Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x16 => Topic started by: anavrin on May 24, 2010, 12:08:25 PM

Title: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: anavrin on May 24, 2010, 12:08:25 PM
I'm aggravated. And I'm not alone. For the past six years, several million viewers and I have anxiously awaited and devoured each new episode of what was one of the best and most clever television shows of all time. We followed loyally. We ate up the side games and webisodes, hoping for additional clues. We sought out screen captures and grasped onto the Easter Eggs, trying to solve the mystery before they could tell us. We spent our late Wednesday nights dwelling on theories, unable to sleep, and spent our Thursdays hashing things out with our friends, real and "imaginary."

For six years, we followed along, trying to piece it all together, with the promise of answers. An end in sight. The greatly-anticipated finale. Well, we should have known that it wasn't going to go well when we still had so many old questions looming with half a dozen episodes left. With three episodes left. Two. One. There was no way to wrap up such an enormous and complicated plot with so many unanswered questions in just two hours.

What is perhaps the main point of my frustration came to me on the brink of sleep last night, after an hour of brooding. So much of the plot of this series was focussed on the island and its mysteries. Executive producers Damon Lindelof and Cameron Cuse even said, in the commentary to the first season on DVD, that a critical point to this series was that the *island* was a main character of the show. Yet, when it came to the finale, precious few questions were answered about the island at all. Instead, we got to see everyone come together in the "flash sideways" (which was, admittedly, gratifying) only to learn that it's just where they ended up after they all died. What?!

Even if I buy that theory, I felt cheated to have that all patly wrapped up in the last 10 minutes of the show AND I feel downright raw at the questions that the writers and producers left unanswered. To me, it felt like the producers were back in college, writing the ace answer to an essay exam, and then looked up to see 5 minutes left on the clock before they had to hand in their blue books. Ninety-five percent of what was written was spot-on and a the very top of the game, but the last bit was crammed in to fit into time constraints, leaving a large gap in details between the body of the work and the conclusory paragraph.

I wonder whether this is to some extent a reflection of the 2007-2008 Writers' Strike, which (if I remember correctly) cost Lost between five and eight episodes in its 4th season. While the plotlines in some of those shows seemed a little hurried, shouldn't they have been able to recover that ground in two years? Or was this always the plan? The cynical side of me believes that the plan may be even more devious and greedy, requiring folks to purchase the DVD set to gain the answers not freely given on last night's broadcast, an idea which gains some backing form the MTV News headline this morning, "'Lost' Creators Promise More Answers After The Finale."

In any case, I will miss this show, which I anticipated with glee every week. I will likely buy the season 6 DVDs to round out my collection. I'll miss these characters, which the "finale preview" correctly pegged as people we've come to know and love over the years. But I don't know that I'll ever be able to look back on this series fondly as long as the enormous list of questions remains unanswered.  And I don't know that I'll ever go back and watch the series through again, as I had hoped to do to connect all of the dots and clues and Easter Eggs together.  There is no "Aha!" moment, like in the movie The Sixth Sense, that would allow me to go back and watch the entire season with a new vision.  Now that I know that the dots and Easter Eggs were not clues at all, what's the point?
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: MachThree on May 24, 2010, 12:16:59 PM
I understand your frustration.  I felt frustrated too as I started to realize that answers would not be forthcoming.  But then I accepted that and just tried to go along with the ride.  I thought the finale was excellent, given what they tried to do with it.  But a lot of people wanted answers, not what they ended up doing, and I can certainly see how this leaves them feeling unfulfilled. 

I think Darlton's biggest mistake was not being more forthright with the viewers a long time ago.  They waited until at least halfway through season 6 before they started hinting there may be no answers.  Meanwhile, they posed more and more questions, and dangled the promise of answers to get people to watch and, yes, make money for themselves and ABC.  So eevn though I think from the audience's standpoint it was a mistake, and if Darlton actually gave a damn about the audience, they'd think it was a mistake, in reality I think they're laughing all the way to the bank and think themselves to have done perfectly.

At this point I'd probably say something like "even though they seem like nice guys" - only, to be honest, they don't.  Most of the time in interviews, they come off as snarky, arrogant smart-asses, talking down to people who don't know the grand inside joke that only the two of them are privy to.     
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 24, 2010, 12:31:35 PM
Happiness and unhappiness in life boils down to one word: Expectations.  When we create them, whether it be for our significant other, kids, friends, our leaders, etc, we are just setting our selves up for disappointment and unhappiness.  Especially, when we create unrealistic expectations for others.  If the expectation is met, (which it rarely fully is) we think, "I expected that.  How boring"  When they go unmet we think, "How could I be let down like that? I'm upset"  If they are exceeded we think, "Awesome! I feel great."   So, what's the secret to happiness.  Don't have any expectations.  That's not saying have low expectations.  It's just saying, appreciate what's been given you.  There were a multitude of expectations set for the ending of Lost.  It would be impossible for the writer's to met them all.  Those that were the happiest, were those that enjoyed the story for what it was.  And when considered in the light of most other shows, Lost's ending was amazing and I feel great!
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: Maxor127 on May 24, 2010, 12:38:29 PM
They said the island was a character on the show.  Vincent was a character too.  Your problem is that you were too focused on the mysteries.  When you think about most of the things they didn't answer, while they might be cool to know, they wouldn't have affected the story and there was really no organic way to answer a lot of those questions.  If they were to just explain a lot of the lingering mysteries on a dvd, that would be cool.  But I don't think the show should've revolved around answering those mysteries.  They probably could've connected some of the mysteries together in a cohesive whole better, but oh well.  There are only a couple lingering mysteries that I think they really should've spent time on, like mystery boat shooting at them during the flash.  I feel it could've all connected better.  But still, a minor complaint.

I do think the finale could've been better though and I can understand why people would be frustrated with the whole alt timeline thing.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: vickilynn on May 24, 2010, 12:41:43 PM
Let's face it, our world is full of mysteries that may (or may not) get answered at some point in our progression. I don't want some show's writers to answer those life mysteries for me, because at this point it is all subjective anyway.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 24, 2010, 12:43:15 PM
I thought it was pretty obvious that it was Jacob's group on the Ajira plane that shot at them?  Because they stole their boat...
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 24, 2010, 12:45:57 PM
Let's face it, our world is full of mysteries that may (or may not) get answered at some point in our progression. I don't want some show's writers to answer those life mysteries for me, because at this point it is all subjective anyway.

True, answering all the question would have destroyed the mysticism of the show... We can now answer those questions ourselves with our own imaginations which will always meet our expectations :)
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: anavrin on May 24, 2010, 12:48:00 PM
They said the island was a character on the show.  Vincent was a character too.  Your problem is that you were too focused on the mysteries.  When you think about most of the things they didn't answer, while they might be cool to know, they wouldn't have affected the story and there was really no organic way to answer a lot of those questions.  If they were to just explain a lot of the lingering mysteries on a dvd, that would be cool.  But I don't think the show should've revolved around answering those mysteries.  They probably could've connected some of the mysteries together in a cohesive whole better, but oh well.  There are only a couple lingering mysteries that I think they really should've spent time on, like mystery boat shooting at them during the flash.  I feel it could've all connected better.  But still, a minor complaint.

I do think the finale could've been better though and I can understand why people would be frustrated with the whole alt timeline thing.

But the mysteries are what kept us watching for years.  The whole "all these people are linked and meet up in some nether space after they all die" is completely unsatisfying and, frankly, quite trite after 6 years.  Did we really watch for six years to be satisfied with "we all live our life and meet up with important people after we die?"  I didn't.  The story was interesting precisely because of the mysteries of the island and the strange people whom the Losties encountered.  I had no great emotional moment when Jack was talking with his father and realized that he and everyone in that "reality" were dead.  Just joining in the great collective groan.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: opgelost on May 24, 2010, 12:54:27 PM
I liked it. They didn't give a single answer.
It's like life. You have to find your own answers, your own way to explain things and find your own meaning.
Everybody saw his own version of Lost the last 6 years. There is not just one truth, there are a lot and the makers
are not going to tell us which one is right.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: opgelost on May 24, 2010, 12:55:34 PM
Let's face it, our world is full of mysteries that may (or may not) get answered at some point in our progression. I don't want some show's writers to answer those life mysteries for me, because at this point it is all subjective anyway.

True, answering all the question would have destroyed the mysticism of the show... We can now answer those questions ourselves with our own imaginations which will always meet our expectations :)

Like a selfcreated timeline?
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: KoKoNut on May 24, 2010, 12:56:48 PM
I have to agree with anavrin. I feel  the same.

I was invested in the characters and was so happy that they were all reunited. Used up half a box of Kleenex at each reunion.

But then the ending itself. How they explained it all? Really?  I mean, am I that jaded? OMG, I'm going to hell aren't I?  

I understand they couldn't explain all the mysteries. It's just...for me, it felt like they didn't explain really anything at all.  I don't know how to express it. I just feel like it was wrapped up so quickly and I"m sorry...so generically. Ugh.

I'm glad that most people were happy with the ending. I just wish I were one of them.  :(
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 24, 2010, 12:56:55 PM
Let's face it, our world is full of mysteries that may (or may not) get answered at some point in our progression. I don't want some show's writers to answer those life mysteries for me, because at this point it is all subjective anyway.

True, answering all the question would have destroyed the mysticism of the show... We can now answer those questions ourselves with our own imaginations which will always meet our expectations :)

Like a selfcreated timeline?

Maybe after we die, we can all meet up in the afterlife and answer all the questions of Lost ;)
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: vickilynn on May 24, 2010, 01:01:17 PM
I liked it. They didn't give a single answer.
It's like life. You have to find your own answers, your own way to explain things and find your own meaning.
Everybody saw his own version of Lost the last 6 years. There is not just one truth, there are a lot and the makers
are not going to tell us which one is right.
I like this!
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: lostlady on May 24, 2010, 01:07:21 PM
I liked it. They didn't give a single answer.
It's like life. You have to find your own answers, your own way to explain things and find your own meaning.
Everybody saw his own version of Lost the last 6 years. There is not just one truth, there are a lot and the makers
are not going to tell us which one is right.
I like this!

Yes, perfectly said!
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: anavrin on May 24, 2010, 01:11:27 PM
It still felt like two completely different stories.

It didn't matter what happened on the island.  Might as well have been the cast of The Office or Seinfeld or Babylon 5 or anything else, any 50 people who have something in common, then tack on 10 minutes at the end where they all meet up after they've died.  Why bother to weave such a compelling story about this mystic island if it's not germane to the conclusion?  If you're not going to tell us anything about it?  It feels as if the Sideways was the story they wanted to tell all along and the island is throwaway, which stinks because the island is what kept a large lot of us watching.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 24, 2010, 01:15:43 PM
It still felt like two completely different stories.

It didn't matter what happened on the island.  Might as well have been the cast of The Office or Seinfeld or Babylon 5 or anything else, any 50 people who have something in common, then tack on 10 minutes at the end where they all meet up after they've died.  Why bother to weave such a compelling story about this mystic island if it's not germane to the conclusion?  If you're not going to tell us anything about it?  It feels as if the Sideways was the story they wanted to tell all along and the island is throwaway, which stinks because the island is what kept a large lot of us watching.

I felt just the opposite.  The Sideways was throwaway.  And was just thrown in there to do something different the last season.  The island story was still the real story and ended ok...
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: opgelost on May 24, 2010, 01:23:02 PM
Oh no, if it ended with the islandstory I would not have liked it.
I loved the selfcreated world where they got what they wanted
and had time to do things over.
Whatever happened happened, but with a second chance to become happy.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 01:30:05 PM
Happiness and unhappiness in life boils down to one word: Expectations.  When we create them, whether it be for our significant other, kids, friends, our leaders, etc, we are just setting our selves up for disappointment and unhappiness.  Especially, when we create unrealistic expectations for others.  If the expectation is met, (which it rarely fully is) we think, "I expected that.  How boring"  When they go unmet we think, "How could I be let down like that? I'm upset"  If they are exceeded we think, "Awesome! I feel great."   So, what's the secret to happiness.  Don't have any expectations.  That's not saying have low expectations.  It's just saying, appreciate what's been given you.  There were a multitude of expectations set for the ending of Lost.  It would be impossible for the writer's to met them all.  Those that were the happiest, were those that enjoyed the story for what it was.  And when considered in the light of most other shows, Lost's ending was amazing and I feel great!

Its like you stole my post. Thank you for writing it for me.


As for the Thread starter there, I am sorry you feel the way you do about a truly perfect finale. Invoking ideas that a writer may have had 6 years ago about the Island being a central character? Really? They also though Eko was going to play a big part in the finale too. Things happen over the course of writing a show and in many cases it writes itself. I think the Island was a central character in the show. Now if you were expecting it to have lines, you are a bit mistaken, but it certainly was an important character. It healed the sick, performed miracles, and prevented women from carrying children full term. All of which played a central part in our story. The Questions that needed answering were answered. I guess I always go back to the question I have. If you could put YOUR ending on it, what would you have done differently?  That question is usually very hard to answer without taking something away from the show. I say a far less gratifying ending would have been one similar to 6th sense, because it's stale. Its been done before. I can honestly not think of a story similar to the way LOST ended. I didn't want a stale ending. Endings are exclusive to the story they are written for. If you try to throw the same twist 6th sense had, or a similar ending if you will, you aren't affected the same way because you've seen it before.We were treated to a story involving the most important peices of our characters lives. In the end they all had to find each other and accept their deaths before they could move on. It was poignent and poetic. Everyone coming together with their greatest love that they found on the island, and Jack having a realization when he touched his father's coffin.  The man who all series preached about how he was angry with his father, we find out at the end it was only the love between them that could help Jack realize his death and move on. A woman who killed her own son, trying desperately to hold on to him and keep him from the realization. It was poetic.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: KoKoNut on May 24, 2010, 01:35:24 PM
I'm glad the characters had resolution. I wanted them to be happy!

But I understand what anavrin is saying as well.  I guess I'm supposed to buy into that the island is a mystery and that it will remain a mystery. And all that happened with Dharma and Hanso and whatnot just didn't matter. Ugh. I hate feeling this way.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 01:38:40 PM
Dharma mattered because without them the conditions would not have been in place for the failsafe key to have the side effect it did. Without that side effect MiB wins because he stays invincible.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: KoKoNut on May 24, 2010, 01:52:09 PM
Ah okay. Help me out IAJ. Maybe you can give me some resolution some other questions.

How was it that our Losties all were connected BEFORE the plane crash...before we were introduced to Jacob and MIB. Like how in the first seasons we saw that they were all somehow connected? Was that a Jacob thing?

And was Aaron already dead? And what of Sun and Jin's baby? 

I'm so confused.  :-\
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 02:01:35 PM
Ah okay. Help me out IAJ. Maybe you can give me some resolution some other questions.

How was it that our Losties all were connected BEFORE the plane crash...before we were introduced to Jacob and MIB. Like how in the first seasons we saw that they were all somehow connected? Was that a Jacob thing?

And was Aaron already dead? And what of Sun and Jin's baby? 

I'm so confused.  :-\

The Losties were connectecd to one another by fate. They were always destined to be on that flight. That's the way I see it. Libby and Hurley spent time together in Santa Rosa, and then again they weer on the plane together. Its similar to that car you always seem to be on the road with on your way into work. Or the regular place you go to lunch on the regular day just HAPPENS to line up with a similar visit.

Aaron and Ji Yeon grew up with other families, and thus those children were not a part of the family unit that was crossing over. Could explain the dire need for Claire to raise him.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: MachThree on May 24, 2010, 02:03:28 PM
I think the island was important, in that it provided the setting and the environment for the character's journeys.  They grew, matured, and changed due to the circumstances they were thrust into on the island, including all the crazy stuff on the island that they had to deal with. 
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: lostlady on May 24, 2010, 02:03:52 PM
Ah okay. Help me out IAJ. Maybe you can give me some resolution some other questions.

How was it that our Losties all were connected BEFORE the plane crash...before we were introduced to Jacob and MIB. Like how in the first seasons we saw that they were all somehow connected? Was that a Jacob thing?

And was Aaron already dead? And what of Sun and Jin's baby? 

I'm so confused.  :-\

The Losties were connectecd to one another by fate. They were always destined to be on that flight. That's the way I see it. Libby and Hurley spent time together in Santa Rosa, and then again they weer on the plane together. Its similar to that car you always seem to be on the road with on your way into work. Or the regular place you go to lunch on the regular day just HAPPENS to line up with a similar visit.

Aaron and Ji Yeon grew up with other families, and thus those children were not a part of the family unit that was crossing over. Could explain the dire need for Claire to raise him.

Agree with you IAJ except that Aaron did grow up with Claire and probably "Aunt Kate". The Ajira flight made it back.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: KoKoNut on May 24, 2010, 02:05:54 PM
Keep talking me down off the ledge guys. That's why I'm here!!!!!!!!!!!!  :D

Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 24, 2010, 02:09:51 PM
Happiness and unhappiness in life boils down to one word: Expectations.  When we create them, whether it be for our significant other, kids, friends, our leaders, etc, we are just setting our selves up for disappointment and unhappiness.  Especially, when we create unrealistic expectations for others.  If the expectation is met, (which it rarely fully is) we think, "I expected that.  How boring"  When they go unmet we think, "How could I be let down like that? I'm upset"  If they are exceeded we think, "Awesome! I feel great."   So, what's the secret to happiness.  Don't have any expectations.  That's not saying have low expectations.  It's just saying, appreciate what's been given you.  There were a multitude of expectations set for the ending of Lost.  It would be impossible for the writer's to met them all.  Those that were the happiest, were those that enjoyed the story for what it was.  And when considered in the light of most other shows, Lost's ending was amazing and I feel great!

Bingo! Dude, you hit it again.

Being a hardcore Star Wars fan, this was the lesson I learned over the course of watching the prequels. I carried this lesson over to Lost. I wanted to go into each episode as much of a blank slate as possible. Though I had my theories and predictions, I still would just let the show wash over me.

I think alot of people wanted details to not only be given but to be deeply profound. For example, remember the polar bear that was 1 of the major mysteries of season 1? (Did Walt create it, etc.) Well, we find out later, that it was just a polar bear brought there by Dharma, nothing really important or magical. On the other hand, the crazy monster we saw knocking down trees at the beginning was something really important and magical. Thats been the way of the show.

Also, some of the details shouldn't be given. I like using the example of the briefcase in Pulp Fiction. The movie was better for NOT showing us what was inside.

In the End, it truely did exceed my expectations. Never before have I enjoyed a show so much, and it's hard to imagine ever watching a show that will come close.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: lostfan777 on May 24, 2010, 02:40:01 PM
But the mysteries are what kept us watching for years.  The whole "all these people are linked and meet up in some nether space after they all die" is completely unsatisfying and, frankly, quite trite after 6 years.  Did we really watch for six years to be satisfied with "we all live our life and meet up with important people after we die?"  I didn't.  The story was interesting precisely because of the mysteries of the island and the strange people whom the Losties encountered.  I had no great emotional moment when Jack was talking with his father and realized that he and everyone in that "reality" were dead.  Just joining in the great collective groan.

I understand what you're saying here about the mysteries, but I'm leaving feeling that they answered enough questions for me to put together my own ideas of what else happened.  I'm not disappointed at all.  And you certainly have the right to feel disappointed, you are, after all, the viewing public and part of the target audience, but I think you've exaggerated the 'great collective groan'.  I think your groans are completely lost in the 'great collective sobs' of all the satisfied viewers who felt the emotion the finale was meant to express and the sadness of letting go of what has become a part of our lives for six years.  It's too bad that you feel that it was a wasted journey.  :-\
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: lostlady on May 24, 2010, 02:52:03 PM
But the mysteries are what kept us watching for years.  The whole "all these people are linked and meet up in some nether space after they all die" is completely unsatisfying and, frankly, quite trite after 6 years.  Did we really watch for six years to be satisfied with "we all live our life and meet up with important people after we die?"  I didn't.  The story was interesting precisely because of the mysteries of the island and the strange people whom the Losties encountered.  I had no great emotional moment when Jack was talking with his father and realized that he and everyone in that "reality" were dead.  Just joining in the great collective groan.

I understand what you're saying here about the mysteries, but I'm leaving feeling that they answered enough questions for me to put together my own ideas of what else happened.  I'm not disappointed at all.  And you certainly have the right to feel disappointed, you are, after all, the viewing public and part of the target audience, but I think you've exaggerated the 'great collective groan'.  I think your groans are completely lost in the 'great collective sobs' of all the satisfied viewers who felt the emotion the finale was meant to express and the sadness of letting go of what has become a part of our lives for six years.  It's too bad that you feel that it was a wasted journey.  :-\

Agree 100%
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: louisianagirl76l on May 24, 2010, 02:52:08 PM
I wrote this somewhere else but I'll paste it here too:

 They didn't dumb it down...they kept the feeling of LOST through to The End. I don't care about the little details....In the grand scheme it doesn't matter. I think the crash scene at the end was nothing more than footage from season one....They all lived on the island...that was all real. Don't read too far into that because it will just ruin things for you.
I'm really trying to take the writers advice and "Let go".... "Move on". If you hated the finale I do feel bad for you because I would guess you feel cheated... but you have to think about what kept you here after all this time. It was about the journey of these characters that we all connected to and not just the Answers.

Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 02:52:47 PM
Ah okay. Help me out IAJ. Maybe you can give me some resolution some other questions.

How was it that our Losties all were connected BEFORE the plane crash...before we were introduced to Jacob and MIB. Like how in the first seasons we saw that they were all somehow connected? Was that a Jacob thing?

And was Aaron already dead? And what of Sun and Jin's baby? 

I'm so confused.  :-\

The Losties were connectecd to one another by fate. They were always destined to be on that flight. That's the way I see it. Libby and Hurley spent time together in Santa Rosa, and then again they weer on the plane together. Its similar to that car you always seem to be on the road with on your way into work. Or the regular place you go to lunch on the regular day just HAPPENS to line up with a similar visit.

Aaron and Ji Yeon grew up with other families, and thus those children were not a part of the family unit that was crossing over. Could explain the dire need for Claire to raise him.

Agree with you IAJ except that Aaron did grow up with Claire and probably "Aunt Kate". The Ajira flight made it back.

Touche. I'm losing my touch. Can't remember where I'm typing things. HAHA
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: lostlady on May 24, 2010, 02:55:33 PM
No, you are not losing your touch you are just distracted with the people who are out of touch and somehow believe that MIB=David!!  :D
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: sobrien on May 24, 2010, 02:57:45 PM
Lost was a sow that as it went on it created new layers to wrap around the original story of a plane wreck on a deserted island.  Plot-wise it was a maze that was constantly evolving and becoming more complex (weird), but it was done for the purpose of showcasing the characters.  How would our rats run through this new, more complex maze?  Surely, at some point the decision was made that as layers were added (especially the weirder ones) there was no possibility of collapsing back to a point that could be explained.  There are an unreasonable number of questions that have been raised to ever settle then within the confines of the show.  Each "answer" was regressive because it posed more questions.  The problem with the last season and maybe even the last two seasons, is that the weird plot overshadowed the characters.  What weird thing can happen next replaced characterization.

To me, the sideways universe/flashsideways/alt universe/limbo construct was a way to focus on the characters again.  There was no weirdness in the alt universe (except the underlying premise that it didn't exist).  That plot line allowed us to see the characters that we knew act with the core of their true selves.  The reason we cared about these characters in the sideways universe was because we had grown to care about them in the Lost world.

So, I kind of liked the sideways/reward/way-station universe sub plot.  I thought it was OK.  It is NOT a resolution of the questions of the island and in many ways was a diversion - a way to put the telling stories about characters genie back into the bottle and that was OK.

As for the Island main plot, I think that was more of a failure - too many layers of weird that were not developed or resolved (they shot a polar bear in the first episode for heaven's sake...).  My one reservation with that assessment is Hurley and Ben - the odd couple protectors.  

Side rant:  Jacob brought people to the island 1:  to replace him and 2:  for "the game."  It seems to be if he hadn't done #2, he wouldn't need #1.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 24, 2010, 03:01:41 PM
Side rant:  Jacob brought people to the island 1:  to replace him and 2:  for "the game."  It seems to be if he hadn't done #2, he wouldn't need #1.

Not true.  He would always need a replacement, because he'd eventually want to move on himself.  The "game" was, in my opinion, more of a product of Mother's doing than Jacob's.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on May 24, 2010, 03:04:20 PM
Side rant:  Jacob brought people to the island 1:  to replace him and 2:  for "the game."  It seems to be if he hadn't done #2, he wouldn't need #1.

Not true.  He would always need a replacement, because he'd eventually want to move on himself.  The "game" was, in my opinion, more of a product of Mother's doing than Jacob's.
Good point.  I totally agree about "The Game"

I will say that I liked it that the rules that were in place when Jacob was the keeper of the Island were all subject to change--as we found out when Hurley took over.  That was a nice little surprise.

cheers
*Des8
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: sobrien on May 24, 2010, 03:05:01 PM
Side rant:  Jacob brought people to the island 1:  to replace him and 2:  for "the game."  It seems to be if he hadn't done #2, he wouldn't need #1.

Not true.  He would always need a replacement, because he'd eventually want to move on himself.  The "game" was, in my opinion, more of a product of Mother's doing than Jacob's.

I disagree.  It was clear that MIB/brother wanted to move on, Jacob did not.  Jacob being on the island, fundamentally alone, was all he ever really knew.  Jacob excluded himself from the camp that MIB went to (and let's not get into who were they and how did they get there as an unanswered question that was created for no reason); Jacob did not need a replacement until he created the conditions for MIB to kill him - that created the need for a replacement.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 24, 2010, 03:11:26 PM
Side rant:  Jacob brought people to the island 1:  to replace him and 2:  for "the game."  It seems to be if he hadn't done #2, he wouldn't need #1.

Not true.  He would always need a replacement, because he'd eventually want to move on himself.  The "game" was, in my opinion, more of a product of Mother's doing than Jacob's.

(and let's not get into who were they and how did they get there as an unanswered question that was created for no reason

While you are at it, Who is Mother's mother? Why did the Temple have a courtyard? Why did the sky turn purple and not green or yellow when Desmond turned the key?

Some questions are just not important. There's plenty of deeper philosophical questions the show created that were purposefully left unaswered for us to draw out own conclusions. (i.e. the relationship between destiny and free will)
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: sobrien on May 24, 2010, 03:14:27 PM
Side rant:  Jacob brought people to the island 1:  to replace him and 2:  for "the game."  It seems to be if he hadn't done #2, he wouldn't need #1.

Not true.  He would always need a replacement, because he'd eventually want to move on himself.  The "game" was, in my opinion, more of a product of Mother's doing than Jacob's.
Good point.  I totally agree about "The Game"

I will say that I liked it that the rules that were in place when Jacob was the keeper of the Island were all subject to change--as we found out when Hurley took over.  That was a nice little surprise.

cheers
*Des8

Why didn't Hurley heal Jack as his first act as the new protector?  Hurley let Jack die?
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: lostlady on May 24, 2010, 03:16:29 PM
Side rant:  Jacob brought people to the island 1:  to replace him and 2:  for "the game."  It seems to be if he hadn't done #2, he wouldn't need #1.

Not true.  He would always need a replacement, because he'd eventually want to move on himself.  The "game" was, in my opinion, more of a product of Mother's doing than Jacob's.
Good point.  I totally agree about "The Game"

I will say that I liked it that the rules that were in place when Jacob was the keeper of the Island were all subject to change--as we found out when Hurley took over.  That was a nice little surprise.

cheers
*Des8

Why didn't Hurley heal Jack as his first act as the new protector?  Hurley let Jack die?

Don't blame Hurley for Jack dying! lol There are probably a bunch of reasons why he didn't and the reality is that it doesn't matter. It was Jack's time.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 24, 2010, 03:16:51 PM
Side rant:  Jacob brought people to the island 1:  to replace him and 2:  for "the game."  It seems to be if he hadn't done #2, he wouldn't need #1.

Not true.  He would always need a replacement, because he'd eventually want to move on himself.  The "game" was, in my opinion, more of a product of Mother's doing than Jacob's.

I disagree.  It was clear that MIB/brother wanted to move on, Jacob did not.  Jacob being on the island, fundamentally alone, was all he ever really knew.  Jacob excluded himself from the camp that MIB went to (and let's not get into who were they and how did they get there as an unanswered question that was created for no reason); Jacob did not need a replacement until he created the conditions for MIB to kill him - that created the need for a replacement.

But Mother set the conditions for MIB not being able to kill Jacob.  MIB always wanted to kill Jacob and Jacob knew he'd eventually find a loophole.  Yes, Jacob accidentally turn MIB into Smokey, but it wasn't what he wanted.  He didn't create Smokey on purpose and cause Smokey to want kill to him.  The "game" was not create by Jacob, though he played it really well...
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 24, 2010, 03:19:53 PM
Plus, I think Jacob did want to move on... He finished burning his ashes so that he could...
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 03:28:52 PM
Also, Jacob knew MiB may find a loophole. Probably wanted someone in place before the loophole was found.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: sobrien on May 24, 2010, 03:39:17 PM
Also, Jacob knew MiB may find a loophole. Probably wanted someone in place before the loophole was found.

Jacob, and only Jacob seemed to have the power to provide the loophole.  The rules of the game were never clear and got even more murky after Jacks coronation - then Hurley's rules kicked in?  Did we ever really see what Jacob's powers were?  Was Jacob like Desmond - able to see the future but unable to change it?  Otherwise having a successor "in place before the loophole was found" seems foolish.

Like Heroes showed, writing characters with great power is far more difficult than imagined.  I think Jacob/MIB suffered from this.  When it was convenient for them to be super powered they were, when the plot needed a weakness, BAM there it was.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 03:41:41 PM
Jacob didn't even know all the rules. Hence why he was bringing candidates. He didn't know what the restrictions were.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on May 24, 2010, 04:36:01 PM
honestly i want to know what you wanted them to answer.   To me it was great.  I got all the answers i needed.   

What questions  were not answered??
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: doubleon19 on May 24, 2010, 04:48:32 PM
I have to agree with the haters... I felt totally cheated! It seems last night's ending would have been fine actually welcomed if there had been a couple more episodes in between. I have no problem with them meeting again and moving on together but I feel duped. I watched each episode several times checking this website for easter eggs... titles of books, the numbers, I don't have to list I'm sure you all did the same thing.... looking at screencaps etc and for what???? Over and over  Darlton vehemetly denied time travel parallel universes and purgatory.... really guys??? I have to agree with the poster who said it seemed rushed like the finale snuck up on them and they phoned it in. I along with many fans were totally invested thought that the true followers who sifted through all the clues would be rewarded instead we are left with a collective HUH? I think the writers screwed us plain and simple they led us down a path where we thought the end is going to wow us all our questions will be answered and our devotion would be rewarded instead they did not care that the questions they posed were answered or not and just cashed their paycheck. And the poster who said he would rather come up with his own answers that is not what we signed up for. They made the island the main character and then never explained why. There are so many unanswered questions. Why continue to pose them if you as the writer and creator have no intention of bringing them to a conclusion. I totally agree with the poster who mentioned the sixth sense I also was expecting an aha moment that would cause me to watch the seasons over again with new fervor. If the writers strike had that big of an impact then they should've lengthened the season and recovered. And if there is a full length as rumored I will not be spending my $10 to watch it no matter how much it promises to satisfy my questions. To those that liked it if you're truly honest you will admit that they took too long to get there NOT answering questions. I have no problem with that finale AFTER the mysteries were solved.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: doubleon19 on May 24, 2010, 04:49:23 PM
I have to agree with the haters... I felt totally cheated! It seems last night's ending would have been fine actually welcomed if there had been a couple more episodes in between. I have no problem with them meeting again and moving on together but I feel duped. I watched each episode several times checking this website for easter eggs... titles of books, the numbers, I don't have to list I'm sure you all did the same thing.... looking at screencaps etc and for what???? Over and over  Darlton vehemetly denied time travel parallel universes and purgatory.... really guys??? I have to agree with the poster who said it seemed rushed like the finale snuck up on them and they phoned it in. I along with many fans were totally invested thought that the true followers who sifted through all the clues would be rewarded instead we are left with a collective HUH? I think the writers screwed us plain and simple they led us down a path where we thought the end is going to wow us all our questions will be answered and our devotion would be rewarded instead they did not care that the questions they posed were answered or not and just cashed their paycheck. And the poster who said he would rather come up with his own answers that is not what we signed up for. They made the island the main character and then never explained why. There are so many unanswered questions. Why continue to pose them if you as the writer and creator have no intention of bringing them to a conclusion. I totally agree with the poster who mentioned the sixth sense I also was expecting an aha moment that would cause me to watch the seasons over again with new fervor. If the writers strike had that big of an impact then they should've lengthened the season and recovered. And if there is a full length as rumored I will not be spending my $10 to watch it no matter how much it promises to satisfy my questions. To those that liked it if you're truly honest you will admit that they took too long to get there NOT answering questions. I have no problem with that finale AFTER the mysteries were solved.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 04:54:57 PM
I have to agree with the haters... I felt totally cheated! It seems last night's ending would have been fine actually welcomed if there had been a couple more episodes in between. I have no problem with them meeting again and moving on together but I feel duped. I watched each episode several times checking this website for easter eggs... titles of books, the numbers, I don't have to list I'm sure you all did the same thing.... looking at screencaps etc and for what???? Over and over  Darlton vehemetly denied time travel parallel universes and purgatory.... really guys??? I have to agree with the poster who said it seemed rushed like the finale snuck up on them and they phoned it in. I along with many fans were totally invested thought that the true followers who sifted through all the clues would be rewarded instead we are left with a collective HUH? I think the writers screwed us plain and simple they led us down a path where we thought the end is going to wow us all our questions will be answered and our devotion would be rewarded instead they did not care that the questions they posed were answered or not and just cashed their paycheck. And the poster who said he would rather come up with his own answers that is not what we signed up for. They made the island the main character and then never explained why. There are so many unanswered questions. Why continue to pose them if you as the writer and creator have no intention of bringing them to a conclusion. I totally agree with the poster who mentioned the sixth sense I also was expecting an aha moment that would cause me to watch the seasons over again with new fervor. If the writers strike had that big of an impact then they should've lengthened the season and recovered. And if there is a full length as rumored I will not be spending my $10 to watch it no matter how much it promises to satisfy my questions. To those that liked it if you're truly honest you will admit that they took too long to get there NOT answering questions. I have no problem with that finale AFTER the mysteries were solved.


Alright. Like was posted just before you there. What other questions did you want answered? Honestly. I think there is a bit of an issue when you scream for answers and you don't really clarify which answers you want. Alot of those questions WE made ourselves. All the books for example. There isn't really a way to throw in the narrative that all the books that they were reading through the show were really only nods to the writers inspiration. Also the Vehemet denial could probably be explained by the "Crap they guessed it. Well lets just lie so we don't spoil everything" theory. But seriously, not qualms or anything, but there really isn't a single question I can see central to the story left unanswered.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 24, 2010, 05:21:29 PM
They made the island the main character and then never explained why.

Nope, the Island was never the main character. It was a character though, which is kinda of cool for an inanimate object. The ending, with the island falling apart around the characters, about to sink into the ocean, then Jack saving the Island, was pretty damn dramatic if you ask me.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 05:25:35 PM
They made the island the main character and then never explained why.

Nope, the Island was never the main character. It was a character though, which is kinda of cool for an inanimate object. The ending, with the island falling apart around the characters, about to sink into the ocean, then Jack saving the Island, was pretty damn dramatic if you ask me.

He wanted the Island to have lines. He'd be like the character from Neverending Story. They looked like strong hands.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 24, 2010, 05:29:49 PM
They made the island the main character and then never explained why.

Nope, the Island was never the main character. It was a character though, which is kinda of cool for an inanimate object. The ending, with the island falling apart around the characters, about to sink into the ocean, then Jack saving the Island, was pretty damn dramatic if you ask me.

He wanted the Island to have lines. He'd be like the character from Neverending Story. They looked like strong hands.

Would that make the Hydra island his little kid in the crappy sequel?
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 05:30:42 PM
They made the island the main character and then never explained why.

Nope, the Island was never the main character. It was a character though, which is kinda of cool for an inanimate object. The ending, with the island falling apart around the characters, about to sink into the ocean, then Jack saving the Island, was pretty damn dramatic if you ask me.

He wanted the Island to have lines. He'd be like the character from Neverending Story. They looked like strong hands.

Would that make the Hydra island his little kid in the crappy sequel?

Yep. Oceanic would be Falcore
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 24, 2010, 05:31:46 PM
They made the island the main character and then never explained why.

Nope, the Island was never the main character. It was a character though, which is kinda of cool for an inanimate object. The ending, with the island falling apart around the characters, about to sink into the ocean, then Jack saving the Island, was pretty damn dramatic if you ask me.

He wanted the Island to have lines. He'd be like the character from Neverending Story. They looked like strong hands.

Would that make the Hydra island his little kid in the crappy sequel?

Yep. Oceanic would be Falcore

Whoa, then MIB would be the princess and we have to give her a name.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 05:34:03 PM
They made the island the main character and then never explained why.

Nope, the Island was never the main character. It was a character though, which is kinda of cool for an inanimate object. The ending, with the island falling apart around the characters, about to sink into the ocean, then Jack saving the Island, was pretty damn dramatic if you ask me.

He wanted the Island to have lines. He'd be like the character from Neverending Story. They looked like strong hands.

Would that make the Hydra island his little kid in the crappy sequel?

Yep. Oceanic would be Falcore

Whoa, then MIB would be the princess and we have to give her a name.


HAHAHAH   :D
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: Madam P on May 24, 2010, 06:03:32 PM
I understand your frustration.  I felt frustrated too as I started to realize that answers would not be forthcoming.  But then I accepted that and just tried to go along with the ride.  I thought the finale was excellent, given what they tried to do with it.  But a lot of people wanted answers, not what they ended up doing, and I can certainly see how this leaves them feeling unfulfilled. 

I think Darlton's biggest mistake was not being more forthright with the viewers a long time ago.  They waited until at least halfway through season 6 before they started hinting there may be no answers.  Meanwhile, they posed more and more questions, and dangled the promise of answers to get people to watch and, yes, make money for themselves and ABC.  So even though I think from the audience's standpoint it was a mistake, and if Darlton actually gave a damn about the audience, they'd think it was a mistake, in reality I think they're laughing all the way to the bank and think themselves to have done perfectly.

At this point I'd probably say something like "even though they seem like nice guys" - only, to be honest, they don't.  Most of the time in interviews, they come off as snarky, arrogant smart-asses, talking down to people who don't know the grand inside joke that only the two of them are privy to.     

Thanks, MachThree.  I 100% agree with you.  It's nice to have someone who understands the frustration.  (Regarding the writers' "inside jokes" stuff, I was especially irritated at the interview where they said *paraphrasing* "We know who the outrigger shooters were.  We've always known.  We just don't need to tell you because it doesn't matter to the end of the story."  Sheesh.  That felt like a real slap.)  Anyway, I enjoyed the series, I enjoyed the finale, I think both were among the best that TV has ever had to offer.  However, I also sort of agree with this: 

I watched each episode several times checking this website for easter eggs... titles of books, the numbers, I don't have to list I'm sure you all did the same thing.... looking at screencaps etc and for what???? ....There are so many unanswered questions. Why continue to pose them if you as the writer and creator have no intention of bringing them to a conclusion?

The in-depth mysteries, the searching for clues, the scrutinizing of screencaps -- all of this that some (not all, clearly not all) of us did was because we hoped we would eventually know the answers.  To hear "Well, just because you wanted to know it doesn't make it important -- it simply isn't important" kinda stinks.  It was important to me!  So to just denigrate it by saying "Well, it really doesn't matter" or "Well, you could figure it out for yourself if you'd just use your imagination and fill in the blanks a little" or "Sucks to be you" or "You just don't get the big picture" is kinda insulting.  I do get the big picture.  But why is it so wrong to mourn a little that I don't get to find out about the smaller details that I spent so much time wondering about?  I know I could use my imagination and make it up.  But I don't really want to do that at the end -- I did plenty of that already as we went along when I was theorizing!  At this point it would've been nice to know if I was right or not.  However, it was pretty apparent in the last month or so that this just wasn't going to happen, so it's not this big crushing last-minute anguish of "Oh how could they do this to us!"  The writing was on the cave-wall, so to speak, for quite some time.

But hey, I did still love the series.  If they're not going to give me all the answers I'd like to have, I can live with it.  Disappointing, but I can live with it.   I thought the finale was awesome, but I kinda think I wish I hadn't watched the last five minutes.

Oh, and before anyone asks "Well, exactly what questions did you want answered that didn't get answered?  Nyah-nyah you can't think of any!"....  I started a whole thread of them at the bottom of the Season Six stuff long before the finale aired, so they're there.   Still.  ;) 

One last thing about the finale:  I hate it that Kate was the one to finally take out Un-Locke.  Kate?  Really?  Ugh.   :D
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: louisianagirl76l on May 24, 2010, 06:10:02 PM
I'm confused...What other answers are all of you looking for? I keep reading over and over that you didn't get all the answers but to what?

What specifically??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: Madam P on May 24, 2010, 06:11:40 PM
I don't know how to do links, but just go to the Season Six stuff and look at the threads there.  There's several, I think.  "Questions we want answered" etc. 
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 06:16:27 PM
Here's the thing. You wanted answers to who was in the other outrigger? What if the answer was ancient Native American Indians? How would you like them to work that into our story? They KNEW other groups besides Egyptians, Dharma and Oceanic landed on the island. They knew which one shot at the outrigger, but there is no coherent way they sould possibly get that answer into the narrative of the story once everyone stopped skipping through time. You may take their response as smug, but its true. They knew who was going to be doing the shooting. Probably gave them names like they did with the dude who got sucked into the engine in the Pilot. But there is no way to work that answer into the narrative, so they weren't going to force it.

As for those other questions you wanted answers, I already hit on a bunch of them. You don't have to figure them out for yourself, I did all the work for you.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: louisianagirl76l on May 24, 2010, 06:18:07 PM
Here's the thing. You wanted answers to who was in the other outrigger? What if the answer was ancient Native American Indians? How would you like them to work that into our story? They KNEW other groups besides Egyptians, Dharma and Oceanic landed on the island. They knew which one shot at the outrigger, but there is no coherent way they sould possibly get that answer into the narrative of the story once everyone stopped skipping through time. You may take their response as smug, but its true. They knew who was going to be doing the shooting. Probably gave them names like they did with the dude who got sucked into the engine in the Pilot. But there is no way to work that answer into the narrative, so they weren't going to force it.

As for those other questions you wanted answers, I already hit on a bunch of them. You don't have to figure them out for yourself, I did all the work for you.
Kinda love you right now.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 06:19:11 PM
Awe, thanks.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 24, 2010, 06:20:43 PM
Madam P, I get what you are saying, but it's really not that big of a deal for me. I'm not hinging whether or not I think Lost was a good show based on if the explain the Hurley Bird. (something I personally wanted an answer to)

Like Darlton said (some may say arrogantly), not everyone is going to love it, but the show is what it is and they wanted it to be entertaining. The show wasn't written in its entirety from the beginning, which let it grow organically. For example, Michael Emerson would have only been in 3 episodes. There is something to be said for letting a show evolve the way Lost did.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: louisianagirl76l on May 24, 2010, 06:35:17 PM
I agree that there was really no way to tie up all the loose ends unless the whole finale was a question and answer with jacob (who didn't seem to know everything anyway) and how boring would that be. The castaways throwing questions at him and he just simply answers them. Ick....Not Lost style. I like coming up with things on my own...nobody can tell me in wrong :)
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: sobrien on May 24, 2010, 06:51:17 PM
I have to agree with the haters... I felt totally cheated! It seems last night's ending would have been fine actually welcomed if there had been a couple more episodes in between. I have no problem with them meeting again and moving on together but I feel duped. I watched each episode several times checking this website for easter eggs... titles of books, the numbers, I don't have to list I'm sure you all did the same thing.... looking at screencaps etc and for what???? Over and over  Darlton vehemetly denied time travel parallel universes and purgatory.... really guys??? I have to agree with the poster who said it seemed rushed like the finale snuck up on them and they phoned it in. I along with many fans were totally invested thought that the true followers who sifted through all the clues would be rewarded instead we are left with a collective HUH? I think the writers screwed us plain and simple they led us down a path where we thought the end is going to wow us all our questions will be answered and our devotion would be rewarded instead they did not care that the questions they posed were answered or not and just cashed their paycheck. And the poster who said he would rather come up with his own answers that is not what we signed up for. They made the island the main character and then never explained why. There are so many unanswered questions. Why continue to pose them if you as the writer and creator have no intention of bringing them to a conclusion. I totally agree with the poster who mentioned the sixth sense I also was expecting an aha moment that would cause me to watch the seasons over again with new fervor. If the writers strike had that big of an impact then they should've lengthened the season and recovered. And if there is a full length as rumored I will not be spending my $10 to watch it no matter how much it promises to satisfy my questions. To those that liked it if you're truly honest you will admit that they took too long to get there NOT answering questions. I have no problem with that finale AFTER the mysteries were solved.

I don't know if "phoned it in is accurate," but my point is still this was a series that was ever expanding the complexity (and weirdness) of the story.  To think that that level of complexity could ever come back together in a tight little package was folly.  it would have been a stretch to think that even a full season six devoted to ONLY answers would tie up 5 previous seasons, and season six was not answers - it was a new level of weirdness with the flash sideways adding to the complexity and creating another question that needed to be answered (to the writer's credit, this one was answered).  In an odd way the Purgatory sub plot was more successful to me because it was kept under some level of control.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: anavrin on May 24, 2010, 07:04:22 PM
honestly i want to know what you wanted them to answer.   To me it was great.  I got all the answers i needed.  

What questions  were not answered??

Seriously?  I had about 3 pages of them that I posted on the "unanswered questions" thread.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on May 24, 2010, 10:15:14 PM
honestly i want to know what you wanted them to answer.   To me it was great.  I got all the answers i needed.  

What questions  were not answered??

Seriously?  I had about 3 pages of them that I posted on the "unanswered questions" thread.

Yes seriously.  Go for it.  Ill answer every single one of them i bet with a real answer or the hey the people shooting from the outrigger boat were most likely the people from Ajira.  Since you know they found the Ajira bottle in the boat.   

Sorry to be a smartass but really if they would have shown that seen from the shooters perspective.  And it was Illana and them from Ajira.  I guarantee you everyone here including yourself would have gone well duh we kind of already knew that.  They didnt need to show us.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: beanblog on May 24, 2010, 11:02:50 PM
Maybe after we die, we can all meet up in the afterlife and answer all the questions of Lost ;)
LOL!  I love it!

Unfortunately, I did NOT love the finale.  I felt like the whole purgatory/construct could have been done in a more succinct manner.  Why waste half of the final season on it?  So much more could have been done to flesh out the history/purpose of the island and answer some of the many questions and mysteries that were piled on season after season.

I'm confused...What other answers are all of you looking for? I keep reading over and over that you didn't get all the answers but to what?
What specifically??? ??? ??? ???
Here's a few things that I'm thinking about right now... if you'd like to take a crack at em:
1 - I would have liked some kind of explanation of the "rules", and maybe some insight as to ben and widmore's adherence to them.
2 - Jacob has a "thing" for numbers.  Seriously?  That's it?  A thing? 
3 - Why did Eloise Hawking always know what was going on?
4 - Why would the writer's choose to lie to the audience in the "enhanced" repeats?  The example that comes to mind is "This is a flash-sideways.  It shows what happened if the plane never crashed". 

Anyway... maybe I'll like the ending after I digest it some more.  I thoroughly enjoyed the series (especially season 2!), but I was left speechless and extremely unsatisfied by "The End".
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: The_Vukster on May 24, 2010, 11:53:00 PM
But seriously, not qualms or anything, but there really isn't a single question I can see central to the story left unanswered.
  I assume this "story" you speak of is the one you summarized here http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,11122.0.html (http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,11122.0.html). (which actually is really a nice summary IMO).

If that is all the story is to you, then yes, I agree that there aren't really too many unanswered questions about that small summarization.

To me though, the story much more than just that.  Anyone can write something as simple as the summary you presented.  The true story, to me, is all the little details that filled in that plot for 6 years.  It is the genius that wove the web and provided all kinds of situations that all tied together.  And all of this "background" stuff going on is what drew everyone in.  Not just the simple Cliff's Notes version you gave. It is also where all these questions arose...many of which were left unanswered.  This is why I, and many others, are very disappointed in the finale.  Very little closure, a bunch of gaps left empty, doors left open, and unresolved storylines.

Sure these questions weren't crucial the the small slice of the story you provided....but they were a BIG part of the story that drew me, and many others in.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: louisianagirl76l on May 25, 2010, 12:33:18 AM
Maybe after we die, we can all meet up in the afterlife and answer all the questions of Lost ;)
LOL!  I love it!

Unfortunately, I did NOT love the finale.  I felt like the whole purgatory/construct could have been done in a more succinct manner.  Why waste half of the final season on it?  So much more could have been done to flesh out the history/purpose of the island and answer some of the many questions and mysteries that were piled on season after season.

I'm confused...What other answers are all of you looking for? I keep reading over and over that you didn't get all the answers but to what?
What specifically??? ??? ??? ???
Here's a few things that I'm thinking about right now... if you'd like to take a crack at em:
1 - I would have liked some kind of explanation of the "rules", and maybe some insight as to ben and widmore's adherence to them.
I think the rules were made up by whoever was the "keeper" at the time. Jacob's mom made her rules and she passed them to Jacob who kept them but then added the "game" to it. Remember Ben telling Hurley that those were Jacob's rules...I took that to mean that each "keeper" does his own thing.

2 - Jacob has a "thing" for numbers.  Seriously?  That's it?  A thing?  Maybe he was OCD. Maybe he was crazy..he had been on that island for thousands of years...Maybe the numbers are special just to Jacob for reasons we don't know.


3 - Why did Eloise Hawking always know what was going on?
This I don't know for sure. The only thing I can think of is that she got her "Flashes" or remembrance before Des and Charlie got theirs, therefore she knew that they were all actually dead already. But that would only explain season 6


4 - Why would the writer's choose to lie to the audience in the "enhanced" repeats?  The example that comes to mind is "This is a flash-sideways.  It shows what happened if the plane never crashed".  It is what would have happened if the plan hadn't crashed...at least from the dead lostie's POV. It's whatever they WANTED it to be. Kate wanted to be innocent..she claimed to be. Jack was the good father that he never had. Sawyer was on the right side of the law not the wrong. Hurley was lucky. Sure there were some others that didn't have it so good...Charlie...Jin/Sun...Sayid but if everyone had a perfect purgatory that would make for boring tv.

I might be totally wrong...I'm not pretending to have all the answers but my guesses are just as good as any ones


Anyway... maybe I'll like the ending after I digest it some more.  I thoroughly enjoyed the series (especially season 2!), but I was left speechless and extremely unsatisfied by "The End".

Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on May 25, 2010, 05:23:29 AM
agree with louisianna girl.  The Eloise thing is very simple to me.  She is also special like Desmond.  We pretty much discovered this in flashes before your eyes.  When Des ran into her and she was known as the ring lady.

This show was and has always been about the characters.  And the finale did a tremendous job making those characters stories end.   

To me.  Questions were answerd this season that needed to be answered.   All big season one questions were answered pretty much straight forward to us

Who are adam and eve
what is the smoke monster and where did it come from
what are the whispers. 

ALL answered.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: Maxor127 on May 25, 2010, 08:00:54 AM
They made the island the main character and then never explained why.

Nope, the Island was never the main character. It was a character though, which is kinda of cool for an inanimate object. The ending, with the island falling apart around the characters, about to sink into the ocean, then Jack saving the Island, was pretty damn dramatic if you ask me.

He wanted the Island to have lines. He'd be like the character from Neverending Story. They looked like strong hands.

Would that make the Hydra island his little kid in the crappy sequel?

Yep. Oceanic would be Falcore

Whoa, then MIB would be the princess and we have to give her a name.
The joke is on you because the princess's name is completely unintelligible when the kid yells it out a window.  I even turned on closed-captioning to see what he says and it just says (Yelling...)

I had to look it up online and apparently it's "Moon Child."
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: beanblog on May 25, 2010, 09:27:26 AM
Right... so most of the "answers" are left up to individual interpretation or pure guesswork.  Some people obviously like this, but I do not.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 25, 2010, 10:52:56 AM
But seriously, not qualms or anything, but there really isn't a single question I can see central to the story left unanswered.
  I assume this "story" you speak of is the one you summarized here http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,11122.0.html (http://lost.cubit.net/forum/index.php/topic,11122.0.html). (which actually is really a nice summary IMO).

If that is all the story is to you, then yes, I agree that there aren't really too many unanswered questions about that small summarization.

To me though, the story much more than just that.  Anyone can write something as simple as the summary you presented.  The true story, to me, is all the little details that filled in that plot for 6 years.  It is the genius that wove the web and provided all kinds of situations that all tied together.  And all of this "background" stuff going on is what drew everyone in.  Not just the simple Cliff's Notes version you gave. It is also where all these questions arose...many of which were left unanswered.  This is why I, and many others, are very disappointed in the finale.  Very little closure, a bunch of gaps left empty, doors left open, and unresolved storylines.

Sure these questions weren't crucial the the small slice of the story you provided....but they were a BIG part of the story that drew me, and many others in.

Thanks for the words about the summary. Yeah that post was in response to people thinking they died in the crash....which is false. But yeah, that was just a basic outline. I know and love all those little things that made LOST so perfect. I feel I have a good grasp on most if not ALL of the little things thrown into the story. Everyone wants to know what all the rules are...one of them is that the protector, in no way, can hold a celebration in response to ANYONE'S birthday. That's kind of a big one because Jacob wanted to celebrate his birthday as a kid, but couldn't because his Mom was unable to hold a celebration for him. Do we really need to know about that rule? No. Probably not.

Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: beanblog on May 25, 2010, 02:28:20 PM
Everyone wants to know what all the rules are...one of them is that the protector, in no way, can hold a celebration in response to ANYONE'S birthday. That's kind of a big one because Jacob wanted to celebrate his birthday as a kid, but couldn't because his Mom was unable to hold a celebration for him. Do we really need to know about that rule? No. Probably not.

Excellent strawman argument, but I'm on Vukster's side on this one. 

The ending that was presented could have been tacked onto the end of any darama on television.  With all of the awesome episodes that they put out over the years, I was really hoping for a finale that was designed for the hardcore fans, one that was specific to LOST, and one that answered some of the big mysteries that were presented.  If they could have produced more episodes like Ab Aeterno or Across The Sea and spent less time hyping up the "flash sideways", I think there would be a lot more happy LOST fans out there.   Instead, everyone dies, meets up in purgatory for a bit, and then happily moseys on up to heaven.  Yuk.  The more I think about it the less I like it.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: lostlady on May 25, 2010, 02:34:52 PM
with so many well loved characters dying it was nice to see that they all had connections after death. In a  spiritual show, like Lost was, it is not unreasonable to get this kind of ending. The ending nicely connected many themes on Lost: love, redemption, as well as Jack's--Live Together Die Alone mantra.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 25, 2010, 03:21:54 PM
Everyone wants to know what all the rules are...one of them is that the protector, in no way, can hold a celebration in response to ANYONE'S birthday. That's kind of a big one because Jacob wanted to celebrate his birthday as a kid, but couldn't because his Mom was unable to hold a celebration for him. Do we really need to know about that rule? No. Probably not.

Excellent strawman argument, but I'm on Vukster's side on this one. 

The ending that was presented could have been tacked onto the end of any darama on television.  With all of the awesome episodes that they put out over the years, I was really hoping for a finale that was designed for the hardcore fans, one that was specific to LOST, and one that answered some of the big mysteries that were presented.  If they could have produced more episodes like Ab Aeterno or Across The Sea and spent less time hyping up the "flash sideways", I think there would be a lot more happy LOST fans out there.   Instead, everyone dies, meets up in purgatory for a bit, and then happily moseys on up to heaven.  Yuk.  The more I think about it the less I like it.

Is there a TV show that has ended like that? I can't think of one. There may be one, but I think it was pretty original. As for it being too mushy...I mean c'mon. It's the end of a show with huge emotional swings, from the lauching of the raft and Hurley's Shambala drive to the deaths of Libby, Charlie, Jin & Sun, etc. After all that, the ending needed to be hugely emotional, and I for 1 am glad they found a way to give it a happy ending and still have the final shot be Jack's eye closing. I didn't want the greek tragedy ending.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: opgelost on May 25, 2010, 03:31:43 PM
Right... so most of the "answers" are left up to individual interpretation or pure guesswork.  Some people obviously like this, but I do not.


I think there are no answers. They invented a lot of mysteries and questions, but never had the answers. If you will ask them
who build the statue, they just don't know. They have to invent it, like us. But if they do, they will start a war. I-am-Jacob and I were waiting for the answers to kill each other by telling the other how wrong he was.  ;) But the makers smartly learned us that there are no right answers, just interpretations and different points of view. They kept us both happy and disagreeing for ever and respected the beliefs of both without disappointing one to the point that he would hate the show that he watched for years, because it would tell that
what you believe in is wrong.
They just made us answer the questions and mysteries for 6 years and every question allready has hundreds of answers. They are on lostpedia, here, on all the forums, in English, Italian, Dutch, Polish, Russian, Spanish and all the other languages. You can just pick the answers that make you happy. Every answer is right, because it never happened.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: beanblog on May 25, 2010, 04:37:59 PM
Is there a TV show that has ended like that?
Not that I am aware of... but my point is that the ending was related purely to the character roles and not at all to the island or any of the mysteries that kept us all tuning in every week.  Don't get me wrong, I liked the characters too, but it was the mystery of the island and it's weird and wacky powers that really kept me interested.

But the makers smartly learned us that there are no right answers, just interpretations and different points of view. They kept us both happy and disagreeing for ever and respected the beliefs of both without disappointing one to the point that he would hate the show that he watched for years, because it would tell that what you believe in is wrong.
They didn't keep me happy :).  I'd rather know I was wrong that have no answer at all.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 25, 2010, 05:05:28 PM
Is there a TV show that has ended like that?
Not that I am aware of... but my point is that the ending was related purely to the character roles and not at all to the island or any of the mysteries that kept us all tuning in every week.  Don't get me wrong, I liked the characters too, but it was the mystery of the island and it's weird and wacky powers that really kept me interested.

But the makers smartly learned us that there are no right answers, just interpretations and different points of view. They kept us both happy and disagreeing for ever and respected the beliefs of both without disappointing one to the point that he would hate the show that he watched for years, because it would tell that what you believe in is wrong.
They didn't keep me happy :).  I'd rather know I was wrong that have no answer at all.


First, that 2nd quote wasn't mine. I don't want to take credit for somebody else's work. I think that might be opie's.

As for the ending, there were kind of 2 endings, the church, and the eye closing. I totally agree that the mystery of the Island and it's "weird and wacky" powers is alot of what kept me entralled in the show. However, I'm not really sure a detailed explanation of the reason behind those powers would have made things better. If they said the core of the Island was made up of a rare material like Avatar's unobtanium, or if it was (God forbid) a spaceship, it would really have taken alot of the luster away. Leaving some ambiguity in there by not defining the details keeps a little bit of that magic. For me, actually going into and seeing the heart of the Island and the Cork was cool enough.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: The_Vukster on May 25, 2010, 05:14:56 PM
I think there are no answers. They invented a lot of mysteries and questions, but never had the answers. If you will ask them
who build the statue, they just don't know. They have to invent it, like us. But if they do, they will start a war. I-am-Jacob and I were waiting for the answers to kill each other by telling the other how wrong he was.  ;) But the makers smartly learned us that there are no right answers, just interpretations and different points of view. They kept us both happy and disagreeing for ever and respected the beliefs of both without disappointing one to the point that he would hate the show that he watched for years, because it would tell that
what you believe in is wrong.
They just made us answer the questions and mysteries for 6 years and every question allready has hundreds of answers. They are on lostpedia, here, on all the forums, in English, Italian, Dutch, Polish, Russian, Spanish and all the other languages. You can just pick the answers that make you happy. Every answer is right, because it never happened.
While I will agree that for some questions, there never ended up being any answers, like who created the statue, there were plenty of questions that were created that had right and wrong answers (e.g. Did Jin die on the boat?, What is the monster in the trees?, How did the Black Rock get in the middle of the island?, etc.)  And a big part of the enjoyment of I got from the show was trying to theorize about what was happening (or had happened, or would happen) and then seeing if I was right.  Every Wednesday my co-workers and I would gather together to compare notes, present theories, and revel when theories we previously stated turned out to be right.  Again, leaving so many things unanswered leaves us all left with a feeling of being cheated.  

I mean come on really??  You say Hurley and Ben were in charge of the island for some extended period and that is it???  Why the hell even write that in to the script if you don't elaborate??  It had NOTHING to do with anything and didn't affect the outcome whatsoever.  So why bother...other then to leave us one more thing to feel cheated about.

And don't give me this carp about using my imagination and making up my own answers!  If I wanted to do that I'd write my own damn story.

Basically the writers took 6 years of tremendous writing, weaving, and storytelling and ruined it by providing a two-bit ending that any college drop-out could have come up with.  YES the basic premise of the ending was somewhat unique, I will give them that.  But to get to that point so quickly, in one episode, skipping over many details, and leaving so many loose ends open was quite a letdown.  Frankly I feel embarrassed for the writers who after 6 years of great writing couldn't come up with a better ending, somehow bringing everything together
.  

In a way, the WHOLE show didn't really matter. Hardly any of it had any bearing on the final conclusion.  They were all going to die, some during the show, others in some unknown time, and meet up in the end in the after life and live happily ever after.  

In a way, it was like watching a very closely contested sporting event until 10 min left.   Then all of a sudden jumping to the final score which was quite different than when you left.  You feel like you missed out on something.

I didn't mind the ending itself.  I just minded the fact that they rushed to it, glossing over waaaaayyyy too much stuff.  Yeah...there were 30 points scored in the last 10 minutes, but we're going to let you use your IMAGINATION to figure out who scored what and how.  In fact, we won't even give you the final score...and we won't tell you which team won.  Let's just say those that didn't get hurt during the game all lived happily ever after.  Do you feel all warm and fuzzy now?
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 25, 2010, 05:44:23 PM

I mean come on really??  You say Hurley and Ben were in charge of the island for some extended period and that is it???  Why the hell even write that in to the script if you don't elaborate??  It had NOTHING to do with anything and didn't affect the outcome whatsoever.  So why bother...other then to leave us one more thing to feel cheated about.

And don't give me this carp about using my imagination and making up my own answers!  If I wanted to do that I'd write my own damn story.

Basically the writers took 6 years of tremendous writing, weaving, and storytelling and ruined it by providing a two-bit ending that any college drop-out could have come up with.  YES the basic premise of the ending was somewhat unique, I will give them that.  But to get to that point so quickly, in one episode, skipping over many details, and leaving so many loose ends open was quite a letdown.  Frankly I feel embarrassed for the writers who after 6 years of great writing couldn't come up with a better ending, somehow bringing everything together
.  

In a way, the WHOLE show didn't really matter. Hardly any of it had any bearing on the final conclusion.  They were all going to die, some during the show, others in some unknown time, and meet up in the end in the after life and live happily ever after.  

In a way, it was like watching a very closely contested sporting event until 10 min left.   Then all of a sudden jumping to the final score which was quite different than when you left.  You feel like you missed out on something.

I didn't mind the ending itself.  I just minded the fact that they rushed to it, glossing over waaaaayyyy too much stuff.  Yeah...there were 30 points scored in the last 10 minutes, but we're going to let you use your IMAGINATION to figure out who scored what and how.  In fact, we won't even give you the final score...and we won't tell you which team won.  Let's just say those that didn't get hurt during the game all lived happily ever after.  Do you feel all warm and fuzzy now?

1. Hurley and Ben: The Island survived, meaning the protector of the Island, Jacob and then Jack, succeeded. If the Island survives, and Jack dies, someone needs to take it over. Ben summed it up beautifully when he said "Do what you do best, Hugo. Help people." Now, perhaps you would have been happier having the Island sink, but that would have meant that Jack failed and would have, as MIB put it, "died for nothing". For me, knowing that Hurley and Ben live on, running the Island in a totally different way for possibly hundreds of years if not more is a very very cool happy ending. It also sparks my imagination for all the possibilities of how Hurley would run things differently than Jacob.

2. Saying any 2-bit college student could have written that finale is so ludicrous, I'm not even going to respond other than pointing out what a ridiculous comment that is.

3. The WHOLE show doesn't matter because it ended...you could use that arguement for every single piece of literature, play, tv show, and movie ever made. The whole line of Christian saying "We all die, kiddo." is true. The point of that was in all their lives, the time they spent together on the island was the most important in their lives. I'm sure we all will have moments in our lives that are the most important, either with friends and family, or careers. If you really want to think about it, it kind of points to the meaning of their lives...which is a pretty big philosophical issue.

4. Who won? I don't want to sound like a total jerk, but you did watch the finale right? The great conflict between Jacob and MIB that lasted thousands of years...Jacob won. That scene on the cliff, then Jack going back and saving the Island...I thought that was pretty clear.

5. Do I feel all warm and fuzzy? Yeah, I wanted a happy ending, and not some greek tragedy where everyone dies int he worst way imaginable at the end. So, when Jack's eyeball closed, I felt very warm and fuzzy, even more so when I watched it the second time around, and I'll feel it every time I watch it from here on out.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: lostlady on May 25, 2010, 05:48:02 PM

I mean come on really??  You say Hurley and Ben were in charge of the island for some extended period and that is it???  Why the hell even write that in to the script if you don't elaborate??  It had NOTHING to do with anything and didn't affect the outcome whatsoever.  So why bother...other then to leave us one more thing to feel cheated about.

And don't give me this carp about using my imagination and making up my own answers!  If I wanted to do that I'd write my own damn story.

Basically the writers took 6 years of tremendous writing, weaving, and storytelling and ruined it by providing a two-bit ending that any college drop-out could have come up with.  YES the basic premise of the ending was somewhat unique, I will give them that.  But to get to that point so quickly, in one episode, skipping over many details, and leaving so many loose ends open was quite a letdown.  Frankly I feel embarrassed for the writers who after 6 years of great writing couldn't come up with a better ending, somehow bringing everything together
.  

In a way, the WHOLE show didn't really matter. Hardly any of it had any bearing on the final conclusion.  They were all going to die, some during the show, others in some unknown time, and meet up in the end in the after life and live happily ever after.  

In a way, it was like watching a very closely contested sporting event until 10 min left.   Then all of a sudden jumping to the final score which was quite different than when you left.  You feel like you missed out on something.

I didn't mind the ending itself.  I just minded the fact that they rushed to it, glossing over waaaaayyyy too much stuff.  Yeah...there were 30 points scored in the last 10 minutes, but we're going to let you use your IMAGINATION to figure out who scored what and how.  In fact, we won't even give you the final score...and we won't tell you which team won.  Let's just say those that didn't get hurt during the game all lived happily ever after.  Do you feel all warm and fuzzy now?

1. Hurley and Ben: The Island survived, meaning the protector of the Island, Jacob and then Jack, succeeded. If the Island survives, and Jack dies, someone needs to take it over. Ben summed it up beautifully when he said "Do what you do best, Hugo. Help people." Now, perhaps you would have been happier having the Island sink, but that would have meant that Jack failed and would have, as MIB put it, "died for nothing". For me, knowing that Hurley and Ben live on, running the Island in a totally different way for possibly hundreds of years if not more is a very very cool happy ending. It also sparks my imagination for all the possibilities of how Hurley would run things differently than Jacob.

2. Saying any 2-bit college student could have written that finale is so ludicrous, I'm not even going to respond other than pointing out what a ridiculous comment that is.

3. The WHOLE show doesn't matter because it ended...you could use that arguement for every single piece of literature, play, tv show, and movie ever made. The whole line of Christian saying "We all die, kiddo." is true. The point of that was in all their lives, the time they spent together on the island was the most important in their lives. I'm sure we all will have moments in our lives that are the most important, either with friends and family, or careers. If you really want to think about it, it kind of points to the meaning of their lives...which is a pretty big philosophical issue.

4. Who won? I don't want to sound like a total jerk, but you did watch the finale right? The great conflict between Jacob and MIB that lasted thousands of years...Jacob won. That scene on the cliff, then Jack going back and saving the Island...I thought that was pretty clear.

5. Do I feel all warm and fuzzy? Yeah, I wanted a happy ending, and not some greek tragedy where everyone dies int he worst way imaginable at the end. So, when Jack's eyeball closed, I felt very warm and fuzzy, even more so when I watched it the second time around, and I'll feel it every time I watch it from here on out.
THIS!
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: opgelost on May 25, 2010, 05:53:43 PM
I understand you don't like it. I cannot change that.
I don't know exactly what you missed. I think we saw everything of the losties.
Their birth, youth, their fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, loveaffairs, killings, escapes, grandfathers, aunts, problems,
houses, all their days on the island and off-island.
You wanted to see how Hurley had a happy life on the island, flew over his mother and father and stayed there
with Ben in dharmatown till he died and than who followed Hurley, how he selected him and how he died etc etc?


Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: beanblog on May 25, 2010, 06:10:06 PM
OK, I'm not going to fan the flames any more and continue arguing what is essentially opinion. 

I must say though, I am really surprised and happy that so many people were satisfied with the ending.  If I'm in the minority then I guess the writers were successful!

Cheers!

Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: NoraCharles on May 25, 2010, 06:31:45 PM
I was totally ok with everything about the ending until Jack opened the coffin. I get the whole thing with his dad, but srsly?

Quite honestly, I think the explanation for sideways was lame considering all we've been told and given by the writers for the past 6 years. It really came out of left field, IMHO - that all the Losties, unknown to each other, created their own alternate universe to meet again. What? ??? We had no hints of such a thing. They broke all the rules they had established over previous seasons. Sadly only one thing -- the way Juliette died/she discovered Sawyer (with the whole go dutch for coffee thing) was really satisfying, like it was planned out that way all along - the way they promised us they had.

I think that was Darlton's mistake - making promises.
At one time, people weren't getting the gist of Lost and ABC was yanking it all over the schedule and people were losing interest: "What the hell is this and where is it going??" So Darlton came up with "oh, we know how it will end, we've known all along, hang in there" to save the show. BUT when they did that, they raised the level of expectation for the ending, even years before it did end. If they had been more cautious and said, "we have an idea how it will end, but are hashing some things out" that probably would have been better and fans might not have expected so much. I really think Darlton knew as much as Matthew Fox said he knew on Kimmel - that it would end with Jack's eye closing. And that's all they knew.  If they really had known, they would have sprinkled more throughout the whole run of the show, not just this last season -- more death's like Juliette's where it really truly came full circle in the end. If they had done that, I think more people would have liked the ending.

I also kind of feel that they had one last "f*ck you" to the fans with the way they purposely introduced things and didn't explain them - like what happened to the people on the plane, how did their lives end and the people left on the island. I DO want to know what happened to my favorite characters, Sawyer and Hurley. Did Claire make it home to be a mom to Aaron? I think they could have addressed this in one of those musical montages where they just show the characters in their lives without the dialogue. THAT would be satisfying.

Overall, I did like it. But you really shouldn't have to think as hard as you have to to wrap your head around the 'alternate universe' and all the new questions it poses, like, Jack never had a son, right?  ???   

 ;)


Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 25, 2010, 06:49:22 PM
While I will agree that for some questions, there never ended up being any answers, like who created the statue, there were plenty of questions that were created that had right and wrong answers (e.g. Did Jin die on the boat?, What is the monster in the trees?, How did the Black Rock get in the middle of the island?, etc.)  And a big part of the enjoyment of I got from the show was trying to theorize about what was happening (or had happened, or would happen) and then seeing if I was right.  Every Wednesday my co-workers and I would gather together to compare notes, present theories, and revel when theories we previously stated turned out to be right.  Again, leaving so many things unanswered leaves us all left with a feeling of being cheated.  



Sweet mother of God. If I have to point out one more time who built the statue I am going to lose it. Why Is this such a problem for people to understand. And Furthermore, why does everyone think its so important that we know?  The statue was of Taweret. Egyptian Goddess of Fertility. We have a Temple with Egyptian glyphs on it. We know People crashed on the Island periodically.  They were Egyptians that crashed on the island and built the statue.  Also, we know they really don't have anything to do with our story.  If they would have taken time out of OUR story to tell that one, I think most of us would be supremely pissed. Why does everyone feel the need to be so selfish that they can't realize that the questions THEY wanted answers too might not fit within the makings of a well told story. Who out of your co-workers had, "The Egyptian statue was built by Egyptians"? He wins.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on May 25, 2010, 09:31:56 PM
I was totally ok with everything about the ending until Jack opened the coffin. I get the whole thing with his dad, but srsly?

Quite honestly, I think the explanation for sideways was lame considering all we've been told and given by the writers for the past 6 years. It really came out of left field, IMHO - that all the Losties, unknown to each other, created their own alternate universe to meet again. What? ??? We had no hints of such a thing. They broke all the rules they had established over previous seasons. Sadly only one thing -- the way Juliette died/she discovered Sawyer (with the whole go dutch for coffee thing) was really satisfying, like it was planned out that way all along - the way they promised us they had.

I think that was Darlton's mistake - making promises.
At one time, people weren't getting the gist of Lost and ABC was yanking it all over the schedule and people were losing interest: "What the hell is this and where is it going??" So Darlton came up with "oh, we know how it will end, we've known all along, hang in there" to save the show. BUT when they did that, they raised the level of expectation for the ending, even years before it did end. If they had been more cautious and said, "we have an idea how it will end, but are hashing some things out" that probably would have been better and fans might not have expected so much. I really think Darlton knew as much as Matthew Fox said he knew on Kimmel - that it would end with Jack's eye closing. And that's all they knew.  If they really had known, they would have sprinkled more throughout the whole run of the show, not just this last season -- more death's like Juliette's where it really truly came full circle in the end. If they had done that, I think more people would have liked the ending.

I also kind of feel that they had one last "f*ck you" to the fans with the way they purposely introduced things and didn't explain them - like what happened to the people on the plane, how did their lives end and the people left on the island. I DO want to know what happened to my favorite characters, Sawyer and Hurley. Did Claire make it home to be a mom to Aaron? I think they could have addressed this in one of those musical montages where they just show the characters in their lives without the dialogue. THAT would be satisfying.

Overall, I did like it. But you really shouldn't have to think as hard as you have to to wrap your head around the 'alternate universe' and all the new questions it poses, like, Jack never had a son, right?  ???  

 ;)



They did show us what happened.  They made it safely off the island.  that was the point of the plain flying over Jacks head. 

If every story had a set in stone ending then every story ever created would absolutely suck. 

Ill compare it to a little simpler show called Friends.  This show ended with everyone walking out of the apartment.  The last line is from Joey.  He says   Has this apartment always been purple.  its funny because the show was about friends and laughter.   
Now Im sure if you watched this show.  Then you would be truely pissed that it ended this way becasue we didnt get to see all of our Friends grow old and die and see exactly what happened after they all left the apartment that they were in for 9 years. 

I REALLY DONT GET IT. How anyone can want anymore answers.  Because we got all of the ones that were essential to the storytelling.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: NoraCharles on May 25, 2010, 10:23:44 PM
I REALLY DONT GET IT. How anyone can want anymore answers.  Because we got all of the ones that were essential to the storytelling.

Really? You don't get it? I could say the same for you, that how can you NOT want anymore answers?
Some people are just built that way. Some are more curious than others. Some, like you, appreciate the big picture, the overall storytelling arc. Some, like me, enjoy the smaller details of things. We're just different in how we look at things. Some people ask questions and some don't. It's cool.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: this is some crazy stuff on May 25, 2010, 10:28:52 PM
I do agree with that Nora.  And I did love all the little things in the story.  My fav season was Season 2 when we were learning all about the Dharma stuff.  I just dont see what answers havent been answered yet.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: beanblog on May 25, 2010, 10:45:47 PM
I do agree with that Nora.  And I did love all the little things in the story.  My fav season was Season 2 when we were learning all about the Dharma stuff.  I just dont see what answers havent been answered yet.
I loved season 2 as well... but there were PLENTY of Dharma things that weren't answered.

When someone is asked "What is LOST about?", I don't think the standard response was  "It's a drama about a bunch of people who go through a journey of redemption and salvation".  No, instead, most people would say "It's about a bunch of people who crash on a mysterious island with a monster, hatches, time travel, and all kinds of crazy, interesting, interconnected mysteries." 




Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 26, 2010, 12:37:35 AM
I do agree with that Nora.  And I did love all the little things in the story.  My fav season was Season 2 when we were learning all about the Dharma stuff.  I just dont see what answers havent been answered yet.
I loved season 2 as well... but there were PLENTY of Dharma things that weren't answered.

When someone is asked "What is LOST about?", I don't think the standard response was  "It's a drama about a bunch of people who go through a journey of redemption and salvation".  No, instead, most people would say "It's about a bunch of people who crash on a mysterious island with a monster, hatches, time travel, and all kinds of crazy, interesting, interconnected mysteries." 

Very true, but here's the thing...both those answers are correct. Thats what turned Lost up to 11. It wasn't just another X-Files. It dealt very deeply with alot of different themes like "redemption and salvation" or free will vs. destiny or who are we and why are we here.

Now for some people the answers we were given don't seemed to be detailed enough, for other people, the answers we've been given are detailed enough. For example, you bring up time-travel. Well one of the "unanswered" questions is, how did they travel through time? Well, the answer we were given was, because the donkey wheel got messed up when Ben turned it. For me, thats good enough.

I don't need to know that the flux capacitor needs 1.21 gigawatts of power which is supplied by the unobtanium mineral mine located underneath the Temple which was made by Takhart, the secret 5th son of Ramses the Great and his constort Nefertari who arrived on the Island after the boat he was sailing got separated in a storm from his armada that was off to fight the Hittites over land rights to a river valley that grew excellent berries.

At a certain point, the details become unweildy, and ultimately unfulfilling.

As for Dharma, I love the mystery and sci-fi they brought as well, but the show was never about Dharma. We even got to spend a good portion of season 5 inside Dharma, and watch the contstruction of 2 of the major stations we were previously introduced to. But that still wasn't enough for alot of people.

There's unanswered questions about every story ever written, however, a story should not be judged by the details that remain "unanswered", but rather the themes expressed, the journey taken by the characters, and ultimately, the entertainment value. So, it seems it essentially comes down to individual opinions. For nearly every question I've heard that somebody says is unanswered, I've had an answer that works for me, which is partly why I believe I've been able to enjoy this final season as much as I have.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: The_Vukster on May 26, 2010, 01:23:40 AM
1. Hurley and Ben: The Island survived, meaning the protector of the Island, Jacob and then Jack, succeeded. If the Island survives, and Jack dies, someone needs to take it over. Ben summed it up beautifully when he said "Do what you do best, Hugo. Help people." Now, perhaps you would have been happier having the Island sink, but that would have meant that Jack failed and would have, as MIB put it, "died for nothing". For me, knowing that Hurley and Ben live on, running the Island in a totally different way for possibly hundreds of years if not more is a very very cool happy ending. It also sparks my imagination for all the possibilities of how Hurley would run things differently than Jacob.

2. Saying any 2-bit college student could have written that finale is so ludicrous, I'm not even going to respond other than pointing out what a ridiculous comment that is.

3. The WHOLE show doesn't matter because it ended...you could use that argument for every single piece of literature, play, tv show, and movie ever made. The whole line of Christian saying "We all die, kiddo." is true. The point of that was in all their lives, the time they spent together on the island was the most important in their lives. I'm sure we all will have moments in our lives that are the most important, either with friends and family, or careers. If you really want to think about it, it kind of points to the meaning of their lives...which is a pretty big philosophical issue.

4. Who won? I don't want to sound like a total jerk, but you did watch the finale right? The great conflict between Jacob and MIB that lasted thousands of years...Jacob won. That scene on the cliff, then Jack going back and saving the Island...I thought that was pretty clear.

5. Do I feel all warm and fuzzy? Yeah, I wanted a happy ending, and not some greek tragedy where everyone dies int he worst way imaginable at the end. So, when Jack's eyeball closed, I felt very warm and fuzzy, even more so when I watched it the second time around, and I'll feel it every time I watch it from here on out.
1. I wasn't implying I would have liked the island to sink.  I was merely bringing up the point that again, one more thing was created, yet left unexplained.  Why even write that Hugo and Ben take over...THEN SKIP right to the end of that reign.  It just seems really cheesy.  Why not just say they took it over and end there?? 

2.  It is not ridiculous.  My point here was that it takes no talent to create an ending that really has very few ties to most of what the show was about.  The real talent would have been bringing it all together somehow, like they had done with many things throughout the past 6 years.  Not just making an ending that most of the previous 5 years had nothing to do with.

3.  Again you missed my point here.  I was simply stating that the ending was relatively independent of what went on for the previous 5 years.  They wrote an ending that did not wrap up 90% of what we watched.

4 and 5.  That paragraph you quoted was not to be literally applied to the show.  I wasn't asking who won, Jacob or MIB.  And I wasn't asking if you felt warm and fuzzy about the ending of LOST.  I was simply comparing the show to watching a sporting event and not seeing the end.  You feel shortchanged.

It is quite apparent that you and some others simply only care about the beginning and the end.  Anything in between is just filler and you do not really care how many questions are raised and not answered.  Or how many blanks are left unfilled.  But to me, the true art of the story telling in this show was how it created questions and scenarios that seemed completely unrelated, yet season after season we found how it was all pieced together.  Then at the end, all of a sudden the writers decide to simply stop piecing things together and write what seemed to me like an abrupt, rushed ending.

That was the disappointing part.

I do not believe anyone can argue that one of the most compelling things about this show was how many questions it would raise over the seasons, and how would they be answered (i.e. relate to the big picture).  The satisfaction, for me at least, came when I could see those questions answered and how they tied in.  Although the show did this successfully for me for 6 years, sadly the ending fell far short of what the show had previously delivered.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: Mrs Hume on May 26, 2010, 01:24:30 AM
I have to agree with the haters... I felt totally cheated! It seems last night's ending would have been fine actually welcomed if there had been a couple more episodes in between. I have no problem with them meeting again and moving on together but I feel duped. I watched each episode several times checking this website for easter eggs... titles of books, the numbers, I don't have to list I'm sure you all did the same thing.... looking at screencaps etc and for what???? Over and over  Darlton vehemetly denied time travel parallel universes and purgatory.... really guys??? I have to agree with the poster who said it seemed rushed like the finale snuck up on them and they phoned it in. I along with many fans were totally invested thought that the true followers who sifted through all the clues would be rewarded instead we are left with a collective HUH? I think the writers screwed us plain and simple they led us down a path where we thought the end is going to wow us all our questions will be answered and our devotion would be rewarded instead they did not care that the questions they posed were answered or not and just cashed their paycheck. And the poster who said he would rather come up with his own answers that is not what we signed up for. They made the island the main character and then never explained why. There are so many unanswered questions. Why continue to pose them if you as the writer and creator have no intention of bringing them to a conclusion. I totally agree with the poster who mentioned the sixth sense I also was expecting an aha moment that would cause me to watch the seasons over again with new fervor. If the writers strike had that big of an impact then they should've lengthened the season and recovered. And if there is a full length as rumored I will not be spending my $10 to watch it no matter how much it promises to satisfy my questions. To those that liked it if you're truly honest you will admit that they took too long to get there NOT answering questions. I have no problem with that finale AFTER the mysteries were solved.

OMG, this is a fantastic fantastic Post. Very well said! and I agree 100%
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 26, 2010, 01:55:16 AM
1. Hurley and Ben: The Island survived, meaning the protector of the Island, Jacob and then Jack, succeeded. If the Island survives, and Jack dies, someone needs to take it over. Ben summed it up beautifully when he said "Do what you do best, Hugo. Help people." Now, perhaps you would have been happier having the Island sink, but that would have meant that Jack failed and would have, as MIB put it, "died for nothing". For me, knowing that Hurley and Ben live on, running the Island in a totally different way for possibly hundreds of years if not more is a very very cool happy ending. It also sparks my imagination for all the possibilities of how Hurley would run things differently than Jacob.

2. Saying any 2-bit college student could have written that finale is so ludicrous, I'm not even going to respond other than pointing out what a ridiculous comment that is.

3. The WHOLE show doesn't matter because it ended...you could use that argument for every single piece of literature, play, tv show, and movie ever made. The whole line of Christian saying "We all die, kiddo." is true. The point of that was in all their lives, the time they spent together on the island was the most important in their lives. I'm sure we all will have moments in our lives that are the most important, either with friends and family, or careers. If you really want to think about it, it kind of points to the meaning of their lives...which is a pretty big philosophical issue.

4. Who won? I don't want to sound like a total jerk, but you did watch the finale right? The great conflict between Jacob and MIB that lasted thousands of years...Jacob won. That scene on the cliff, then Jack going back and saving the Island...I thought that was pretty clear.

5. Do I feel all warm and fuzzy? Yeah, I wanted a happy ending, and not some greek tragedy where everyone dies int he worst way imaginable at the end. So, when Jack's eyeball closed, I felt very warm and fuzzy, even more so when I watched it the second time around, and I'll feel it every time I watch it from here on out.
1. I wasn't implying I would have liked the island to sink.  I was merely bringing up the point that again, one more thing was created, yet left unexplained.  Why even write that Hugo and Ben take over...THEN SKIP right to the end of that reign.  It just seems really cheesy.  Why not just say they took it over and end there?? 

2.  It is not ridiculous.  My point here was that it takes no talent to create an ending that really has very few ties to most of what the show was about.  The real talent would have been bringing it all together somehow, like they had done with many things throughout the past 6 years.  Not just making an ending that most of the previous 5 years had nothing to do with.

3.  Again you missed my point here.  I was simply stating that the ending was relatively independent of what went on for the previous 5 years.  They wrote an ending that did not wrap up 90% of what we watched.

4 and 5.  That paragraph you quoted was not to be literally applied to the show.  I wasn't asking who won, Jacob or MIB.  And I wasn't asking if you felt warm and fuzzy about the ending of LOST.  I was simply comparing the show to watching a sporting event and not seeing the end.  You feel shortchanged.

It is quite apparent that you and some others simply only care about the beginning and the end.  Anything in between is just filler and you do not really care how many questions are raised and not answered.  Or how many blanks are left unfilled.  But to me, the true art of the story telling in this show was how it created questions and scenarios that seemed completely unrelated, yet season after season we found how it was all pieced together.  Then at the end, all of a sudden the writers decide to simply stop piecing things together and write what seemed to me like an abrupt, rushed ending.

That was the disappointing part.

I do not believe anyone can argue that one of the most compelling things about this show was how many questions it would raise over the seasons, and how would they be answered (i.e. relate to the big picture).  The satisfaction, for me at least, came when I could see those questions answered and how they tied in.  Although the show did this successfully for me for 6 years, sadly the ending fell far short of what the show had previously delivered.


1. You can't have it both ways. Either the Island sinks and is gone forever, then you have to explain the ramifications of that. Or the Island survives and a new protector is needed to guard the light, in which case you need to explain that. The writers chose the later, and Hurley is the new protector. Happily...ever...after.

2. I stand by what I said. I think it's silly to say that finale was something any college drop out could have done.

3. I understand what you are saying, but I honestly don't think you can watch the end of the finale and not see how the ONLY reason it is emotional at all is because of the sum of the parts leading up to the moment. If you played that scene at the end of season 2, it wouldn't have had a fraction of the emotion it did.

4-5. OK I think I understand what you meant in your metaphor now, which is good, because how anyone could ask "who won" was really beyond me. lol

Once again, though, LOST, more than any other show I've seen, built on what had come before it. There was almost no way to jump into season 4 without watching 1-3. I really don't see how the finale "skipped" over anything important. Yeah, we had some happily-ever-afters like Hurley/Ben and the characters on the plane, but it felt like a real seemless transition. The finale answered the biggest question of the entire show...how does it all end for our characters?

I don't feel like I missed anything by not seeing the sitcom "My 2 Mommies" about Kate and Claire raising Aaron. Or the "Just For Men" hair dye infommercial with Richard and Miles. Or "Wings 2" with Frank and Sawyer. The story of the Losties on the Island was perfectly complete. The only "holes" are some minor insignificant details, and some major philisophical questions but every great story has those.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to tell you how to feel. If you were disappointed, you aren't alone. I'm just responding to the points you brought up and explaining my point of view and why I wasn't disappointed even though we watched the same exact thing.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: lostgirl2 on May 26, 2010, 03:02:31 AM
It was always about the characters... and whether we like it or not, the only way to end this was with the death of them all. The only other ending would have been Jack and Flocke on the the beach having the same conversation that Jacob and MIB had....they come, they destroy...it all ends the same...they all die. Cheers!
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: sadavidas on May 26, 2010, 05:29:06 AM
If they would have taken time out of OUR story to tell that one, I think most of us would be supremely pissed.

I know you are upset about having to explain who built the statue to everyone numerous times, but as far as OUR story is concerned, Season 6 as a whole had a whole lot of unnecessary filler. Quite honestly, I would have enjoyed watching an hour of Egyptians carving the statue's nose out of a block of stone more than hearing a guy translate for a man who does not need translation.

And don't give that B.S. about how people respected him more or whatever if he needed a translator because I for one think that whole part of the story was unnecessary at this point of the story.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: lostlady on May 26, 2010, 07:57:58 AM
If they would have taken time out of OUR story to tell that one, I think most of us would be supremely pissed.

I know you are upset about having to explain who built the statue to everyone numerous times, but as far as OUR story is concerned, Season 6 as a whole had a whole lot of unnecessary filler. Quite honestly, I would have enjoyed watching an hour of Egyptians carving the statue's nose out of a block of stone more than hearing a guy translate for a man who does not need translation.

And don't give that B.S. about how people respected him more or whatever if he needed a translator because I for one think that whole part of the story was unnecessary at this point of the story.

I agree-that whole temple/Dogan story was too long and really uneccessary.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 26, 2010, 02:03:15 PM
If they would have taken time out of OUR story to tell that one, I think most of us would be supremely pissed.

I know you are upset about having to explain who built the statue to everyone numerous times, but as far as OUR story is concerned, Season 6 as a whole had a whole lot of unnecessary filler. Quite honestly, I would have enjoyed watching an hour of Egyptians carving the statue's nose out of a block of stone more than hearing a guy translate for a man who does not need translation.

And don't give that B.S. about how people respected him more or whatever if he needed a translator because I for one think that whole part of the story was unnecessary at this point of the story.

I agree-that whole temple/Dogan story was too long and really uneccessary.

This is a little frustrating for me. Alot of people have been clamoring for more answers, but the whole time at the Temple is exactly what those answers look like. If we NEVER got that time there, we would have been hearing, "And what about the Temple? We've been hearing about it for seasons and never see it?" "Where did Alpert take Ben as a kid and what happened to him?" "What happened to the rest of the Others that Alpert mentioned?"

We didn't spend all that much time there, just enough to answer those questions, and get the ball rolling on Locke's crusade. We all said we wanted answers, well, we got it.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: lostlady on May 26, 2010, 02:16:40 PM
If they would have taken time out of OUR story to tell that one, I think most of us would be supremely pissed.

I know you are upset about having to explain who built the statue to everyone numerous times, but as far as OUR story is concerned, Season 6 as a whole had a whole lot of unnecessary filler. Quite honestly, I would have enjoyed watching an hour of Egyptians carving the statue's nose out of a block of stone more than hearing a guy translate for a man who does not need translation.

And don't give that B.S. about how people respected him more or whatever if he needed a translator because I for one think that whole part of the story was unnecessary at this point of the story.

I agree-that whole temple/Dogan story was too long and really uneccessary.

This is a little frustrating for me. Alot of people have been clamoring for more answers, but the whole time at the Temple is exactly what those answers look like. If we NEVER got that time there, we would have been hearing, "And what about the Temple? We've been hearing about it for seasons and never see it?" "Where did Alpert take Ben as a kid and what happened to him?" "What happened to the rest of the Others that Alpert mentioned?"

We didn't spend all that much time there, just enough to answer those questions, and get the ball rolling on Locke's crusade. We all said we wanted answers, well, we got it.

You are right Casey Mac the temple story was very neccessary for the history of the island and as well as the set up to what was coming. I just thought they added extraneous storylines and we could have spent a shorter time there. As soon as we saw the temple we kind of knew what it was all about. Why add in that whole "take this pill Sayid" story line? I figure Jacob was testing Sayid and Jack to see if they were good at following orders or something but IMO I didn't need the story.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 26, 2010, 03:38:18 PM
If they would have taken time out of OUR story to tell that one, I think most of us would be supremely pissed.

I know you are upset about having to explain who built the statue to everyone numerous times, but as far as OUR story is concerned, Season 6 as a whole had a whole lot of unnecessary filler. Quite honestly, I would have enjoyed watching an hour of Egyptians carving the statue's nose out of a block of stone more than hearing a guy translate for a man who does not need translation.

And don't give that B.S. about how people respected him more or whatever if he needed a translator because I for one think that whole part of the story was unnecessary at this point of the story.

I agree-that whole temple/Dogan story was too long and really uneccessary.

This is a little frustrating for me. Alot of people have been clamoring for more answers, but the whole time at the Temple is exactly what those answers look like. If we NEVER got that time there, we would have been hearing, "And what about the Temple? We've been hearing about it for seasons and never see it?" "Where did Alpert take Ben as a kid and what happened to him?" "What happened to the rest of the Others that Alpert mentioned?"

We didn't spend all that much time there, just enough to answer those questions, and get the ball rolling on Locke's crusade. We all said we wanted answers, well, we got it.

You are right Casey Mac the temple story was very neccessary for the history of the island and as well as the set up to what was coming. I just thought they added extraneous storylines and we could have spent a shorter time there. As soon as we saw the temple we kind of knew what it was all about. Why add in that whole "take this pill Sayid" story line? I figure Jacob was testing Sayid and Jack to see if they were good at following orders or something but IMO I didn't need the story.

I hear what you are saying, and I'll spare you my thoughts on the whole Sayid storyline. I'll just say that we really didn't spend all that much time there. If it was any less, I think you run the risk of it feeling like Chevy Chase in National Lampoon's Vacation when they go to the Grand Canyon. Everybody is gawking at it, he walks up, puts his arm around his wife, takes it in for a second, then says, "OK lets go." If they would have just showed the Temple, and then moved on, it would have felt too brief. I think you walk a real fine line there between staying long enough and staying too long.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: lostlady on May 26, 2010, 08:03:18 PM
LOL Chevy Chase--love that movie! I guess it's true we did need some time at the temple after hearing so much about it for so long.
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: opgelost on May 27, 2010, 03:04:17 PM
http://www.dumpert.nl/mediabase/961511/bd041859/onbeantwoorde_vragen_van_lost.html
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: MachThree on May 27, 2010, 07:33:15 PM
This is a little frustrating for me. Alot of people have been clamoring for more answers, but the whole time at the Temple is exactly what those answers look like. If we NEVER got that time there, we would have been hearing, "And what about the Temple? We've been hearing about it for seasons and never see it?" "Where did Alpert take Ben as a kid and what happened to him?" "What happened to the rest of the Others that Alpert mentioned?"

Temple should never have been introduced to begin with.  Yeah, I can say now that, having introduced the idea of the temple,  if they hadn't shown the temple people would have complained, so they had to show it.  Problem is, if they didn't have anything good to show us, they shouldn't have introduced the temple to begin with, and they could have spent the screen time on something better.

Writing the show is like a chess game.  Yeah, trading my queen for the other guy's bishop was a crappy move.  But the real crappy move I made was 5 moves ago when I moved my queen into a precarious position that I wasn't able to get out of.   Same with what happened to the temple and many other mysteries, introducing them with no good payoff planned, but then feeling compelled to either not explain it (massive complaints) or showing us a crappy resolution (massive complaints).   

Same situation here. 
Title: Re: My musings on the finale (and I didn't like it)
Post by: CaseyMac on May 27, 2010, 08:30:53 PM
This is a little frustrating for me. Alot of people have been clamoring for more answers, but the whole time at the Temple is exactly what those answers look like. If we NEVER got that time there, we would have been hearing, "And what about the Temple? We've been hearing about it for seasons and never see it?" "Where did Alpert take Ben as a kid and what happened to him?" "What happened to the rest of the Others that Alpert mentioned?"

Temple should never have been introduced to begin with.  Yeah, I can say now that, having introduced the idea of the temple,  if they hadn't shown the temple people would have complained, so they had to show it.  Problem is, if they didn't have anything good to show us, they shouldn't have introduced the temple to begin with, and they could have spent the screen time on something better.

Writing the show is like a chess game.  Yeah, trading my queen for the other guy's bishop was a crappy move.  But the real crappy move I made was 5 moves ago when I moved my queen into a precarious position that I wasn't able to get out of.   Same with what happened to the temple and many other mysteries, introducing them with no good payoff planned, but then feeling compelled to either not explain it (massive complaints) or showing us a crappy resolution (massive complaints).   

Same situation here. 

First of all, the Temple kinda helped explain the whole heart of the Island thing. It really set the stage for it.

2nd, not every answer has to be "the key". Take for example, the polar bear from the pilot. There were a million theories as to what it meant, and the revelation was fairly simple. The temple really was like the ancient version of the Swan.