone back?

Kate wanted to bring ONE person back: Claire. And she did.

Sun only went because she wanted to bring ONE person back: Jin. They both died together before she could do so.

Jack tried to convince himself that he needed to bring the rest back, but even Juliet called him out on it and made him admit that he didn't come back for them, he came back for himself.

Hurley, Sayid, Lapidus, Ben...they didn't come back for anyone at all.

So Max's original comment--that not insisting on taking Hurley with them on the plane somehow contradicts the "entire point" of season 5--would indeed appear to be false, no? Letting Hurley stay behind on his own accord and by his own wishes does abso-stinkin-lutely nothing to contradict anything in season 5 or anything we've come to be shown about all of the characters. It's a weak point he's making as a foundation for complaining. The show actually told us point-blank that NONE of the returning O6 returned to the island to "bring everyone back".

Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: WhatThe on May 31, 2010, 03:22:17 AM
But since the entire point of the 5th season was to rescue everyone on the island and bring them back, now they leave people behind again.  And Jack basically wanting to commit suicide because of the guilt of leaving those people behind.  Now Hurley is expendable?  Nope, sorry, doesn't sit well with me.

What? How did you come to the conclusion that Jack was wanting to "commit suicide" due to guilt of the people left behind? Seriously, I have ZERO idea where you got that from.

I think the reference was to when bearded, strung-out Jack was going to jump off the bridge, before he got distracted by having to rescue the people who were in the car crash.

Again, the idea that the "entire point of season 5" was to get everyone off the island is false.

Not entirely false -- your examples show that Kate went back to get Claire to bring her back to Aaron, and Sun went back to get Jin and bring him back.  I think Jack started out by thinking he had to go back to "rescue" everyone and at that point he thought it probably meant he had to bring them back with him, not that he'd have to do what he ended up doing.  Hurley, Sayid, Lapidus, Ben... yeah, not coming back for a rescue so much, I agree.
You're apparently the only one who understood my simple argument.

Yeah, here I am thinking your simple arguement was the characters felt "Hurley was expendable". Silly me.

Yeah, I guess I misunderstood the statement "Now Hurley is expendable?" as meaning the characters thought--wait for it--Hurley was expendable lol. Not sure how I could have become so confused. ;)
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: Madam P on May 31, 2010, 02:51:04 PM
You're apparently the only one who understood my simple argument.

Yeah, well, we seem to think along the same lines a lot of the time.  Not so sure that's a cause for celebration (on your part, at least) though.   ;D   ;)
Title: Re: Unnecessary Escape...
Post by: LouE68 on June 04, 2010, 09:01:49 PM
I was think it was a necessary escape to help prove they all didnt die at once...