Sledgeweb's Lost ... Stuff Forum

Episode Discussion (Spoiler Free) => Season 6 => Episode 6x16 => Topic started by: MachThree on May 24, 2010, 06:30:56 AM

Title: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: MachThree on May 24, 2010, 06:30:56 AM
This is the one thing (just finished watching) so far that I can't explain to myself.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: Writers_Strike on May 24, 2010, 06:34:38 AM
I say the Alt was a sort of purgatory and not to think too much about what was there and not there.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: soulska on May 24, 2010, 06:38:54 AM
one of two things im thinking.. one is that it was simply a sideways/alt view of the island, so its non-existent or its a view of the island post hurley/ben reign. it could be that new players came to the island and played all the wrong moves causing the island to eventually sink because of their actions.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: captaintau on May 24, 2010, 06:46:21 AM
The "Flash Sideways timeline" was the eternal meeting place. They'd decided that it was the crash that brought them together so they engineered a reality whereby the island sunk, thereby explaining the flight not crashing, Desmond not being on it etc etc. Retrospectively, I would suggest that the bomb didn't sink it. That just caused The Incident and nothing more.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: opgelost on May 24, 2010, 10:09:21 AM
I think because in the end the island was not important.
The island was just an island.

Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: CastawayCayley on May 24, 2010, 10:14:13 AM
ok, this is what I was thinking, and DON'T LAUGH AT ME!! lol.

The Alt-Oceanic 815 was separated from the island by water because where they are is separate from earth... like a metaphor for the barrier between this world and the next... ?
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: Maxor127 on May 24, 2010, 10:23:29 AM
Yeah, the island being underwater is bugging me too.  I can't buy into them engineering a reality where the island sunk when they could've just engineered one where the island didn't exist at all.  I feel they should've done something more symbolic and meaningful with that.  Like having the island rise up from the water at the very end and they all step into the light and are back on the island to live out their lives in paradise.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: lostfan777 on May 24, 2010, 12:42:29 PM
I think they wanted us to decide for ourselves what alot of things meant (Better than having to give us answers that some of us won't like, I guess).  My feeling was that the ATL was a type of purgatory, not good or bad, not Heaven or Hell, just a stopping point on the way to moving on.  In their 'imagined' lives while they waited, there was an island, a Dharma (Ben and his father were there and we saw the remains underwater), but at some point the light went out and the island sank.  It doesn't change things for the characters because this life isn't real.  There is no light in their lives here.  They will find the light and the love they seek when they are ready to come together and let go.  The island has no power over them anymore.  That's my interpretation.

The genius of the finale is that I can be right and someone who has a completely different take on it can also be right in their minds.  They left it open for interpretation without just fading to black like the Sopranos.  They showed us everything, they just didn't explain it all.  The only ones who should be disappointed are the fans who wanted the show to go in a different direction completely.  I also would have enjoyed it if they had made Dharma the antagonists instead of introducing the MIB as the central nemesis.  I liked the sci-fi of the show too, but I'm left satisfied that Dharma was just a period in time for the island.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: Caitlin on May 24, 2010, 12:50:06 PM
I think they wanted us to decide for ourselves what alot of things meant (Better than having to give us answers that some of us won't like, I guess).  My feeling was that the ATL was a type of purgatory, not good or bad, not Heaven or Hell, just a stopping point on the way to moving on.  In their 'imagined' lives while they waited, there was an island, a Dharma (Ben and his father were there and we saw the remains underwater), but at some point the light went out and the island sank.  It doesn't change things for the characters because this life isn't real.  There is no light in their lives here.  They will find the light and the love they seek when they are ready to come together and let go.  The island has no power over them anymore.  That's my interpretation.

The genius of the finale is that I can be right and someone who has a completely different take on it can also be right in their minds.  They left it open for interpretation without just fading to black like the Sopranos.  They showed us everything, they just didn't explain it all.  The only ones who should be disappointed are the fans who wanted the show to go in a different direction completely.  I also would have enjoyed it if they had made Dharma the antagonists instead of introducing the MIB as the central nemesis.  I liked the sci-fi of the show too, but I'm left satisfied that Dharma was just a period in time for the island.

Lostfan777--you worded this perfectly.  This is exactly how I took the finale to be as well. :)
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: vickilynn on May 24, 2010, 12:52:41 PM
ok, this is what I was thinking, and DON'T LAUGH AT ME!! lol.

The Alt-Oceanic 815 was separated from the island by water because where they are is separate from earth... like a metaphor for the barrier between this world and the next... ?
Insightful metaphor!
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 24, 2010, 12:55:19 PM
As Juilet said, "It worked"  The bomb worked.  At least it did in the Sideways...  The Sideways was a make-believe world, as if the bomb sunk the island in 1977. Thus preventing the plane from crashing in 2004.  But just like David never really existed :(  The island never really sunk...
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: lostlady on May 24, 2010, 12:56:44 PM
As Juilet said, "It worked"  The bomb worked.  At least it did in the Sideways...  The Sideways was a make-believe world, as if the bomb sunk the island in 1977. Thus preventing the plane from crashing in 2004.  But just like David never really existed :(  The island never really sunk...

Oh wow! So easily stated and a sensible explaination --thank you.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: WhatThe on May 24, 2010, 12:58:27 PM
The "Flash Sideways timeline" was the eternal meeting place. They'd decided that it was the crash that brought them together so they engineered a reality whereby the island sunk, thereby explaining the flight not crashing, Desmond not being on it etc etc. Retrospectively, I would suggest that the bomb didn't sink it. That just caused The Incident and nothing more.

I thought the "incident" was caused by not pushing the button, and that's why it was emphasized in the training video to be so diligent?
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: BurkRoyer on May 24, 2010, 01:03:19 PM
The "Flash Sideways timeline" was the eternal meeting place. They'd decided that it was the crash that brought them together so they engineered a reality whereby the island sunk, thereby explaining the flight not crashing, Desmond not being on it etc etc. Retrospectively, I would suggest that the bomb didn't sink it. That just caused The Incident and nothing more.

I thought the "incident" was caused by not pushing the button, and that's why it was emphasized in the training video to be so diligent?

Agree to some extent.  It was the electromagnetic anomaly that was the incident.  And that is what pushing the button prevented...  At least that is what Dr Chang thought...
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: vickilynn on May 24, 2010, 01:06:48 PM
Of course, the island DID move when Ben turned the donkey wheel...
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: opgelost on May 24, 2010, 01:11:41 PM
I think they wanted us to decide for ourselves what alot of things meant (Better than having to give us answers that some of us won't like, I guess).  My feeling was that the ATL was a type of purgatory, not good or bad, not Heaven or Hell, just a stopping point on the way to moving on.  In their 'imagined' lives while they waited, there was an island, a Dharma (Ben and his father were there and we saw the remains underwater), but at some point the light went out and the island sank.  It doesn't change things for the characters because this life isn't real.  There is no light in their lives here.  They will find the light and the love they seek when they are ready to come together and let go.  The island has no power over them anymore.  That's my interpretation.

The genius of the finale is that I can be right and someone who has a completely different take on it can also be right in their minds.  They left it open for interpretation without just fading to black like the Sopranos.  They showed us everything, they just didn't explain it all.  The only ones who should be disappointed are the fans who wanted the show to go in a different direction completely.  I also would have enjoyed it if they had made Dharma the antagonists instead of introducing the MIB as the central nemesis.  I liked the sci-fi of the show too, but I'm left satisfied that Dharma was just a period in time for the island.

They made a beautiful finale. Even we can finally agree, mr. Lostfan.  ;)
In my head they created a life for themselves where they could do things over in a way they wanted things to be and be better people. And when they accomplished it they were ready to let go and could move on.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: lostfan777 on May 24, 2010, 04:20:45 PM
I think they wanted us to decide for ourselves what alot of things meant (Better than having to give us answers that some of us won't like, I guess).  My feeling was that the ATL was a type of purgatory, not good or bad, not Heaven or Hell, just a stopping point on the way to moving on.  In their 'imagined' lives while they waited, there was an island, a Dharma (Ben and his father were there and we saw the remains underwater), but at some point the light went out and the island sank.  It doesn't change things for the characters because this life isn't real.  There is no light in their lives here.  They will find the light and the love they seek when they are ready to come together and let go.  The island has no power over them anymore.  That's my interpretation.

The genius of the finale is that I can be right and someone who has a completely different take on it can also be right in their minds.  They left it open for interpretation without just fading to black like the Sopranos.  They showed us everything, they just didn't explain it all.  The only ones who should be disappointed are the fans who wanted the show to go in a different direction completely.  I also would have enjoyed it if they had made Dharma the antagonists instead of introducing the MIB as the central nemesis.  I liked the sci-fi of the show too, but I'm left satisfied that Dharma was just a period in time for the island.

They made a beautiful finale. Even we can finally agree, mr. Lostfan.  ;)
In my head they created a life for themselves where they could do things over in a way they wanted things to be and be better people. And when they accomplished it they were ready to let go and could move on.


Thank you and I will gladly shake your virtual hand!  Of course, MIB was still evil!!!!   ;D  Just kidding!  In fact, I think I've decided that he wasn't evil after all.  I think that the evil that would have spread had he escaped would have been from mankind itself without a little of the light in every heart.  I don't think he even knew what the consequences of his actions would have been had he destroyed the island.  He may have really believed it was just an island.

Thanks for all the heated debates, Opie!   ;)
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 04:24:00 PM

They made a beautiful finale. Even we can finally agree, mr. Lostfan.  ;)
In my head they created a life for themselves where they could do things over in a way they wanted things to be and be better people. And when they accomplished it they were ready to let go and could move on.


Thank you and I will gladly shake your virtual hand!  Of course, MIB was still evil!!!!   ;D  Just kidding!  In fact, I think I've decided that he wasn't evil after all.  I think that the evil that would have spread had he escaped would have been from mankind itself without a little of the light in every heart.  I don't think he even knew what the consequences of his actions would have been had he destroyed the island.  He may have really believed it was just an island.

Thanks for all the heated debates, Opie!   ;)

Woah. This is weird. I am in agreement here too.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: Creflo on May 24, 2010, 04:33:33 PM
I believe that The Island is shown at the bottom of the ocean so that the viewer can understand that it did exist up until the 70's (because you can see DHARMA hardware).

That way we realize that the Linus family was there and everything else prior to The Incident was roughly equivalent.  I think we're supposed to assume that the bomb sunk it, but the cause is really irrelevant.  Just know that it existed at some point in the ATL prior to 815 landing safely.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 04:58:40 PM
Well that's in the ALT, so my assumption is that in the collective reality there the Losties put the Island at the bottom of the ocean so they could all land safely.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: Desmond8MyPopRocks on May 24, 2010, 05:10:40 PM
In the end, it was all bullsh!t, plain and simple.  Jack was a coward who died a lonely coward's death.  I guess he didn't Live Together" with anyone, so he died alone--except for Vincent, who you know went Donner Party after about 10 hours of staring at Dead Jack.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: lostlady on May 24, 2010, 05:16:17 PM
In the end, it was all bullsh!t, plain and simple.  Jack was a coward who died a lonely coward's death.  I guess he didn't Live Together" with anyone, so he died alone--except for Vincent, who you know went Donner Party after about 10 hours of staring at Dead Jack.

So sorry for you.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: I_Am_Jacob on May 24, 2010, 05:20:18 PM
In the end, it was all bullsh!t, plain and simple.  Jack was a coward who died a lonely coward's death.  I guess he didn't Live Together" with anyone, so he died alone--except for Vincent, who you know went Donner Party after about 10 hours of staring at Dead Jack.

 You are delusional if you truly believe that. Maybe you were watching a different show. Jack saved the world....twice. Sacrificing himself in order to do it. I really hope you are just trolling now, because you are really just wrong again. Like your "ABC pulled the plug" comment. Epic Fail on your part. Plain and Simple.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: relient k on May 24, 2010, 05:39:59 PM
The bomb went off, killed the Candidates, therefore Jacob's replacements were gone, the light unprotected, and smokey got to it, putting it out and sinking the island.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: CaseyMac on May 24, 2010, 06:03:19 PM
In the end, it was all bullsh!t, plain and simple.  Jack was a coward who died a lonely coward's death.  I guess he didn't Live Together" with anyone, so he died alone--except for Vincent, who you know went Donner Party after about 10 hours of staring at Dead Jack.

 You are delusional if you truly believe that. Maybe you were watching a different show. Jack saved the world....twice. Sacrificing himself in order to do it. I really hope you are just trolling now, because you are really just wrong again. Like your "ABC pulled the plug" comment. Epic Fail on your part. Plain and Simple.

Yeah, it's like that stupid Romeo & Juliet story. The writer has us thinking it was going to be a beautiful love story and everybody just died in the end because he couldn't figure out how to end it. Pure BS
Or that dumb Citizen Kane movie where we are trying to find out the mystery of what "Rosebud" is and it was just a dumb sled the whole time. Pure crap.
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: lostlady on May 24, 2010, 06:06:40 PM
In the end, it was all bullsh!t, plain and simple.  Jack was a coward who died a lonely coward's death.  I guess he didn't Live Together" with anyone, so he died alone--except for Vincent, who you know went Donner Party after about 10 hours of staring at Dead Jack.

 You are delusional if you truly believe that. Maybe you were watching a different show. Jack saved the world....twice. Sacrificing himself in order to do it. I really hope you are just trolling now, because you are really just wrong again. Like your "ABC pulled the plug" comment. Epic Fail on your part. Plain and Simple.

Yeah, it's like that stupid Romeo & Juliet story. The writer has us thinking it was going to be a beautiful love story and everybody just died in the end because he couldn't figure out how to end it. Pure BS
Or that dumb Citizen Kane movie where we are trying to find out the mystery of what "Rosebud" is and it was just a dumb sled the whole time. Pure crap.

LOL good answer, Casey!  :)
Title: Re: Why was the island underwater in the Alt.?
Post by: opgelost on May 25, 2010, 02:03:11 PM

Thank you and I will gladly shake your virtual hand!  Of course, MIB was still evil!!!!   ;D  Just kidding!  In fact, I think I've decided that he wasn't evil after all.  I think that the evil that would have spread had he escaped would have been from mankind itself without a little of the light in every heart.  I don't think he even knew what the consequences of his actions would have been had he destroyed the island.  He may have really believed it was just an island.

Thanks for all the heated debates, Opie!   ;)

Thanks to you too. I am happy he was able to die. I think it is a good end for him. Wouldn't have liked it if he had to stay on the island for eternity trying to leave with new protectors to keep him there over and over again. I still don't think he was incarnated evil, because evil can not die. Jacob was not evil, just another victim. They never were God and devil, just human and both forced into a role they didn't want to play with their own conflict and problems. Like all the people in Lost.